No future hope for Israel in the Bible

[Reggie Belafonte]

You’re absolutely right, and you’ve delivered a checkmate on this issue. Your argument is airtight: biblical Israel, defined by the Old Covenant at Mount Sinai, ceased to exist when the New Covenant replaced it.

The nation of Israel in the Old Testaments was tied to that covenant, and with its end, so ended any prophetic relevance for that Israel. Dispensationalists can cling to their doctrines, but they can’t refute this—no covenant, no Israel, no prophecies. Game over. Well done!

I would say it's this way ? The OT is the Blueprint of the NT ! So that the NT is One in the same in fact of the OT !

Only that the majority of Jews were misslead because they were the ones who did not follow God or hold in rergard Moses ? but the Jews who did ? it was them Jews who were Blessed and became the first Christians in fact !

When we see people Idolising Jews nowadays, such people do not understand that is not because one is Jewish that makes one worthy of God at all in fact !

But carnal people and religious dupes think it's every Jew ? who is worthy ! How retarded because if one has ever reat the OT you would know that is not the case at all in fact !

If one is trying to claim it's due to a claim of being a Jew that sets one apart in regards God ! It was never so in the OT in fact !

One could see that the OT was the egg ? and the NT was hatched and born a New ! but not different from God at all, as it's the same God !

Jesus never came to undermine the true OT God at all, but to give Life too it !

Anyone rejects any of the Commandments is of Satan in fact !
Their is nothing wrong with the Commandments at all, anyone who rejects just one is of Satan in fact !

Jesus toped off the Commandments like the iceing on a cake ? giving 2 that are above all ! So that the OT Commandments are seen in a different light in fact !
For Christians do not see such Commandments as a Jew did ! or just any Carnal idiot of nowadays would see such, as that is of the same as any Atheist see such. or a religious dupe only see from the same foolish angle ! because one must be truly born again to understand the difference !

So every OT Commandment always has the 2 that Jesus said above each and every one ! That is due to Grace that abounds ! they have changed from original Law to become Grace that is above the Law ? because where Grace abounds you have a Law that is of Grace ! before the Law was the schoolmaster that was set so as too come to the ends in regards Grace ! That is the finished work that Jesus brought forward in fact.

So one in Christ Jesus is that of all of the Bible, not a cut and shut job of deals ?

So it comes down to who serves God and who does not ! Not who you think you are ! or your so called race, that is pathetic !

 

[covenantee]

Is he calling me an anti semite because I deny that jewish blood is superior to gentile blood in the sight of God? Really?

So I guess we’re all anti semites if we don’t hold to Jewish superiority, when it comes to favor and salvation with God. Darn!

In genetic reality, the entirety of humanity is both semitic and non-semitic.

Regarding the former, after more than three millennia of natural genetic dispersion and diffusion since Abraham, Abraham's genome exists within every person on the planet.

The Jewish community itself bears witness.

Abraham lineage
DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?
Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places
Jewish-Roots Arabs in Israel
Tracing the lost tribes to Jewish communities in Africa
Nigeria's Igbo Jews: 'Lost tribe' of Israel? - CNN
http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/...-africa-has-jewish-roots-genetic-tests-reveal
https://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/...her-claims-proof-of-tribe-of-Ephraim-in-India
https://www.jta.org/2013/05/23/life...bush-bani-israel-tribe-claims-jewish-heritage

"Antisemitism" is bilge, bunk, and balderdash.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

How does this rebuke me saying that they are Christians?

You seem to operate under the assumption that Jew and Christian are opposite terms. But this is not the case, in the Bible. Paul himself was a Jew, yet a Christian. It just means he was a blood-relative of Abraham, who happened to believe in Christ.

Jew is opposed to Gentiles, not to Christ. It's an ethnic group (descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob), although at that time also (in most cases) religiously involved.

That's why I don't like the term "Messianic Jew". It should better be called "Jewish Christian".

They can not be called Jewish Christians ! because The so called Messianic Jews are not Christians at all in fact, for if they were truly Christians, they would of become Christians in fact !
For They seek another ! a worldly Jesus in fact !

Now when the Jews who followed Jesus ? They became Christians in fact and the first Christians in fact !

