No Resurrection, No Millennium

[rwb]

Second Corinthians chapter 5:8. We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. When person dies, there soul immediately goes back to the Father. No one lies in hole in the ground. Only the heathen believe that nonsense. When Jesus returns 7th trump, this starts the millennium. Documentation, revelation chapter 20. The millennium is time of teaching for the spirtualty dead. Read revelation chapter 20 and Ezekiel chapter 44.

The spiritually dead are being instructed now, in this age of time, since the first advent of Christ we enter the Kingdom of God according to grace through faith when we hear the Gospel and believe in Christ. Before being born again by the power of the Gospel and Holy Spirit we were spiritually dead. Which is the reason Christ says, "Ye must be born again".

Ephesians 2:1 (KJV) And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Ephesians 2:4-10 (KJV) But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

It is our spirit, or that which gives us life that returns to God after our body dies. It is being made of flesh (body) and spirit (breath of life, mind) that we become living souls. When our body dies if the Holy Spirit is in us, we are present with the Lord as living (spirit) soul. If we die without the Spirit of Christ in us, our spirit returns to God without life, because life comes from the Spirit.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

John 6:63 (KJV) It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

 

[Gilligan]

They are not physically resurrected, they are ALIVE spiritually in heaven after death because God is God of the living, not the dead.

No, you're not. Neither spiritually nor figuratively.

Only the souls of the dead in Christ are alive in heaven now at the altar of the Lord.

How are they spiritually alive in heaven after physical death? Before death they had part in the first resurrection through Christ, who is the first resurrection of the dead to immortality and incorruption.

You're not resurrected either. The resurrection is not past. No bodies of any saints, other than of Jesus, is yet resurrected from the dead.

Spirit-only figurative resurrection is not in Scripture, but only in the vain imagination of figurative teachers.

There won't be a physical resurrection from the graves until the seventh angel sounds the hour coming on the last day of this age.

Ok.

Those who have done good, like the patriarch David, will spiritually return with the Lord from heaven to receive his resurrected immortal and incorruptible physical body from the grave for everlasting life.

False.

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:


Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The dead rise first from the graves, not descend from heaven. And they meet with them alive on earth, and all ascend together to meet the Lord in the air.

Going by what Scripture says, and taking God at His word, is how the truth of God is taught.

Writing your own teaching for yourself, doesn't make it true.

The dead in the graves in the hour coming, who have done evil shall also be resurrected for damnation.

With the rest of the dead after the Millennium of Christ, and the destruction Gog and Magog.

 

[Gilligan]

Like most who lack faith, you don't believe Christ when He tells us, whosoever lives and believes in Him SHALL NEVER DIE!

So long as we're living with Him righteously and holily, and not sinning with the world.

I'm not OSAS hypocrisy.

When I sin, and I do sometimes,

Good for you. Spoken like a true OSAS sinner. I believing boasting of still sinning, is the pseudo-humility OSAS rite of passage.

Anyone doing righteousness at all times, even as He is righteous, is is the worst of sinner and heretics to OSAS.

I have Christ my advocate who not only has forgiven but continues to forgive.

Forgiven past, present, and future sins, is the hypocrisy, that the world uses to mock the cross and blood of the Lamb.

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

He that is committing sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning.

No one committing sin of the devil, is also a son of God doing righteousness.

I'm not kept by my own ability to be good,

Then, you're not kept.


We know that whosoever is born of God is not sinning; but he that is begotten of God is keeping himself, and that wicked one is not touching him.

I am saved, and being saved, and shall be saved because I know and believe Christ,

Believing we're saved does not mean we are saved. The devil's believe and tremble. OSAS teaches sinning Christians not to tremble no more.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

They're not keeping themselves, nor cleansing themselves, because they have no fear of the Lord. They believe they are already forgiven for sinning against Him beforehand.

Sadly you show you have not this assurance, and so you vehemently respond to anyone who does have this blessed assurance,

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:


For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Blessed assurance of God is only for those ensuring their salvation is true, by ensuring they add works to their faith and never fall into sinning with the devil.

Believing we saved by faith alone, is as real as believing we are resurrected and reigning by spirit-alone.

It's all figurative imagination only.

What an odd answer? Do you not realize those who have died and spiritually gone to heaven HAVE ALREADY endured to the end?

