Mystery Babylon

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Illuminator

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No. That is understood. The mystery is how the divisions occurred, and how many are deceived by ministers they trust, but do not verify by Scripture.

Divisions occur simply by preaching for doctrine of Christ, what is not Scripture, but their own mind.

Deception occurs when they are believed for doctrine of Christ, and His Headship is usurped by false ministers.

The mystery also is why are there false ministers. Many and most do so ignorantly and are not become false christs to themselves. Those who have gone on so far into false ministry, that they have no excuse with God and are all cast into the same bed of Jezebel, with their loyal followers.

The errors are simple to see, when tested by what is written vs what is ministered. The mystery is when the ignorant errors become purposed deceptions: for profit and power. The power to be believed as God by the words of one's own mouth is the pride and fall of Lucifer.

The mystery will come to an end, when God calls all His elect to depart from such false ministries and be resurrected unto Himself, leaving only the fallen ministries and deceived believers behind with their own dragon full of wrath on earth, knowing that his time is short, before the Lord with His resurrected saints come in clouds out of the air to do finale battle on earth at Armageddon.
Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers. 271​
271 Origen, Hom. in Ezech. 9, 1: PG 13, 732.
 

BreadOfLife

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Peter never ministered in Rome nor to Romans in Rome: Paul did. Being ignorant of Scripture only, you are blind, and your religion uses Peter's name for the same destructive effect in which you use Jesus' name.

There have been many antichrists, and they all use the name of Jesus for effect, but do not confess Him from the heart. They are false christ, prophets, apostles, teachers, etc... that deceive the sheep who hear the name of Jesus and believe, but do not see for themselves is the doctrine accompanying His name is Scripture or not.

The first I ever heard of Sola Scriptura was from Catholics that declare their traditions of fathers was just as equally important and inspired as Scripture of God.

And so, Sola Scriptura must have been Luther's defense against Catholic dominion and endlessly erring papism, which was then degraded and condemned as heresy. The proof that the Catholic religion is just as false as the Jews religion today, is that they would condemn as heresy Scripture only: believing Scripture written by inspiration of God is the only authority for things of God, and do not include traditions and commandments of men.

You would crucify Christ afresh, if He came in the flesh to Rome to rebuke the Catholics, even as He came in the flesh to Judea to rebuke the Jews.

Scripture only means what is says: only Scripture can prove what are the things of God, and whether interpretations, teachings, doctrine, law, commandment, etc... are from God or from men, that they falsely preach them as from God.

And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so
.

That man of sin is one that sits in his own pulpit as the throne of God, preaching his own things, not Scripture, for things of God, and is therefore believed as God Himself.

When any one preaches other than Scripture, that is plainly written by God and read by all to believe, and any believe it as from God, then they are believing that false preacher as God, whereby his own word from his own mind is believed as words that proceed from the mouth of God.

As an ignorantly zealous Catholic believer in the Catholic religion, being ignorantly of the faith of Jesus by given by Scripture only, you are also therefore ignorant as well of seeing Jesus only as the true Christ, and hearing His voice only as the true Shepherd of His sheep.

You are of another fold of another christ that eats up the false bread and grain of another gospel, and believing Scripture only is anathema to you, your pope, your religion, and especially your dead and gone fathers, who will not rise again with the saints in the first resurrection.

Not if they are like what they made of you.

The brightness you have is that of an angel of light, which light in you id darkness indeed.
Your Scriptural ignorance is matched only by your historical ignorance.
Time for a Bible and History Lesson . . .

First of all - BOTH Peter and Paul ministered in Rome. This is attested to by Peter himself, who wrote about being in "Babylon" (1 Per. 5:13).
It is ALSO attested to by the writings of Early Church Fathers Dionysius of Corinth, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Eusebius, Peter of Alexandria, Lactantius, Cyril of Jerusalem and Damasus.

Finally - in his Book, The Bones of St. Peter - author John Evangelist Walsh provides painstaking archaeological details about the ossuary found underneath the main altar at St. Peter's Basilica in Rome. He details not ONLY the fact that forensic archaeologists reveal that the bones belong to an elderly man who was crucified - probably upside down, but ALSO the fact that the 1st and 2nd century graffiti found near the ossuary states that "Peter is Here".

All YOU have are angry opinions to the contrary . . .

As for your ideas about Sola Scriptura - you're ALL WET. NOWHERE does the Bible tell us that we are to look to the BIBLE as our "Sole Authority". As a matter of fact - we are told that Christ's CHURCH is our final earthly Authority (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16 John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

As for the Bereans - they had NO choice but to look at the OT Scriptures because the Church was completely NEW to them - and the NT hadn't been written and compiled yet. In fact - there was NO NT CANON for almost 400 years until it was declared by the Catholic Church at the Council of Rome in 382.

Do your homework . . .
 
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robert derrick

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According to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, the Equality Act is “about ending discrimination”; President Joe Biden agrees. That may be its intent, but its effect is to promote the most comprehensive assault on Christianity ever written into law.
EQUALITY ACT IS ANTI-CHRISTIAN – Catholic League
Nimrod was the first to force equality with one voice and language and mind.

The Civil Rights act is the corrupt parent of this 'equality act'.

Once man begins to force by law a certain conduct, apart from criminal law, upon private citizens in their private businesses and affairs, then there is no more liberty nor privacy of individual citizens.

666 compels the searing of conscience in order to participate in private enterprise and community affairs:

And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

The first 6 would be the civil rights act. The 2nd 6 would be the equality act, and the 3rd 6 would be the Participation Act: compulsory participation in sexual orientation and unnatural sex.

I.e. it's all about dominion, and the ministry of that dominion is by a spirit of whoredome: the spirit does not seek accommodation nor equality, but dominion over all, by forced participation in all of it.

The Sodomites of Sodom and of Benjamin would not allow any not to participate in their sodomy, including the angels of the Lord.

Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand.

LIve and let live within criminal bounds ended with the Forced Civil Rights Act.
 
