Marymog
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Ummmm.....Are you not trusting in yourself that you are right? So how can you say that you "only trust God and His Word"? That makes no sense!
Mystery Babylon
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Are you not trusting in yourself that you are right?
I am trusting in the Scriptures as true of God, and so my faith is that of Jesus, and obedience to His Word and will only.
I must allow the Scriptures to correct my thinking, change my mind, bring me to repentance and surety in the faith to do good and not evil, as well as gladly receiving good instruction of the Scripture from others.
I do not blindly believe and obey what men say, just because they are 'my leaders' to be hearkened to as Sacred as Scripture itself, especially when their 'Sacred' traditions are not confirmed by Scripture.
That makes no sense!
Not to you, because not putting your trust in men makes no sense to you.
Therefore, you have no concept for putting your trust in God and His written Word as the only means of being led of the Spirit and guided into the truth of Christ, and knowing the difference between good and evil according to His Word.
You are not strong in His Word, and therefore not strong against the devil, because you rely on what men say, instead of only what God says:
I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.
It's just the way it is, and so you can believe and do what you want with your own mind, heart, and soul, and I will do the same for mine.
And each one of us will stand before God to answer for ourselves, and we will not be able to point fingers at others for 'bad' leadership.
One thing is for sure, I will not be blindly following blind guides into a ditch, while thinking the whole time I am dutifully trusting in 'my leaders'.
Bottom line: If you believe what you are led to believe and do, that does not conform to Scriptural truth. You are not wise in the holy Scriptures unto salvation. (2 Tim 3:15)
You will notice I always provide Scripture for all I believe and say and do. You provide only a learned tradition and carnal reasoning of men.
Such 'Sacred' traditions outside of Scripture do not save, neither do they excuse in the judgment.
Marymog
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Hey Robert. Good morning.
Can you not see the folly of your theory?
When it comes to knowing the Truth of Scripture you say you do not blindly believe and obey what other men say and that you allow Scripture to correct your thinking, change your mind and bring you to repentance. But THEN you say that you will gladly receive good instruction of the Scripture from others. Let me guess. YOU know when you have received good instruction from others. YOU decide what good instruction is even when you have already admitted that you can “change your mind” about Scripture. In summary you believe and obey what you teach yourself.
The biggest question I have for you is who is twisting Scripture the 1st time you read it? I mean after all if you end up changing your mind the 2nd or 3rd time you read it or change your mind when you get “good instruction from others” that means it had to have been twisted the 1st time. Right? Is that Satan or God twisting it? (2 Peter 3:16)
Obviously you can’t say its God twisting it for you on the 1st reading so it must be satan twisting it. So how do you know when it is no longer satan twisting it and God has finally intervened and given you the right interpretation of His Word?
Curious Mary
Marymog
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Hi Robert,
First off you do know that the letter to Timothy was meant for Timothy and not for you or me or any other Christian? Paul is telling Timothy that from childhood that HE has known the sacred writings that are able to instruct HIM for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. It is a pastoral letter. So it seems to this gal that YOU are not wise in the holy Scripture.
Second off you are putting trust in YOU and you are a man so you are putting trust in a man which is YOU. Can you not see the folly of your theory?
Mary
Let's try this, and then I will respond to your latest challenge, which is a reasonable one:
There are false christs, teachers, apostles, etc... that we are warned about in Scripture, and they have been around since the days of the apostles.
How do you know which is which: a good teacher of the gospel of Christ, or a false one?
And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
How do you know you are hearing the voice of the true Shepherd of that of a stranger?
First off you do know that the letter to Timothy was meant for Timothy and not for you or me or any other Christian?
Therefore, none of the Bible is written for you, because none of it was written to you.
Which of course is a very false and pernicious lie:
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.
All Scripture is written for our instruction of God. Not just some. Not just parts, that some 'leader' tells us.
The words of the Lord given to the children of Israel from the mount were written for our instruction also, not just for that physical people.
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
One of your own believes as you, and so rejected the promise of the Scripture, that the Spirit of truth would be dwelling in us, to guide us into all truth:
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. (John 14:17)
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. (John 16:13)
And so, do you say this promise was only for the apostles? Is it extended to their 'successors'? But not for you?
Marymog
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It is extended to their successors. Who are their successors? They are the elders or leaders of The Church. How can YOU have the Truth and Martin Luther have the Truth and Marymog and the Baptist and Mormons etc. etc all have the Truth when all our Truths are different? Can you not see the folly of your theory?
Marymog
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You ask how do I know so I will tell you. It’s simple. I follow The Church which is the pillar and foundation of Truth. For you see Robert, The Church is not an individual person. You have made yourself The Church when you are only really a member of it. I believe The Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth. You believe you are!
Can you not see the folly of your rejecting the Spirit of truth for yourself, and leaving it to others to tell you what to believe?
There are no different 'truths' of God.
There is one truth and one faith of God, and it is written in all the scriptures, and he now by the blood of Jesus on the cross, sends the Spirit of truth into the hearts of them that believe His Word, to guide them into all truth.
You have rejected this for yourself, because you have been wickedly taught not to believe it, along with rejecting the authority of scripture to reveal that truth, which therefore leaves you utterly and hopelessly without knowledge of the truth of Scripture.
Instead, you have outside traditions for you to believe, that are lies against Scripture, which are given you for the sole purpose of leading you away from the true Shepherd of our souls, to false shepherds and hirelings, only wishing to use you for their own benefit of power over you.
That is your choice.
For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
I am a member of the body of Christ and in the church of God, and I have given you many Scriptures, and you believe neither me nor them.
