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Mental Illness due to Demonic Possession

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Wakka, Dec 2, 2007.

  1. ami

    ami New Member

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    (Peacebewithyou;27428)
    Ami,I am born again also. I am also Catholic. How do you know that the Orthodox people are worshiping Mary and images? Have they told you who they worship? Unless you can read their minds or their hearts, you have no idea what they are doing. "...for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart." 1Sam16:7We worship God alone. Anyone who worships anyone BUT God is doing something both the Catholic and Orthodox Chruch are against. I have NEVER known of a Catholic who worshipped anyone but God. What is wrong with naming a Church after St. Peter? Or Saint Paul? Do you think that because it's named after those holy men, the people inside are worshiping those men? That's just silly. We have Protestant Chruches in my town named Church of the Vine and Church on the Rock. Do you believe those people are worshiping rocks & vines? You've said that you've seen so many Orthodox people do this & that in their churches. Do you often hang out in Churches where you aren't a member? I don't think so.I think you're making this up based on what you've "heard." You are basically spreading gossip - and that's not nice. :naughty:
    Dear peacebewithyou,Well, I don’t have any problem going to churches and worship God as long as the word of God is preached according to the word and the practices are according to the bible. But I can tell you one thing I was living with the orthodox people. I had orthodox friends. I went to their church few times invited and sever times for a funeral ceremony- that is whenever an Orthodox member dies in the neighbourhood. I have seen it with my own eyes and I am not making this up.Once my friend and I went for a funeral in St. John Church. It is an Orthodox Church. I saw a statue of Marry inside and people were kneeling down in front of Marry’s statue and praying. I asked my Orthodox friend why would they do that and told him that was not right and he agreed. That was his church.The problem with the naming of these churches as St. Paul or St. John is that people are kneeling down and praying to them. People going to St. Paul or St. John or Marry's Church pray for Paul or John or Marry. That is what is happening now in the Orthodox chrches. That is not right. Well,Vine and Rock are symbolic i think they both refer to Jesus. But if they don't then they are wrong. I am not speaking for the protestant churches or Chatholic Churches or anyother church. All i am saying is it just matters whom we are worshiping and whom we are giving praise. God will never give his Glory to anyone. He said himself that he is a Jealous God. He doesn’t want us to worship others who are his creatures. God Bless,Ami
     
  2. Peacebewithyou

    Peacebewithyou New Member

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    (ami;27649)
    Dear peacebewithyou,Well, I don’t have any problem going to churches and worship God as long as the word of God is preached according to the word and the practices are according to the bible. But I can tell you one thing I was living with the orthodox people. I had orthodox friends. I went to their church few times invited and sever times for a funeral ceremony- that is whenever an Orthodox member dies in the neighbourhood. I have seen it with my own eyes and I am not making this up.Once my friend and I went for a funeral in St. John Church. It is an Orthodox Church. I saw a statue of Marry inside and people were kneeling down in front of Marry’s statue and praying. I asked my Orthodox friend why would they do that and told him that was not right and he agreed. That was his church.The problem with the naming of these churches as St. Paul or St. John is that people are kneeling down and praying to them. People going to St. Paul or St. John or Marry's Church pray for Paul or John or Marry. That is what is happening now in the Orthodox chrches. That is not right. Well,Vine and Rock are symbolic i think they both refer to Jesus. But if they don't then they are wrong. I am not speaking for the protestant churches or Chatholic Churches or anyother church. All i am saying is it just matters whom we are worshiping and whom we are giving praise. God will never give his Glory to anyone. He said himself that he is a Jealous God. He doesn’t want us to worship others who are his creatures. God Bless,Ami
    Hi Ami,You are so right, all worship should be directed toward God alone. The Catholic & Orthodox Church both believe this 100%. People who pray to the Saints are not "worshiping them" - they are just asking them to pray to God on their behalf. You are probably wondering why they wouldn't just pray to God themselves? Well of course, I'm certain they do - but you'd have to agree that it's also OK to ask others to pray for you as well? Besides, the Bible says this: 1 Peter 3:12 12For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil. None are more righteous than those who've received their heavenly reward. The Bible also speaks of the Saints offering prayers to God: "[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" (Rev. 8:3-4). And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. 4And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.At any rate, when you see someone kneeling in front of a statue and praying, you really have no idea to whom they are praying. You cannot read what is in their heart so you shouldn't judge them by thinking "oh that is wrong."
     