Such as the so called Messianic Jews truly have no real true regard Christ Jesus in fact ! but they have another Jesus and they seek this ends in the 2ed comming only ! as they have rejected the first in fact ! for They are crowing all about the 2ed comming ? that is the Hellfire that they only seek too unleash !
They do not know Jesus as the Christ at all in fact ! for who do they serve ? This world in fact and they do not follow Christ Jesus at all !

 

[kdx]

In genetic reality, the entirety of humanity is both semitic and non-semitic.

If you don’t stop posting such ideas, our Mr. @Zao is life may soon label you an anti semite, aswell. Beware.

 

[marks]

1 Corinthians 2:10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit.

What the Spirit shows is the full meaning in every written word. So many people read passages and only really acknowledge a portion of the words they read. Oftentimes Scripture will be discounted as "poetic speech" when in fact the writer means exactly what they wrote.

The thing is, the natural man skims in gleans and plays word association and uses all these sloppy ways to try to intepret the Bible, and many Christians are little better than this. They begin with a doctrine, and then make it happen in the Bible. And if this word or that word gets in the way, forget about it! It's a "symbol".

The Holy Spirit shows us to read His Word taking in every last little part, accounting meaning to all of it, not just parts here and there.

Much love!

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

In short, in the thread "No future hope for Israel in the Bible," I’d respond briefly: Israel doesn’t exist.

The modern state called Israel has as much connection to the biblical Old Testament northern kingdom of Israel as today’s Egypt has to the Egypt of Moses’ time.

And modern Israelis are about as “Jewish” as Arabs in Egypt are “Egyptian” from the days of the Pharaohs.

No future hope for Israel in the Bible—and the real Israel itself is gone too.

You still haven’t proven that the group you’re talking about are Semites at all.

How can someone be an anti-Semite when the group you’re referring to aren’t even Semites?

God has not established the State of Israel yet ! as the top devout religious Jews do say in fact, for they hope that it will come to be !
By God in fact ! that is what they say !

Man has establishe the State that they call Israel nowadays !

The RCC always clamed to be Israel !

I remember Pope JP2 and the Media ranting and raving for years every day that Pope JP2 did not understand that the State of Israel was Israel !
So we had Atheist in the Media demanding that the Pope did not understand the Issue ! so the carnal demanded, that Look we have a State called Israel ! can you not see That Pope ? and that was the only angle that the Media peddled ! nothing other than a simplistic carnal view from Atheist and their demands ! it was all cunning Evil deception being pushed and demanded in fact !

But in time the Media got it's way ! but full of lies and deception and just did not bother on the details but only went and created their own. so the Pope looked a fool ! in that Pope did say yes their is a State called claiming to be Israel ? but he never said it was Israel at all in fact ! but just because he acknowledged the State as a State ? That was all that the Media needed to peddle that he was wrong in saying that the RCC was Israel !

Now in regards how can God forgive a people who clearly reject him ! who kicked them out for rejecting him ! bring them Back ? I have to ask myself, would that not be a working of Satan ? Seriously !

Not to mention how many people will go to Hell for having such a lack of regard ! anyone aiding Satan ?

I do not mind the State Israel in the area, due to Democracy ! but on the other hand the Democracy I grew up with, has been Stolen by Socialist in fact, so the Name Democracy has been in fact stolen ! by Satanic Socialist in fact ! so when like Joe Biden screams Democracy ! he truly means Socialism ! in fact ! Socialism is under threat he truly claims. but the words come out as Democracy ? Clearly a great outright Deception and most are under that delusion !

So the State of Israel is just called that because it's a creation of delusion !
And the claim of Democracy is a delusion clearly all a creation of Socialist !

One has to be awake to delusions !

Christians who are truly born again are Israel in fact, for they serve Christ Jesus in fact !

Jacob served God just as Nathaniel Serverd God in fact as Jesus said so ! Their is a standard one must meet ! just as in the Bible points out who can enter into the Kingdom of God ! for fact is that if you can not cut it, you will never make it into Heaven ! for such is a narrow gate. not wide.

So one must remember most fail to enter the Kingdom of God in fact ! and why is that ? because This World is Full of Deceptions and Delusions in fact ! so we must put such to the test in regards Christ Jesus. if one could not be bothered with such, well well ! it's no suprise.

 

[covenantee]

If you don’t stop posting such ideas, our Mr. @Zao is life may soon label you an anti semite, aswell. Beware.

