Mind of the Spirit / Mind of the Flesh

[mark s]

Hi Jake,

We may be talking different things. Do you think we can reach a state while in these bodies where we no longer commit sins of any kind?

Love in Christ,
Mark

 

[Episkopos]

Hi Jake,

We may be talking different things. Do you think we can reach a state while in these bodies where we no longer commit sins of any kind?

Love in Christ,
Mark

I think what Jake is saying is that walking in the Spirit IS that state of not sinning!

 

[mark s]

Most Emphatically Yes!

 

[Jake]

I think what Jake is saying is that walking in the Spirit IS that state of not sinning!

Seriously, this is all I had to say? :lol:

Nice summary.

 

[Episkopos]

I see that attachment now brother. Thanks.



That idea is contrary to what Paul was saying in the Romans 7 chapter, about finding himself doing what he would not. Paul was simply revealing how we all... fall short of the glory of God and His Christ. Thus we having "a walk that is identical with Christ" is impossible today, mainly because of the law of sin in our flesh.

That's also why Paul taught in Gal.3:22 that all have been concluded under sin so that the promise by Faith of Jesus Christ would be given to them who believe.


Ancient eastern philosophy believes that we actually can... reach 'perfection' in our flesh, and thus be released from the 'wheel of rebirth' (reincarnation). That idea is a slippery slope to nowhere, for ONLY Jesus Christ could be perfect in a flesh body, simply because He is Immanuel God with us (Isa.7; Matt.1:23). That's why He ONLY is God's Promised Saviour, and is there no one else.

Jesus Christ is a Saviour that can actually save us from the power of the flesh. When Paul says it is no longer he that lives but Christ....he is showing that power over the law of sin and death. Those who are in Christ are under a new power and law...the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. The first Adam is not more powerful than the last Adam.

 

[mark s]

Just wanting to make sure, with 266 views and 8 downloads (3 are me), is everyone seeing the attachment?

 

[veteran]

Jesus Christ is a Saviour that can actually save us from the power of the flesh. When Paul says it is no longer he that lives but Christ....he is showing that power over the law of sin and death. Those who are in Christ are under a new power and law...the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. The first Adam is not more powerful than the last Adam.

And the "last Adam" idea of 1 Cor.15 is about our Lord Jesus in Heaven, His Resurrection. Our resurrection is still yet to come when He returns.

1 Cor 15:43-49
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
(KJV)

We have yet to bear that "image of the heavenly" today. It's of the world to come.

 

[mark s]

I've been thinking about this.

For those he foreknew, he also predestinated, and those he predestinated, he also call, and those he called he also justified, and those he justified he also glorified.

About every time I hear this passage preached, everything there has already happened, except for being glorified. That is presented as "prophetic past tense". But why should it be read any differently from the rest of the passage?

Isn't being born as God's child a glorification?

Love in Christ,
Mark

 

[Episkopos]

I've been thinking about this.

For those he foreknew, he also predestinated, and those he predestinated, he also call, and those he called he also justified, and those he justified he also glorified.

About every time I hear this passage preached, everything there has already happened, except for being glorified. That is presented as "prophetic past tense". But why should it be read any differently from the rest of the passage?

Isn't being born as God's child a glorification?

Love in Christ,
Mark

This is a wrong reading of the verse. The logic is saying that one who is glorified goes through all the necessary steps. To make an acceptance of Christ as a guaranteed glorification is way out there.

The logic goes like this...the little league player becomes a pro, then plays the world series then goes into the hall of fame. This does not mean that every little leaguer goes into the hall of fame!

 

[mark s]

I thought maybe I had remembered it wrong, but:

Romans 8:29-30 LITV
(29) because whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, for Him to be the First-born among many brothers.
(30) But whom He predestinated, these He also called; and whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Paul is the one saying it's already happened. Even if you do go with a "prophetic past . . .", Paul still presents it as matter of fact, that all "little leager's" do enter the "hall of fame."

Is it that we have different ideas on what it means to be "born again"? Or maybe you are thinking this passage applies not only to the born again?

Hoping for not a OSAS debate,
Standing on the Word,
Love in Christ,
mark

 

[Episkopos]

And the "last Adam" idea of 1 Cor.15 is about our Lord Jesus in Heaven, His Resurrection. Our resurrection is still yet to come when He returns.

1 Cor 15:43-49
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
(KJV)

We have yet to bear that "image of the heavenly" today. It's of the world to come.

We are to walk in resurrection life according to the Spirit. We are dead to sin who are alive to Christ. The test of faith is that we still have mortal bodies. Does this fact rule our lives...or does faith in Christ? We have this treasure of a divine life in earthen vessels.

