Mustard Seed Fellowship.

[justbyfaith]

Please don't tell me you are claiming to be sinless?? Like I stated yesterday... you are starting to grow on me... but this would be a deal breaker.
Somehow the Lord has given me a soft spot for you... and I cannot find it in my heart to be harsh with you.

I am certainly not sinless, sister.

I have sin dwelling in my mortal flesh (1 John 1:8).

However the element of sin within me can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over my behaviour (Romans 6:14).

I'm not sure what it was about my statements that would qualify as a deal-breaker. For I was using biblical terminology (see John 8:31-36, Romans 6:18-22).

The offering of the body of Jesus Christ on the Cross has the power to perfect a man for ever (Hebrews 10:14 (kjv)).

 

[justbyfaith]

There is also a difference between understanding that I am a sinner, in that I am a sinful human being because the element of sin dwells within me; and resigning to the concept that I am a sinner and that therefore I am going to just sin with my life because there is nothing I can do about the power of sin in my life.

The element of sin dwells within me; however it can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over my behaviour (Romans 6:14).

And therefore the latter option is not a biblical stance to be taking.

I am sinful in my flesh; however I do not have to walk according to my flesh (Romans 8:12-13); it is possible for me as a Christian to walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:4).

 

[Addy]

I'm not sure what it was about my statements that would qualify as a deal-breaker.

It was something you said to BB.... If you would have stated yourself sinless... THAT would have been a deal breaker... LOL

You really and honestly are mis-understanding this man... however I do understand that he has been hard on you.... The Lord seems to be telling me the opposite... to be GENTLE with you... I do feel you are sincere in your desire to teach and help.

The gospel of Grace does not condone sin... For some reason... the legalists accuse us of this... because we believe and understand that GOD is the finisher of faith... and that humans cannot see the condition of anyone's heart... therefore are in no position to judge anyone.

Choosing to believe that God will finish what HE has begun is following and obeying scripture... WE trust God to do what HE has promised to do.
We also take scripture most seriously. The below seems to state that we are NOT to judge others... yet somehow ... many are taught or want to believe that the below means something else... there are NO exceptions to judging others... It is commanded that we do NOT.

My day is over now... I BLESS you... in the Name of CHRIST... I BLESS you.

“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. ~Matthew 7:1-5

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites!

 

[justbyfaith]

Hi @Addy.

The extreme grace view can be misunderstood to be condoning sin and as turning the grace of our Lord into lasciviousness.

I understand that if it is taught properly, it does not in all reality do that.

However, there are those who teach it improperly and they need to be "corrected".

I recognize that I have judged @Blood Bought 1953 to be unredeemed in a different thread; however I have only done so in response to the fact of his judgment about me; as he called me a "tare". That is someone who will never be redeemed.

The very passage that you quoted indicates that his judgments concerning me are true of his own self.

 

[justbyfaith]

This is what the other passage says in the kjv.

Mat 23:13, But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

 

[justbyfaith]

There are redeemed scribes (teachers of the law).

Mat 13:52, Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.

 

[justbyfaith]

Gal 3:24, Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Rom 3:20, Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Psa 19:7, The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

 

[justbyfaith]

You really and honestly are mis-understanding this man...

I feel that he is really and honestly misunderstanding me...

You came into this in the middle of the fray.

This whole "war" between me and BB1953 started when he, out of the blue, started saying that the gospel that I preach is FALSE and PERVERTED.

He did this because I accepted his $1,000 challenge to prove that the kjv in any place says that we are to "repent of sin" to be saved.

I showed him the teaching in the kjv...and instead of paying up, he proceeded to induce a blot on my name as a preacher / teacher here on these boards.

Pro 9:7, He that reproveth a scorner getteth to himself shame: and he that rebuketh a wicked man getteth himself a blot.
Pro 9:8, Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.
Pro 9:9, Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he will increase in learning.

I will not forgive him for doing this until and unless he repents (publicly apologizes in a sincere and contrite manner; and in such a way that I may know that it will not happen again: so that it will not happen again).