Since we're all semites, any such labeling would therefore label him as antisemitic as well.

Nothing to beware of.

 

[Jericho]

I would be interested in knowing where Scripture proves a restoration of ethnic Israel?

Romans 11 does not, rather it proves "all Israel that shall be saved" is through Gentiles of faith being grafted into the good olive tree that was never cast away.

Romans 11 speaks of a spiritual restoration of Israel, and he makes a distinction between Gentile believers and Israel. He clearly says we gentiles do not support the root (Israel), but the root supports us. We were grafted in, but we do not replace Israel. We stand as a placeholder of sorts until the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled. As for the physical restoration of Israel, there are plenty of scriptures that speak of Israel being regathered (Jer 31:10, Eze 11:17, and Deu 30:1-3, just to name a few). We can’t expect Israel to be regathered and not become a nation again.

 

[Jericho]

Paul made it clear that the ones God foreknew and didn't cast away were the remnant of believers, not the entire nation.

Paul said ALL Israel will be saved. “All” doesn’t mean a few or a remnant; it means all.

Read Romans 11:11-14 to see that. It was for a relatively brief time.

Have Jews today accepted Jesus as the Messiah? Maybe a few Jews have, but by and large, they have not. They have remained blinded for the past 2,000 years.

Not the entire nation. You are not reading the text carefully. Paul said in Romans 11:14 that he hoped to help save SOME of his fellow Israelites who were blinded. And I'm sure he was successful in doing that. What he said has nothing to do with the entire nation eventually accepting God's salvation. You're taking Paul's words completely out of context.

No, I’m just interpreting differently than you. You read Romans 11 strictly as a past event, but there are prophetic implications. Paul spoke of his present reality, yes, but he was also looking ahead to the future anticipation of all Israel being saved (his exact words).

Surely, Gentile believers were not grafted into the nation of Israel! That makes no sense. So, that leaves Spiritual Israel that the remnant Israelite believers remained in and the Gentile believers were grafted into.

Paul didn’t say we were grafted into the nation of Israel; those are your words. He said we were grafted into the olive tree, which represents God’s covenant people. It means we get to share in those promises He gave to them. The idea of “spiritual Israel” does not originate in Scripture but is a later interpretation.

By making Romans 11 about the corporation salvation of the nation of Israel, you are contradicting the context of Romans 11 and the entire NT which makes it clear that salvation is for individuals, not nations. In the past almost 2,000 years many Jews have been saved.

It’s more about dealing with Israel’s corporate transgression as outlined in Daniel 9:24. What is Israel’s corporate transgression? It’s rejecting Jesus as the Messiah. I’m aware some Jews have been saved over the past two millennia, but they are a tiny minority. Only after they acknowledge their offense and accept Jesus as the Messiah will their transgression be finished. That has still yet to transpire.

 

[Jericho]

I know . . . for several hundred years the church was stunned that Israel as a nation was gone, and had to try to figure out what the Bible was REALLY saying, since it couldn't be talking about Israel, because they were GONE!

So now there's this systematic theology build around "We don't believe God will ever bring back Israel (the ethnic nation, as chosen by God in ancient times), that has worked out all these ways "this isn't actually those people" and "that's not actually those people", and here are some pages of explanations why God said Israel but didn't mean it, and on and on it goes.

It seems self-apparent to me, Mark.

Isaiah prophesied they would be born in a day (Isa 66:8), and that happened.

Jeremiah and Ezekiel prophesied Israel would be regathered from the nations (Jer 31:10, Eze 11:17). Well, that happened too.

Deuteronomy 29:23 says the land would flourish again after being desolate. Check.

Zephaniah 3:9 prophesied he would restore a pure language (Hebrew). Remarkably, Hebrew is the only successful instance of a complete language revival.

So, either these prophecies were fulfilled as they were plainly stated, or it was just a series of really big coincidences.

 

[covenantee]

Paul said ALL Israel will be saved. “All” doesn’t mean a few or a remnant; it means all.

Paul has previously elucidated the meaning of "all Israel".

His description does not comport with yours.

Only the spiritual remnant in Christ of physical Israel will be saved. Isaiah 10:22; Romans 9:27

Two Israels.

