Matthew 28:19 – Trinity corrupted verse

[Illuminator]

I am very familiar with that and your attempt at comparison relative to the subject is non sequitur.

Why? Because "ONE" in Hebrew (Echod) disagrees with your opinions? If you are going to run from my questions then this is not a discussion.

In Genesis it clearly says "us' and Jesus later identifies at the "word' with God and was God (in His own standing). That means they were both there and nobody disputes that.

You create a flowery non statement then pass it off as a legitimate point. You draw conclusions the references you quote simply dont state.

No, I draw a brief exegesis of the text; I am not the one drawing conclusions borrowed from quasi-christian sects that you keep in the dark.

Your sloppiness is showing as is your pseudo scientific knowledge. Sadly, in this day and age thats also very familiar too.

"pseudo scientific knowledge"??? Where??? Quote me and avoid stupid insults like this one.

If my exegesis is incorrect, why don't you offer a correct one instead of just complaining about mine?

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

Why? Because "ONE" in Hebrew (Echod) disagrees with your opinions?

No, because I didn't take your out-of-context bait and called you on it

No, I draw a brief exegesis of the text, I am not the one drawing conclusions borrowed from quasi-christian sects that re-write history.

No, you quote from dogma and like using impressive sounding words and very selectively avoiding a direct contradiction that even you know you will lose.

"pseudo scientific knowledge"??? Where???
If my exegesis is incorrect, why don't you offer a correct one instead of just complaining?

I pointed one out so why don't you provide a complete verse without all your drama that you think proves the trinity point and lets both see.

 

[Illuminator]

I. The Holy Spirit is God
Job 33:4 – “The Spirit of God made me and the breath of the Almighty has given me life.” Only God is the creator of life.

Matt. 12:31; Luke 12:10 – Jesus says blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. Only God can be blasphemed.

John 4:24 – God is a spirit (the Holy Spirit) and they who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth. Only God is worshiped.

John 14:16,26; 15:26; 16:7 – the Father and the Son send the Counselor, the Holy Spirit – Isaiah 9:6 – the Counselor is Mighty God.

Acts 5:3-4,9 – Peter tells Ananias that he lied to the Holy Spirit, and that he has not lied to men, but to God (the Holy Spirit).

Acts 28:25-27 – the Holy Spirit said “Go to this people and say…” – Isaiah 6:8-10 – the Lord said “Go to this people and say…”

1 Cor. 2:10 – the Spirit searches everything – Jer. 17:10 – the Lord searches the heart.

1 Cor. 3:16 – you are the temple of God – 1 Cor. 6:19 – you are the temple of the Holy Spirit.

1 Cor. 12:4-6 – there are varieties of gifts but the same Spirit, varieties of service but the same Lord, varieties of working but same God.

2 Cor. 3:6,17 – we are ministers of the covenant in the Spirit which gives life. Now the Lord (God) is the Spirit.

Heb. 10:16 – the Holy Spirit said this is the covenant I will make –
Jer. 31:33 – the Lord said this is the covenant I will make.

1 Peter 1:2 – we are sanctified by the Holy Spirit –
1 Thess. 5:23 – the very God of peace sanctifies you wholly.

“But if there is such co-ordination and unity within the holy Triad, who can separate either the Son from the Father, or the Spirit from the Son or from the Father himself? Who would be so audacious as to say that the Triad is unlike itself and diverse in nature, or that the Son is in essence foreign from the Father, or the Spirit alien from the Son?…For as the Son, who is in the Father and the Father in him, is not a creature but pertains to the essence of the Father (for this you also profess to say); so also it is not lawful to rank with the creatures the Spirit who is in the Son, and the Son in him, nor to divide him from the Word and reduce the Triad to imperfection.”
Athanasius, Letter to Serapion of Thmuis, 1:20-21 (A.D. 360).

Athanasius was not a heretic.

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

“The Spirit of God made me and the breath of the Almighty has given me life.” Only God is the creator of life.

The first one is easily refuted. The spirit of God (rooakh H7307) is NOT the "holy Spirit" ( as a different entity) with one of the context uses simply as "mind" as opposed to the "breath" (neshawmah H5397) which is Gods divine inspiration.

A better stating of that would be Gods mind made me and his energy made me alive. That's a singularity with no allusion whatsoever to a trinity of anything.

The rest is just a series of very basic mistranslated and/or misinterpreted scripture and other errors sprinkled by your own conclusions the referenced scriptures simply do not support.

This certainly didn't take long for you to run out of gas.

 

[Mungo]

per·son
/ˈpərs(ə)n/

noun

1. a human being regarded as an individual.