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robert derrick

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When you deal with satans organization/system/world; you will see it categorized into one of three areas; religious, governmental, or commercial. babylon the harlot is the religious part of satans organization, Jehovah has prophesied that He will use the governmental part of satans system to crush that harlot sir. That will be a very interesting prophecy to see fulfilled. We are really shaping up for it now as much of the population is fed up with religion because of the problems that come from it. I would imagine that is not too far into the future. Out of all the things coming, that is what I want to see most as I hate babylon the great, which truly is the mother of all disgusting things as the Bible states. she is an abomination.
I don't believe God deals with gvts anymore, after He cast off national Israel. He only cares for His church by perfecting His people and converting the sinners to His faith. The Scriptures of the apostles say nothing about God raising up kings and governors etc...That was all during the old covenant. Now, we are simply to obey such gvt and not be rebellious, except when gvt becomes destructive to the faith of God.

The beast and the false prophet and Babylon are spiritual and ministerial, with purpose of the dragon to corrupt and destroy the faith of Jesus held by the saints. Satan cares not one bit for unbelievers to be forced into a false religion, like God, all he cares about is souls to destroy by unbelief. Why would he attack his own and possibly push them to conversion to Jesus Christ? They are already his.

Any secular leader or gvt that uses the tools of an antichrist, such as compelling searing of conscience to buy and sell, are only pikers playing at being antichrists. They are not the real enemy to the body of Christ, but if anything help to purify the believers, and move them to being hot rather than lukewarm for the Lord. Real antichrists make war with the saints and the elect through false doctrine and ministry: they go out from the apostles' doctrine to teach and preach as false leaders and heads of the body.

Revelation is the last book of prophecy and ministry to the saints, not to the world, even as all Scripture of God. The things written therein are to bless them that believe, read, and understand: it is the manifestation of the spirit of error and it's ministry of destruction, making war with the saints and the Lamb of God, by way of the three things of tribulation: temptation, deception, persecution.

Nothing in Revelation says anything about any secular leader, gvt, organization, business, etc..., and the only identifiable geography on earth is Jerusalem and Armageddon. Revelation shows all the deceitful and hurtful ways in which the accuser and adversary makes war with the believers, in order to defile their faith and return them back to his kingdom of darkness. He sends in his false ministers of a false christ, using Jesus' name to seduce the believers from the faith of Jesus to the faith of a false christ. They remain Christian in name only, even as them that call themselves Jews today are Israel in name only.

Why would the devil have saints killed and sent to heaven? His goal is for unbelievers to die and be judged as his own. The only reason would be to stop effective ministry of conversion of his sinners; otherwise, all he lusts to do is to pervert and corrupt them that believe. He wants to take as many with him into the lake of fire as possible.

The devil goes about like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour, not whom he may send to heaven by having them killed, certainly not whom he may convert to Jesus by bringing tribulation upon the unbeliever.

I see only 2 physical events before the Lord's return to reign on earth: the two dead witnesses in Jerusalem, where our Lord was crucified, which is that great city now spiritually called by God, Sodom and Egypt, and the gathering together of the armies at Armageddon.

Babylon is that great city of captivity, where the cast aways are held in captivity, and who need to depart out of her by repentance and faith in Jesus to be grafted in again to God's olive tree: Christians broken off by high-mindedness and transgression of unbelief: the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Them that had been inwardly circumcised, and yet now are concluded in unbelief.

The days of the last great tribulation upon the saints on earth will not be a worldwide religious attack with gvt power to enforce it. We know that there will be many on earth, after Jesus returns to destroy the gathered armies, who will be judged according to their works pertaining to the saints. They will be unbelievers who did good for God's people, who were not under the dominion and power of the dragon by way of his beast and false prophet: who are not risen with power of the dragon to deceive unbelievers, but only saints.

And the gathered armies are not against Jerusalem, but specifically to make war with the Lord and His saints, that are in the air: They will be seen rising into the air resurrected spiritual bodies, even as the two witnesses.

Why would unbelieving hate-filled people be attempting to do such a ridiculously stupid and foolish thing? The same reason the armies of Pharaoh drove down into the dry ground of the Red Sea with waters of waves standing on either side, just after the pillar of fire that blocked them was removed from their path: reprobation.

The whole earth will not be filled with such fools. The only 'extinction' taking place will be they attacking the saints and the Lamb of God openly. The rest are unbelieving bystanders, some cast off as goats, and others welcomed into the reign of Christ as sheep.
 

robert derrick

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Your Scriptural ignorance is matched only by your historical ignorance.
Time for a Bible and History Lesson . . .

First of all - BOTH Peter and Paul ministered in Rome. This is attested to by Peter himself, who wrote about being in "Babylon" (1 Per. 5:13).
It is ALSO attested to by the writings of Early Church Fathers Dionysius of Corinth, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Eusebius, Peter of Alexandria, Lactantius, Cyril of Jerusalem and Damasus.

Finally - in his Book, The Bones of St. Peter - author John Evangelist Walsh provides painstaking archaeological details about the ossuary found underneath the main altar at St. Peter's Basilica in Rome. He details not ONLY the fact that forensic archaeologists reveal that the bones belong to an elderly man who was crucified - probably upside down, but ALSO the fact that the 1st and 2nd century graffiti found near the ossuary states that "Peter is Here".

All YOU have are angry opinions to the contrary . . .

As for your ideas about Sola Scriptura - you're ALL WET. NOWHERE does the Bible tell us that we are to look to the BIBLE as our "Sole Authority". As a matter of fact - we are told that Christ's CHURCH is our final earthly Authority (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16 John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

As for the Bereans - they had NO choice but to look at the OT Scriptures because the Church was completely NEW to them - and the NT hadn't been written and compiled yet. In fact - there was NO NT CANON for almost 400 years until it was declared by the Catholic Church at the Council of Rome in 382.

Do your homework . . .
All YOU have are angry opinions to the contrary . . .

So says the one citing Rome as Babylon, and then a bunch of unknowns to the apostles, but idolized in the Catholic religion, which is only one of the harlots of their mother Babylon the Great.

Do your homework . .

And end up like you? Right.

As for the Bereans - they had NO choice but to look at the OT Scriptures because the Church was completely NEW to them - and the NT hadn't been written and compiled yet.

They had choice to read for themselves from the Scriptures they had, to see if what Paul preached out of those Scriptures, pertaining to Jesus as the Messiah, which other less noble unbelievers, such as yourself, choose not to do.

