New to Apologetics & Evangelism, already feel completely incompetent my first try...

[bihzor]

So, I got an e-mail from the first person that I've tried to share the Gospel with, and I have no clue how to respond. Here it is:

Things that I do NOT like about Biblical Christianity include (but are by no means limited to):
homophobic
sexist
cruel to rape victims
sanctions slavery
many contradictions in the bible
we are supposed to be obedient to god
i think its a fear based religion. without the threat of hell i don't think it would be as effective
the concept of original sin-" you are flawed and sinful, an aberration in the eyes of god; worthless and bound to an eternity of suffering by default just for being born. Why? Because 6000 or so years ago, a woman was tricked by a talking snake into eating a magical fruit. This indiscretion is now your inheritance, and as far as god is concerned, you are equally responsible."
you are discouraged from questioning god, and the bible, and the religion in general.
god punished adam and eve in the garden of eden, and didn't punish satan
god allows satan to be evil in the world
if god is loving, why does he cast people who don't believe in him to hell? i think this is a fundamental problem.
it is a sin to look at another person with lust, but this is a basic biological function that supposedly god gave us- isnt that a bit hard?
god is supposed to love everyone equally, but in the old testament he has favourites: the biblical Hebrews and their descendents, the Jews.
god sets double standards: we aren't to kill anyone, but he can kill millions. He says “In your anger, do not sin” and then spends entire chapters ranting about his wrathful vengeance on those who don’t acknowledge him. He says “Love your enemies” and then smites his own enemies at the drop of a hat (with the exception of Satan who inexplicably continues to get a free pass). When humans do any of the aforementioned (unless sanctioned by god), then it is sin. When god does those things or tells others to do so, he is moving in “mysterious ways” and we just have to accept it.
Furthermore, Christians are told to automatically forgive those who wrong them (even if the person guilty of the wrongdoing hasn’t even sought forgiveness), but god only forgives those who beg and plead first.
i like this quote by epicurus:
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”

Any help formulating a response will be greatly appreciated!

 

[aspen]

I think your friend has provided a great list for you - think of it as an outline of all the questions you must research and work out on your own. What a gift!

 

[HammerStone]

Jesus.

That'd be my answer. Simple, trite, overused maybe - it's the "Sunday School" answer - but it points to a faith that is unlike any other in the world. These complex problems are far beyond our narrow perspective as humans (since our relationship is that of the art looking at the creator and defining him only in the art) and certainly beyond answering in a simple forum thread in response to one of the oldest tricks in the book (my friend).

In closing, the riddle/quote from Epicurus shows our jacked up perspective of looking at God. First, the quote was probably not his, and evidence suggests it was even made in opposition to his belief. Second, it was taken from a guy who himself would have been religious, as he talked about the ataraxia suggesting their were gods so his concept of a god was flawed at best.

The quote fails in that it doesn't even address an all-powerful God who can bring forth good out of the bad. It's all a limitation of the perspective.

 

[Brothertom]

My Apologetics to him would be nothing.

" But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will."

Apologetics in itself is only successful when there is faith present. Faith cannot be argued, or understood by human reasoning; This is why the Preaching of faith is the only applicable success that we have. To rightly divide the Word, we must first believe that God exists, and is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. You can never prove faith; it will always be explained away in ever increasing concentric circles, as is this fellows dark accusations about the character of God prove.

I would say to him, "Repent and Believe the good News, that Jesus laid down His life that you may be saved from God's wrath and Hell . " "He loves you. Do not deny Him, and resist Him, lest you become damned." This was the ministry of John the Baptist, and the Lord Jesus as He came up out of the Wilderness.

Every man has a measure of faith, and there is such a thing as God haters. Our duty is to speak the Truth in love, like casting a seed forward. Some ground will be good ground, where there is a good and honest heart that desires to receive that seed. Others, will rend your pearls of Truth, and spit them back at your feet. Preach the good News, and move on. If there is a sign of repentance from dead works, and faith toward God, be there for him.

This is our only obligation.