I thought maybe I had remembered it wrong, but:

Romans 8:29-30 LITV
(29) because whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, for Him to be the First-born among many brothers.
(30) But whom He predestinated, these He also called; and whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Paul is the one saying it's already happened. Even if you do go with a "prophetic past . . .", Paul still presents it as matter of fact, that all "little leager's" do enter the "hall of fame."

Is it that we have different ideas on what it means to be "born again"? Or maybe you are thinking this passage applies not only to the born again?

Hoping for not a OSAS debate,
Standing on the Word,
Love in Christ,
mark

Being BORN again is not the same as being MATURE again. Not all who are born end up mature.

 

[mark s]

Hi Episkopos,

Trying not for a OSAS debate . . .

If you have been raised with Christ, having died with Him, you will appear with Him in glory, according to Colossians 3. This is not only didactic, it is also prophetic. It will happen.

Perhaps, if you wish to discuss the permanence or impermanance of our salvation, we could move over to one of those threads, or start another?

I would not mind such a discussion. To learn the truth about Grace can revolutionize lives.

Love in Christ,
Mark

 

[Episkopos]

Hi Episkopos,

Trying not for a OSAS debate . . .

If you have been raised with Christ, having died with Him, you will appear with Him in glory, according to Colossians 3. This is not only didactic, it is also prophetic. It will happen.

Perhaps, if you wish to discuss the permanence or impermanance of our salvation, we could move over to one of those threads, or start another?

I would not mind such a discussion. To learn the truth about Grace can revolutionize lives.

Love in Christ,
Mark

Christ is permanent...we are only so permanent by abiding in Christ. Grace is the power that transforms our lives so as to be equipped to please God. The grace remains God's...not ours.

I'm quite tired of trying to explain the race to people who wish to have a fairy tale ending of their own imaginings. If someone wishes to dream this way...so be it! No man is so constant that he will always be what he is no matter what...or else we would remain ignorant of God all our lives. Men change...pride gets in...complancency sets in. Or else the fear of the Lord keeps us in the narrow way.

Blessings

 

[mark s]

Then I may consider the matter closed in this thread?

Love in Christ,
Mark

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Being BORN again is not the same as being MATURE again. Not all who are born end up mature.

IMO, not all who are begotten are born alive. Some begotten children are stillborn. Like you wisely say, fear.

 

[Netchaplain]

I believe the person, through the physical mind, uses the soul for all the thought processes and that it is the nature of the person which the soul uses to conclude its' determinations. Our spirit is the medium which houses our soul and our body is the medium which houses our spirit. So, the only entity is the person, which has the mind (part of the physical body), soul and spirit.

Everyone has an original nature--the Adamic-nature we're born with but only Christians have an additional nature which they are born-again with, which is from Christ.

Therefore, the only element receiving regeneration through re-birth is the person or individual, which is the only entity. Our original nature which we're born with isn't regenerated nor eradicated but cross-controlled; nor is our new nature born-again because it is a by-product of regeneration, an additional nature from Christ which doesn't need regenerated.

After we're saved, the Holy Spirit, through the written Word of God, uses the new nature to mature us in Christ.

 

[Episkopos]

I believe the person, through the physical mind, uses the soul for all the thought processes and that it is the nature of the person which the soul uses to conclude its' determinations. Our spirit is the medium which houses our soul and our body is the medium which houses our spirit. So, the only entity is the person, which has the mind (part of the physical body), soul and spirit.

Everyone has an original nature--the Adamic-nature we're born with but only Christians have an additional nature which they are born-again with, which is from Christ.

Therefore, the only element receiving regeneration through re-birth is the person or individual, which is the only entity. Our original nature which we're born with isn't regenerated nor eradicated but cross-controlled; nor is our new nature born-again because it is a by-product of regeneration, an additional nature from Christ which doesn't need regenerated.

After we're saved, the Holy Spirit, through the written Word of God, uses the new nature to mature us in Christ.

...and we are to reckon ourselves as bought slaves to Christ and His Lordship.

 

[veteran]

So just what part of us is saved, our flesh, or our spirit? Our spirit with soul.

There is no salvation of our flesh, for that's what the difference is with the "spiritual body" Paul taught in 1 Cor.15.

 

[Episkopos]

So just what part of us is saved, our flesh, or our spirit? Our spirit with soul.

There is no salvation of our flesh, for that's what the difference is with the "spiritual body" Paul taught in 1 Cor.15.

The presence of the grace of God in our spirits is able to save our souls if we continue in the salvation process till the end.

1Pe_1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

 

[mark s]

* Bump *

Be sure to look at the attachement . . . that's where the body of the study is.