 

[BloodBought 1953]

This whole "war" between me and BB1953 started when he, out of the blue, started saying that the gospel that I preach is FALSE and PERVERTED.

“If The shoe Fits......” ....
Read Galatians and tell me I am wrong.....anybody....
Its a shame I did not arrive here sooner.....The Ruination Of many Newbies could have been avoided....perhaps now they can grab hold of the True Gospel Of Grace plus Nothing and not have their Walks Of Faith Ship- Wrecked Before they even get started, being Seduced by the Demonic Doctrine Of Lucky Repentance...
—————————————————————————-
He did this because I accepted his $1,000 challenge to prove that the kjv in any place says that we are to "repent of sin" to be saved.
This challenge that I won, Had nothing to do with my calling him out as a “ Gospel Perverter”... I have made the same challenge in other forums and won in those places also...
——————————————————————————————
I showed him the teaching in the kjv...and instead of paying up, he proceeded to induce a blot on my name as a preacher / teacher here on these boards.

He did not show me “Squat”.....I’d do much more than “ induce a blot on his name” if I had the power to do so.....
He is a Spreader Of “ Leaven” and just as much a Cancer on the True Body Of Christ as the Ancient- Day Judaizers ....
God HATES “Leaven”...... so do I.....I’ll attack it like “ a Pit Bull on a Poodle ” every time it rears it’s ugly Perverted Head.....and I ain’t goin’ nowhere......Get used to it.....until YOU Repent Of your Tare- Approved Doctrines Of Adding to Paul’s Gospel Of Grace.....

Your self- made religion is one that makes you always strive to be “ good enough” with your
Performance in Regard to the Law ( why ? Who knows ? “By The Works Of the Law, no man will be Justified) and when you have a Stumble, you MUST immediately make sure you Repent , lest you be thrown into Hell when you die.....You are only confident and assured when you are certain that your “Repentance Ledger” is clean and up to date ( you do things every day that you don’t even “ know” are sins ) .........you think that now that you have the Spirit in you, you can be perfect in your Flesh body, which any man with a brain knows is a lie ....
You’ve mangled and misunderstood True Scripture, Yet you have managed to build a cocoon around yourself so that you can sleep at night , but this “ cocoon”is built out a bunch of Religious Mush.....you are too Stiff - Necked to learn from those smarter than you that possess more Bible UNDERSTANDING than you do and the results show Glaringly to those that know what they are talking about because they USED to be JUST LIKE YOU!
.....yeah, I used to be Religious like you are—- I know EXACTLY how your mind works, but I outgrew it.......I LEARNED that “ Religion” is of the Devil, and guys like you Turn Christianity into a Religion—- all about what YOU do for GOD .....when Christianity is all about what GOD has done for MAN! Religion says “ Do” ( your version of this is “ be good all of the time and when you ain’t , make sure you Repent super- fast so you don’t die first and go to Hell ) .... Christianity says “ DONE” and knowing that you are Saved Forever makes a person want to Sin LESS — NOT MORE!
God help you Blind Guides.....you just can’t “ see” it......

 

[marksman]

I think that perhaps I have overstepped my bounds. I do not presume to take a position of authority except for the authority that is in the word of God, in that I seek to almost always back up my statements with scripture.

May I point out something very relevant. There are plenty of Toms, Dicks, and Harrys who claim the authority of the Word of God but who in actual fact are claiming the authority of their interpretation of the word of God which is quite different. David Koresh would be a good example of that. Scientology another. And in a lot of cases, some pentecostal churches, who believe that the pastor is god.

And the latest fad, that of women being leaders of the church. We have scripture for that don't we. Debra, Junias and Priscilla. Twenty three verses and two letters written by Paul say otherwise but we won't bother ourselves with those will we.

We can all quote a verse of scripture (proof texting) and say "There you are. The scripture agrees with me" but when all is said and done and one searches the scriptures in fact that verse does not agree with you in the light of the overall exegesis of scripture, which is the only one that matters.

