Now it's not me, but sin that lives in me

[marks]

Yes, I have. Now listen carefully.

Old Covenant: Law is holy. Had to be kept by knowledge of the mind. But the human nature had sin in it that was in opposition to the law, so a constant struggle. Desire to sin was in control. I do what I don't want to do.

New Covenant: Jesus, gives Holy Spirit to kill the old nature of sin, and creates a new reborn nature that has no sin in it. So I am free from sin, and thus free from law. The righteous requirements from the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh (old sinful nature) but according to the Spirit (in new nature).

The law of the Spirit of life in Christ, has made Paul free from the law of SIN and death. Romans 8:2.

5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins (old nature), and in Him (new nature) there is no sin. 1 John 3:5

Figure out what Jesus is actually saying here:

32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

33 They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can You say, ‘You will be made free’?”

34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

You are not saying anything here that speaks towards an exegesis of the verse I'm pointing to.

And nothing you've written to me shows any meaning of Paul's words there.

Now it is No More I, but sin that lives in me.

No long Paul doing the evil, how is it no longer Paul? And how is that sin live in him? If this is speaking of when Paul, or anyone, was under the Mosaic Law, then why does Paul write that the evil done is no longer him? And instead, it is the sin that lives in him?

Much love!

 

[marks]

New Covenant: Jesus, gives Holy Spirit to kill the old nature of sin, and creates a new reborn nature that has no sin in it. So I am free from sin, and thus free from law. The righteous requirements from the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh (old sinful nature) but according to the Spirit (in new nature).

This is true, but we still live in corrupt flesh.

The flesh lusts against the spirit, and the spirit against the flesh, Paul also wrote.

Actually, I just noticed you said, "and thus free from law".

According to earlier in the chapter, we are no longer under the Law because we died, not because we are freed from sin.

We are both no longer under the Law, and freed from sin, because we have died in Christ.

Much love!

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

This is true, but we still live in corrupt flesh.

If it has been cut out and removed, just as the Old Testament claimed that it would be (for True Jews and True Christians), why would a person live within corrupt flesh?

Marks . . . Flesh, in this context, represents the "Sinful State of Man." We have to know the difference between when Scripture is referencing the Sin Nature (which is to be cut out and removed - See Colossians 2:9-15 - any Translation will suffice) and actual human flesh.

 

[marks]

If it has been cut out and removed, just as the Old Testament claimed that it would be (for True Jews and True Christians), why would a person live within corrupt flesh?

Marks . . . Flesh, in this context, represents the "Sinful State of Man." We have to know the difference between when Scripture is referencing the Sin Nature (which is to be cut out and removed - See Colossians 2:9-15 - any Translation will suffice) and actual human flesh.

I'd be curious if you say the same thing after doing a word study of Sarx. I'm wondering where you are thinking the corruption of the flesh is found?

Much love!

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

I'd be curious if you say the same thing after doing a word study of Sarx. I'm wondering where you are thinking the corruption of the flesh is found?

Much love!

That's the exact word that I am talking about. You're saying that the Bible that taught me this is incorrect?

 

[marks]

That's the exact word that I am talking about. You're saying that the Bible that taught me this is incorrect?

No, I'm not saying that, I'm saying this.

It was after I read carefully every place that this word is used that I came to the conclusion that the corruption of the flesh is just that, the flesh, this body we live in, has become corrupted by sin.

So the corruptible will put on incorruption. This does not mean a "3rd party Sin Nature" will be transformed in our resurrection, rather, the corruptible, that is, our body, will put on incorruption. Is this talking only about the fact that these bodies are subject to decay? Paul then add, and the mortal will put on immortality. So I think the corruptible refers to the susceptability of our body to sin, and the mortal refers the suseptability of our body to death. Sin and death, in the body.

Looking at how 'soma', body, is used in relation to sin and flesh is also interesting.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Yes, I have. Now listen carefully.

And yet not a word about my verse from the OP.

I don't mind discussing these other passages, it's all great truth! But in this thread my interest is in that particular verse. You don't seem to want to discuss that particular verse.

Much love!

 

[marks]

If it has been cut out and removed, just as the Old Testament claimed that it would be (for True Jews and True Christians), why would a person live within corrupt flesh?

Marks . . . Flesh, in this context, represents the "Sinful State of Man." We have to know the difference between when Scripture is referencing the Sin Nature (which is to be cut out and removed - See Colossians 2:9-15 - any Translation will suffice) and actual human flesh.

As He is, so are we in this world.