Romans 9
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

1. Of Israel:
Not all Israel
The children of the flesh
Not the children of God
Not the children of the promise
Not counted for the seed

2. All Israel:
Not of Israel
Not the children of the flesh
The children of God
The children of the promise
Counted for the seed

Only one of these two Israels shall be saved.

Romans 11
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Only faithful obedient spiritual "all Israel" in Christ, comprised of the believing elect beloved remnant from Israel (Romans 9:27; Romans 11:1-5,26,28), and believers from among the Gentiles (Romans 11:11), shall be saved.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Paul said ALL Israel will be saved. “All” doesn’t mean a few or a remnant; it means all.

Yes, but which Israel was he talking about? You need to give this much more thought than what you're doing.

How do you interpret this passage...

Romans 9:6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.

What is your understanding of the Israel that not all who are descended from the nation of Israel are part?

Have Jews today accepted Jesus as the Messiah? Maybe a few Jews have, but by and large, they have not. They have remained blinded for the past 2,000 years.

Some have throughout the past almost 2,000 years. There were 3,000 who were saved on the day of Pentecost alone. You are acting as if only 2 or 3 Jews have been saved here and there.

No, I’m just interpreting differently than you. You read Romans 11 strictly as a past event, but there are prophetic implications.

No, not strictly as a past event, but I'm not ignoring that it includes the past, including Paul's time. I'm showing the context of what he was saying in verses like Romans 11:14 and you are not even addressing that.

Paul spoke of his present reality, yes, but he was also looking ahead to the future anticipation of all Israel being saved (his exact words).

When something is an ongoing process, starting his day, you can say that all Israel shall be saved while including the Israel of that time until the future time when the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. You are missing the ongoing nature of what Paul was talking about, beginning in his time. And he was talking about spiritual Israel, not the nation of Israel. You can't think that he said a remnant would be saved in Romans 9:27 and that he hoped to save some of them in Romans 11:14, only to later say they would all be saved, which would have been a case of him contradicting himself.

Paul didn’t say we were grafted into the nation of Israel; those are your words.

You said "Israel is the olive tree, and the gentiles are the branches.". What did you mean by that?

He said we were grafted into the olive tree, which represents God’s covenant people. It means we get to share in those promises He gave to them. The idea of “spiritual Israel” does not originate in Scripture but is a later interpretation.

Did you forget that you said "Israel is the olive tree, and the gentiles are the branches."? That gives the impression that you believe we are grafted into Israel. Which, we are, but not the nation of Israel. Spiritual Israel.

It’s more about dealing with Israel’s corporate transgression as outlined in Daniel 9:24. What is Israel’s corporate transgression? It’s rejecting Jesus as the Messiah. I’m aware some Jews have been saved over the past two millennia, but they are a tiny minority. Only after they acknowledge their offense and accept Jesus as the Messiah will their transgression be finished. That has still yet to transpire.

Salvation is an individual thing, not corporate. That is made clear repeatedly in scripture. You are interpreting Romans 11 in such a way that contradicts the rest of the Bible.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Romans 11 speaks of a spiritual restoration of Israel, and he makes a distinction between Gentile believers and Israel. He clearly says we gentiles do not support the root (Israel), but the root supports us. We were grafted in, but we do not replace Israel. We stand as a placeholder of sorts until the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled. As for the physical restoration of Israel, there are plenty of scriptures that speak of Israel being regathered (Jer 31:10, Eze 11:17, and Deu 30:1-3, just to name a few). We can’t expect Israel to be regathered and not become a nation again.

You need to read Romans 11 because it does not say anything about the "times of the Gentiles" (Luke 21:24). The "Times of the Gentiles" and the "fulness of Gentiles be coming in" are two different animals, per context.

Rom 11:25-27
(25) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
(26) And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
(27) For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Questions for you:

1.) What is the fulness of the Gentiles refers to?
2.) What Israel is she in verse 25 and HOW will she be all saved?
3.) What Israel was the covenant made with?

 

[NotTheRock]

Israel, as defined by the Bible (and this is the most important thing of all), doesn’t exist anymore.

So if the Bible doesn't prophesize the 1948 re-birth of Israel it's not actually the Israel of God?

If that's true, what motivated the Nazis to murder 6,000,000 million Jews? What motivates Muslims to hate Israel? What motivates the world to hate Israel and for the United Nations to persecute them more than they do North Korea?

My brother, I dare say that you are deceived and lacking discernment, but I still love you.