 

[James Forthwright]

Things that I do NOT like about Biblical Christianity include (but are by no means limited to):

homophobic:

God’s interest is in preserving mankind. What if everyone was queer? All of mankind would vanish within one generation (without turkey basters, that is). Homos can’t reproduce so they often recruit and entice the young. Who likes pedophiles? Have you ever witnessed what all goes on during a Gay Pride parade? Could this world exist without limp-wristed interior decorators? Inquiring minds need to know.


sexist:

There are many God-fearing women mentioned in the Bible, Sarah, Ruth, Deborah, Jael, Mary, Judith, Esther, Dorcas, Philip’s daughters who prophesied, Mary Magdalene, sisters Martha & Mary. Be sure to read the 31[sup]st[/sup] chapter of Proverbs as well.


cruel to rape victims:

That’s news to me. Where?


sanctions slavery:

All Christians are supposed to be slaves and servants unto God. He is our Creator and Master. You’re welcome to find another universe where YOU call the shots.


many contradictions in the bible:

For instance?


we are supposed to be obedient to god:

What happened when you were disobedient to your parents?


i think its a fear based religion. without the threat of hell i don't think it would be as effective:

So, you’re for INefficancy? The threat of punishment is a useful deterrent (it worked for my parents as well). Don’t want to be eternally punished, then accept Christ’s free gift of salvation. Fear God and there’s nothing left to fear.


the concept of original sin-" you are flawed and sinful, an aberration in the eyes of god; worthless and bound to an eternity of suffering by default just for being born. Why? Because 6000 or so years ago, a woman was tricked by a talking snake into eating a magical fruit. This indiscretion is now your inheritance, and as far as god is concerned, you are equally responsible.":

Did you ever notice that you don’t have to train children how to MIS-behave? It comes natural. That’s tough but God has provided a simple way out of your sinful condition. Repent of your sins and believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ.

you are discouraged from questioning god, and the bible, and the religion in general.:

We question the Bible and religion here at Christianityboard.com on a daily basis (most of us just know better than to question God). Try the Outreach Ministry Christian Forum section for non-belivers. Sign up and join the fun!


god punished adam and eve in the garden of eden, and didn't punish satan:

Read the end of the Book. Satan gets his. . . in spades.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.


god allows satan to be evil in the world:

Temporarily, yes. Maybe that’s so we’ll know how blessed we are when Satan is bound for a thousand years and later cast into the Lake of Fire.



if god is loving, why does he cast people who don't believe in him to hell? i think this is a fundamental problem.:

Jesus has provided the solution by offering Himself on the cross to ALL who would acknowledge His sacrifice and repent. Christ also mentioned that there would be some who would be beaten with few stripes while others received harsher penalties. So hell, apparently, has various levels of punishment.



it is a sin to look at another person with lust, but this is a basic biological function that supposedly god gave us- isnt that a bit hard?:

Calculus was hard too, but somehow I got through it. Seek purity instead of the prurient. It's much more rewarding in the long run.



god is supposed to love everyone equally, but in the old testament he has favourites: the biblical Hebrews and their descendents, the Jews.:

Yeah, I don’t like my nephews and nieces all the same either. Last I heard, God wasn’t so thrilled with the Jews either. And who told you life was fair?

god sets double standards: we aren't to kill anyone, but he can kill millions. He says “In your anger, do not sin” and then spends entire chapters ranting about his wrathful vengeance on those who don’t acknowledge him. He says “Love your enemies” and then smites his own enemies at the drop of a hat (with the exception of Satan who inexplicably continues to get a free pass). When humans do any of the aforementioned (unless sanctioned by god), then it is sin. When god does those things or tells others to do so, he is moving in “mysterious ways” and we just have to accept it.:

My boss has a bigger house and drives a nicer car than I too. So? God makes the rules, we obey! “You don’t tug on Superman’s cape, you don’t spit into the wind, you don’t pull the mask of the ol’ Lone Ranger and . . .you don’t mess around with God Almighty” --The gospel according to Jim Croce



Furthermore, Christians are told to automatically forgive those who wrong them (even if the person guilty of the wrongdoing hasn’t even sought forgiveness), but god only forgives those who beg and plead first.:

Do you think it’s healthy for humans to harbor hate and stew forever in a state of unforgiveness? God has promised to instantly forgive all those that accept the loving sacrifice of His Son on the Cross of Calvary. No need to beg, just admit you are a sinner in need of salvation.



i like this quote by Epicurus:

Epicurus died 270 years before Christ. Maybe God will wink at Epi's ignorance?