In fact - there was NO NT CANON for almost 400 years until it was declared by the Catholic Church at the Council of Rome in 382.

No canonized and perverted books of the Catholic Religion, but all the Scriptures of the prophets and apostles were in the world, kept by the faithful, since the days they were written.

1st
and 2nd century graffiti found near the ossuary states that "Peter is Here".

So now you add graffiti to your written traditions. The writings of the first fathers of your religion that first started worship of bones and relics...

NOWHERE does the Bible tell us that we are to look to the BIBLE as our
"Sole Authority"

And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

Just Scripture is holy from God, and just holy Scripture is for children made wise to salvation of Christ. Don't see any canonized books of unknowns, which would be counted as the fathers of corrupted traditions you think you are redeemed by. (1 Peter 1:18)

I know I only quoted Scripture to you, so I know you have corrupted things of your fathers to counter it.

Seriously, you are so wrapped up in your religion, that you don't even see the blindness with which you speak, which you call light and understanding, but is darkness indeed.

we are told that Christ's CHURCH is our final earthly Authority


I am Christ's church, so here is some sound advice with authority of Christ Jesus: Try reading the Bible only. Genesis to Revelation only, Sola Scriptura, and see what happens. Leave out the father stuff. Just Scripture. If you still want to believe Catholicism, fine. Otherwise, the faith of Jesus may become the only power in your heart.
 

robert derrick

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The conqueror, the beast, the false prophet, and mystery Babylon are all spiritual and ministerial: the ministry of destroying the faith of Jesus in them that believe, by dominating their faith with false doctrine of their own making, rather than being helpers of their joy.

Babylon the Great is the ministerial mother of all harlot antichrists and beasts and false prophets, apostles, teachers, etc...

They go out of the apostles doctrine in order to make themselves leaders and heads over the body of believers, rather than Jesus.

The ten kings rise up to have their one hour of power with the beast given by the dragon to deceive and make war with the saints. They make themselves kings over kings and and priests over priests to God: they are would be king of kings, tin-horn dictators over the people, but the Lamb and His faithful overcome their false doctrines and rules, because He is King of kings and Lord of lords, and His faithful only hold to His true headship.

The first beast and the 8th beast are one: the first and the last: the dragon's own false christ and lord over God's heritage, and he is of the 7 kings and heads of the body, because they are all the same: false ministers of righteousness, preaching their own righteousness for righteousness of God, with power to deceive even the elect, except they cut them short by the faith of Jesus in righteousness of God, that is confirmed by Scripture only.
 

Enoch111

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Mystery Babylon is all they that were of Israel, and are not Israel, and yet are still called Israel by men. (Rev 17:8)
That conclusion is not justified by what we see in Revelation.

Mystery Babylon is the end-time culmination of all false and idolatrous religions under the Antichrist. Idolatry originated with the tower of Babel in Babylon, and ever since all world religions have worshipped false gods and idols (including the host of heaven). When the Abomination of Desolation is put into the Holy Place, Mystery Babylon will come into effect.
 

BreadOfLife

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So says the one citing Rome as Babylon, and then a bunch of unknowns to the apostles, but idolized in the Catholic religion, which is only one of the harlots of their mother Babylon the Great.

And end up like you? Right.

They (the Bereans) had choice to read for themselves from the Scriptures they had, to see if what Paul preached out of those Scriptures, pertaining to Jesus as the Messiah, which other less noble unbelievers, such as yourself, choose not to do.

No canonized and perverted books of the Catholic Religion, but all the Scriptures of the prophets and apostles were in the world, kept by the faithful, since the days they were written.

So now you add graffiti to your written traditions. The writings of the first fathers of your religion that first started worship of bones and relics...

And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness
.

Just Scripture is holy from God, and just holy Scripture is for children made wise to salvation of Christ. Don't see any canonized books of unknowns, which would be counted as the fathers of corrupted traditions you think you are redeemed by. (1 Peter 1:18)

I know I only quoted Scripture to you, so I know you have corrupted things of your fathers to counter it.

Seriously, you are so wrapped up in your religion, that you don't even see the blindness with which you speak, which you call light and understanding, but is darkness indeed.

I am Christ's church, so here is some sound advice with authority of Christ Jesus: Try reading the Bible only. Genesis to Revelation only, Sola Scriptura, and see what happens. Leave out the father stuff. Just Scripture. If you still want to believe Catholicism, fine. Otherwise, the faith of Jesus may become the only power in your heart.
First of all - regarding the 1st and 2nd century Church Fathers - they were either students of the Apostles themselves or one generation away from knowing them.

The fact that you DON'T know that the Canon of Scripture that YOU adhere to was compiled and declared inspired by the Catholic Church speaks VOLUMES about your ignorance.

The Bereans had NO other source to go to than the OT. And contrary to what YOU claim - they didn't have the NT to go by.
In the end, they accepted a truth that was NOT in the OT Scriptures: That the man, Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah, the Son of God.

As for the false, MAN-MADE 16th century invention of Sola Scriptura - you have FAILED to show me even ONE verse of Scripture that supports this doctrine of men.

Finally - YOU are not Christ's Church. No SINGLE individual is the Church.
The Church is the BODY of Christ (Col. 1:18) and consists of all those who are Baptized into the Father, Son and Holy Spirit (Matt. 28:19-20) and are obedient to HIM by being obedient to His Church (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 20:21-23)
It is the FULLNESS of Christ (Eph. 1:22-23), the Pillar and Foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15) - it is Christ Himself (Acts 9:4-5).

As much as YOU have LIED here - I would never mistake you as being part of His Body . . .
 

