Not Under Law, But Under Grace

[GracePeace]

The Bible shows clearly that righteousness is connected with obeying the law of God. In the Old Testament, Moses said, “Then it will be righteousness for us, if we are careful to observe all these commandments before the Lord our God, as He has commanded us” (Deuteronomy 6:25).

Yup, Gentile believers who don't have or know Torah (Ro 2:14, 7:1) are deemed "doers of the Law" (Ro 2:6-16, 26, 27) bc the New Covenant is that God puts His Spirit in believers and causes them to walk in His statutes (Ezekiel), as "God Is Our Righteousness" (Jer 23:6) "apart from the Law" (Ro 3:21) if we walk in faith (Ro 8:4).

 

[LoveYeshua]

Jesus spoke when the old covenant was in existence. He told his disciples there was much more he wanted to tell them, more than they could bear, but when the Spirit of truth was sent, he would lead them into all truth. Paul had received the indwelling Holy Spirit
Paul held the law to the pristene level it was set at, so do I.
If I asked you If a person does not obey the Ten Commandments for example can they be righteous before God I wonder how you would respond?
I would like you to answer that, bearing in mind if you dwell on any impure thought you transgress those commands, as you do if you desire ANYTHING of your neighbours, whether material goods or a member of their household, as you do if you erect any graven image in your mind, or tell any even little fibs about another

Jesus did not speak only for the time of the old covenant. He said His words will not pass away, and even at the last day His words will judge (Matthew 24:35; John 12:48). The Spirit of truth does not cancel what Jesus said, but reminds us of His words and teaches us to live them (John 14:26).

When you ask if a person can be righteous before God without obeying the Ten Commandments, I will answer with what Jesus Himself said. He did not come to destroy the Law but to fulfill it, and He said not one part would pass away until all is fulfilled (Matthew 5:17–18). He also said clearly that if we want to enter into life, we must keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17) and "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." (Revelations 22:14) , the last verse are the words of Jesus ans was written between 70-95 AD. this shows that the message of Jesus did not change.

Yes, you are right that sin is not only in action but also in the heart. Jesus said even to look with lust is adultery, and to hate in the heart is murder (Matthew 5:21–28). This shows us how deeply we need God’s mercy, but it does not remove the call to obey. Abraham was counted righteous because he believed and obeyed God’s voice (Genesis 22:18).

So the truth is this: no one can claim righteousness while willfully disobeying God. We are called to repent, to seek forgiveness, and to walk in His will. That is why Jesus said, “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father” (Matthew 7:21).

 

[GracePeace]

Paul preached a spiritual message, that can only be understood through the Spirit:



Christ is the end of the law UNTO RIGHTEOUSNES for everyone who believeth Rom10:4



But now a righteousness APART FROM LAW has been made known to which the law and prophets testify. This righteousness comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe Rom3:21&22



What is the result in Paul’s view of not being under righteousness of obeying the law?



For sin shall no longer be your master for you are not under law but under grace Rom6:14

Do we then nullify the law by this faith?/righteousness of faith in Christ not obeying the law? Not at all! Rather we uphold the law Rom3:31

Spot on!
"...not like the Covenant I made with your fathers..." : "I will put My Spirit on you and cause you to walk in My Statutes", "serve not in the oldness of the letter but in newness of the Spirit", "it is God at work in you to will and to do for His pleasure".

If people are pleasing Him, that is "the whole Law" right there--if someone is pleasing to Him, because HE is their righteousness (Jer 23:6), how could those people be "lawless"? They can't be.
It's so sad to see lost people not grasping this.

 

[undergrace1]

Jesus did not speak only for the time of the old covenant. He said His words will not pass away, and even at the last day His words will judge (Matthew 24:35; John 12:48). The Spirit of truth does not cancel what Jesus said, but reminds us of His words and teaches us to live them (John 14:26).

When you ask if a person can be righteous before God without obeying the Ten Commandments, I will answer with what Jesus Himself said. He did not come to destroy the Law but to fulfill it, and He said not one part would pass away until all is fulfilled (Matthew 5:17–18). He also said clearly that if we want to enter into life, we must keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17) and "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." (Revelations 22:14) , the last verse are the words of Jesus ans was written between 70-95 AD. this shows that the message of Jesus did not change.

Yes, you are right that sin is not only in action but also in the heart. Jesus said even to look with lust is adultery, and to hate in the heart is murder (Matthew 5:21–28). This shows us how deeply we need God’s mercy, but it does not remove the call to obey. Abraham was counted righteous because he believed and obeyed God’s voice (Genesis 22:18).