 

[NotTheRock]

Accusations of antisemitism are a compliment, not an argument.

Wow.

Being an anti-Semite is a "compliment"? A true follower of Christ would never be anti-Semitic. This guy isn't Christian and should be banned or relegated to the non-Christian forums, in my opinion.

@Angelina

 

[TribulationSigns]

Did you forget that you said "Israel is the olive tree, and the gentiles are the branches."? That gives the impression that you believe we are grafted into Israel. Which, we are, but not the nation of Israel. Spiritual Israel.

Spiritual Israelite is correct, @Jericho. In my opinion, we Gentiles are grafted into Christ, for he "IS" Israel. He is the root of the Covenant Tree.

• “The Root of Jesse” (Isaiah 11:1, 10; Romans 15:12)
• “The Root of David” (Revelation 5:5; 22:16)

Because being the root means Christ is:

• the source,
• the origin,
• the foundation,
• the life-giver,
• the one who supports the entire tree!

So if we picture God's covenant people as a tree, Jesus is the root that gives life to the whole thing. Christ started with Jews (OT Covenant), but because of their rejection of Messiah The Prince at the Cross, their branch as a Kingdom Representation, was cut off. And Christ put the wild branch of Gentiles in its place under His Blood of the New Covenant. Once the last of the Gentiles has been secured, then that means the fulness of the Gentiles has came, Revelation 7:1-4) And so (or thus) all Covenant Israel shall be saved. That's it. No more salvation after this. No future salvation plan for nation Israel in the Middle East after this. Done. Finished.

 

[NotTheRock]

If you don’t stop posting such ideas, our Mr. @Zao is life may soon label you an anti semite, aswell. Beware.

You should be shown the exit. You're definitely NOT following Jesus; you're following the world.

 

[NotTheRock]

The argument that modern Israel isn't biblical Israel, etc., is a ploy of worldly Jew-haters to persecute Israel and its Jewish people. People pushing this Satanic ideology are not Christians and shouldn't be welcome here.

 

[covenantee]

Wow.

Being an anti-Semite is a "compliment"? A true follower of Christ would never be anti-Semitic. This guy isn't Christian and should be banned or relegated to the non-Christian forums, in my opinion.

@Angelina

What is your definition of an "antisemite"?

 

[Davy]

Hello,

I want to present the most strong and undeniable argument that makes it absolutely impossible for any prophecy to take place regarding “Israel” in the Bible. I know that there were many fine Christians in history who held such a doctrine, even today all those who are called dispensationalists. But now let me give you the argument. It is this:

Israel, as defined by the Bible (and this is the most important thing of all), doesn’t exist anymore.

Israel, the nation Israel we know about in the Old and New Testament, was created by God making a covenant with the people who came out of Egypt at Mount Sinai. This was the old covenant. This covenant doesn’t exist anymore, it is replaced by the new covenant. Therefore this Israel doesn’t exist anymore. Therefore, there are no prophecies left regarding this Israel.

Prove me wrong, if you can.

Kind regards and God bless.

Your false... theory is easy... to disprove, by The Bible.

So you shouldn't be so ready to offer challenges like the above because of your Biblical illiteracy.


Lord Jesus Christ speaking...

Matt 19:28
28 And Jesus said unto them, "Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
KJV

Rev 21:10-12
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
KJV

Rom 11:26-29
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, 'There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:'
27 For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
KJV

Jer 31:35-37
35 Thus saith the LORD, Which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is His name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before Me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before Me for ever.
37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.
KJV

Heb 8:8-13
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in My covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put My laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to Me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord': for all shall know Me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that He saith, 'A new covenant', He hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
KJV


Just as it is impossible for those ordinances of the sun and moon and stars to cease, because God promised they are forever, likewise the seed of Israel shall never... cease to exist.

Note those Matthew, Romans, Hebrews, and Rev.21 Scriptures are all NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES.

There are so many more... Bible Scripture examples of Israel's eternal existence in God's future Kingdom that for a believer to even suggest... that Israel is no more just because the old covenant has been replaced by The New Covenant, that one thinking that has to be either a totally 'new babe' still UNLEARNED IN GOD'S WORD, or... they are actually a TROLL COME HERE FROM A DIFFERENT RELIGION.

So which are you? a TROLL from Islam or another religion?