Hahahahahaha!!! Beautiful!! A new one to add to the figurative spirit-only dead-faith alone hopper!!

Thanks much!

Now, there's a spirit-only figurative resurrection, reigning, and ending.

No more running to the end, because the end is already come.

I always knew OSAS teaches that they've already finished the race at the start, and now you say it.

Not only is the resurrection past, but now already arrived at the end.

Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

The Bible NEVER presents being saved as a work of man.

Not as, but with.

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Confessing with our mouth the Lord Jesus is the work of salvation, ministry, and prophecy, that we do from the heart of righteousness.

And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

A heart believing unto sinning and righteousness, and so continuing to sin from time to time, is lip service of the mouth to the Lord Jesus.

That doesn't save anyone.

You actually come across as one who fights against God and disparages His Word!

I fight your words, that fight Scripture.

And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

I make war with all those false apostles and heretical beasts, that make war against the righteousness and true holiness of God's salvation and justification in Jesus Christ.

Preaching dead faith alone to believe we are saved, while sinning with the devil, is but one of them.

Especially when saying they've already arrived.

Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

 

[Gilligan]

Mankind is body (dust) spirit (breath of life, mental acuity) and together called living souls.

Now you add natural man theology into the mix.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

The body is first formed by Christ, and when He breathes His Spirit into the body, man becomes a living soul in natural flesh and blood.

Man becomes a living soul by the breath of God, not the natural body of flesh and blood. That's the heresy of saying Adam had an immortal flesh and blood body, which means flesh and blood can inherit the kingdom of God.

If man's soul were the body and spirit, then Christ would never say the body is nothing and worthless.

You teach the basis for which JW's teach the soul is mortal with the body, so that the soul is dead with the dead body. That's how they teach Jesus' soul was dead for three days, until God resurrected Him and His body from the grave.

God is not ever dead nor resurrected, but only His body now made immortal flesh and bones.

Our body is our sou's housing and earthen vessel only.

You identify with your body like natural minded man, because you still sin with your body like the world.

The spirit (breath of life, mind) in man possesses ETERNAL LIFE that shall NEVER DIE when we are born again of Christ's life-giving Spirit. It is through His Spirit in us, giving us life

The Spirit of Christ gives our soul life, only so long as we are not wilfully sinning again and dead in sins and trespasses as before.

By sinning with the devil as before, we take down our crucified old man, and raise him to live again in sin.

That they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

A false apostolic beast, is one whose old man does live again, and yet goes on to minister the gospel of Christ for that of old man sinners.

He that was saved, and is not saved, and yet is preaching as though saved, while sinning with the devil.

Angels have NO body, because they are spirit, not flesh.

Spiritual bodies.

Which is how they are chained in hell, and the devil will be likewise chained and join them for a thousand years.

To be immortal speaks of man's flesh, not spirits.

So, you do teach JW mortality of soul.

The soul of man is created in the image of God, immortal. The soul can be separated from God and die without the Spirit of life, but that deadness is for eternity, if we are still sinning and not repenting on earth in the end.

That is why we must endure and overcome temptation unto the end. Which is not yet come for them alive and remaining on earth. Of course.

Hebrews 1:7 (KJV) And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

Spirit: πνεῦμα pneûma, pnyoo'-mah - a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively, a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, demon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Spirit:—ghost, life, spirit(-ual, -ually), mind.

O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

There is nothing more that I need to add here because without faith you shall NEVER understand.

I understand your teaching perfectly more and more all the time. I reject any of it, that is never said by Scripture.

 

[Gilligan]

Angels have not immortal bodies! Can you not even understand the difference between spirit and flesh?

Sure. Angels have angelic bodies in heaven, and men have flesh and blood bodies on earth.

Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

You just don't know the difference between what is written, and what you like to think in your own mind.

It's also why we, being spiritual beings as angels, are created a little lower than angels.

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

It's also how the Word humbled Himself and was made flesh, to be a little lower than the angels, by the seed of David and Abraham in the likeness of all men.

 

[Gilligan]

Angels have not immortal bodies! Can you not even understand the difference between spirit and flesh?

Angels have immortal bodies. Lucifer's is described in Ezekiel 28.

You don't understand the difference between your on bible and God's, because you think your word is God's.

 

[ewq1938]

Angels have immortal bodies. Lucifer's is described in Ezekiel 28.