Person

A person is a being that has certain capacities or attributes such as reason, morality, consciousness or self-consciousness, and being a part of a culturally established form of social relations such as kinship, ownership of property, or legal responsibility. Wikipedia
person definition - Google Search

The above is related to humans. Humans are 1:1 person to being.
The Trinity is about the God not human beings

Since you quote from Wikipedia you should consider this:
The Christian doctrine of the Trinity (Latin: Trinitas, lit. 'triad', from Latin: trinus "threefold")[1] holds that God is one God, and exists in the form of three coeternal and consubstantial persons:[2][3] the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit. The three persons are distinct, yet are one "substance, essence or nature" (homoousios).[4] In this context, a "nature" is what one is, whereas a "person" is who one is.[5]

Moreover if you look further down the article you link to you will find
Development of the concept

In ancient Rome, the word persona (Latin) or prosopon (πρόσωπον; Greek) originally referred to the masks worn by actors on stage. The various masks represented the various "personae" in the stage play.[11]

The concept of person was further developed during the Trinitarian and Christological debates of the 4th and 5th centuries in contrast to the word nature.[12] During the theological debates, some philosophical tools (concepts) were needed so that the debates could be held on common basis to all theological schools. The purpose of the debate was to establish the relation, similarities and differences between the Ancient Greek: Λóγος, romanized: Lógos/Verbum and God. The philosophical concept of person arose, taking the word "prosopon" (Ancient Greek: πρόσωπον, romanized: prósōpon) from the Greek theatre. Therefore, Christ (the Ancient Greek: Λóγος, romanized: Lógos/Verbum) and God were defined as different "persons". This concept was applied later to the Holy Ghost, the angels and to all human beings.

Trinitarian definition of the trinity:
3 separate distinct(different) beings(persons) that are all one

See, Mungo? ...

... even YOU don't agree with this!

Why? Because it's ridiculous.

You give no source for this.

 

[Marymog]

Was busy the past few days, anyway....

ANSWER: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.....
He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.
But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God -
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Thank you. Let’s try again:

Using Scripture alone can you tell me how many books are supposed to be in the Bible you quote from?

 

[GEN2REV]

Since you quote from Wikipedia you should consider this:
... The three persons are distinct, yet are one "substance, essence or nature" (homoousios).[4] In this context, a "nature" is what one is, whereas a "person" is who one is.[5]

Trinitarian definition of the trinity:
3 separate distinct(different) beings(persons) that are all one

You give no source for this.

 

[Mungo]

????

 

[Illuminator]

The first one is easily refuted. The spirit of God (rooakh H7307) is NOT the "holy Spirit" ( as a different entity) with one of the context uses simply as "mind" as opposed to the "breath" (neshawmah H5397) which is Gods divine inspiration.

So Job is wrong?

A better stating of that would be Gods mind made me and his energy made me alive. That's a singularity with no allusion whatsoever to a trinity of anything.

Gods mind made me and his energy made me is 2 entities. That makes no sense. God is ONE, remember?

The rest is just a series of very basic mistranslated and/or misinterpreted scripture and other errors sprinkled by your own conclusions the referenced scriptures simply do not support.

I gave a citation followed by a BRIEF exegesis of the text that is easy to understand, not a theological treatise.

This certainly didn't take long for you to run out of gas.

Job 33:4 – “The Spirit of God made me and the breath of the Almighty has given me life.” Only God is the creator of life.
Take it up with Job. I said "Only God is the creator of life." and no amount of translation juggling or word games can change that fact.

Scroll up to post #583. Was Athanasius a heretic?

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

So Job is wrong?

No, only your understanding of it

Gods mind made me and his energy made me is 2 entities. That makes no sense. God is ONE, remember?

That's weak ( even for you). Its no different than any craftsman "thinking up something" then building it. Not 2 entities at all.

Scroll up to post #583. Was Athanasius a heretic?

Never met him nor do I consider him an authority so what he believes carries no more weight than anyone else's opinion

 

[charity]

Matthew 28 (WEB):

My suspicions were mainly based on the fact that his disciples didn’t obey that command.

'And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying,
All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations,
baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
and, lo, I am with you alway,
even unto the end of the world.
Amen.'
(Mat 28:18-20)

Hello @keithr,

With respect, I believe that these words are yet to be accomplished, in the day that Matthew 14:14 will also be fulfilled:-

'And this gospel of the kingdom
shall be preached in all the world
for a witness unto all nations;
and then shall the end come.'
(Mat 24:14)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[keithr]

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations,
baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:

Hello @keithr,

With respect, I believe that these words are yet to be accomplished, in the day that Matthew 24:14 will also be fulfilled:-

'And this gospel of the kingdom
shall be preached in all the world
for a witness unto all nations;
and then shall the end come.'
(Mat 24:14)

Also with respect, I don't see the connection. Mat. 24:14 doesn't say anything about teaching and baptising people, it just says that the good news about the Kingdom will be proclaimed in all nations as a witness to all the nations. I don't believe that Jesus would tell his disciples to "Go and make disciples of all nations, teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you” if he didn't intend that to happen until just before "the end shall come" - around 2,000 years later. In any case, he never said to baptise people in the name of 'name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost', as was my point in post #1 (which was a "brief summary" of the information that I found that proved Mat. 28:19 is corrupted verse).

