NYC Area -- Need Matthew 18:16-style "WITNESSES" to a MORAL ISSUE that I am having within life, involving a family member.

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BarbellBarry

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I am a 34-year-old male who has drawn closer to God. After waking up from a coma in 2016, I woke up with what is medically-known as "acquired savant syndrome."

Far from becoming rigidly savantish in a particularized, autistic kind of way, I truly "woke up." I opened up the Bible, particularly the New Testament, and understood everything. Including those things that most Christians at all levels within religion and theology may miss.

Truly, the most vital, undervalued part of the entire New Testament, is Matthew 18:15-17.

For if every sermon or mass were about this and only this, every week, for 20 years. We would turn an entire generation back towards God and--just as importantly--towards correct, harmonious integration with each other as a society.

Anyway. This brings me to some of my own issues. It is a great goal of mine to start from the "bottom," and end up making a world-wide difference in our UNDERSTANDING of THE WORD of God.

I am almost at a point where I perceive myself to be as a prophet--who may be able to genuinely offer new insights not yet attained en masses by the body of worshippers--all to draw us closer towards the teachings of Christ.

I don't know if I'm there yet! At least once or more during every AGE, there is a prophet brought again, whose work is known by its effects--who is known by his fruits. Only time--and fate--will tell. Only GOD, that is, will tell--as what has happened to me what truly extraordinary.

But. This is all I have to cover about that--but in fact, I would, at this time, turn to cover and address a matter of imperfection within my life. That is, involving the troubles between myself and other family members.

I need your help, my Christian brothers and sisters. I have an extremely small family--at this moment, it is only my mother and I, who are in "constructive relatedness". However, a lifetime of what I consider to be abusive treatment, has resulted in things finally coming apart. She is a Christian too--a Catholic, like me. Polish.

However, when it comes to applying the MORAL LAW, as given essentially in the Bible, onto our lives, I find that I am the recipient of offense (that is, of sin).

This brings me to one of the most important things put into print, in all time--practical instructions, on how to turn wrongs into situations that are sufficiently PROCESSED, energetically, socially, spiritually and MORALLY, such that dignity is restored to the person's soul. Christ stated clearly, in Matthew 18:15, that when we are wronged by someone who is supposed to be our own ally, we are to initially approach them, and seek to correct the matter.

However, often (about 70 percent of the time, I would say, from experience), the human being you are dealing with does not want to freely and voluntarily recognize their own fault, or admit it. Thereby, they lose the benefit of strict confidence and privacy, and Matthew 18:16 tells us what to do next.

In such a case, you are to find a "WITNESS," so to speak--that is, substantive JURORS (more accurately, by today's verbage)verbiage, who--as real jurors do--listen to BOTH sides, wherever possible, who establish the FACTS, and who apply the presumptively known and understood MORAL LAW, AS APPLIED to the specific case, in order to determine the guilt of a person, for any specific moral charge.

This step is vital, in processing a toxic person out of our lives. Where this step is step 2 in the process, step 3 of course is Matthew 18:17, which has us publicize the matter to the assembly--that is, the functional community- or society-at-large, including the involvement of any moral authority, leader or figurehead, by that point, to AFFIRM that our understanding of the moral law, as applied, was in fact both correct and also correct-as-applied; and, where the accused STILL remains recalcitrant, the final step, step 4, is, according to Matthew 18:17, to OSTRACIZE the person,, to cut them off from communication. (Remember, in Christianity, as a proper matter--and many have confusion around this matter--there IS NO forgiveness where there is no repentance, and where there is no atonement--or at least, the sufficient volition and will to provide atonement--pursuant to a wrongdoer GENUINELY BEING sorry, with REAL remorse, and with real "teshuvah" being offered.)

I have approached one who I accuse as being a wrongdoer in my life. This person has not taken responsibility, or confessed.

Do I simply publicize the matter and/or cut her off now, outright?