 

[justbyfaith]

We can all quote a verse of scripture (proof texting) and say "There you are. The scripture agrees with me" but when all is said and done and one searches the scriptures in fact that verse does not agree with you in the light of the overall exegesis of scripture, which is the only one that matters.

I do not believe that the "overall exegesis of scripture" is ever going to contradict what is spoken by singular passages of scripture; unless that overall exegesis excludes those passages in its affirmation.

There are plenty of Toms, Dicks, and Harrys who claim the authority of the Word of God but who in actual fact are claiming the authority of their interpretation of the word of God which is quite different.

I normally do my best to give the proper exegesis of any scriptures that I might reference. I try to make sure that what I say about any particular scripture is not "my own interpretation". Those who read my posts are also very welcome to scroll their mouse over the scripture in question and look at it to see whether that scripture is saying what I say that it says. Or, if I am referencing the kjv, they can look up that verse or passage in their own kjv Bibles or else go to Bible Search and Study Tools - Blue Letter Bible to see what is written in the kjv on the issue.

 

[justbyfaith]

Your self- made religion is one that makes you always strive to be “ good enough” with your
Performance in Regard to the Law ( why ? Who knows ? “By The Works Of the Law, no man will be Justified) and when you have a Stumble, you MUST immediately make sure you Repent , lest you be thrown into Hell when you die...

Clearly, if anyone is a worker / doer of iniquity, he will be cast into the furnace of everlasting fire (Matthew 13:41-42, Matthew 7:23, Matthew 25:41).

The works of the flesh are all things that if you work those works, you will be acting in violation of the law (Galatians 5:19-21); and also if you bear the fruit of the Spirit, there is no law that will condemn your behaviour. In other words, those who bear the fruit of the Spirit become law-abiding citizens of the kingdom of heaven (Galatians 5:16; see also Romans 8:4).

(And those who walk after the flesh, also shall not inherit the kingdom.)

It is a righteousness apart from the law that is nevertheless attested to by the law and the prophets (Romans 3:21) that it is righteousness indeed.

For we do not obtain it by attempting to keep a set of do's and don'ts (i.e. through law-keeping)...but we enter into it by a different venue.

We place our faith in Jesus and receive the Holy Spirit by that faith (Galatians 3:14). Then, as we bear the fruit of the Spirit, there will be no law that condemns our behaviour (Galatians 5:22-23); because there is no law that condemns the behaviour of love and goodness (which are only two of the aforementioned fruits of the Spirit).

Thus we become law-abiding citizens of the kingdom, not by attempting to obey a set of do's and don'ts; but because we bear the virtues of the Holy Spirit.

Thus, we find the objective truth that by the law is the knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20). We are shown that we are still sinners in need of a Saviour (from sin) when the law pinpoints our behaviour as evil. It is like the song goes:

"What's going on inside of me?...I despise my own behaviour...This only serves to confirm my suspicion...That I'm still a man in need of the Saviour."

Of course we still need Christ (see John 15:1-8) even if we are walking in freedom (John 8:31-36) and victory (1 Corinthians 15:57) over sin.

But the song in question indicates a person who has not yet been forgiven; and who needs Christ to even forgive them of their sins.

I would think that when a man is born again, he is made into a new creature in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17 (kjv))...he is no longer inclined towards stumbling (Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10).

In 1 John 3:9, we find the concept that those who are born of God "cannot sin".

Hyperbole?

If so, then John is exaggerating to make a point.

What point?

That those who have been born again have made a 180-degree turn away from sin, death, hell, and satan, towards righteousness, life, heaven, and God.

They have REPENTED. So they are walking in a different direction than before. So that the following is true of them.

Pro 4:18, But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.

Also, it should be clear that the holy scriptures dictate that if anyone ceases to walk in the Lord's goodness, they will be "cut off".