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.:

Read the Book: It all gets taken care of in the end, my friend.

Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.:

He’s both able and demonstrably willing to give of His blessed Son’s life that you might be spared from evil. That’s sounds mighty benevolent to me!


Is he both able and willing?:

See above (and below).


Then whence cometh evil?:

Evil is a temporary aberration in God’s plan. We of mortal finite fiber can not (yet) fathom the eternal perspective.

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”:

To repeat: He’s both able and demonstrably willing to give of His blessed Son’s life that you might be spared from evil. That’s sounds mighty benevolent to me!

 

[aspen]

Things that I do NOT like about Biblical Christianity include (but are by no means limited to):

homophobic:

God’s interest is in preserving mankind. What if everyone was queer? All of mankind would vanish within one generation (without turkey basters, that is). Homos can’t reproduce so they often recruit and entice the young. Who likes pedophiles? Have you ever witnessed what all goes on during a Gay Pride parade? Could this world exist without limp-wristed interior decorators? Inquiring minds need to know.

Perfect example, James - how unfortunate.


sexist:

There are many God-fearing women mentioned in the Bible, Sarah, Ruth, Deborah, Jael, Mary, Judith, Esther, Dorcas, Philip’s daughters who prophesied, Mary Magdalene, sisters Martha & Mary. Be sure to read the 31[sup]st[/sup] chapter of Proverbs as well.

Of course, this has nothing to do with concerns about sexism in the church.........


cruel to rape victims:

That’s news to me. Where?

Perfect 3 out of 3 so far - nice James!! One of the most cruel things you can do is deny that rape exists in the church - often making victims feel alone - and then, if they are courageous enough to come forward for support they are often not believed.


sanctions slavery:

All Christians are supposed to be slaves and servants unto God. He is our Creator and Master. You’re welcome to find another universe where YOU call the shots.

Well, you better get to work picking in the fields or working a sweat shop for Jesus!


many contradictions in the bible:

For instance?

Contradictions are seen everywhere in the Bible by nonbelievers and all explained away by believers. Beauty AND Biblical contradictions are in the eye of the beholder.


we are supposed to be obedient to god:

What happened when you were disobedient to your parents?

They promised to torture me for eternity? Oh, right....that's the all loving God we profess


i think its a fear based religion. without the threat of hell i don't think it would be as effective:

So, you’re for INefficancy? The threat of punishment is a useful deterrent (it worked for my parents as well). Don’t want to be eternally punished, then accept Christ’s free gift of salvation. Fear God and there’s nothing left to fear.

Blackmail.....the cornerstone of faith!


the concept of original sin-" you are flawed and sinful, an aberration in the eyes of god; worthless and bound to an eternity of suffering by default just for being born. Why? Because 6000 or so years ago, a woman was tricked by a talking snake into eating a magical fruit. This indiscretion is now your inheritance, and as far as god is concerned, you are equally responsible.":

Did you ever notice that you don’t have to train children how to MIS-behave? It comes natural. That’s tough but God has provided a simple way out of your sinful condition. Repent of your sins and believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ.

You mean act their age? Yep!



god punished adam and eve in the garden of eden, and didn't punish satan:

Read the end of the Book. Satan gets his. . . in spades.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Jewish scholars do not believe in Original Sin - they also believe the Creation account in Genesis is a story. Genesis is a Jewish text


god allows satan to be evil in the world:

Temporarily, yes. Maybe that’s so we’ll know how blessed we are when Satan is bound for a thousand years and later cast into the Lake of Fire.

Actually James, we never needed to know evil to appreciate good. This is Mormon theology, not Christian


it is a sin to look at another person with lust, but this is a basic biological function that supposedly god gave us- isnt that a bit hard?:

Calculus was hard too, but somehow I got through it. Seek purity instead of the prurient. It's much more rewarding in the long run.

