I've read some people talking about how we should move to Zion/Jerusalem so that we are there during the tribulation. Can someone explain to me why, and if a person decides they should do this...how would they? I mean, it's not as if there are tons of jobs in Israel! Just curious about this...personally I think it would be awesome to move to Israel..but don't see how I could do it. But in any case, i'd like to understand why some think we SHOULD move there, what scriptures back that up etc. thanks! shalom,Liz
Moving to Zion?
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LizMatthew 24 tells tell us that there is a time coming when we should "flee Judaea" so why would you want to move there?
Hello gervais, You stated: Matthew 24 tells tell us that there is a time coming when we should "flee Judaea" My response: Judea is not Jerusalem. Specifically Matthew 24 tell the inhabitants of Judea (which is the countryside where Jerusalem is a city of) to flee to the mountains (which Jerusalem the highest point in the area being built upon three mountains, one of which is Mount Zion). You stated: ....so why would you want to move there? My response: Because the scriptures state that there will be believers that will survive to Christ's advent. Joel 2: 32 And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said, among the survivors whom the LORD calls.Revelation 14: 1Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. BTW, let's say I am wrong. Do you think that staying put is going to protect you from the AC police? In Yehoshua,Guy Smith
Hello Liz, I believe that God has established Mount Zion in Jerusalem as a place-of-safety for a small group of Christians. I do not know your reasoning for going, but getting there now is not neccesary but admirable. To succeed, one must get there before the AC enters the yet to be built temple. My plans are to get there about a month before (take in some of the sights before it all goes down). If you are aware of when the tribulation begins, then you will know that 3 1/2 years later (more of less) the AC will enter the temple. The first 3 1/2 years is an important part of the plans that God has provided. This period is basically uneventfull (except for the wars and rumors of wars, and major earthquakes). For Christians, this period is the last opportunity to get to Israel before the mark-of-the-beast is forced on the world. The AC entering the temple marks the beginning of the Great Tribulation and the start of the mark-of-the-beast being mandatory. So one needs only be in the Jerusalem area literally only hours before. The details are provided on my websitewww.geocities.com/guysmith123/144000 In Yehoshua,Guy Smithhttp://www.geocities.com/guysmith123/144000 [email protected]
Are you sure Guy ? Seems to me God said he shortened the time! and the when AC enters the temple as you say is what scripture calls The abomination of desolation and its at mid week of the tribulation ..Not the start ..However I do agree that things change from that point on....
Hello Christina, You stated: Are you sure Guy ? My response: Should I be anything less? You stated: Seems to me God said he shortened the time! My response: You are correct. Toward the end of the seven year tribulation, the world will be on a destruction coarse which will require Christ to intercede. You stated: and the when AC enters the temple as you say is what scripture calls The abomination of desolation and its at mid week of the tribulation ..Not the start .. My response: I agree. The tribulation period is a seven year period which preceeds the advent of Christ. The first half of this seven year period is uneventful Christianity wise. The second half (commonly known as the Great Tribulation) begins when the AC enters the temple. God has provided us with the first 3 1/2 years as a grace period (so-to-speak) so that we will know when the GT is about to start. Do you think this information is of any value to those who plan to do nothing but to wait for the AC police to come and round them up? In Yehoshua,Guy Smith
Hello Christina, Are you stating that all that place there faith in Christ will avoid being martyred by the AC during the GT?
I dont see where it says all that many will be marteryed a few perhaps but he has orders he can not kill us and I think we agree this wont occur at all in the first half of tribulation ...by the time he begins to break that order it is but a very short time till Christ returns perhaps days ... I dont agree with your exact time scenerio The entire tribulation period is 7 years ... But God shortens the tribulation itself not just half of it ...Now what does that mean the seven years will happen but the tribulation will not last the full 7 years .... The tribulation starts when A.C comes on the scene from that point til the second coming is the tribulation period and it is shortened ..there fore the tribulation from start to finish is shortened and will not last 7 years .... So for example purposes only lets say God shortened the tribulation to 4 years then mid week in this scererio would be 2 years it is written the abomination must take place at mid week no matter how long or short the tribulation itself is. So the question is how long is the actual tribulation? if God has shortened the time ..he says he foretells us all things so surley he has told us.