So the truth is this: no one can claim righteousness while willfully disobeying God. We are called to repent, to seek forgiveness, and to walk in His will. That is why Jesus said, “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father” (Matthew 7:21).

But you transgress the letter of the Ten Commandments as we all do, and you do it much, IF you hold that law to the pristene level it is set at. So, as you transgress that law/stand guilty before it, how can you stand righteous before the TC?

 

[LoveYeshua]

But you transgress the letter of the Ten Commandments as we all do, and you do it much, IF you hold that law to the pristene level it is set at. So, as you transgress that law/stand guilty before it, how can you stand righteous before the TC?

You do Not know me! Do not presume to know me.

 

[undergrace1]

You do Not know me! Do not presume to know me.

Paul states the Ten Commandments are the letter that kills, the ministry of death and condemnation(2Cor3:6-9)
In Rom7:4-6 he states we must die to the law(righteousness of obeying it) in order to bear fruit for God. We are released from the law and serve in the new way of the Spirit, NOT the old way of the written code.
Which law?
In the next five verses he gives a personal example from his own life as to why he had to die to the law as he put it. The example he gave was one of the Ten Commandments. Why that one? Because it relates to the law no one but you and God need know you break.
I judge no one for heaven or hell, not my place. But I know why Paul stated the TC are the letter that kills, the ministration of death and condemnation, and so should every born again christian know. Incidentally, the people I have found over fifty years who most flagrantly transgress those commands are the ones who keep insisting you must obey them.

 

[GracePeace]

Paul states the Ten Commandments are the letter that kills, the ministry of death and condemnation(2Cor3:6-9)
In Rom7:4-6 he states we must die to the law(righteousness of obeying it) in order to bear fruit for God. We are released from the law and serve in the new way of the Spirit, NOT the old way of the written code.
Which law?
In the next five verses he gives a personal example from his own life as to why he had to die to the law as he put it. The example he gave was one of the Ten Commandments. Why that one? Because it relates to the law no one but you and God need know you break.
I judge no one for heaven or hell, not my place. But I know why Paul stated the TC are the letter that kills, the ministration of death and condemnation, and so should every born again christian know. Incidentally, the people I have found over fifty years who most flagrantly transgress those commands are the ones who keep insisting you must obey them.

Yeah, it's sad, bc "the Commandments are good and holy and spiritual", so people say "You must do them!", and they are right that we must do them, and, yet, it's a trap because they don't go far enough--they don't admit "there is no good in me" (from which I might bring forth "good" to satisfy the good and righteous demands of the Law), and cry out for a deliverer from their selves, and thank God for Christ, and recognize "only God is good", and if He works good in us, that is itself the whole kit n kaboodle!

 

[undergrace1]

Yeah, it's sad, bc "the Commandments are good and holy and spiritual", so people say "You must do them!", and they are right that we must do them, and, yet, it's a trap because they don't go far enough--they don't admit "there is no good in me" (from which I might bring forth "good" to satisfy the good and righteous demands of the Law), and cry out for a deliverer from their selves, and thank God for Christ, and recognize "only God is good", and if He works good in us, that is itself the whole kit n kaboodle!

The thing is, it is not a law written in ink anymore for the believer. It is a law written in their mind and placed on their heart by the Spirit. Simply means, in our minds we instinctively know how God wants us to live, we know he does not want us to murder, commit adultery, take his name in vain, covet, steal etc. You should not even have to read of law written in ink to know that. And because what is written in that law is now in our hearts, we in our hearts desire to live as God wants us to live, hence: Our sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more. Its an incredible covenant for those willing to accept it. God puts the desire in our hearts to live as he desires us to live, and so, he then removes righteousness of obeying the law from our lives. We have no need of it.

 

[amigo de christo]

Jesus did not speak only for the time of the old covenant. He said His words will not pass away, and even at the last day His words will judge (Matthew 24:35; John 12:48). The Spirit of truth does not cancel what Jesus said, but reminds us of His words and teaches us to live them (John 14:26).

When you ask if a person can be righteous before God without obeying the Ten Commandments, I will answer with what Jesus Himself said. He did not come to destroy the Law but to fulfill it, and He said not one part would pass away until all is fulfilled (Matthew 5:17–18). He also said clearly that if we want to enter into life, we must keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17) and "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." (Revelations 22:14) , the last verse are the words of Jesus ans was written between 70-95 AD. this shows that the message of Jesus did not change.

Yes, you are right that sin is not only in action but also in the heart. Jesus said even to look with lust is adultery, and to hate in the heart is murder (Matthew 5:21–28). This shows us how deeply we need God’s mercy, but it does not remove the call to obey. Abraham was counted righteous because he believed and obeyed God’s voice (Genesis 22:18).