  3. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (Peacebewithyou;27662)
    (ami;27649)
    Dear peacebewithyou,Well, I don’t have any problem going to churches and worship God as long as the word of God is preached according to the word and the practices are according to the bible. But I can tell you one thing I was living with the orthodox people. I had orthodox friends. I went to their church few times invited and sever times for a funeral ceremony- that is whenever an Orthodox member dies in the neighbourhood. I have seen it with my own eyes and I am not making this up.Once my friend and I went for a funeral in St. John Church. It is an Orthodox Church. I saw a statue of Marry inside and people were kneeling down in front of Marry’s statue and praying. I asked my Orthodox friend why would they do that and told him that was not right and he agreed. That was his church.The problem with the naming of these churches as St. Paul or St. John is that people are kneeling down and praying to them. People going to St. Paul or St. John or Marry's Church pray for Paul or John or Marry. That is what is happening now in the Orthodox chrches. That is not right.Well,Vine and Rock are symbolic i think they both refer to Jesus. But if they don't then they are wrong. I am not speaking for the protestant churches or Chatholic Churches or anyother church. All i am saying is it just matters whom we are worshiping and whom we are giving praise.God will never give his Glory to anyone. He said himself that he is a Jealous God. He doesn’t want us to worship others who are his creatures.God Bless,Ami
    Hi Ami,You are so right, all worship should be directed toward God alone. The Catholic & Orthodox Church both believe this 100%.People who pray to the Saints are not "worshiping them" - they are just asking them to pray to God on their behalf. You are probably wondering why they wouldn't just pray to God themselves? Well of course, I'm certain they do - but you'd have to agree that it's also OK to ask others to pray for you as well? Besides, the Bible says this:1 Peter 3:1212For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.None are more righteous than those who've received their heavenly reward.The Bible also speaks of the Saints offering prayers to God:"[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" (Rev. 8:3-4).And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.4And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.At any rate, when you see someone kneeling in front of a statue and praying, you really have no idea to whom they are praying. You cannot read what is in their heart so you shouldn't judge them by thinking "oh that is wrong."I see confusions going around here. A statue of some person like Paul, Mary etc. can not hear prayers, for it was made by a human, and it becomes an idol, when they ask a thing to pray for them. Also note, a dead person can not hear prayers as well.For it better to pray to Christ directly, for He is living, than go to a dead person who can not hear you.Yes it's good to have others pray for you, but not to a statue, (which was made by a human) or a dead person who will never exist again in their flesh and blood bodies.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
     
  4. Unorthodox Christian

    Unorthodox Christian New Member

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    AMEN JAG!Isaiah 44:9-28-THEY THAT MAKE A GRAVEN IMAGE ARE ALL OF THEM VANITY; AND THEIR DELECTABLE THINGS SHALL NOT PROFIT; AND THEY ARE THEIR OWN WITNESSES; THEY SEE NOT, NOR KNOW; THAT THEY MAY BE ASHAMED.10-WHO HATH FORMED A GOD, OR MOLTEN A GRAVEN IMAGE THAT IS PROFITABLE FOR NOTHING?Revelation 9:20 20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
     
  5. Peacebewithyou

    Peacebewithyou New Member

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    (Unorthodox Christian;27677)
    AMEN JAG!Isaiah 44:9-28-THEY THAT MAKE A GRAVEN IMAGE ARE ALL OF THEM VANITY; AND THEIR DELECTABLE THINGS SHALL NOT PROFIT; AND THEY ARE THEIR OWN WITNESSES; THEY SEE NOT, NOR KNOW; THAT THEY MAY BE ASHAMED.10-WHO HATH FORMED A GOD, OR MOLTEN A GRAVEN IMAGE THAT IS PROFITABLE FOR NOTHING?Revelation 9:20 20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
    OHMYGOODNESS! It has just occured to me that you guys think that the people praying in front of the statues believe that the STATUES themselves are somehow real or able to hear prayers?? :eek: Of course not - they are nothing but stone or whatever. Catholics no more believe that a statue or a picture of a Saint has any "power" or signifigace anymore than you think a picture of your mother is actaully your mother (rather than just a picture). Of course we are not to bow down or worship statues or any other graven image. It's one of the 10 Commandments. So before you going thinking that Catholics are totally "idol worshippers" let me assure you that Catholics do not believe that statues are anything BUT statues. Not God - not god-like - not anything, other than a reminder of the person (like a picture of your mom). We do not worship "statues." (that actually makes me sort of chuckle because honestly, it is so off base.) It would be sort of like saying you worship paper because you love the Bible. Just dumb, wouldn't you agree? So now that we've got that straight, we do pray to Saints because we believe that haven't "died" but are as alive as you & me are, only they are in heaven. They are our brothers & sisters who pray to God for us.
     