Hello Christina, You stated: I dont see where it says all that many will be marteryed a few perhaps but he has orders he can not kill us and I think we agree this wont occur at all in the first half of tribulation ... My response: I'm sorry, I have to disagree. John states: 1And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. Revelation 13:15 This seems pretty clear that "as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed." This doesn't sound like just "few" to me. I do however agree that this won't happen at all in the first half of the tribulation. You stated: I also dont agree that the great tribultion starts at mid week it only changes at mid week because thats when A.C. declares himself God. My response: John states that the AC will be given the power to do as he pleases for 42 months, which is 3 1/2 years. Revelation 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. During that time, he will be executing those who do not take the mark-of-the-beast. If this doesn't happen during the second half of the tribulation period, then when? You stated: The tribulation starts when A.C comes on the scene from that point til the second coming is the tribulation period and it is shortened ..there fore the tribulation from start to finish is shortened and will not last 7 years .... My response: I'm sorry, again I have to disagree. According to Daniel's "70 Weeks" prophecy, the first "69 Weeks" were successfully fulfilled (culminating with Christ's sacrifice) providing us with the duration of the prophetic "Week" as lasting for seven years. Do you feel that the first 69 "weeks" are inaccurate? I agree that the time will be shortened. However, I believe that it is shortened from an indefinite amount of time to seven years. You stated: I also dont think everyone needs to run to Jerusalem God protects his own one need only have faith in him that he will have you where he wants you ... The tribulation is upon the Entire world you run to him not a place ... My response: If we are not to run to a certains "place," then why does he tell certain individuals to to "flee?" 1. Matthew 24:16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 2. Zechariah 14:5And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. I believe that God has provided us with a literal place-of-safety. Why bother studying Bible prophecy if you are just supposed to just wait for the AC police to round you up? In Yehoshua,Guy Smith
Guysmith, why did Christ speak about shortening the Satan's tribulation? Once in Matthew and the other is Mark...Matthew 24:22 - And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.Mark 13:20 - And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.This was repeated twice for emphasis. Christ Himself spoke these words... And He said it Himself that the Lord has shortened the time of tribulation. Why is that? And why did John who wrote Revelation and testify of Christ words that the AC is only going to be here for 5 months?Revelation 9:1 - And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.Later in this chapter, he said that Satan has no power and is not given authority to kill mankind...Revelation 9:4 - And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.Revelation 9:5 - And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.Revelation 9:6 - And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.Why is that Guysmith that John testify of Christ word's and knows that Satan has no power to kill mankind except for the two witnesses that God will sent?
Truth be told,I don't want to go anywhere.I will be where God wants me to be.I feel the AC police as you call them will get me..Im I scared?No!This is the time Im looking forward to,as this is the time I will not have to think of anything to say but what comes out of my mouth, will be 110%true! Mark 13:11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Spirit. So you go ahead and make plans for Zion,as for me it's gonna be all good, no matter where Im at... I fear God,not satan....
Personally, I thank and Praise God, i will be gone before the anti-christ reigns on earth, as God speaks so many times about his Believers being saved from His "Wrath", which will be poured out upon the earth during the anti-christ's reign. Among many other Scriptures showing how the "Body of christ" will be gone during that time. But, I'll keep all of those who want to stay for it in prayer. God Bless!!
Christian Commando;73607]Personally said:Hi Christian Commando.We, as believers, are saved from His wrath but...not Satan's tribulation. They are two different events. The tribulation is a time of spiritual testing and we can take it! I agree with Guy where he said.... "I believe that God has established Mount Zion in Jerusalem as a place-of-safety for a small group of Christians." But I don't understand it as he does. This is spiritual in nature. God's children are the spiritual Jerusalem while mount Zion is symbolic of the elect. Hebrews 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest. 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,This city, this mount is....a place of safety in the time of tribulation. We are residents of this heavenly Jerusalem now for we are children of God.
Thats fine as I said if want to believe you'll be here for the Tribulation. Its everyone's choice how to believe. Because there is no other time for God's wrath being poiured out onto the Earth except during the anti-christ's reign. Thus, I believe God tells His Saints, those who will hear christ's voice because they are watching and expecting Him to call to us will hear, be recieved up by Him and be off the earth during that time of wrath. There are "pre", "mid" and "post" Trib. believers. So, each can believe as they choose. God will reveal the Truth at some point and none of us have the "Whole Truth" of God, for we are all falable. Therefore, I leave it to God, to reveal His Truth as time goes on, for each Truth divided over, to be revealed, for us all to learn each one as its shown. God Bless!!
