My Little Creed From the Meshiah Himself

[David in NJ]

This is my little Creed from the Gospel of Yohannei, (a.k.a. John), and following below the Creed, concerning what the following bold, plain, emphatic statements from the Meshiah compel me to logically conclude by simply believing every word.

John 5:22
22 for the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment unto the Son:

John 8:15
15 You judge after the flesh: I judge no one.

John 8:50
50 And I seek not mine own glory: there is One who seeks out and judges.

John 12:47-50
47 And if anyone hears my words, (rhema), and believes not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save-deliver the world.
48 The one rejecting me, and receiving not my words, (rhema), has One that judges him: the Logos that I have spoken, that One* (He) shall judge him in the last day.
49 For I have not spoken of myself: but the Father who sent me, He gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
50 And I know that His commandment is life eternal: whatsoever therefore I speak, even as the Father has said unto me, so I speak.

* "that One" = G1565 εκεινος ~ literally that one or that thing, which some minimalize by rendering it here as he, (while others even go so far as to omit this word entirely for rather obvious reasons).

The basic flow of the logic in the above emphatic statements of the Meshiah is easy to see:

The Father judges no one, (John 5:22).
The Father has committed all judgement unto the Son, (John 5:22).
The Meshiah himself, (the Christos, or Anointed One), judges no one, (John 8:15, John 8:50, John 12:47).
The Logos which the Meshiah has spoken: that One alone is the Judge, (John 12:48).

Therefore:

The Father is not the Judge, (John 5:22).
The Son is the only Judge, (John 5:22).
The Meshiah himself says that he is not the Judge, (John 8:15, John 8:50, John 12:47)
The Logos spoken through the Meshiah which the Father gave to him is the only Judge, (John 12:48-50).
The Meshiah or Christos, (Anointed One), is not the eternal Logos Son who is the Word of the Father.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God

The WORD is Eternal just as the FATHER is Eternal just as the HOLY SPIRIT is Eternal = Echad Elohim

“When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.
All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

 

[David in NJ]

I will add to your post the following also

Exodus 4:11And the LORD said unto him (Moses) Who hath made man's mouth?
or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?

Exodus 4:12 Now therefore ( go ) and I will be with thy mouth,
and teach thee what thou shalt say.

He was a servant to this effect also

Heb 3:5And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant,
for a testimony ( of those things ) which were to be spoken ( after )

As Moses wrote of Christ, God saying by Moses

Duet 18:18I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, ( like unto ) thee,
and will put my words ( in ) his mouth;
and he shall speak unto them all that ( I shall command him )

Likewise does Jesus say,

John 12:49 For I have ( not spoken of myself )
( but the Father ) which sent me, ( he gave me a commandment )
( what I should say, and what I should speak )

John 5:46 For ( had ye believed ) Moses, ( ye would have ) believed me:
for he wrote ( of me )

John 5:47 But if ye ( believe not ) his writings,
( how shall ye) believe my words?

As God said by Moses concerning what he would speak

Duet 18:19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will **not hearken** unto ( my words )
( which he shall speak )in my name, ** I will require it of him **

As Jesus confirms Moses words

John 12:48 ** He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words ** hath one** that judgeth him:
( the word that I have spoken ) the same shall judge him in the last day.

It is Jesus words (that he has spoken) that would judge the one who rejects him (or them)

John 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine( is not mine ) **but his** that ( sent me )

Jesus said Moses wrote of me (and in respects to these same things)

Luke 24:27 And beginning ( at Moses ) and all the prophets,
he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things ( concerning himself )

Whereas the apostles confirm the same saying,

Acts 7:37 ( This is that ) Moses, which said unto the children of Israel,
A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren,
like unto me; ( him shall ye hear)

Then Jesus gives them the words (which were given him) according to the commandment

John 17:8 For I have ( given unto them ) the words ( which thou gavest me ) and ( they have received them )
and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed ( that thou didst send me )

Does say here also

Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed ( a day ) in the which ( he will judge the world in righteousness ) by ( that man ) whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God

John 1:10 - He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him

John 1:14 - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 1:16-18 - And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace.
For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
No one(Moses) has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

 

[Muna]

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God

John 1:10 - He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him

John 1:14 - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 1:16-18 - And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace.
For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
No one(Moses) has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

You wrote in Moses next to no man for some reason and I am missing what you want to tell me in enlarging the end of John 1

 

[David in NJ]

I understand this.