Jesus is God's only Begotten Son, Who was incarnated in flesh, but not sinful flesh. We are children begotten of God, and we are living in flesh, but in our case, corrupted by sin.

We are no longer in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God live in you. (Romans 8:9)

Which is to say, we once derived our being alive from being people born from Adam, a mind, a soul, living in a body, corrupted by sin. Now we are alive in Christ, and derive our life not from being in a body, but from being in His Spirit.

The life of the body goes on, with it's mind, and it's ways. We are brand new people. IF we are living out our spiritual life by trusting Jesus to make it so, then this overcomes whatever the Adamic old man would do. If we are not, then it will fill in the gap.

The checkpoint is the mind. The thoughts either conform to Christ or they don't.

That is how that passage makes sense. We take captive every thought to the obedience of Christ. We are taking them captive to obey Christ, so we are His brothers, and children of our Heavenly Father. There are thoughts to take captive, stronghold to pull down, because we still live in corruptible and corrupted flesh.

Much love!

 

[Behold]

34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

Reader...

Here is what Christ is explaining... symbolically

A slave is not born again, so, he is not in the body of Christ, which is the "Temple of the Holy Spirit."

Next..

A son abides forever... So, a "son" is a "son of God", and to abide forever, is to have eternal life. And to have this, is to exist as born again, which makes you a son of God.

If you are a slave to sin, its because you are living under the law, and that is the person who is the SLAVE, that is UNDER THE LAW.
The power of SIN is the LAW, and your are its SLAVE, if you are not born again.

Now, if Jesus makes you free.....>He is making you free from bondage to sin, which is the reason for it, and that bondage is found and created by the dominion of the law, and being UNDER IT.

So, the born again is not a slave to the law, because "Christ has made you FREE from the LAW, by putting you "under GRACE".

Next...

But there is a potential problem.....
As you can be made free, but still be a slave to the law, which causes you to be a confessing sinning born again Christian.

So, you have to get out of THAT.
As that, is usually a result of "falling from GRACE", or removing yourself from "under Grace" and putting yourself back into the FLESH. = back under the law.
What LAW is that? The law of SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS.
That's how you "fall".

Every person who believes they can lose their salvation, has fallen from Grace.
Every person who is trying to keep themselves saved, has fallen from Grace.
Every person who is trying not to lose their salvation, has fallen from Grace.
See, in all these cases, JESUS THE CHRIST is not being TRUSTED to deal with that, on your behalf.
So, you are dealing with it, and that is why you are fallen "from.....GRACE".
You are become apart from the Truth, and are fallen back into the flesh.
Paul says you are "bewitched".

 

[Behold]

And this is the Faith of Abraham . . . exactly. And it is THIS Faith that we are to possess.

WE are to possess this faith, but not to try to keep ourselves saved.

In other words, the teaching that, "as long as i hold unto my faith, i wont go to hell", is the theology of the Legalist.
= The self saver, as this person has faith in Faith, but not faith in Christ.

See, the only reason a person will end up in heaven, is if they are born again.
That is why you go, or you dont.

Its not about working, and commandment keeping, or holding unto anything....its about God making you righteous with the Blood of Jesus, which keeps you righteous, always.

Once you are born again, you are always born again, and that is the ONLY Reason God lives in you, and its the only reason you will go to heaven.

 

[Behold]

If it has been cut out and removed, just as the Old Testament claimed that it would be (for True Jews and True Christians), why would a person live within corrupt flesh?
Marks . . . Flesh, in this context, represents the "Sinful State of Man." We have to know the difference between when Scripture is referencing the Sin Nature (which is to be cut out and removed - See Colossians 2:9-15 - any Translation will suffice) and actual human flesh.

The sin nature, is the fallen adamic nature, that is our "old man" that is "crucified with Christ", and we are to "reckon it dead".

What has been circumcised from the Flesh, (separated apart from the old nature" is our "incorruptible part", that is our "born again new Creation" "in Christ".

 

[Behold]

We are both no longer under the Law, and freed from sin, because we have died in Christ.

Much love!

Yes.


Reader....

Our "risen man", the New Creation, is under new ownership, as we are "bought with a price", being blood bought.
Our New Creation, is "as Christ is, so are the born again, in this world'.

So, as Christ is what?
What = as He exists in and AS = the Kingdom of God.
We are there, when we are born again to exit as the same, as "lights of the world" with Christ being THE LIGHT of the World.

The reason that only about .00001% of Born Again Believers, ever come into "perfection" is because most Christians do not believe that they are in the world but not of it..
They believe they are in the world, trying to be different.
See that?
So, we have to exist as if we are what God said....>"not OF the World".
This literally means we are to exist in our MIND, with the understanding that we are already IN CHRIST, Seated in Heavenly Places, a New Creation, who actually EXIST within= the Spirit of God.

