Motivated by Spirit/spirit

[Stranger]

Iv'e been in (1 Samuel) in my daily Bible readings and have concluded that man is never independent but it is always motivated by the Spirit of God, or an evil spirit. This can be both believer and unbeliever.

King Saul is I believe a perfect example of this. Chosen by God to be King. (1 Sam. 10:1) Samuel the prophet promised that Saul would be given a new heart by the Spirit of God and that he would prophecy by that Spirit. (1 Sam. 10:6-9) Which did occur. (10:10-11)

But of course we know Saul sinned against God and intruded upon the office of Priest and made sacrifices instead of waiting for Samuel the prophet. This cost him the kingdom. (1 Sam. 13:14) (15:28) Thus now he who was changed by the Spirit of God becomes an enemy to God's people so that Samuel the prophet feared him. (16:2) For the Spirit of God no longer motivated Saul. An evil spirit sent by God did. (16:15) Isn't that something? You reject God, and you receive an evil spirit sent by God. Either way, you are motivated by Spirit/spirit.

And not only did the evil spirit send Saul into terrible moods and fits of anger, but he also prophecied by that evil spirit. (1 Sam. 18:10) He who once prophecied by the Holy Spirit now prophecied by an evil spirit sent by God.

And we know that David as a youth was used by Saul to calm him with music when that evil spirit came upon him. I think David was thinking of this when he cried out to God after he sinned with Bathsheba and against Uriah. "Take not thy holy spirit from me" (Ps. 51:11) He saw what a man of God can become when he turns away from god. We never have 'independence'. We are motivated by the spirit realm in some direction or another.

Stranger

 

[Helen]

Iv'e been in (1 Samuel) in my daily Bible readings and have concluded that man is never independent but it is always motivated by the Spirit of God, or an evil spirit. This can be both believer and unbeliever.

King Saul is I believe a perfect example of this. Chosen by God to be King. (1 Sam. 10:1) Samuel the prophet promised that Saul would be given a new heart by the Spirit of God and that he would prophecy by that Spirit. (1 Sam. 10:6-9) Which did occur. (10:10-11)

But of course we know Saul sinned against God and intruded upon the office of Priest and made sacrifices instead of waiting for Samuel the prophet. This cost him the kingdom. (1 Sam. 13:14) (15:28) Thus now he who was changed by the Spirit of God becomes an enemy to God's people so that Samuel the prophet feared him. (16:2) For the Spirit of God no longer motivated Saul. An evil spirit sent by God did. (16:15) Isn't that something? You reject God, and you receive an evil spirit sent by God. Either way, you are motivated by Spirit/spirit.

And not only did the evil spirit send Saul into terrible moods and fits of anger, but he also prophecied by that evil spirit. (1 Sam. 18:10) He who once prophecied by the Holy Spirit now prophecied by an evil spirit sent by God.

And we know that David as a youth was used by Saul to calm him with music when that evil spirit came upon him. I think David was thinking of this when he cried out to God after he sinned with Bathsheba and against Uriah. "Take not thy holy spirit from me" (Ps. 51:11) He saw what a man of God can become when he turns away from god. We never have 'independence'. We are motivated by the spirit realm in some direction or another.

Stranger

Excellent post.

And what a great post to read first thing in the morning.
Looking forward to seeing how this thread develops today.

Great thoughts here.

 

[lforrest]

IMHO it is impossible to be free of spiritual influences. People may still be under the influence of evil spirits even if not displaying the murderous tendencies Saul did. That is something I take from Romans 6:16

 

[CoreIssue]

IMHO it is impossible to be free of spiritual influences. People may still be under the influence of evil spirits even if not displaying the murderous tendencies Saul did. That is something I take from Romans 6:16

I agree.

Mysticism

World Unity

 

[Stranger]

Excellent post.

And what a great post to read first thing in the morning.
Looking forward to seeing how this thread develops today.

Great thoughts here.

Yes, I had the same reaction when I was reading it. Just one of those things the Spirit of God impresses upon you when you go through a daily reading. And as I firmly believe Saul was a believer, a child of God, it shows believers that we are not exempt from the evil of the spirit world though we have the Holy Spirit. I recognize that the Holy Spirit had left Saul when the evil spirit was sent from God. But Saul was still a child of God.