What He was saying, is true because man--which in the form of Christ--He also was, was made a mere "image"...and the image form of man is cursed unto death. But He whom He is an image of--He shall not perish under the curse of death, but shall live. For this reason He also preached of those who are His. The point being, is that it is not death that brings forth life everlasting, but Life.

the Scriptures do not say that CHRIST was " a mere image"

Saying that CHRIST is a "mere image" is a heresy

Thomas said to Him, “Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?”

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

“If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.”

Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”

Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father;
so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.

how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’
Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me?

It was and is always about faith in the Word that was God in the Beginning

 

[David in NJ]

You wrote in Moses next to no man for some reason and I am missing what you want to tell me in enlarging the end of John 1

Moses did not see the FATHER and the FATHER did not speak to Moses

Moses saw and heard the pre-incarnate JESUS who is the LORD and the "IAM that IAM"

 

[Muna]

Moses did not see the FATHER and the FATHER did not speak to Moses

Moses saw and heard the pre-incarnate JESUS who is the LORD and the "IAM that IAM"

What verses do you disagree with that I posted that say something you are disagreeing with, just point them out.

I'll wait...

 

[David in NJ]

What verses do you disagree with that I posted that say something you are disagreeing with, just point them out.

I'll wait...

All the verses you posted are TRUTH

 

[Muna]

All the verses you posted are TRUTH

I know you wanted me to see something when you underlined and enlarged so I needed to ask, because sometimes people do that when they have something they feel contradicts or needs a little more help.

 

[David in NJ]

I know you wanted me to see something when you underlined and enlarged so I needed to ask, because sometimes people do that when they have something they feel contradicts or needs a little more help.

Post 24 as to ScottA

 

[ScottA]

the Scriptures do not say that CHRIST was " a mere image"

Saying that CHRIST is a "mere image" is a heresy

Thomas said to Him, “Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?”

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

“If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.”

Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”

Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father;
so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.

how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’
Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me?

It was and is always about faith in the Word that was God in the Beginning

Such are the words of many men also "created in the image of God" as Christ also was. Which they do because they read and interpret His word according to the understanding of men immersed in the ways of this world, knowing little else.

Even so, even though you have not considered the words except as you have viewed them--the words that I have explained properly from God’s perspective, are there, but were only to be fully understood just before the end.

But men believe only what they will.

 

[David in NJ]

Such are the words of many men also "created in the image of God" as Christ also was. Which they do because they read and interpret His word according to the understanding of men immersed in the ways of this world, knowing little else.

Even so, even though you have not considered the words except as you have viewed them--the words that I have explained properly from God’s perspective, are there, but were only to be fully understood just before the end.

But men believe only what they will.

ScottA i am open for what you are trying to communicate and i want you as well to SEE that which God wants us to SEE

Hebrews 1:1-4
God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;
3who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

the express image of His person = how is that "mere" ???

mere /mîr/

adjective​

1. Being nothing more than what is specified.
   "a mere child; a mere 50 cents an hour."
2. Considered apart from anything else.
   "shocked by the mere idea."
3. Small; slight.
   "could detect only the merest whisper."

 

[dak]

Wow, so much gnashing of teeth over my precious little creed from my Master.

 

[dak]

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God

So then, if you are going to capitalize Logos in your translation of John 1:1, ("Word"), then you need to do so in other places also where it is critical to the understanding of the text and the text has an impact on doctrine, like John 12:48, where the Meshiah, Anointed One, or Christos, clearly tells us that he is not the Logos. If you do not follow this principle then you are merely playing a logical fallacy game called special pleading, (regarding logos in this case).

The WORD is Eternal just as the FATHER is Eternal just as the HOLY SPIRIT is Eternal = Echad Elohim

"Echad Elohim"? I fear to even ask: if I did ask, would I be playing into your hand by opening up a can of worms? or a Pandora's box? This sounds like a leading phrase to hook me into a whole soap-box banter you might have against the Shema.

“When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.
All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

What does this have to do with the OP? or do you mean it as if a prophecy against those who do not agree with your beliefs? Are non-Trinitarians "goats on the left" in your paradigm? I am just curious: for I don't know how you mean this, or why you posted it, because it doesn't have anything to do with the OP as far as I can tell.