Illuminator

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The Bereans had NO other source to go to than the OT. And contrary to what YOU claim - they didn't have the NT to go by.
In the end, they accepted a truth that was NOT in the OT Scriptures: That the man, Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah, the Son of God.
It was unthinkable to any Pharisee. The Bereans were touched by Paul's oral preaching, THEN they "searched the scriptures" to find what Paul was telling them. The Bereans were GREEK speaking Pharisees who searched GREEK scriptures as they did for 200 years before Christ. There was no Old Testament canon so a school of rabbis decided that only Hebrew was a worthy language to be called a divine writing. They threw the baby out with the bath water.
As for the false, MAN-MADE 16th century invention of Sola Scriptura - you have FAILED to show me even ONE verse of Scripture that supports this doctrine of men.
The standard verses begin with 1 Timothy 3:14-16; here's why that argument does not support sola scriptura.
2 Timothy 3
[14] But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, (Tradition)
knowing from whom you learned it (Magisterium)
[15] and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. (Scriptures)
[16] All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
[17] that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

Note verse 14-15. It admonishes Timothy to do three things:
  1. Remember what you have learned and firmly believed (Tradition)
  2. Know from whom you learned it (Magisterium)
  3. Know you have the Scriptures
The Bible on St. Paul's list comes in third, not first. He actually gives here the traditional Catholic teaching on the three sources of sound teaching.
In verse 15 he goes into an excursus on the Bible. This brief excursus emphasizes the value of the Bible and recommends a fourfold method of exegesis. This verse was used in the pre-Reformation Church as a proof text for the Quadriga which was the standard Catholic approach to the Bible. Still is. The Quadriga method uses the following four categories:
  • Literal/Literary (teaching) - the text as it is written
  • Analogical (reproof) - matters of faith
  • Anagogical (correction) - matters of hope/prophecy
  • Moral (training in righteousness) - matters of charity
The analogical, anagogical and moral senses of the Bible are known collectively as the spiritual senses.
The 'reformers' rejected the BIBLICAL fourfold method of exegesis in favor of a more literal approach, and ignored 2 Tim 3:16!!!
 
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robert derrick

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First of all - regarding the 1st and 2nd century Church Fathers - they were either students of the Apostles themselves or one generation away from knowing them.

The fact that you DON'T know that the Canon of Scripture that YOU adhere to was compiled and declared inspired by the Catholic Church speaks VOLUMES about your ignorance.

The Bereans had NO other source to go to than the OT. And contrary to what YOU claim - they didn't have the NT to go by.
In the end, they accepted a truth that was NOT in the OT Scriptures: That the man, Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah, the Son of God.

As for the false, MAN-MADE 16th century invention of Sola Scriptura - you have FAILED to show me even ONE verse of Scripture that supports this doctrine of men.

Finally - YOU are not Christ's Church. No SINGLE individual is the Church.
The Church is the BODY of Christ (Col. 1:18) and consists of all those who are Baptized into the Father, Son and Holy Spirit (Matt. 28:19-20) and are obedient to HIM by being obedient to His Church (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 20:21-23)
It is the FULLNESS of Christ (Eph. 1:22-23), the Pillar and Foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15) - it is Christ Himself (Acts 9:4-5).

As much as YOU have LIED here - I would never mistake you as being part of His Body . . .
The fact that you DON'T know that the Canon of Scripture that YOU adhere to was compiled and declared inspired by the Catholic Church speaks VOLUMES about your ignorance.

Ignorance of the Catholic Religion is wisdom with Scripture, and wisdom in the Catholic Religion is ignorance of Scripture.

The Bereans had NO other source to go to than the OT. And contrary to what YOU claim - they didn't have the NT to go by
.

My words:
They had choice to read for themselves from the Scriptures they had, to see if what Paul preached out of those Scriptures, pertaining to Jesus as the Messiah...

They read from the Scriptures of the old covenant, which was called Moses of old, from which also the apostles preached before any new testament writing. Jesus also reasoned out of those Scriptures with them on the road to Emmaus, concerning Himself as the Messiah that should suffer and live again.

Your homework from traditions other than the Bible makes you blind to what Scriptures says, and what readers of Scripture say about it.

As for the false, MAN-MADE 16th century invention of Sola Scriptura - you have FAILED to show me even ONE verse of Scripture that supports this doctrine of men.

My words:
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

Just Scripture is holy from God, and just holy Scripture is for children made wise to salvation of Christ. Don't see any canonized books of unknowns, which would be counted as the fathers of corrupted traditions you think you are redeemed by. (1 Peter 1:18)

This is the 2nd admonition given you, and you ignore it, and so I reject you as an heretic on this topic of Sola Scriptura. No more discussion with you on it, except you repent and respond to it.

Finally - YOU are not Christ's Church. No SINGLE individual is the Church.

Gosh, You figured that one out. Of course the sarcasm was totally missed on you. Cults truly are full of childish people with little understanding of reality. And absolutely no sense of humor.

As much as YOU have LIED here - I would never mistake you as being part of His Body . .

When a leading zealot of the Catholic Religion rejects someone as brother or sister, than that is confirmation of someone having part in the body of Christ, which is not the Catholic Religion.

By the manner in which you ignorantly try to argue things of God by books of other men, showing no comprehension of Scripture nor of peoples' writings about Scripture, I now have another Mystery of Babylon in mind:

The mystery of a light being great darkness indeed. They ever study so hard in traditions and doctrines of men, written for men, about the things of God revealed in Scripture, and are never able to come to the knowledge of the truth of God, which is in Scripture only.

The only light they see are the errors of men, that have departed from Scripture to learn and teach foolish fables and vain imaginings, so that the Scripture of the truth of God is judged inadequate, and them that read Scripture only are judged ignorant.

One man's trash is another man's treasure, and the treasure of the Catholic religion is trash indeed to God and men that believe His Word only:

Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing, And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls! For in one hour so great riches is come to nought!

Not only is the light that is seen in Mystery Babylon of such great darkness, but also the precious stones of her idolatry and doctrine of men and traditions of fathers are corrupted and moth-eaten trash indeed.

Only Scripture, Scriptura Sola, will be around long after the books of the fathers of Babylon are returned to the dust they came from.
 
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BreadOfLife

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Ignorance of the Catholic Religion is wisdom with Scripture, and wisdom in the Catholic Religion is ignorance of Scripture.
That's a snappy line - but completely EMPTY un substance.

You CANNOT refute the fact that it was the Catholic Church who compiled and declared the Canon of Scripture under the guidance of the Holy Spirit - JUST as Jesus said His Church would do (John 16:12-15).
My words:
They had choice to read for themselves from the Scriptures they had, to see if what Paul preached out of those Scriptures, pertaining to Jesus as the Messiah...

They read from the Scriptures of the old covenant, which was called Moses of old, from which also the apostles preached before any new testament writing. Jesus also reasoned out of those Scriptures with them on the road to Emmaus, concerning Himself as the Messiah that should suffer and live again.