I am going to corner you on this one Jordan.We all know Jesus is speaking to a Jewish audience here (Matthew 24 etc)Jesus states...... for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen ..... he is referring to the Chosen people (Israel) and talking about the end times.This is the elect you find mentioned throughout Revelation tribulation .... not the church ...... the church is not mentioned during the tribulation ... maybe that is why some folks hold to the possibility that the church has been removed already.Systematic theology will always lead to that conclusion.Sorry if I have deviated from this thread , my intention is to point out that Jordan has pointed out (by scripture) that Jesus is describing the tribulation elect as the Jews , not christian gentiles like many people try to claim.Jordan;73425]Matthew 24:22 - [I][B][COLOR=Blue]And except [COLOR=DarkGreen][U]those days should be shortened[/U][/COLOR] said:
[quote name='Martin W.;73715]I am going to corner you on this one Jordan. We all know Jesus is speaking to a Jewish audience here (Matthew 24 etc) Jesus states...... [I][B][COLOR=blue][COLOR=darkgreen][U]for the elect's sake' date=' whom he hath chosen[/U'][/COLOR][/COLOR][/B][/I] ..... he is referring to the Chosen people (Israel) and talking about the end times. This is the elect you find mentioned throughout Revelation tribulation .... not the church ...... the church is not mentioned during the tribulation ... maybe that is why some folks hold to the possibility that the church has been removed already. Systematic theology will always lead to that conclusion. Sorry if I have deviated from this thread , my intention is to point out that Jordan has pointed out (by scripture) that Jesus is describing the tribulation elect as the Jews , not christian gentiles like many people try to claim.[/QUOTE] You are mistaken. Who was Jesus sent for? Who did Jesus find? Matthew 15:24 But He answered and said, "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."Who lives by His Words today? Those same lost sheep...the house of Israel....Christians. There are twelve tribes. Two of those tribes are Jews or "the house of Judah." They are Judah and Benjamin. The other tribes are "the house of Israel" and they are those God scattered. Christ found us. We, as believers, are either genetically of the tribes or we are adopted into them. Either way we are those He was speaking to. We shall experience the tribulation if we are not already. We are the church, we are the body of Christ and we are NOT flown anywhere. And...I assure you...the elect are NOT THE JEWS. The elect are those that believe in HIM. The Jews will but they do not now.
Matthew 15:24 But He answered and said, "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."Who lives by His Words today? Those same lost sheep...the house of Israel....Christians. There are twelve tribes. Two of those tribes are Jews or "the house of Judah." They are Judah and Benjamin. The other tribes are "the house of Israel" and they are those God scattered. Christ found us. We, as believers, are either genetically of the tribes or we are adopted into them. Either way we are those He was speaking to. We shall experience the tribulation if we are not already. We are the church, we are the body of Christ and we are NOT flown anywhere. And...I assure you...the elect are NOT THE JEWS. The elect are those that believe in HIM. The Jews will but they do not now.Hello n2thelight, You stated: Truth be told,I don't want to go anywhere.I will be where God wants me to be.I feel the AC police as you call them will get me..Im I scared?No!This is the time Im looking forward to,as this is the time I will not have to think of anything to say but what comes out of my mouth, will be 110%true! My response: My comfort is in Christ also. However, your position sounds like you prefer the death camps over being alive at Christ's advent. I am not going to try and convince you otherwise, but I have a few questions, if you would, which would help me understand your position. Do you use your car safety belt?Do you have a fire extiguisher and smoke detector in your home?If you answered yes to the first two questions, please tell me why you bother?If miraculously, you found yourself transported in time back to hours before Noah's flood was to begin, and you had an oportunity to get on the ark, would you get on the ark? In Yehoshua,Guy Smith
Hello Whirlwind and Martin, I believe, to a certain extent, you are both correct. Martin, you are correct that the elect is Israel. Specifically, the 144,000, the only Christians that will be alive at Christ's advent. Whirlwind, you are correct that the elect are Christians. The promises to Israel have been extended to Gentiles with Christ's sacrifice. In Yehoshua,Guy Smith
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