Finally, why were you so sad over the OP? were you actually weeping too?

 

[David in NJ]

So then, if you are going to capitalize Logos in your translation of John 1:1, ("Word"), then you need to do so in other places also where it is critical to the understanding of the text and the text has an impact on doctrine, like John 12:48, where the Meshiah, Anointed One, or Christos, clearly tells us that he is not the Logos

John 14:28

You heard Me say, ‘I am going away, and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved Me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, because the Father is greater than I.

@dak - Do you have trouble reading??? the specific word 'logos' is not in John 14:28

Let me know - thank you

 

[dak]

John 14:28

You heard Me say, ‘I am going away, and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved Me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, because the Father is greater than I.

@dak - Do you have trouble reading??? the specific word 'logos' is not in John 14:28

Let me know - thank you

Lol, please reread what I posted: I wrote John 12:48, not John 14:28! Here it is in Greek, even though it was also already in the OP, in English, which you were so sad about:

John 12:48 N/A - W/H
48 ο αθετων εμε και μη λαμβανων τα ρηματα μου εχει τον κρινοντα αυτον ο λογος ον ελαλησα εκεινος κρινει αυτον εν τη εσχατη ημερα

ο λογος -- singular, with the article, emphatic, just as in John 1:1.

You have three fingers pointing back at you and the one pointing at me is broken because you did not see what I wrote as what I actually wrote.

 

[David in NJ]

Lol, please reread what I posted: I wrote John 12:48, not John 14:28! Here it is in Greek, even though it was also already in the OP, in English, which you were so sad about:

John 12:48 N/A - W/H
48 ο αθετων εμε και μη λαμβανων τα ρηματα μου εχει τον κρινοντα αυτον ο λογος ον ελαλησα εκεινος κρινει αυτον εν τη εσχατη ημερα

ο λογος -- singular, with the article, emphatic, just as in John 1:1.

You have three fingers pointing back at you and the one pointing at me is broken because you did not see what I wrote as what I actually wrote.

No finger pointing = did not get any sleep last night

Nevertheless John 12:48 argues against your OP as does John 1:1 and the scriptures in my initial post to you.

John 12:48
My
μου (mou)
Personal / Possessive Pronoun - Genitive 1st Person Singular
Strong's Greek 1473: I, the first-person pronoun. A primary pronoun of the first person I.

words:
ῥήματά (rhēmata)
Noun - Accusative Neuter Plural
Strong's Greek 4487: From rheo; an utterance, ; by implication, a matter or topic; with a negative naught whatever.

The
ὁ (ho)
Article - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's Greek 3588: The, the definite article. Including the feminine he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the.

word
λόγος (logos)
Noun - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's Greek 3056: From lego; something said; by implication, a topic, also reasoning or motive; by extension, a computation; specially, the Divine Expression.

that
ὃν (hon)
Personal / Relative Pronoun - Accusative Masculine Singular
Strong's Greek 3739: Who, which, what, that.

I have spoken
ἐλάλησα (elalēsa)
Verb - Aorist Indicative Active - 1st Person Singular
Strong's Greek 2980: A prolonged form of an otherwise obsolete verb; to talk, i.e. Utter words.

will judge
κρινεῖ (krinei)
Verb - Future Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's Greek 2919: Properly, to distinguish, i.e. Decide; by implication, to try, condemn, punish.

 

[David in NJ]

Lol, please reread what I posted: I wrote John 12:48, not John 14:28! Here it is in Greek, even though it was also already in the OP, in English, which you were so sad about:

John 12:48 N/A - W/H
48 ο αθετων εμε και μη λαμβανων τα ρηματα μου εχει τον κρινοντα αυτον ο λογος ον ελαλησα εκεινος κρινει αυτον εν τη εσχατη ημερα

ο λογος -- singular, with the article, emphatic, just as in John 1:1.

You have three fingers pointing back at you and the one pointing at me is broken because you did not see what I wrote as what I actually wrote.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

How many times is "Word" spoken in this one direct Truth" ???