Your homework from traditions other than the Bible makes you blind to what Scriptures says, and what readers of Scripture say about it.
And in the depths of your ignorance - you have NO idea what is in the Bible.
For your information Jesus and the NT writers ALL relied on and referenced from ORAL TRADITION - just as they did the written Word.

Observe . . .
Matt. 2:23
- the prophecy "He shall be a Nazarene" is ORAL TRADITION. It is not found in the Old Testament. This demonstrates that the apostles relied upon oral tradition and taught by oral tradition.

Matt 23:2 - Jesus relies on the ORAL TRADITION of acknowledging Moses' seat of authority (which passed from Moses to Joshua to the Sanhedrin). This is not recorded in the Old Testament.

1 Cor. 10:4 - Paul relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the rock following Moses. It is not recorded in the Old Testament. See Exod. 17:1-17 and Num. 20:2-13.

2 Timothy 3:8 - Paul relies on the ORAL TRADITION when speaking of Pharoah’s magicians, Jannes and Jambres. Their names are not recorded in the Old Testament.

Eph 5:14 - Paul relies on ORAL TRADITION to quote an early Christian hymn - "awake O sleeper rise from the dead and Christ shall give you light."

Heb. 11:37 - the author of Hebrews relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the martyrs being sawed in two. This is not recorded in the Old Testament.

Jude 9 - Jude relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the Archangel Michael's dispute with satan over Moses' body. This is not found in the Old Testament.

Jude 14-15 - Jude relies on the ORAL TRADITION of Enoch's prophecy which is not recorded in the Old Testament.

My words:
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

Just Scripture is holy from God, and just holy Scripture is for children made wise to salvation of Christ. Don't see any canonized books of unknowns, which would be counted as the fathers of corrupted traditions you think you are redeemed by. (1 Peter 1:18)

This is the 2nd admonition given you, and you ignore it, and so I reject you as an heretic on this topic of Sola Scriptura. No more discussion with you on it, except you repent and respond to it.
There is NO such thing. You cannot be a "heretic" against a completely man-made invention like Sola Scriptura.

I OPENLY challenge you to do what NO other Protestant has ever been able to do:
As a Sola Scripturist - show me the Scripture verses that describe this doctrine.

If you can't do it - then you have nullified the Word of God with your own human precepts and traditions (Mark 7:13) and will have to answer to Christ your Lord. In short - YOU will illustrate that YOU adhere to heresy . . .

Gosh, You figured that one out. Of course the sarcasm was totally missed on you. Cults truly are full of childish people with little understanding of reality. And absolutely no sense of humor.
I rake you at your word.
And if your word is manure, then I calls'em as I sees'em . . .
When a leading zealot of the Catholic Religion rejects someone as brother or sister, than that is confirmation of someone having part in the body of Christ, which is not the Catholic Religion.

By the manner in which you ignorantly try to argue things of God by books of other men, showing no comprehension of Scripture nor of peoples' writings about Scripture, I now have another Mystery of Babylon in mind:

The mystery of a light being great darkness indeed. They ever study so hard in traditions and doctrines of men, written for men, about the things of God revealed in Scripture, and are never able to come to the knowledge of the truth of God, which is in Scripture only.

The only light they see are the errors of men, that have departed from Scripture to learn and teach foolish fables and vain imaginings, so that the Scripture of the truth of God is judged inadequate, and them that read Scripture only are judged ignorant.

One man's trash is another man's treasure, and the treasure of the Catholic religion is trash indeed to God and men that believe His Word only:

Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing, And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls! For in one hour so great riches is come to nought!

Not only is the light that is seen in Mystery Babylon of such great darkness, but also the precious stones of her idolatry and doctrine of men and traditions of fathers are corrupted and moth-eaten trash indeed.

Only Scripture, Scriptura Sola, will be around long after the books of the fathers of Babylon are returned to the dust they came from.
Suuuuurrrre . . . .

That's why I've NAILED you with Scripture and history until is left spinning. Instead of actually addressing any of those points - you respond with the usual anti-Catholic manure.

Sure would be nice if you had the knowledge to actually give educated responses to my points about Sola Scriptura being completely UNSCRIPTURAL and the Canon of Scripture being introduced to the world by the Catholic Church . . .
[/QUOTE]
 

Robert Gwin

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I don't believe God deals with gvts anymore, after He cast off national Israel. He only cares for His church by perfecting His people and converting the sinners to His faith. The Scriptures of the apostles say nothing about God raising up kings and governors etc...That was all during the old covenant. Now, we are simply to obey such gvt and not be rebellious, except when gvt becomes destructive to the faith of God.

The beast and the false prophet and Babylon are spiritual and ministerial, with purpose of the dragon to corrupt and destroy the faith of Jesus held by the saints. Satan cares not one bit for unbelievers to be forced into a false religion, like God, all he cares about is souls to destroy by unbelief. Why would he attack his own and possibly push them to conversion to Jesus Christ? They are already his.

Any secular leader or gvt that uses the tools of an antichrist, such as compelling searing of conscience to buy and sell, are only pikers playing at being antichrists. They are not the real enemy to the body of Christ, but if anything help to purify the believers, and move them to being hot rather than lukewarm for the Lord. Real antichrists make war with the saints and the elect through false doctrine and ministry: they go out from the apostles' doctrine to teach and preach as false leaders and heads of the body.

Revelation is the last book of prophecy and ministry to the saints, not to the world, even as all Scripture of God. The things written therein are to bless them that believe, read, and understand: it is the manifestation of the spirit of error and it's ministry of destruction, making war with the saints and the Lamb of God, by way of the three things of tribulation: temptation, deception, persecution.

Nothing in Revelation says anything about any secular leader, gvt, organization, business, etc..., and the only identifiable geography on earth is Jerusalem and Armageddon. Revelation shows all the deceitful and hurtful ways in which the accuser and adversary makes war with the believers, in order to defile their faith and return them back to his kingdom of darkness. He sends in his false ministers of a false christ, using Jesus' name to seduce the believers from the faith of Jesus to the faith of a false christ. They remain Christian in name only, even as them that call themselves Jews today are Israel in name only.