So the truth is this: no one can claim righteousness while willfully disobeying God. We are called to repent, to seek forgiveness, and to walk in His will. That is why Jesus said, “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father” (Matthew 7:21).

many have turned the grace of GOD into lascviousness . and that , my friend , IS NO GRACE OF GOD .
many follow another jesus and that is a fact .
and if one follows another jesus then they follow another god . another fact .
TIME to do all to correct this untoward generation and fast . cause many aint gonna make it .

 

[GracePeace]

The thing is, it is not a law written in ink anymore for the believer. It is a law written in their mind and placed on their heart by the Spirit. Simply means, in our minds we instinctively know how God wants us to live, we know he does not want us to murder, commit adultery, take his name in vain, covet, steal etc. You should not even have to read of law written in ink to know that. And because what is written in that law is now in our hearts, we in our hearts desire to live as God wants us to live, hence: Our sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more. Its an incredible covenant for those willing to accept it. God puts the desire in our hearts to live as he desires us to live, and so, he then removes righteousness of obeying the law from our lives. We have no need of it.

Yup, not our own righteousness from the Law, but God's apart from the Law, yet God's righteousness apart from the Law still fulfills the righteous requirement of the Law is us (Ro 8:4), and we will be justified in the future judgment of works (Ro 2:6-16) if that is how we serve and please God, filled with God's goodness by trusting in Christ which results in a new life.

 

[undergrace1]

Yup, not our own righteousness from the Law, but God's apart from the Law, yet God's righteousness apart from the Law still fulfills the righteous requirement of the Law is us (Ro 8:4), and we will be justified in the future judgment of works if that is how we serve, filled with God's goodness by trusting in Christ (it results in a new life).

The believer is called to look away from themselves and to Christ. While you are doing this, you cannot be seeking to wilfully follow after the flesh, it is one or the other. Whilst you are looking to Christ, and trusting him to bring you to live an evermore holy life, via the sanctification of the Spirit, you will transgress the letter of the law for that letter kills(2Cor3:6) But, as long as we are looking to Christ, we will grow in holiness.

The more we look to Christ, and rely on the Spirit, the more the fruits of the Spirit grow in our lives(Gal5:22) Against that fruit there is no law(verse23) For that fruit is the embodiment of how God wants you to live your life.

For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh Phil3:3

 

[amigo de christo]

Yeah, it's sad, bc "the Commandments are good and holy and spiritual", so people say "You must do them!", and they are right that we must do them, and, yet, it's a trap because they don't go far enough--they don't admit "there is no good in me" (from which I might bring forth "good" to satisfy the good and righteous demands of the Law), and cry out for a deliverer from their selves, and thank God for Christ, and recognize "only God is good", and if He works good in us, that is itself the whole kit n kaboodle!

its a mess aint it . a big ol mess n these last and final hours upon earth .
But how we were warned it would be .
Guess from whence this great evil came . IF one said satan they would be right
BUT NOT enough to make it clear enough .
IT CAME from the sold out churches who now follow another jesus , another god
and beleive it to be GOD and HIS LOVE . only IT AINT .
it aint his grace they teach or know
Its only twisted doctrines that appease the ears of the hearers . TO keep the money coming in
and to have their best life now . ITS a total mess now . I never seen anything like it in all my days on earth .
What has become so quickly of this last generation , such a delusion that came cloaked
as though it were love and of God . BUT IT WAS OF SATAN and they have bought it hook line and sinker .
and many more are stumbling right into its love trap . Interfaith is of anti christ
this was always the goal , UNIFY THE RELIGIONS as one and have them serve an agenda . AND they about got it done too .

 

[GracePeace]

The believer is called to look away from themselves and to Christ. While you are doing this, you cannot be seeking to wilfully follow after the flesh, it is one or the other. Whilst you are looking to Christ, and trusting him to bring you to live an evermore holy life, via the sanctification of the Spirit, you will transgress the letter of the law for that letter kills(2Cor3:6) But, as long as we are looking to Christ, we will grow in holiness.

The more we look to Christ, and rely on the Spirit, the more the fruits of the Spirit grow in our lives(Gal5:22) Against that fruit there is no law(verse23) For that fruit is the embodiment of how God wants you to live your life.

For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh Phil3:3

100%

 

[GracePeace]

For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh Phil3:3

God gave Christ as the New Covenant, "Not like the Covenant I made with your fathers", so how can we fulfill the New Covenant obligations if we're not looking in to the simplicity of devotion to the New Covenant, Christ, but are, instead, led astray and away from Him Who called us by a false Gospel of Circumcision and the whole Law?
"Beholding Him we are transformed into the same Image".