  6. Peacebewithyou

    Peacebewithyou New Member

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    (thesuperjag;27663)
    I see confusions going around here. A statue of some person like Paul, Mary etc. can not hear prayers, for it was made by a human, and it becomes an idol, when they ask a thing to pray for them. Also note, a dead person can not hear prayers as well.For it better to pray to Christ directly, for He is living, than go to a dead person who can not hear you.Yes it's good to have others pray for you, but not to a statue, (which was made by a human) or a dead person who will never exist again in their flesh and blood bodies.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
    Yes, I agree with you 100%. One should NEVER ask a statue for anything. :naughty:
     
  7. Unorthodox Christian

    Unorthodox Christian New Member

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    (Peacebewithyou;27679)
    OHMYGOODNESS! It has just occured to me that you guys think that the people praying in front of the statues believe that the STATUES themselves are somehow real or able to hear prayers?? :eek: Of course not - they are nothing but stone or whatever. Catholics no more believe that a statue or a picture of a Saint has any "power" or signifigace anymore than you think a picture of your mother is actaully your mother (rather than just a picture). Of course we are not to bow down or worship statues or any other graven image. It's one of the 10 Commandments. So before you going thinking that Catholics are totally "idol worshippers" let me assure you that Catholics do not believe that statues are anything BUT statues. Not God - not god-like - not anything, other than a reminder of the person (like a picture of your mom). We do not worship "statues." (that actually makes me sort of chuckle because honestly, it is so off base.) It would be sort of like saying you worship paper because you love the Bible. Just dumb, wouldn't you agree? So now that we've got that straight, we do pray to Saints because we believe that haven't "died" but are as alive as you & me are, only they are in heaven. They are our brothers & sisters who pray to God for us.
    yet you rely on Relics, Crucifixes which have no power, and Keep statues and Pictures of saints and Mary and Jesus for good luck.
     
  8. Peacebewithyou

    Peacebewithyou New Member

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    (thesuperjag;27663)
    . Also note, a dead person can not hear prayers as well.For it better to pray to Christ directly, for He is living, than go to a dead person who can not hear you.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
    The Saints in heaven aren't "dead" - they are alive. John 11: 26And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.
     
  9. Peacebewithyou

    Peacebewithyou New Member

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    (Unorthodox Christian;27681)
    yet you rely on Relics, Crucifixes which have no power, and Keep statues and Pictures of saints and Mary and Jesus for good luck.
    good luck? Are you kidding me? That's ridiculous. Crucifixes, statues and pictures have no power whatsoever. Didn't I make that clear? Or should I explain it to you again? Again, we keep a crucifix to remind us of Christ's sacrifice on the cross. When I look at the crucifix, I am thinking of Christ IN HEAVEN - not that specific piece of wood with metal on it. Just like when you look at a picture of your dear Mom, you are thinking of her - not the "picture" itself.And maybe seeing a picture of your mom makes you happy - so you keep it on your wall. But you don't "worship" it, right? And just because you have a picture on your wall, doesn't mean you don't ALSO love Christ, even more than you love your Mom. Same with pictures of Saints. Yes, it reminds us of those people, but it doesn't interfer with our love for Christ.
     
  10. Unorthodox Christian

    Unorthodox Christian New Member

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    I'm tired of Trying to REASON with a person who won't even see his Folly. I love you In Jesus Christ and that's all I will say. I'm happy you have Salvation because you Believe all that Christ was, but I won't even go further.
     
  11. Peacebewithyou

    Peacebewithyou New Member

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    (Unorthodox Christian;27684)
    .... but I won't even go further.
    promise? [​IMG]haha. Only kidding Unorthodox Christian! Hey, I love you as my brother as well, even though you sometimes make me want to bang my head.
     
  12. Unorthodox Christian

    Unorthodox Christian New Member

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    LoL, If you're a woman I would give you a hug, if you're a Brother, I would give you a handshake [​IMG].
     