Why would the devil have saints killed and sent to heaven? His goal is for unbelievers to die and be judged as his own. The only reason would be to stop effective ministry of conversion of his sinners; otherwise, all he lusts to do is to pervert and corrupt them that believe. He wants to take as many with him into the lake of fire as possible.

The devil goes about like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour, not whom he may send to heaven by having them killed, certainly not whom he may convert to Jesus by bringing tribulation upon the unbeliever.

I see only 2 physical events before the Lord's return to reign on earth: the two dead witnesses in Jerusalem, where our Lord was crucified, which is that great city now spiritually called by God, Sodom and Egypt, and the gathering together of the armies at Armageddon.

Babylon is that great city of captivity, where the cast aways are held in captivity, and who need to depart out of her by repentance and faith in Jesus to be grafted in again to God's olive tree: Christians broken off by high-mindedness and transgression of unbelief: the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Them that had been inwardly circumcised, and yet now are concluded in unbelief.

The days of the last great tribulation upon the saints on earth will not be a worldwide religious attack with gvt power to enforce it. We know that there will be many on earth, after Jesus returns to destroy the gathered armies, who will be judged according to their works pertaining to the saints. They will be unbelievers who did good for God's people, who were not under the dominion and power of the dragon by way of his beast and false prophet: who are not risen with power of the dragon to deceive unbelievers, but only saints.

And the gathered armies are not against Jerusalem, but specifically to make war with the Lord and His saints, that are in the air: They will be seen rising into the air resurrected spiritual bodies, even as the two witnesses.

Why would unbelieving hate-filled people be attempting to do such a ridiculously stupid and foolish thing? The same reason the armies of Pharaoh drove down into the dry ground of the Red Sea with waters of waves standing on either side, just after the pillar of fire that blocked them was removed from their path: reprobation.

The whole earth will not be filled with such fools. The only 'extinction' taking place will be they attacking the saints and the Lamb of God openly. The rest are unbelieving bystanders, some cast off as goats, and others welcomed into the reign of Christ as sheep.

We believe that Romans 13 will be in force until the return of Jesus Rob, at which time he will remove all existing Kingdoms. It is our understanding that all of satans organization can be lumped into three divisions; governmental (beasts/kings), religious (all faiths that are not the one faith), and commercial (the entire business faction of the earth). All Christians seek God's Kingdom first, that is the government in which their allegiance lies, but until Jehovah sends His forces to remove them, we believe that as long as they do not require us to disobey God, we are to obey them. Not doing so would be taking a stand against Jehovah's arrangement in our eyes.
 

robert derrick

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We believe that Romans 13 will be in force until the return of Jesus Rob, at which time he will remove all existing Kingdoms. It is our understanding that all of satans organization can be lumped into three divisions; governmental (beasts/kings), religious (all faiths that are not the one faith), and commercial (the entire business faction of the earth). All Christians seek God's Kingdom first, that is the government in which their allegiance lies, but until Jehovah sends His forces to remove them, we believe that as long as they do not require us to disobey God, we are to obey them. Not doing so would be taking a stand against Jehovah's arrangement in our eyes.
we believe that as long as they do not require us to disobey God, we are to obey them.

Therefore you confirm Romans 13:1-7 cannot possibly be human gvt apart from God, because they do not allow for any disobedience, but are thjem which watch over our souls (Heb 13:17)

Let every soul be subject to...

It is ministers of Christ who turn from being helpers of the believers' joy to being dominators and lords over God's heritage. They abuse God's church government. They corrupt the pure religion of Jesus Christ. They make merchandise of the sheep:

Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come. And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more: The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls...and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

What chariots are there today being merchandise of any city, other than Hollywood? Therefore, the merchandise is of souls by means of temptations and allurements and deceitfulness of false riches: the corrupt teachings and traditions of false ministers:

Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.

God does not condemn nations and cities of man becoming rich with worldwide commercial trade, such commerce is a blessing to man. It will be even more a blessing, when Christ reigns over the earth.

Therefore, you miss the spiritual teaching of Revelation by thinking in carnal terms: Revelation is the manifestation of the spirit of error and the mystery of iniquity openly practised in the ministry of of the saints, and when they are revealed to us in such ministry,. we are not to partake of her goods anymore, but to depart and come out from among them, even as we do from the world of iniquity, which they have made for themselves out of the ministry of Christ by a lying tongue and great mouth that speaks great things about God in Jesus' name, while turning them into blasphemies against God for their own purposes.

God in Scripture never warns His people about any gvt of man, nor any normal commerce and practice therein, wherein many may be made wealthy, including His people. What He does warn His people against is them that once knew God but turned the truth of God into a lie, so that they would seduce even the elect if possible.

The commerce of the world and gvt of man were not made by the devil. The devil has made absolutely nothing in this world but a lie, and by such lies he corrupts all things good and clean of themselves. Jesus is the Maker of all things in this world, and nothing was made without Him. (John 1)
 

robert derrick

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Rev 9 and the faces of men:
And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men. And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions. And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.

These are the charioteers of Rev 18, that traffic in souls of men. These are Babylon's harlots running to battle and to make war with the saints and Lamb of God.

They have the hair of women and faces of men: false apostles, lying apostles, apostolic warriors to deceive, seduce, and destroy the sheep in their fornications and drunkenness of false ministry.

They have the long hair of adulteress ministries covering their heads. Even as it is a shame for men to have long hair, so it is a blasphemy against God for ministers to have their heads covered in their own long locks of rules, commandments, and teachings for doctrine of Christ.

They are the mighty Samsons of false ministry to the saints in Christ Jesus, and they sit in their pulpits as God Himself over the people that believe and obey them as head, rather than holding only to the true Head and Saviour of the body, Jesus Christ.

Revelation is all the manifestation of every lying spirit that ever came into the Israel of God and body of Christ to corrupt and to destroy the faithful, if possible.
 

robert derrick

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That's a snappy line - but completely EMPTY un substance.

You CANNOT refute the fact that it was the Catholic Church who compiled and declared the Canon of Scripture under the guidance of the Holy Spirit - JUST as Jesus said His Church would do (John 16:12-15).

And in the depths of your ignorance - you have NO idea what is in the Bible.
For your information Jesus and the NT writers ALL relied on and referenced from ORAL TRADITION - just as they did the written Word.