Actually, it is the second look that leads to trouble. We have to curb all of our biological functions to some degree in order to live in a community.

god is supposed to love everyone equally, but in the old testament he has favourites: the biblical Hebrews and their descendents, the Jews.:

Yeah, I don’t like my nephews and nieces all the same either. Last I heard, God wasn’t so thrilled with the Jews either. And who told you life was fair?

Um...John 3:16 tells us that God so loved the world...

god sets double standards: we aren't to kill anyone, but he can kill millions. He says “In your anger, do not sin” and then spends entire chapters ranting about his wrathful vengeance on those who don’t acknowledge him. He says “Love your enemies” and then smites his own enemies at the drop of a hat (with the exception of Satan who inexplicably continues to get a free pass). When humans do any of the aforementioned (unless sanctioned by god), then it is sin. When god does those things or tells others to do so, he is moving in “mysterious ways” and we just have to accept it.:

My boss has a bigger house and drives a nicer car than I too. So? God makes the rules, we obey! “You don’t tug on Superman’s cape, you don’t spit into the wind, you don’t pull the mask of the ol’ Lone Ranger and . . .you don’t mess around with God Almighty” --The gospel according to Jim Croce

He is not The Godfather......He is Abba. God is not the biggest baddest bully on the block - God is love.

i like this quote by Epicurus:

Epicurus died 270 years before Christ. Maybe God will wink at Epi's ignorance?

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.:

Read the Book: It all gets taken care of in the end, my friend.

God is using His Creation to repair His Creation.

Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.:

He’s both able and demonstrably willing to give of His blessed Son’s life that you might be spared from evil. That’s sounds mighty benevolent to me!

God cannot be both good and evil - this is a heresy called dualism. Evil is not a force - it is merely the lack of good.

 

[Jake]

My Apologetics to him would be nothing.

" But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will."

Apologetics in itself is only successful when there is faith present. Faith cannot be argued, or understood by human reasoning; This is why the Preaching of faith is the only applicable success that we have. To rightly divide the Word, we must first believe that God exists, and is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. You can never prove faith; it will always be explained away in ever increasing concentric circles, as is this fellows dark accusations about the character of God prove.

I would say to him, "Repent and Believe the good News, that Jesus laid down His life that you may be saved from God's wrath and Hell . " "He loves you. Do not deny Him, and resist Him, lest you become damned." This was the ministry of John the Baptist, and the Lord Jesus as He came up out of the Wilderness.

Every man has a measure of faith, and there is such a thing as God haters. Our duty is to speak the Truth in love, like casting a seed forward. Some ground will be good ground, where there is a good and honest heart that desires to receive that seed. Others, will rend your pearls of Truth, and spit them back at your feet. Preach the good News, and move on. If there is a sign of repentance from dead works, and faith toward God, be there for him.

This is our only obligation.

I agree, we can only share, it is God who grows.

Questions posed like this are simply an attempt to trip a person up and to debate. The person without the Spirit can not understand the things that come from the Lord, they are foolishness to him. Only through the Spirit is anyone able to understand.

 

[judd]

"Lord knows" we all say!

 

[Doppleganger]

Nobody is alike you have to try and reach them on their level ... many levels ... most of the content is negative

You might try and show that bias is everywhere ... it clouds the mind ... its like the daily media parade

Anyone looking for something they wanna find ... usually justifies there opinion in one way or another by it

Focus on the BOOK, Man's heart, the condition and state we live in, and the Almighty above

 

[James Forthwright]

Here's a very enlightening and revealing video demonstrating the true nature of traditional marriage advocates vs. the modern "tolerance" movement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Za0ZvliA3AM&feature=youtu.be

 

[aspen]

Here's a very enlightening and revealing video demonstrating the true nature of traditional marriage advocates vs. the modern "tolerance" movement.

So people are hypocrites? Yep.....why is this news?

The funny thing is that you cannot see bad behavior from traditional marriage advocates.,,,,,because they are the good guys!

Conservative media is the same way - all they can see is the speck in the liberal eye. It is one of the differences between Jon Stewart and FOX NEWS - Jon Stewart laughs at liberals all the time because he can see hypocrisy on both sides.