  13. Peacebewithyou

    Peacebewithyou New Member

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    (Unorthodox Christian;27686)
    LoL, If you're a woman I would give you a hug, if you're a Brother, I would give you a handshake [​IMG].
    Then a ((hug)) it is!!! [​IMG]
     
  14. ami

    ami New Member

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    here is the meaning of worship worship (RELIGION) to have or show a strong feeling of respect and admiration for God or a god:Acts 10:25-26 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him. But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.Exod: 34:13-14 But ye shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves: For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:Rev 22:8-9And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.We are not allwed to bow, pray to or worship to the angles or saints if thy realy were here let alone to statues and Images. That is what the Saint and Angles said when ppl were bowing to them.God bless,Ami
     
  15. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (ami;27705)
    here is the meaning of worship worship (RELIGION) to have or show a strong feeling of respect and admiration for God or a god:Acts 10:25-26 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him. But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.Exod: 34:13-14 But ye shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves: For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:Rev 22:8-9And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.We are not allwed to bow, pray to or worship to the angles or saints if thy realy were here let alone to statues and Images. That is what the Saint and Angles said when ppl were bowing to them.God bless,Ami
    Amen Ami ! Well said.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
     
  16. Peacebewithyou

    Peacebewithyou New Member

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    (ami;27705)
    here is the meaning of worship worship (RELIGION) to have or show a strong feeling of respect and admiration for God or a god:Acts 10:25-26 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him. But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.Exod: 34:13-14 But ye shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves: For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:Rev 22:8-9And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.We are not allwed to bow, pray to or worship to the angles or saints if thy realy were here let alone to statues and Images. That is what the Saint and Angles said when ppl were bowing to them.God bless,Ami
    I agree - we should worship God alone. I think I've said that about five times in this thread alone. [​IMG]We pray to the Saints and ask them to pray for us - TO GOD. Just like you might ask your friend to pray for you. Same thing. And no, it's not talking to dead people because the Saints are very much alive in heaven. I think I posted the verses where it speaks of them praying in heaven. (Rev 5:8) If you believe this is wrong, please show me the verse in the bible where it says we should only pray to God. The verses you posted that I quoted speak of worship. Cornelius was going to "worship" Peter. That is wrong. ALL WORSHIP goes to God alone.
     
  17. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (Peacebewithyou;27709)
    I agree - we should worship God alone. I think I've said that about five times in this thread alone. [​IMG]We pray to the Saints and ask them to pray for us - TO GOD. Just like you might ask your friend to pray for you. Same thing. And no, it's not talking to dead people because the Saints are very much alive in heaven. I think I posted the verses where it speaks of them praying in heaven. (Rev 5:8) If you believe this is wrong, please show me the verse in the bible where it says we should only pray to God. The verses you posted that I quoted speak of worship. Cornelius was going to "worship" Peter. That is wrong. ALL WORSHIP goes to God alone.
    Matthew 6:9-13 - After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.Christ never said to pray to the saint and ask them to pray for us to God. Christ directly prayed to His Father. I'll stick with Christ's words over men anyday.JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
     
  18. Peacebewithyou

    Peacebewithyou New Member

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    (thesuperjag;27712)
    Matthew 6:9-13 - After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.Christ never said to pray to the saint and ask them to pray for us to God. Christ directly prayed to His Father. I'll stick with Christ's words over men anyday.JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
    Yes, I love that prayer. Catholics say it at every mass. But still, that doesn't mean that's the ONLY way to pray. Surely you don't only say that prayer, do you?
     
  19. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (Peacebewithyou;27713)
    (thesuperjag;27712)
    Matthew 6:9-13 - After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. Christ never said to pray to the saint and ask them to pray for us to God. Christ directly prayed to His Father. I'll stick with Christ's words over men anyday. Jag Lovest ye in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
    Yes, I love that prayer. Catholics say it at every mass. But still, that doesn't mean that's the ONLY way to pray. Surely you don't only say that prayer, do you?You ain't getting the point. Christ only prayed to His Father directly. He didn't go to a person who's dead and ask them to pray with Him to His Father.He didn't go to a "saint" who can't hear Him to ask to pray with Him to Him that sent Him.JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world. P.S. I rather pray to Christ directly as Christ did.
     
  20. Peacebewithyou

    Peacebewithyou New Member

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    (thesuperjag;27716)
    You ain't getting the point. Christ only prayed to His Father directly. He didn't go to a person who's dead and ask them to pray with Him to His Father.He didn't go to a "saint" who can't hear Him to ask to pray with Him to Him that sent Him.JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world. P.S. I rather pray to Christ directly as Christ did.
    Well of course he didn't - there weren't any Saints in heaven prior to His Ressurection. Christ didn't pray to Christ. That is just silly. Why would he talk to himself? He prayed to God the Father.
     
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