Observe . . .
Matt. 2:23
- the prophecy "He shall be a Nazarene" is ORAL TRADITION. It is not found in the Old Testament. This demonstrates that the apostles relied upon oral tradition and taught by oral tradition.

Matt 23:2 - Jesus relies on the ORAL TRADITION of acknowledging Moses' seat of authority (which passed from Moses to Joshua to the Sanhedrin). This is not recorded in the Old Testament.

1 Cor. 10:4 - Paul relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the rock following Moses. It is not recorded in the Old Testament. See Exod. 17:1-17 and Num. 20:2-13.

2 Timothy 3:8 - Paul relies on the ORAL TRADITION when speaking of Pharoah’s magicians, Jannes and Jambres. Their names are not recorded in the Old Testament.

Eph 5:14 - Paul relies on ORAL TRADITION to quote an early Christian hymn - "awake O sleeper rise from the dead and Christ shall give you light."

Heb. 11:37 - the author of Hebrews relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the martyrs being sawed in two. This is not recorded in the Old Testament.

Jude 9 - Jude relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the Archangel Michael's dispute with satan over Moses' body. This is not found in the Old Testament.

Jude 14-15 - Jude relies on the ORAL TRADITION of Enoch's prophecy which is not recorded in the Old Testament.


There is NO such thing. You cannot be a "heretic" against a completely man-made invention like Sola Scriptura.

I OPENLY challenge you to do what NO other Protestant has ever been able to do:
As a Sola Scripturist - show me the Scripture verses that describe this doctrine.

If you can't do it - then you have nullified the Word of God with your own human precepts and traditions (Mark 7:13) and will have to answer to Christ your Lord. In short - YOU will illustrate that YOU adhere to heresy . . .


I rake you at your word.
And if your word is manure, then I calls'em as I sees'em . . .

Suuuuurrrre . . . .

That's why I've NAILED you with Scripture and history until is left spinning. Instead of actually addressing any of those points - you respond with the usual anti-Catholic manure.

Sure would be nice if you had the knowledge to actually give educated responses to my points about Sola Scriptura being completely UNSCRIPTURAL and the Canon of Scripture being introduced to the world by the Catholic Church . . .
[/QUOTE]
Your point of oral traditions are good. However, your effort to use them as proof of oral tradition to be taken for Scripture is ignorantly made:

You are quoting Scripture. Why? Rejecting Sola Scriptura by definition needs no Scripture to quote as proof of your traditions.

Those oral traditions you quote from Scripture became Scripture, so that you can quote them. They became Scripture, and therefore true, when they were written down as Scripture.

And so, why are you quoting Scripture? You have your traditions apart from Scripture.

Your religion's use of oral traditions to be used as authority of God alongside Scripture, where no Scripture confirms them, is false and self-defeating: If Scripture is not all that is necessary to know the truth of God, then why use Scripture to try and prove the things of God from your traditions, that are nowhere written in nor supported by Scripture.

You are being Sola Scriptura in your effort to use Scripture to prove your traditions, confirming Sola Scriptura remains the Sola Authoritata of all things of God: why do you bother with Scripture to prove anything of God, which you believe your traditions fulfill?

You have your traditions that you rely on, and your religion to worship in, and no Scripture is necessary for it. Why do you need Scripture at all, when you have traditions that contradict Scripture? And if you insist those traditions do not contradict but are indeed verified by Scripture, then you confirm Scripture is necessary to prove all things of God and religion and worship as true, including your traditions.

As in all cults formed out of the true religion of God found in Scripture only, you are a childish people, who have thrown out all intelligent authority, to be left with nothing but endlessly learned intellectualized arguments and traditions, that have no grounding in truth of Scripture. It is the same kind of intellectual prowess with which Lucifer deceives the foolish.
 

robert derrick

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That's a snappy line - but completely EMPTY un substance.

You CANNOT refute the fact that it was the Catholic Church who compiled and declared the Canon of Scripture under the guidance of the Holy Spirit - JUST as Jesus said His Church would do (John 16:12-15).

And in the depths of your ignorance - you have NO idea what is in the Bible.
For your information Jesus and the NT writers ALL relied on and referenced from ORAL TRADITION - just as they did the written Word.

Observe . . .
Matt. 2:23
- the prophecy "He shall be a Nazarene" is ORAL TRADITION. It is not found in the Old Testament. This demonstrates that the apostles relied upon oral tradition and taught by oral tradition.

Matt 23:2 - Jesus relies on the ORAL TRADITION of acknowledging Moses' seat of authority (which passed from Moses to Joshua to the Sanhedrin). This is not recorded in the Old Testament.

1 Cor. 10:4 - Paul relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the rock following Moses. It is not recorded in the Old Testament. See Exod. 17:1-17 and Num. 20:2-13.

2 Timothy 3:8 - Paul relies on the ORAL TRADITION when speaking of Pharoah’s magicians, Jannes and Jambres. Their names are not recorded in the Old Testament.

Eph 5:14 - Paul relies on ORAL TRADITION to quote an early Christian hymn - "awake O sleeper rise from the dead and Christ shall give you light."

Heb. 11:37 - the author of Hebrews relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the martyrs being sawed in two. This is not recorded in the Old Testament.

Jude 9 - Jude relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the Archangel Michael's dispute with satan over Moses' body. This is not found in the Old Testament.

Jude 14-15 - Jude relies on the ORAL TRADITION of Enoch's prophecy which is not recorded in the Old Testament.


There is NO such thing. You cannot be a "heretic" against a completely man-made invention like Sola Scriptura.

I OPENLY challenge you to do what NO other Protestant has ever been able to do:
As a Sola Scripturist - show me the Scripture verses that describe this doctrine.

If you can't do it - then you have nullified the Word of God with your own human precepts and traditions (Mark 7:13) and will have to answer to Christ your Lord. In short - YOU will illustrate that YOU adhere to heresy . . .


I rake you at your word.
And if your word is manure, then I calls'em as I sees'em . . .

Suuuuurrrre . . . .

That's why I've NAILED you with Scripture and history until is left spinning. Instead of actually addressing any of those points - you respond with the usual anti-Catholic manure.