 

[Hawkins]

homophobic

God is responsible for setting up Law to guard an eternity called Heaven, such that only those who abide by the Law will be able to enter Heaven. Else, people will screw things up there and it's no longer heaven but hell. So it is expected that God will set up strict Laws and only those qualified to live in an eternity will be able to enter Heaven.

In order to examine if God Law is right, you need to first know how to build and manage a heavenly eternity. Since you don't know how to build a successful heavenly heaven, you have to listen to Him. He's the pro not you.

So if He said that homosexuality is a sin, from the perspective of eternity, you as a novice knowing nothing about eternity can't argue with a pro who's specialized in building heavens.

sexist

Man and woman have a different role to play, it's discrimination but co-operation. If you are willing to compare human books of the same age, that is, books of an age of 2000~3000 years old, you may notice that the Bible is actually a very open minded book.

cruel to rape victims

War practice is a human establishment. In ancient times, women are taken by the winner of wars as practically they need women to increase population as one of the resources of wars. That's a human practice. God allows the Jews to adapt the same practice till they entered Canaan, by then God started to educate them with the Mosaic Law. God never said that it's a good practice, at the same time He didn't demand the Jews to be saints among their enemies as if they are the saints by that time, they will be the first to be removed from history as a whole. The reason is simple, if you allow you be killed by your enemies but not vice versa, you will be the first to be wiped out. The Jews in OT adapts the policy of "eye for eye and tooth for tooth". Only after entering Canaan and the Jews started to learn what Law is and what commandments are then they started to be good people. Before that they are just as bad as their neighbors/enemies.

sanctions slavery

Similarly, slavery is a human establishment. God at a certain period of time did not demand the Jews to be the saints especially when the Jews themselves are slaves in Egypt. God just ask them to treat their slaves better than the Egyptians. The Egyptians killed the Jews' children just because they were over populated. God thus set up some guidelines to prevent the Jews from doing the same. At the same time, He only demands the Jews to change gradually from the current world culture. To ask them to change over-night is unrealistic, don't you think.

I barely remember some where in the OT it mentioned that slavery is bad habit.

many contradictions in the bible

They may remain as "contradictions" to those who don't understand the Bible and Christianity. You don't seek, you never get the answers.

(you can actually ask him for a "contradiction", solve it then ask him why he has to think it a contradiction before he's delivered the answer. If there's an explanation for one of these contradictions then it could mean there will be answers to other "contradictions")

we are supposed to be obedient to god

Whoever does not obey God will finally sin against His Law and thus disqualify himself to be in the eternity called His Kingdom in Heaven. That's why everyone is advised to obey Him and His Law such that he will be able to live forever.

i think its a fear based religion. without the threat of hell i don't think it would be as effective

That remains his own faith. Truth can be fearful sometimes though.

the concept of original sin-" you are flawed and sinful, an aberration in the eyes of god; worthless and bound to an eternity of suffering by default just for being born. Why? Because 6000 or so years ago, a woman was tricked by a talking snake into eating a magical fruit. This indiscretion is now your inheritance, and as far as god is concerned, you are equally responsible."

Science nowadays shows that babies can be educated when he's still in a mother's womb. It's no surprise that the devil is capable of such an education. That's why King David said that one could be sinful even before he's born. Make sense?

The story of Adam and Eve contains rich information about modern human behavior. Modern human thinks that they have gained the knowledge such that their eyes are open and can judge right and wrong as God does. But just shown above, they are wrong about almost everything the Bible and God would like to say. That's why the day they eat of it, the same day they shall surely die".

you are discouraged from questioning god, and the bible, and the religion in general.

You encourage to believe instead of throwing nonsense due to the lack of intelligence. (I almost said that your friend failed to grasp what is said because he's stupid, that's rude though so I refrain from that.

 

[biggandyy]

Just sow the seed of the Gospel and move on. The above objections are a laundry list of liberal talking points. Your mandate is complete and he is now without excuse. The Holy Spirit is in charge now. Your next priority is the next person the Holy Spirit places in your path.

----------You know I'm right.