Angels do not have immortal bodies. Lucifer/satan will be destroyed as well as his angels.

 

[Gilligan]

Angels do not have immortal bodies.

And so finally the real debate ends.

Scripture is only useful to you, if you can get it to agree with you. Otherwise, you dismiss it as useless to you.

 

[St. Joseph]

This is the first resurrection.

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

No one on this earth at this time, is already in the resurrection and as the angels in heaven. Therefore no man at this time is in the Millennium of Christ on earth.

Now if someone wants to say they are already in the resurrection, and as angels in heaven, then by all means do so, and be rebuked by Paul for overthrowing the faith:

Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

Or they can say the first resurrection of the blessed, is not the resurrection Jesus preaches.

When did this resurrection take place?
Paul warns against teaching resurrection has already taken place. He called it heresy. I will stick with Paul.

 

[Gilligan]

When did this resurrection take place?
Paul warns against teaching resurrection has already taken place. He called it heresy. I will stick with Paul.

True. So do I.

The first resurrection of the saints is not yet. The first resurrection of man, was Jesus Christ.

 

[ewq1938]

True. So do I.

The first resurrection of the saints is not yet. The first resurrection of man, was Jesus Christ.

Lazarus was resurrected before Jesus was.

 

[St. Joseph]

Lazarus was resurrected before Jesus was.

No. Lazarus was brought back to life to die again. After the resurrection there is no more death

 

[ewq1938]

No. Lazarus was brought back to life to die again. After the resurrection there is no more death

Then I recommend using a specialized term not just claiming Jesus was the first to be resurrected, because he wasn't.

 

[St. Joseph]

Then I recommend using a specialized term not just claiming Jesus was the first to be resurrected, because he wasn't.

Who else was raised from the dead to die no more? Look up definition of resurrection. And maybe borrow some concordances and commetaries. And do some serious studying

 

[ewq1938]

Who else was raised from the dead to die no more? Look up definition of resurrection. And maybe borrow some concordances and commetaries. And do some serious studying

I've done those things for years, which is why I know what a resurrection is. Take your own advice.

 

[Gilligan]

Lazarus was resurrected before Jesus was.

Biblical resurrection for doctrinal and prophetic purposes of judgement of souls, is only after our final death in this life.

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Many people in Scripture are raised back to natural living again from the grave. They go on to live again on earth, until the end of their natural time.

That's why it's Scripturally incorrect to say Lazarus was resurrected from the dead, coming out of his tomb still bound in graveclothes.

What's worse is a spirit-only resurrection delusion, used for OSAS guaranteed resurrection unto life by faith alone.

No one ensures their resurrection unto life, except by reward of doing good in Christ in this life.

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

 

[ewq1938]

That's why it's Scripturally incorrect to say Lazarus was resurrected from the dead, coming out of his tomb still bound in graveclothes.

That isn't correct. Lazarus was resurrected from the dead. It csannot be denied. You are merely redefining what a resurrection is

 

[Gilligan]

That isn't correct. Lazarus was resurrected from the dead. It csannot be denied. You are merely redefining what a resurrection is

God raising someone back to life on earth, to live out the rest of their days, is no more a resurrection of the dead, than is a spirit-only 'resurrection'.

That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

This is the only translated Scripture for resurrection of the dead, that does not say resurrection.

Jesus Christ is the first man resurrected from the dead. Saying any other man was 'resurrected from the dead' before Him is just argumentative.

Once Scripture of proof is quoted, I no longer foolishly argue about it.

At this point, I don't know why someone would argue otherwise, and insist in saying Lazarus was resurrected from the dead, but it really doesn't matter to me.

 

[WPM]

God raising someone back to life on earth, to live out the rest of their days, is no more a resurrection of the dead, than is a spirit-only 'resurrection'.

That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

This is the only translated Scripture for resurrection of the dead, that does not say resurrection.

Jesus Christ is the first man resurrected from the dead. Saying any other man was 'resurrected from the dead' before Him is just argumentative.

Once Scripture of proof is quoted, I no longer foolishly argue about it.

At this point, I don't know why someone would argue otherwise, and insist in saying Lazarus was resurrected from the dead, but it really doesn't matter to me.

Derek,

Are you saying Lazurus never rose from the dead?

 

[Gilligan]

Are you saying Lazurus never rose from the dead?

Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.