 

[Curtis]

SHORT POP QUIZ:

1. Who created the heavens and the earth in Genesis 1?

___________.

2. Who created the world and every single thing made without exception in John 1:10,14 and in Colossians 1:16?

______________.

 

[Illuminator]

Never met him nor do I consider him an authority so what he believes carries no more weight than anyone else's opinion

None of the made-in-America cults accept the authority of the Council of Nicae or Athanasius either. Athanasius refuted the Arian heresy so are you an Arian?

 

[charity]

1. Who created the heavens and the earth in Genesis 1?
2.. Who created the world and every single thing made without exception in John 1:10,14 and in Colossians 1:16?

'In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by Him;
and without Him was not any thing made that was made.'
(John 1:1-3)

'And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
(and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,)
full of grace and truth.'
(John 1:14)

'Giving thanks unto the Father,
.. which hath made us meet to be partakers
.... of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness,
.. and hath translated us into the kingdom of His dear Son:
.... In whom we have redemption through His blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
...... Who is the image of the invisible God,
........ the firstborn of every creature:
For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth,
.. visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers:
.... all things were created by Him, and for Him:
...... And He is before all things, and by Him all things consist.
And He is the head of the body, the church:
.. Who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead;
.... that in all things He might have the preeminence.
...... For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; ... '
(Col 1:12-19)

'Looking for that blessed hope,
and the glorious appearing
of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;'
(Tit 2:13)

Thank you @Curtis
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

None of the made-in-America cults accept the authority of the Council of Nicae or Athanasius either. Athanasius refuted the Arian heresy so are you an Arian?

No, but that begs the question.
What cult's doctrines do you adhere to?

 

[Illuminator]

No, but that begs the question.
What cult's doctrines do you adhere to?

The Catholic members in here don't keep it a secret, and we are not a cult.
You are either on your own, with allegiance to only your opinion, or you are a Jehovah's Witness or one of their factions. But I am guessing. You have no respect for St. Athanasius, don't know his significance at the Council of Nicae, (which, I am guessing, you also reject) and you probably reject the Nicene Creed. Do you have any sources for your private version of apologetics or is that a secret too? One more guess: you stand alone, a pope in a church with one member: you. So you come to a Christian forum looking for a fight because you have deep seated authority issues.

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

The Catholic members in here don't keep it a secret, and we are not a cult.
You are either on your own, with allegiance to only your opinion, or you are a Jehovah's Witness or one of their factions. But I am guessing. You have no respect for St. Athanasius, don't know his significance at the Council of Nicae, (which, I am guessing, you also reject) and you probably reject the Nicene Creed. Do you have any sources for your private version of apologetics or is that a secret too? One more guess: you stand alone, a pope in a church with one member: you. So you come to a Christian forum looking for a fight because you have deep seated authority issues.

That answered everything and "cult" status of the RCC is debatable at best. I recognize the dogma and error you spout and probably know as much or more about your own false premise as you do. I also see that arrogance born of a feeling of superiority which is also false in reality.

Instead of worrying about my ability, you would do better defending your "doctrines" from legitimate correction as has been going on so far.

 

[Illuminator]

That answered everything and "cult" status of the RCC is debatable at best.

The verdicts of the Council of Nicae ruled against the Arian heresy, and is accepted by Catholics, Orthodox and most Protestants, so most of Christianity has debatable cult status except you. Interesting.

I recognize the dogma and error you spout and probably know as much or more about your own false premise as you do. I also see that arrogance born of a feeling of superiority which is also false in reality.

Instead of worrying about my ability, you would do better defending your "doctrines" from legitimate correction as has been going on so far.

You have your own definition of "doctrines" that has nothing to do with the CC. A claim made by a 14th century Jew over a document that no one has seen is not a legitimate correction. An original Hebrew manuscript doesn't exist. There are no original manuscripts for any book of the Bible, they are all extant copies.

You haven't identified by whose authority you deem "legitimate" other than your own. If that makes you feel inferior, or superior, see a counsellor.

Your insults are stupid and childish, a waste of screen space. Good bye.

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

You haven't identified by whose authority you deem "legitimate" other than your own. If that makes you feel inferior, or superior, see a counsellor.

Your insults are stupid and childish, a waste of screen space. Good bye.

run Forrest run. I suppose any excuse to protect such weak arguments will do when its all you have.

They even have a Proverb on that (28:1 to be exact) The wicked flee when no man pursueth, but the righteous are bold as a lion.

So run along and hide