Need some help on this verse...binding things on earth

[amadeus]

i completely agree, and i do not blame the sellers even a little bit. Many pastors are completely aware of the dichotomy, and hope to impart some truth over time, or etc. Plenty of pastors are preaching grace now, too

The problem for pastors/ministers who are aware and hope by compromising a little to win a few is that it is not the pastor who wins souls by his own efforts alone but God who uses the efforts of the minister to accomplish His purpose. If we have watered down God's message purposes for the even what we believe are the best of reasons how sympathetic is God likely to be toward us? Teaching the wrong thing out of ignorance is one thing, but doing it knowingly because we think we can do it better than God is quite another.

 

[Helen]

PS: Do you know where there are any other interesting bible forums?

I'm afraid I do not. ( know any other good forums)
I have been on forums for about 15 years now...been in and out of a few of them. I came back to this one after a number of years. Believe it or not, it is better now than it used to be.
I hate to see you go...that is the problem...many good people join,( one at a time) then they get discouraged and drift away again.....
NOW if everyone STAYED :) ...it would be a very good Forum haha!! Sigh!

Many of us will miss you. But I do understand...twice in the last six months I have been on the edge of drifting off myself. Hopefully you will "check back" often.
Bless you....Helen.

 

[twinc]

The problem for pastors/ministers who are aware and hope by compromising a little to win a few is that it is not the pastor who wins souls by his own efforts alone but God who uses the efforts of the minister to accomplish His purpose. If we have watered down God's message purposes for the even what we believe are the best of reasons how sympathetic is God likely to be toward us? Teaching the wrong thing out of ignorance is one thing, but doing it knowingly because we think we can do it better than God is quite another.

at last sense - can not agree more - greater love has no man than he who lays down his likes - twinc

 

[Richard_oti]

yes, this is a very important point imo. One can be influenced by information, whether it is true or not. The first to tell his side in a matter seems correct, until another comes and examines him

And human nature being what it is, most believe that which they hear first, and are inclined to dismiss that which comes later as less than the former.

Took me a while to weed out some things. Best worst thing that ever happened to me was when I came to realize a number of issues and my "beliefs" all came tumbling down. After a taking a year off, I started to slowly rebuild, and even then, it took some weeding out. Given my propensity to read and consider multiple sources / POVs, I must question certain aspects of myself.

 

[bbyrd009]

Uh.......I believe this was 009s last response to satan being our fleshly nature

hmm, my meaning there was like "God creates evil, yes, but God also created us." Or iow where that evil comes from is occluded; i guess bc ppl need a scapegoat, and cannot imagine themselves as evil, at least...until they can

Not that it matters, we can only see what God reveals.

ha well, scapegoat and Nehushtan are all there in the Book, right; these are concepts, not just abstract things, once you can see them.

 

[bbyrd009]

I agree with bbyrd009's earlier post...Satan is a tool in God's hand to test , mature and even correct His people...we see it very clearly in the OT.

"pleased to meet you" lol, i agree with Jim wadr. When you stop sinning, satan is "bound," not that i go around counseling ppl to "stop sinning." "Start channelling Christ" is a better way imo

 

[bbyrd009]

If we have watered down God's message purposes for the even what we believe are the best of reasons how sympathetic is God likely to be toward us? Teaching the wrong thing out of ignorance is one thing, but doing it knowingly because we think we can do it better than God is quite another.

i guess most pastors slide into the model a step at a time, and don't realize where they are until they get there, like most of us do. Might be easy to condemn them for this, but then there is no other path to becoming an Ordained Pastor, i guess, and we naturally seek the "ordained" part, right, especially when we are young, on-fire-type seekers. So pastors are learning on the fly, too; at least what most ppl would define as pastors, i don't think of them as pastors anymore, but just fellow seekers. At least until they get defrocked lol; now you maybe got a pastor.