Rom 11:20, Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21, For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22, Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

It should also be clear that it is the teaching of scripture that the doers of the law shall be justified (Romans 2:13); while it is also true that we are not justified "by" the works of law (Romans 3:20, Galatians 2:16).

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I recognize that I have judged @Blood Bought 1953 to be unredeemed in a different thread; however I have only done so in response to the fact of his judgment about me; as he called me a "tare". That is someone who will never be redeemed.

If a “ Tare” can never be redeemed, it could have been a mistake for me to use that word....I was not thinking sharply to lump the Tares in with the Legalists and Religionists......I am not really sure if you are Lost or not......Tares seem to be in a class all by themselves....
To clarify......I KNOW you are a Legalist.....I KNOW you are “ Fallen From Grace.....I KNOW you are a Religionist and I KNOW you teach a False and Perverted Gospel because you have ignored Paul’s Warnings not to ADD to his Gospel Of Grace .....you “ add” to it because you preach “ Jesus Saves, BUT you gotta Repent from your sins before you die or you are damned”.That stuff ain’t in the Gospel That Saves If merely Believed ( 1Cor15:1-4 ) If those things make you a “ Tare” —— the Shoe seems to fit quite comfortably on you...

So , I don’t know if it makes you a Lost Tare to be “ Fallen From Grace”, but that is the position you are currently in.....

Paul says that if Anybody TEACHES a Different Gospel than the One He Taught—-“ Let Him Be ACCURSED”...... that is Damnation for what you do! Is that the same as being an “ irredeemable Tare?”....I don’t know.....you are in Serious Jeopardy and That I DO know!

While typing this I did a little research and it ain't looking good for JBF ....there will be more to follow....

 

[justbyfaith]

...I KNOW you are “ Fallen From Grace..

No; you only think that: and in saying what you say, you are in violation of Luke 6:37.

“ Jesus Saves, BUT you gotta Repent from your sins before you die or you are damned”.

My point is, more accurately, that when a man is saved, he is not only saved from the penalty of his sins; but from their power and practice (Matthew 1:21, Titus 2:14-15).

And that the Lord is not going to do this work in you against your will. Because Jesus and the Holy Spirit are a gentleman.

So, repentance is required.

And no, I am not saying that you have to repent of every individual sin that you have committed in times past. The Holy Spirit will pinpoint those in His timing, so that you can confess them and be cleansed from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:7-9).

I am saying that you are to repent (turn around) as concerning walking in the direction of sin.

The following is true of every born again believer.

Pro 4:18, But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.

So , I don’t know if it makes you a Lost Tare to be “ Fallen From Grace”,

I am very much a recipient of grace.

Paul says that if Anybody TEACHES a Different Gospel than the One He Taught—-“ Let Him Be ACCURSED”...... that is Damnation for what you do!

No; because I do not teach contrary to what Paul taught. I also read through all of the epistles once / week, 52 times / year, and I do not ever find anything in what I read that contradicts my theology.

...I don’t know.....you are in Serious Jeopardy and That I DO know!

No; you only think that.

 

[justbyfaith]

There was a situation in holy scripture wherein Paul the apostle and his companions wanted to preach the gospel to a governor of a city in Rome, Sergius Paulus; and there was a sorceror named Elymas who tried to turn the deputy away from the faith.

Paul's response:

Act 13:9, Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him,
Act 13:10, And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?

 

[marksman]

I do not believe that the "overall exegesis of scripture" is ever going to contradict what is spoken by singular passages of scripture; unless that overall exegesis excludes those passages in its affirmation.

That is right it should confirm what a verse is saying. The problem arises when a person take a single verse and claims that one verse is all that is neccesary to explain a teaching, theology or truth. There are nuances in scripture which only a thorough study can tease out and provide a solid basis for a belief.

My studying of scripture has been enhanced considerably when I started to read books that went into the background of the people or situation being written about in the scriptures. For example, I discovered the the New Testament Church came together for a meal, not a sip of wine and piece of bread. That was one of the ways they showed how much they loved each other. To make sure no one who came hungry and many did, went away hungry.