Makes me wonder concerning the evil spirit and Saul's prophecying by it. I would love to know what he said, or understand more fully what is meant here. (1 Sam. 19:10) And then, later Saul appears to be prophecying by the Spirit of God before Samuel. (19:23-24)

We are truly vessels.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

IMHO it is impossible to be free of spiritual influences. People may still be under the influence of evil spirits even if not displaying the murderous tendencies Saul did. That is something I take from Romans 6:16

That is true. For it is a 'whom' that we yield. And of course we now know no man after the flesh. (2 Cor. 5:16)
Yes, even if people may being doing normal or even what they call 'good things', they could be under the influence of an evil spirit.

We as believers have the Holy Spirit and are so protected to the degree that an evil spirit cannot completely overtake us. But they can heavily influence and oppress our soul and affect our spirit.

The unbeliever is completely at the mercy of the evil spirit which affects their thinking, their feelings and movements.

Stranger

 

[Helen]

Yes, I had the same reaction when I was reading it. Just one of those things the Spirit of God impresses upon you when you go through a daily reading. And as I firmly believe Saul was a believer, a child of God, it shows believers that we are not exempt from the evil of the spirit world though we have the Holy Spirit. I recognize that the Holy Spirit had left Saul when the evil spirit was sent from God. But Saul was still a child of God.

Makes me wonder concerning the evil spirit and Saul's prophecying by it. I would love to know what he said, or understand more fully what is meant here. (1 Sam. 19:10) And then, later Saul appears to be prophecying by the Spirit of God before Samuel. (19:23-24)

We are truly vessels.

Stranger

I too believe that Saul was a believer. I kinda always felt sorry for him..minding his own business , then along trots Samuel and anoints him King!!!
( "out of season" and not the King that God had chosen...but Israel wanted a King) I think I would have been a bit downcast too!!

We can remember Elijah..running and sitting by the brook Cherith..
(1 Kings 17 ) Elijah obviously came under a spirit of depression. One moment under the anointing..prophesying and declaring the fall of the prophets of Baal...next moment when the mantle of anointing was not so heavy..in deep fear and oppression..
It seems that Saul often did too. ..hence David playing worship to drive the spirit away.
( Isaiah 61...3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified. )
That will see off any spirit quickly!

I remember a close friend of mine telling me about someone staying at her house who needed her help and was deeply troubled by a spirit of oppression.
My friend went and got her tape recorder , stuck in a cassette tape and said to the spirit..."if you are going to stick around here and bother her, then you are darn well going to be driven mad by listening to constant worship and praise."
She played worship all day...and at night her friend had an ear plug and played the worship on the tiny cassette recorder under her pillow all night.
Her friend left her house light, free and happy!!

The power of Praise is much underestimated!!

Im glad the story shows that even thought Saul was 'not the man', and although he was jealous of David who stole the peoples hearts...they was a mutual respect between them. I believe David loved him deeply in spite of everything.


( okay, here is a ribbit hole for you...When an evil spirit of oppression wins the day over a person..does God hold them responsible? We know Saul got his armour barer to run him through with a sword when the battle was lost, and he was wounded. If depression won the day..is Saul accountable? Is it any different that a spirit of cancer who 'wins the day'..and the person dies before time? Spirits are spirits...and their intent is always to destroy the believer.)


Don't answer if it will derail your thread.

 

[Stranger]

I too believe that Saul was a believer. I kinda always felt sorry for him..minding his own business , then along trots Samuel and anoints him King!!!
( "out of season" and not the King that God had chosen...but Israel wanted a King) I think I would have been a bit downcast too!!

We can remember Elijah..running and sitting by the brook Cherith..
(1 Kings 17 ) Elijah obviously came under a spirit of depression. One moment under the anointing..prophesying and declaring the fall of the prophets of Baal...next moment when the mantle of anointing was not so heavy..in deep fear and oppression..
It seems that Saul often did too. ..hence David playing worship to drive the spirit away.
( Isaiah 61...3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified. )
That will see off any spirit quickly!

I remember a close friend of mine telling me about someone staying at her house who needed her help and was deeply troubled by a spirit of oppression.
My friend went and got her tape recorder , stuck in a cassette tape and said to the spirit..."if you are going to stick around here and bother her, then you are darn well going to be driven mad by listening to constant worship and praise."
She played worship all day...and at night her friend had an ear plug and played the worship on the tiny cassette recorder under her pillow all night.
Her friend left her house light, free and happy!!

The power of Praise is much underestimated!!

Im glad the story shows that even thought Saul was 'not the man', and although he was jealous of David who stole the peoples hearts...they was a mutual respect between them. I believe David loved him deeply in spite of everything.