Sure would be nice if you had the knowledge to actually give educated responses to my points about Sola Scriptura being completely UNSCRIPTURAL and the Canon of Scripture being introduced to the world by the Catholic Church . . .
[/QUOTE]
I OPENLY challenge you to do what NO other Protestant has ever been able to do: As a Sola Scripturist - show me the Scripture verses that describe this doctrine.

As I said before, you are a heretic in this, because I have already offered Scripture to prove it, and your reject it out of hand, therefore I reject any further vain effort in offering Scriptural proof of Sola Scriptura.

And why do you even demand such Scripture to prove Sola Scriptura, when the fact of rejecting Sola Scriptura as proof of things of God, is to reject the necessity of Scripture to prove things of God.

Your rejection of Sola Scriptura needs no Scripture to confirm your traditions, because you reject Scripture as the sole and final authority in all matters of God.

1. If any truly rejects Sola Scriptura, and holds to traditions not written Scripture, then Scripture is not necessary to hold them.

2. If any claims their traditions are proven by Scripture, then they confirm Sola Scriptura: the necessity of Scripture to prove their traditions, that are not written therein.

No one can be both 1 and 2. You are trying to be both, and so are contradicting your own stated belief. Your mind has been emptied of any intelligent logic, by the one who emptied himself of any such intelligence, when he by pride rose up in himself to be like God. Now all he has is intellectualized deceit, foolishness, and lies, which you have abundantly swallowed.

You are full of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, to be unto yourself as a god, to hold to your own traditions, rather than Scripture of God only.

Unless, of course, you believe Scripture is necessary to prove all things, both written and oral, as of God, which of course is Sola Scriptura: the only authority of things of God, given by God to mankind for His true worship and pure religion of service to Himself.

And so once simple questions remains: do you truly reject Sola Scriptura? Do you need Scripture to prove what you believe and the traditions you hold to? Is Scripture therefore the sole authority that proves all things of God? I.e. if it's not Scripture, then it's not God.

Yes or No?

(P.s. anyone who does not answer a simple yes/no question with a simple yes/no, is proven deceitful.)
 

Robert Gwin

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we believe that as long as they do not require us to disobey God, we are to obey them.

Therefore you confirm Romans 13:1-7 cannot possibly be human gvt apart from God, because they do not allow for any disobedience, but are thjem which watch over our souls (Heb 13:17)

Let every soul be subject to...

It is ministers of Christ who turn from being helpers of the believers' joy to being dominators and lords over God's heritage. They abuse God's church government. They corrupt the pure religion of Jesus Christ. They make merchandise of the sheep:

Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come. And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more: The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls...and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

What chariots are there today being merchandise of any city, other than Hollywood? Therefore, the merchandise is of souls by means of temptations and allurements and deceitfulness of false riches: the corrupt teachings and traditions of false ministers:

Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.

God does not condemn nations and cities of man becoming rich with worldwide commercial trade, such commerce is a blessing to man. It will be even more a blessing, when Christ reigns over the earth.

Therefore, you miss the spiritual teaching of Revelation by thinking in carnal terms: Revelation is the manifestation of the spirit of error and the mystery of iniquity openly practised in the ministry of of the saints, and when they are revealed to us in such ministry,. we are not to partake of her goods anymore, but to depart and come out from among them, even as we do from the world of iniquity, which they have made for themselves out of the ministry of Christ by a lying tongue and great mouth that speaks great things about God in Jesus' name, while turning them into blasphemies against God for their own purposes.

God in Scripture never warns His people about any gvt of man, nor any normal commerce and practice therein, wherein many may be made wealthy, including His people. What He does warn His people against is them that once knew God but turned the truth of God into a lie, so that they would seduce even the elect if possible.

The commerce of the world and gvt of man were not made by the devil. The devil has made absolutely nothing in this world but a lie, and by such lies he corrupts all things good and clean of themselves. Jesus is the Maker of all things in this world, and nothing was made without Him. (John 1)

Can you simplify your point Rob, I am not sure I understand what you are saying.
 

BreadOfLife

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Your point of oral traditions are good. However, your effort to use them as proof of oral tradition to be taken for Scripture is ignorantly made:

You are quoting Scripture. Why? Rejecting Sola Scriptura by definition needs no Scripture to quote as proof of your traditions.

Those oral traditions you quote from Scripture became Scripture, so that you can quote them. They became Scripture, and therefore true, when they were written down as Scripture.

And so, why are you quoting Scripture? You have your traditions apart from Scripture.

Your religion's use of oral traditions to be used as authority of God alongside Scripture, where no Scripture confirms them, is false and self-defeating: If Scripture is not all that is necessary to know the truth of God, then why use Scripture to try and prove the things of God from your traditions, that are nowhere written in nor supported by Scripture.

You are being Sola Scriptura in your effort to use Scripture to prove your traditions, confirming Sola Scriptura remains the Sola Authoritata of all things of God: why do you bother with Scripture to prove anything of God, which you believe your traditions fulfill?

You have your traditions that you rely on, and your religion to worship in, and no Scripture is necessary for it. Why do you need Scripture at all, when you have traditions that contradict Scripture? And if you insist those traditions do not contradict but are indeed verified by Scripture, then you confirm Scripture is necessary to prove all things of God and religion and worship as true, including your traditions.

As in all cults formed out of the true religion of God found in Scripture only, you are a childish people, who have thrown out all intelligent authority, to be left with nothing but endlessly learned intellectualized arguments and traditions, that have no grounding in truth of Scripture. It is the same kind of intellectual prowess with which Lucifer deceives the foolish.[/QUOTE]
This is an asinine argument.

I refute YOUR doctrine by using YOUR own criteria - your "Sole" Authority - and you have a problem with it??
If I refuted it using Sacred Tradition - you would completely dismiss it "Catholic" teaching - so I used the very Scriptures that YOU purport to be our "Sole" Authority to show you that those Scriptures prove you wrong.

Also - the Scriptures that YOU put so much credence in as your "Sole" Authority were compiled and declared inspired by the very Church that YOU have condemned repeatedly on this thread. In other words - the written Word of God was revealed to the Catholic Church - who declared it to the world as a Sacred TRADITION.

This can ONLY mean one of TWO things:
a. You are a complete hypocrite
b.
You're not that bright

Take your pick . . .