I like the "put no confidence in the flesh"--because our confidence and trust is directed to be placed in Christ instead.

 

[undergrace1]

God gave Christ as the New Covenant, "Not like the Covenant I made with your fathers", so how can we fulfill the New Covenant obligations if we're not looking in to the simplicity of devotion to the New Covenant, Christ, but are, instead, led astray and away from Him Who called us by a false Gospel of Circumcision and the whole Law?
"Beholding Him we are transformed into the same Image".

I like the "put no confidence in the flesh"--because our confidence and trust is directed to be placed in Christ instead.

Many try to make themselves holy, in reality by obeying the law. That leads to either becoming crushed and broken, or being hard nosed and phariseeical, not able to practice what you preach

 

[GracePeace]

For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh Phil3:3

I really see this as important : boasting in Christ, no confidence in flesh, because your boast is what you have confidence in.

 

[LoveYeshua]

Paul states the Ten Commandments are the letter that kills, the ministry of death and condemnation(2Cor3:6-9)
In Rom7:4-6 he states we must die to the law(righteousness of obeying it) in order to bear fruit for God. We are released from the law and serve in the new way of the Spirit, NOT the old way of the written code.
Which law?
In the next five verses he gives a personal example from his own life as to why he had to die to the law as he put it. The example he gave was one of the Ten Commandments. Why that one? Because it relates to the law no one but you and God need know you break.
I judge no one for heaven or hell, not my place. But I know why Paul stated the TC are the letter that kills, the ministration of death and condemnation, and so should every born again christian know. Incidentally, the people I have found over fifty years who most flagrantly transgress those commands are the ones who keep insisting you must obey them.

Obeying the letter of the commandments or moral law that God Himself defines as the Covenant without thinking is not good, you must know why you obey and need to want to because you love God above all else and your neighbour.

You cannot die to the law, you need It, it sets you free from sin. Christ said to often "GO and sin no more". What is sin if you do not know the commandments and how to apply them properly in your daily life?

You know what Paul stated yes but why do you forget what Christ said about the law? it shall never pass away until the earth passes away to my knowledge the earth still stands! the commandments being the covenant are eternal.

​

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.....

Yes the ten Commandments, the Covenant!

 

[GracePeace]

Many try to make themselves holy, in reality by obeying the law. That leads to either becoming crushed and broken, or being hard nosed and phariseeical, not able to practice what you preach

Or even if not explicitly "under Law" (bc it's not as though all those you describe are trying to obey Moses), it's just as bad, because they nevertheless do not have the grace intended.

 

[amigo de christo]

Many try to make themselves holy, in reality by obeying the law. That leads to either becoming crushed and broken, or being hard nosed and phariseeical, not able to practice what you preach

you left out the largest group of all , of which both and all sides are now merging with .
The love god of this world . the all inclusive love god of this world . and it do holler judge not
any time a sheep exposes a sin within even the church .
IT has led this people now into the greatest snare of all and it promises them peace n safety . NOW IT IS THE DEVIL DOING THIS
So make no mistake about it .
IT hollers much about love , but it knows NOT the LOVE OF GOD .
IT hollers much about mercy , BUT KNOWS NOT the MERCY of GOD .
For it preaches a real broad sin accepting UNBELEIF accepting love and on that path they all
beleive they are coming to the same GOD . well in essence they are coming to the same god as ONE
BUT IT AINT THE GOD , its he who desired to be as GOD .
IT has made the hearts of this people , of all tribes , of all religoins and even much of christendom
to love a lie and to merge as one with all religoins and cries ye all serve the same GOD .
But it AINT GOD my friend they do serve and love , ITS the dark one who sure can appear as an angel of light
as can his ministirs even wear wool . WE BEING LIED too and they been pumping out the false solution all along .

 

[undergrace1]

Obeying the letter of the commandments or moral lad that God Himself defines as the Covenant without thinking is not good, you must know why you obey and need to want to because you love God above all else and your neighbour.

You cannot die to the law, you need It, it sets you free from sin. Christ said to often "GO and sin no more". What is sin if you do not know the commandments and how to apply them properly in your daily life?

You know what Paul stated yes but why do you forget what Christ said about the law? it shall never pass away until the earth passes away to my knowledge the earth still stands! the commandments being the covenant are eternal.

Who said the moral law had been abolished? Not me!! But it is no longer an external law engraved in stone, but an internal law written in the minds and placed on the hearts of believers. Because that has happened: Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more
The phrase Ten Commandments is old covenant, not new!! It speaks of looking to an external written down law. That is not where the law is for the believer, it is within them and instinctively known. As that is true, born again believers do not need a phrase such as ''Ten Commandments''