( okay, here is a ribbit hole for you...When an evil spirit of oppression wins the day over a person..does God hold them responsible? We know Saul got his armour barer to run him through with a sword when the battle was lost, and he was wounded. If depression won the day..is Saul accountable? Is it any different that a spirit of cancer who 'wins the day'..and the person dies before time? Spirits are spirits...and their intent is always to destroy the believer.)


Don't answer if it will derail your thread.

Yes, the praise and vocal worship to God and Christ is powerful against satan and his ilk. They cannot stand it. And that coupled with prayer is an unstoppable force. Years ago a young woman I knew was very much into the occult. But she was romantically involved with my best friend and cousin. I had just become a Christian. She was driving a wedge between me and my cousins friendship which was beyond that of brothers. Much like David and Jonathan.

And things occurred that caused me to pray hard against her. Very hard. She was successful in splittin us up for a while. But during that time that I was praying against her, and several months later, I get a phone call out of the blue, from her. When I answered the phone, she says, 'peace'. She just wanted peace for some reason. Why? Because she, who was so connected to the dark side, could feel the affects of the prayers I had sent. It matters, and it works.

Now...did God send this evil woman or did satan? God has taught me that He did. It did drive a wedge between me and my cousin, but that was a wedge that needed to be driven. But she didn't do it as to service to God. She did it as service to her master. But as always, satan's works play into the hand of God.

Saul was a believer. His taking his own life takes nothing away from that. A believer who takes their own life takes nothing away from their being a believer. The oppression of depression is real, and doesn't take away the responsibility of the believer. But the actions of the believer do not take away from the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ sacrifice trumps all sins of the believer.

Stranger

 

[Nancy]

I too believe that Saul was a believer. I kinda always felt sorry for him..minding his own business , then along trots Samuel and anoints him King!!!
( "out of season" and not the King that God had chosen...but Israel wanted a King) I think I would have been a bit downcast too!!

We can remember Elijah..running and sitting by the brook Cherith..
(1 Kings 17 ) Elijah obviously came under a spirit of depression. One moment under the anointing..prophesying and declaring the fall of the prophets of Baal...next moment when the mantle of anointing was not so heavy..in deep fear and oppression..
It seems that Saul often did too. ..hence David playing worship to drive the spirit away.
( Isaiah 61...3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified. )
That will see off any spirit quickly!

I remember a close friend of mine telling me about someone staying at her house who needed her help and was deeply troubled by a spirit of oppression.
My friend went and got her tape recorder , stuck in a cassette tape and said to the spirit..."if you are going to stick around here and bother her, then you are darn well going to be driven mad by listening to constant worship and praise."
She played worship all day...and at night her friend had an ear plug and played the worship on the tiny cassette recorder under her pillow all night.
Her friend left her house light, free and happy!!

The power of Praise is much underestimated!!

Im glad the story shows that even thought Saul was 'not the man', and although he was jealous of David who stole the peoples hearts...they was a mutual respect between them. I believe David loved him deeply in spite of everything.


( okay, here is a ribbit hole for you...When an evil spirit of oppression wins the day over a person..does God hold them responsible? We know Saul got his armour barer to run him through with a sword when the battle was lost, and he was wounded. If depression won the day..is Saul accountable? Is it any different that a spirit of cancer who 'wins the day'..and the person dies before time? Spirits are spirits...and their intent is always to destroy the believer.)


Don't answer if it will derail your thread.

"okay, here is a ribbit hole for you..." <--- Is that where frogs live?
Awesomnessly awesome post me sister ☻♥
There is nothing that can change your atmosphere and lift your spirit like Praise and Worship music...it's my go to, especially if having struggles in prayer.
I've always been ambivalent when it came to Saul, could never figure him to be a man of God or not! And, yes Helen, I can understand that you felt kind of bad for him, so do I now ♥

 

[FHII]

Good post! I like the part about an evil spirit sent by the Lord. Most folks deny God does such things, but he does.

I agree with #Bygrace kind of feeling sorry for Saul. The interaction with he and David is fascinating! Saul's son is Jonathan whom I've at times admired and identified with.

It seems to me that Saul could've been great. He was not brought in under good circumstances. Samuel was the leader, but they wanted a king. Saul was picked. A strong leader at the start. People may not realize it, but he was also a hulking figure! At least a foot taller than anyone in Israel.

Saul seemed to become jealous. He despised David, though David honored him.

He also won a battle but disobeyed God's command to kill everyone and their cattle. Saul claimedcit was simply to offer a sacrifice. That causedSamuel to turn from Saul because it was not the specific instructions God gave.

I sometimes wonder if Saul's problem was he tried to make himself great instead of letting God annoint him.