So, that's too much Christian Mysticism for most of you that find this post....but that is the reality Check for us all, who are born again.
You have to see yourself as God has BIRTHED YOU TO BE, as that is how HE SEES YOU...at all times, and forever...
= In the world but not of it.
Sinless.
Righteous.
In a body on a planet, but existing literally in a different Kingdom.

Till you see it, till you live there in the mind of your Faith, you will struggle and fall.
Right Believing is the end game, Saint.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

No, I'm not saying that, I'm saying this.

It was after I read carefully every place that this word is used that I came to the conclusion that the corruption of the flesh is just that, the flesh, this body we live in, has become corrupted by sin.

So the corruptible will put on incorruption. This does not mean a "3rd party Sin Nature" will be transformed in our resurrection, rather, the corruptible, that is, our body, will put on incorruption. Is this talking only about the fact that these bodies are subject to decay? Paul then adds, and the mortal will put on immortality. So I think the corruptible refers to the susceptibility of our body to sin, and the mortal refers to the susceptibility of our body to death. Sin and death, in the body.

Looking at how 'soma', body, is used in relation to sin and flesh is also interesting.

Much love!

These are deep questions, and I honestly don't have the desire to go round and round. However, I will say, that there is no way that the Indwelling Holy Spirit is willing to reside within a body that is corrupt, as you say. If we are purified by Christ, having put off the Body of the Sins of the Flesh . . . the Sinful Nature (the structure of sin, which is the Sin Nature), then we are Purified.

I know that you're a very smart person, and I also know that you are more Biblically aware than most others, here. Thus, it fascinates me that you aren't seeing the obvious. Or, are you simply stirring the pot?

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

That is why you go, or you dont.

We go to heaven if the Curse of Adam and Eve has been removed, if the debt for sin has been paid, and if a person has received the Indwelling Holy Spirit. This is the sprinkled blood that expiates sin in the Old Testament.

 

[marks]

These are deep questions, and I honestly don't have the desire to go round and round. However, I will say, that there is no way that the Indwelling Holy Spirit is willing to reside within a body that is corrupt, as you say. If we are purified by Christ, having put off the Body of the Sins of the Flesh . . . the Sinful Nature (the structure of sin, which is the Sin Nature), then we are Purified.

I know that you're a very smart person, and I also know that you are more Biblically aware than most others, here. Thus, it fascinates me that you aren't seeing the obvious. Or, are you simply stirring the pot?

Not seeing the obvious? I don't know about that.

Stirring the pot? Yes, but in a good way!

If you don't wish to continue the discussion that's cool, no worries!

Much love!

 

[marks]

I also know that you are more Biblically aware than most others

If that's true, perhaps you may consider again what I'm saying.

How important is this? Perhaps for some not as much, I don't know. We each have a faith in God that is very personal to ourselves, I think! But for me, this understanding seems to me to be the plain teaching in a number of passages. And that those passages become very difficult when people try to understand then in other ways.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

In the likeness of sinful flesh. Not in the likeness of a sin nature.

Romans 6:5-7
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.

That the body of sin might be destroyed (lit. rendered powerless).

When you look at the usage of "flesh" in the New Testament, it is overwhelmingly referring to the body and things to do with the physicality of our lives. Our ancestry, our earthly existence, like that.

Much love!

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

If that's true, perhaps you may consider again what I'm saying.

Woops! I just conflated two different threads! (and this is turning into a funny nightmare!)

 

[marks]

Woops! I just conflated two different threads! (and this is turning into a funny nightmare!)

I was trying to figure out how this related!

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

In the likeness of sinful flesh.

Romans 6:5-7
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.

That the body of sin might be destroyed (lit. rendered powerless).

When you look at the usage of "flesh" in the New Testament, it is overwhelmingly referring to the body and things to do with the physicality of our lives. Our ancestry, our earthly existence, like that.

Much love!

Yep, I hear all that you're saying. And I get it (I believe).

Question: When we say, "I was living in the Flesh back in the day." Are we saying that we were living in our body back in the day, or that we were living in sin? And if we're living in sin, which of course that's what this phrase is pointing to, then we are living in sin because the Sinful Nature has yet to be cut out and removed. If we're living in sin, it means that our Hearts have not been Redeemed by Christ.

I know that you know all of these things. I really doubt that I'll ever teach you anything. As I said, you're not stupid when it comes to the Bible. You know it well (IMO).