 

[ScottA]

ScottA i am open for what you are trying to communicate and i want you as well to SEE that which God wants us to SEE

Hebrews 1:1-4
God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;
3who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

the express image of His person = how is that "mere" ???

mere /mîr/

adjective​

1. Being nothing more than what is specified.
   "a mere child; a mere 50 cents an hour."
2. Considered apart from anything else.
   "shocked by the mere idea."
3. Small; slight.
   "could detect only the merest whisper."

"Mere" (image) is appropriate because men created in the image of God are far less than God by comparison. But if fully understood, created beings and this whole world, in the creation process, is a terrible departure from the greater heavenly realm of God, where darkness is also purposely manifest, existing in the very heart of every element. That is the depth to which Jesus lowered Himself, to exist in the form, not merely as flesh, but as death made manifest. Such is the world we are born into and live in.

But all--all of this world, including mankind, including Christ--is only given form by the power and light of God...which is the formation and makeup of all matter. Image by form...following "Let there be light!"

As such, even Christ had to seek again what He too had lost, even in the form of worship, as separate and needing to follow all that was required of all who exist in this fallen state. As if being lost at sea, He too longed for all that once was, and who He was before, even as if it were Him in a former life, as a mere child-like image of His former self--whom He knew gave birth--as a Father gives birth through another--to His now desperate circumstances. From which He even prayed as a Son appealing to His Father. The greatest of parables.

Far fetched--impossible? Not with God--but the Truth.

 

[JLB]

This is my little Creed from the Gospel of Yohannei, (a.k.a. John), and following below the Creed, concerning what the following bold, plain, emphatic statements from the Meshiah compel me to logically conclude by simply believing every word.

John 5:22
22 for the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment unto the Son:

John 8:15
15 You judge after the flesh: I judge no one.

John 8:50
50 And I seek not mine own glory: there is One who seeks out and judges.

John 12:47-50
47 And if anyone hears my words, (rhema), and believes not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save-deliver the world.
48 The one rejecting me, and receiving not my words, (rhema), has One that judges him: the Logos that I have spoken, that One* (He) shall judge him in the last day.
49 For I have not spoken of myself: but the Father who sent me, He gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
50 And I know that His commandment is life eternal: whatsoever therefore I speak, even as the Father has said unto me, so I speak.

* "that One" = G1565 εκεινος ~ literally that one or that thing, which some minimalize by rendering it here as he, (while others even go so far as to omit this word entirely for rather obvious reasons).

The basic flow of the logic in the above emphatic statements of the Meshiah is easy to see:

The Father judges no one, (John 5:22).
The Father has committed all judgement unto the Son, (John 5:22).
The Meshiah himself, (the Christos, or Anointed One), judges no one, (John 8:15, John 8:50, John 12:47).
The Logos which the Meshiah has spoken: that One alone is the Judge, (John 12:48).

Therefore:

The Father is not the Judge, (John 5:22).
The Son is the only Judge, (John 5:22).
The Meshiah himself says that he is not the Judge, (John 8:15, John 8:50, John 12:47)
The Logos spoken through the Meshiah which the Father gave to him is the only Judge, (John 12:48-50).
The Meshiah or Christos, (Anointed One), is not the eternal Logos Son who is the Word of the Father.

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences. 2 Corinthians 5:10-11


All Christians will be judged by Jesus Christ.

 

[David in NJ]

"Mere" (image) is appropriate because men created in the image of God are far less than God by comparison. But if fully understood, created beings and this whole world, in the creation process, is a terrible departure from the greater heavenly realm of God, where darkness is also purposely manifest, existing in the very heart of every element. That is the depth to which Jesus lowered Himself, to exist in the form, not merely as flesh, but as death made manifest. Such is the world we are born into and live in.

But all--all of this world, including mankind, including Christ--is only given form by the power and light of God...which is the formation and makeup of all matter. Image by form...following "Let there be light!"

As such, even Christ had to seek again what He too had lost, even in the form of worship, as separate and needing to follow all that was required of all who exist in this fallen state. As if being lost at sea, He too longed for all that once was, and who He was, as if it were Him in a former life, as a mere child-like image of His former self--whom He knew gave birth--as a Father gives birth through another--to His now desperate circumstances. From which He prayed as a Son appealing to His Father. The greatest of parables.

Far fetched--impossible? Not with with God--but the Truth.

thank you
i am busy today but will look at this more closely later

SHALOM ScottA