 

[aspen]

It seems that Saul fell into the age old trap of compounding sin rather than acknowledging and confessing it. So many horrors would be averted if we admitted our anger, jealousy, pride, etc

David was going to be King at some point whether Saul sinned or not; unfortunately, Saul was not willing to follow God during his reign, which probably compounded his resolve as it ended badly

So much for doubling down

 

[Dave L]

I too believe that Saul was a believer. I kinda always felt sorry for him..minding his own business , then along trots Samuel and anoints him King!!!
( "out of season" and not the King that God had chosen...but Israel wanted a King) I think I would have been a bit downcast too!!

We can remember Elijah..running and sitting by the brook Cherith..
(1 Kings 17 ) Elijah obviously came under a spirit of depression. One moment under the anointing..prophesying and declaring the fall of the prophets of Baal...next moment when the mantle of anointing was not so heavy..in deep fear and oppression..
It seems that Saul often did too. ..hence David playing worship to drive the spirit away.
( Isaiah 61...3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified. )
That will see off any spirit quickly!

I remember a close friend of mine telling me about someone staying at her house who needed her help and was deeply troubled by a spirit of oppression.
My friend went and got her tape recorder , stuck in a cassette tape and said to the spirit..."if you are going to stick around here and bother her, then you are darn well going to be driven mad by listening to constant worship and praise."
She played worship all day...and at night her friend had an ear plug and played the worship on the tiny cassette recorder under her pillow all night.
Her friend left her house light, free and happy!!

The power of Praise is much underestimated!!

Im glad the story shows that even thought Saul was 'not the man', and although he was jealous of David who stole the peoples hearts...they was a mutual respect between them. I believe David loved him deeply in spite of everything.


( okay, here is a ribbit hole for you...When an evil spirit of oppression wins the day over a person..does God hold them responsible? We know Saul got his armour barer to run him through with a sword when the battle was lost, and he was wounded. If depression won the day..is Saul accountable? Is it any different that a spirit of cancer who 'wins the day'..and the person dies before time? Spirits are spirits...and their intent is always to destroy the believer.)


Don't answer if it will derail your thread.

I've been in a couple of house worship groups where the prayer and worship spawned demonic manifestations. Both times the "believers" were paralyzed with their faces drawn and arms and legs contorted. We of course commanded the spirits to leave in Jesus' name.

 

[Helen]

I've been in a couple of house worship groups where the prayer and worship spawned demonic manifestations. Both times the "believers" were paralyzed with their faces drawn and arms and legs contorted. We of course commanded the spirits to leave in Jesus' name.

I believe ( convinced) this happens and can only happen when the person is looking for "manifestations" and not there looking for God and His word.
ie, all about them, and not all about God.

If our hearts are truly God centred we are safe.
If the person 'wants a show' we have numerous times seen the demonic very willing to 'put on a show' for them.

I think this kind of thing happens when the person shepherding, has no discernment of spirits...good or bad.

 

[Dave L]

I believe ( convinced) this happens and can only happen when the person is looking for "manifestations" and not there looking for God and His word.
ie, all about them, and not all about God.

If our hearts are truly God centred we are safe.
If the person 'wants a show' we have numerous times seen the demonic very willing to 'put on a show' for them.

I think this kind of thing happens when the person shepherding, has no discernment of spirits...good or bad.

Both times we just worshiped and prayed as a small group. But I think it provoked the manifestations as a side affect. Totally unexpected and alarming at first. It was more like the pharisees staggering backwards and falling to the ground when exposed to Jesus in the garden. Or other demonic manifestations that happened as a result of coming into contact with him. Do you remember reports of the movie "The Exorcist" having similar effects?

 

[Stranger]

I've been in a couple of house worship groups where the prayer and worship spawned demonic manifestations. Both times the "believers" were paralyzed with their faces drawn and arms and legs contorted. We of course commanded the spirits to leave in Jesus' name.

Sorry, this doesn't make any sense. Prayer and worship is going out to God among believers and your saying the believers were demon possesed during it?

I don't believe you. Nor do I believe you commanded the the false spirits to leave and they left. Sounds fitting with your doctrine though.

Stranger

 

[aspen]

Saul reminds me of me (now I really hate him) sorry couldn’t resist a little tombstone in my post

Seriously, it is never a good feeling to be replaced.....even when you have fallen out of favor because of your own slacking and cutting corners, which I remember doing in my twenties. It takes fortitude and grace to be able to step aside when it is time and perhaps help out the person replacing you on the way out.