Therefore, you do make decisions on who is teaching truth of God and who is a false teacher.
But your decision is not based upon scriptures, but solely upon what you have been instructed to believe without Scripture.
You choose your church's own traditions, and so be it.
But in the day when every man's secrets will be judged by the gospel that Paul preached according to the Scriptures (Rom 2:16), neither that church nor those traditions will be there for you:
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Men's traditions are not Jesus' words, but His words are found in Scripture only.
His word which you have thus far rejected for yourself, because you have been wickedly taught not to believe them as spoken by Jesus for your own soul's sake:
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth.
He shall glorify me.
Your church's traditions glorify your religion's founders. Scripture only glorifies Jesus. That is why your leaders diminish Scripture, that they may magnify their traditions over you.
It is extended to their successors.
The scriptures say nothing of extending to successors. To be true to your doctrine, there are no successors to this promise of the spirit of truth.
But you have your leaders that like to call themselves their successors.
Who are their successors?
1.
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. (Acts 2:38-39)
The promise of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth, is to all children that believe.
The children of promise are all the children of God by faith (Rom 9:8)(Gal 4:28)
Therefore, by Scripture all the believers are inheritors of the promise of the Spirit of truth, to be born again thereby, and led into all truth.
And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end: That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises. (Heb 6)
Those who don't believe the scriptures reject this truth.
2.
For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel. (1 Cor 4:15)
The children of the apostles are the successors of the apostles. They are the inheritors of the doctrine of the apostles and the gospel of Christ preached by the apostles according to the Scriptures.
All Scriptures were written for their admonition and instruction in the faith and righteousness of God, and the comfort of hope in the Scriptures and the fulfillment of the promise of God.
Them that reject the doctrine and gospel of the apostles according to the scriptures, reject being their children by that gospel and inheritors of that faith of Jesus they preached.
They choose instead for themselves traditions of men, that inherit nothing of God's Word nor succeed in anything of God's apostleship.
Wicked men have persuaded you to reject the promise of God, that you by right ought to have by believing Jesus is the Christ.
And instead, they claim it for themselves only at your expense, and they don't even have it.
I find God wanting me to pray for your soul. A rare thing for me. And the only time on this site.
Marymog
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Thanks for the question Robert.
One becomes a successor of the apostles the biblical way. The first recorded successor to an apostle and how that person (Matthias) was chosen was in Acts 20-26. In a pastoral letter from Paul to Timothy there is a passage (2 Tim. 2:2) in which Paul refers to the first three generations of apostolic succession—his own generation, Timothy’s generation, and the generation Timothy will teach. In Titus 1:5 Paul instructs a student of his (Titus) to appoint elders in every town, as I directed you.
So to put it all in context the Apostles appointed men to succeed them who then appointed other men who were then to appoint other men who were then to appoint other men etc etc.
Biblical Mary
Marymog
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Hey Robert,
You should learn Scripture before commenting on it.
The first recorded successor to an apostle and how that person (Matthias) was chosen was in Acts 20-26. In a pastoral letter from Paul to Timothy there is a passage (2 Tim. 2:2) in which Paul refers to the first three generations of apostolic succession—his own generation, Timothy’s generation, and the generation Timothy will teach. In Titus 1:5 Paul instructs a student of his (Titus) to "appoint elders in every town, as I directed you."
Bible Study Mary
That is for the offices of the church, which are laid out in Scripture.
What Scriptures speak of a 'successor' to the apostles?
I see no Scripture saying anything of specific 'successors' to the apostles, which would result in having 'apostolic authority'.
The authority of the apostles was God's to write Scripture, even as the prophets. There are no more apostles writing Scripture, because Scripture was concluded with God at the last 'Amen' of Revelation.
Therefore, those claiming 'apostolic authority' are claiming authority of God to write Scripture, which is adding to the Scriptures of God, already written and finished in the world: they are therefore false apostles. (2 Cor 11:13)
We know a false apostle when anyone preaches anything, as with authority of God, that is not found in Scripture: they are presuming to give new Scripture with authority of God.
Such 'apostles' have departed from the apostles' doctrine found in Scripture, to go out and preach their own doctrine and gospel in the name of Jesus:
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
Those who do not submit themselves to the doctrine of Christ as given in Scripture by His apostles, cannot possibly be their 'successors', but rather are transforming themselves into apostles to preach their own gospel and found their own religion 'in the name of Jesus', but without His authority.
The only 'apostolic authority' is the Scriptures. Anyone who preaches the gospel as the apostles did, according to the Scriptures (1 Cor 15:3-4), is not only preaching with 'apostolic authority', but is preaching with the authority of God Himself, because he is preaching God's Word by authority of His Scriptures.
I see no Scriptures stating specific apostolic succession of any particular individual. Timothy was not called the 'successor' of Paul. He was never referred to in Scripture as Christ's 'next apostle' after Paul.
and the generation Timothy will teach....According to Scriptures.
There are continued leaders in the church who teach what the Apostles taught according to the Scriptures.
There is no apostolic successor with apostolic authority to speak for God outside of Scripture, or to add Scripture to what is already written.
And he is a false leader that does so, not a good one as Paul exhorted Timothy to be.
There are no 'words' of God floating around in the air out there, that Paul preached and taught and was not written in Scripture, but were 'secretly' passed down by word of mouth through apostolic 'successors'.
There are no words, doctrines, revelations, nor prophecies of God, that do not comply with Scriptural proof.
There are plenty traditions of men, however Sacred, but they are not authoritative truth of God, and are not to be taught as such.
People are free to believe whatever they want, but only that which is proven by Scripture can be taught as the Word of God.
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