 

[bbyrd009]

meanwhile imo, the model we have is prolly the perfect model, as it reps where we are in our hearts right now collectively. I mean, could you imagine having that job? A job herding spiritual cats? Believing in a vengeful God is not the best perspective, certainly; but fear of the Lord is the beginning, right. I learned a lot of stuff from pastors, even if i had to unlearn a lot of it--such is the nature of learning truth i guess

 

[Helen]

meanwhile imo, the model we have is prolly the perfect model, as it reps where we are in our hearts right now collectively. I mean, could you imagine having that job? A job herding spiritual cats? Believing in a vengeful God is not the best perspective, certainly; but fear of the Lord is the beginning, right. I learned a lot of stuff from pastors, even if i had to unlearn a lot of it--such is the nature of learning truth i guess

Been there done that. We had a church once back in England.
Not in the system... We have lots of pressure from the bigger churches wanting to control us.
I believe that is the problem with most 'off centre' pastors who do not preach the true word. Pressure to conform. ( we in the end came to Canada and just helped someone else in their church, for a while. Then, as you know, we opted right out of the system)
But these pastor 'toe the party line' because they want the job..the job is produce or go. So they focus on church numbers, building a larger church membership. They have to sacrifice truth, to keep the membership up.
If they preached the truth of the Word the membership would dwindle, and they'd be out of a job.
Back in the 60's before we started our church, our old Pastor AGREED with us leaving him. He had to preach what his old members wanted. He knew that we had more truth, he agreed with it...but he was afraid of preaching it.
Bless his heart. That is how our journey started.
The organized church is bought and paid for, and controlled from 'the top'. Truth will always be compromised.
That is how I see it. The $ and security rule the day.

 

[bbyrd009]

The organized church is bought and paid for, and controlled from 'the top'. Truth will always be compromised.
That is how I see it. The $ and security rule the day.

i agree, yet we see that that pastor was at least honest with you, right; and lots of other pastors are honest about it, when someone comes knocking, or they actively oppose this in other ways. Meanwhile the buyers get what they are paying for--Scripture even refers to "market-place," which i suggest is a euphemism for "organized religion," not a ref to somewhere to buy literal bread/meat--and after all, "fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom," right.

So iow, like Government, Organized Religion is the worst idea possible, until all of the other concepts are considered. Church, churches will change when the people change, as we witness happening right now i guess.

accepting truth is not this pleasant learning experience that we often make it out to be, iow; it is usually painful and messy
dying to self is hard

 

[101G]

Addressing the OP, you might want to read Isaiah chapter 22

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Addressing the OP, you might want to read Isaiah chapter 22

Thank you seems 22:15 on...

 

[twinc]

Addressing the OP, you might want to read Isaiah chapter 22

read it - what is the point you are trying to make - twinc

 

[bbyrd009]

Thank you seems 22:15 on...

so, what i am getting from that is more like "what is already bound in heaven, you will bind on earth..." even though it is put the other way, which i am finding is a dialectic method to hide truth. But i might be mistaken in this case, dunno. but so then another way to possibly get that is "what you end up binding on earth will be what was already bound in heaven." Even though the changing of the tenses there alone will be enough to drive a professor insane i guess.

 

[twinc]

so, what i am getting from that is more like "what is already bound in heaven, you will bind on earth..." even though it is put the other way, which i am finding is a dialectic method to hide truth. But i might be mistaken in this case, dunno. but so then another way to possibly get that is "what you end up binding on earth will be what was already bound in heaven." Even though the changing of the tenses there alone will be enough to drive a professor insane i guess.

the Church cannot bind or loosen God's laws but she can bind and loosen her own laws imho - twinc

 

[bbyrd009]

the Church cannot bind or loosen God's laws but she can bind and loosen her own laws imho - twinc

well, i would say that regardless of your def of "Church," what is really being said is, in the spirit of your post here, "once you are getting it right, you won't have to constantly change and/or update your laws, like you are having to do now. What you bind here will be bound there." of course "heaven" being a disputed definition also i guess. Bc where is the kingdom of heaven?