NO. For this would be premature! For how do I know I am right?

What I say, cannot establish FACT--for the words of ONE generally constitute hearsay.

There is always a third party that is required, in order to CERTIFY the wrongdoing of another, as an apparent fact. Without such substantive "trial" and fact-finding, it is OUR sin when we just move straight to step 4, skipping steps 2 and 3.

I am CALLING upon my Christian brothers and sisters, I need ONE TO TWO WITNESSES, within the New York area, to come MEET with me, to HEAR my story, and to WITNESS the issue at hand.

By this--you will learn, and I will show you, by example, HOW to process interpersonal problems of YOUR OWN, of OTHERS, in such a way as to be the most "karmically", spiritually and God-wise EFFECTIVE PROTOCOL KNOWN TO MAN, EVER GIVEN.

I WILL SHOW YOU and share with you the deepest, most cutting-edge, real life, and usable, effective tenets and principles of the Bible, establishing everything that is necessary to thrive within this life, to thrive within a community of your choosing, happily, to STOP getting ABUSED and STOP patterns of other people's offenses and insults. And, this being a substantive MITZVAH of sorts, to help a brother of the faith in such way, I will make PRAYERS to GOD for YOU, I will owe YOU a personal FAVOR of whatever kind that you NEEd, if you ever need someone in the future similar to witness your things or otherwise "have your back". Well, here you are.


I need ONE OR TWO of you, for a SPIRITUAL, GODLY MATTER, of conducting a MATTHEW 18:16-STYLE WITNESSING. THIS IS NOT CHURCH, THIS IS WHAT CHURCH WAS MEANT FOR--REAL LIFE.

"Therapists" are a modern secular intervention, designed essentially to superficially discuss a matter without resulting in rapid, immediate results.

The value of your contribution, as a real life witness OF THE CHRISTIAN COMMUNITY, is the contribution of being a CAUSE in the matter of a FAMILY getting to be REUNITED AGAIN.

YOURE BASICALLY PLAYING A TONED DOWN VERSION OF DR PHIL, BUT WITH A STRONGER CHRISTIAN TWIST!

REACH OUT TO ME TODAY, AND LETS CONNECT. IN-PERSON MEETINGS ARE BY FAR THE BEST, BUT ALWAYS OPEN TO VIRTUAL OR PHONE IF THE CHEMISTRY AND ALSO POWER AND EFFECTIVENESS OF GOOD WITNESSING IS ALSO READILY AVAILABLE FOR OUR SITUATION, BY THESE MEANS.

You guys are the best. I am glad I can turn to you.

-Jon
 

Scott Downey

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Thank you, God bless you you're my first commenter! Appreciate you
Any Mathew 18 style of shunning involves first the offended person, then several fellow church members, then the WHOLE church group, otherwise you're just a false prophet making an accusing judgement against another person.

See you are supposed to be involved inside of a church to do such a thing, not just hand picking out sympathetic 'jurors' to your cause.
 

Patrick1966

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Does your mother attend Mass at a local Parish? If so, perhaps you might consider talking to a priest there who can then talk to your mother.

Before ostracizing your mother or anyone else, please consider that you too may be judged by the same standard by Jesus that you judge her. I don't know her sins against you but you might consider loving her anyway and treating her with love and kindness even if she doesn't reciprocate. By doing so, you demonstrate that you are truly a follower of Christ. Good luck and may God bless you and your mother!
 

BarbellBarry

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"Any Mathew 18 style of shunning involves first the offended person, then several fellow church members, then the WHOLE church group"

This is surely the case. Because without "certification" of the offense of a wrongdoer, it is not righteous ostracization pursuant to a valid determination of one's guilt---but premature judgment paired with unmerited gossip.

"See you are supposed to be involved inside of a church to do such a thing, not just hand picking out sympathetic 'jurors' to your cause."

If it were so, then how may heathen ever resolve interpersonal conflicts among each other?

The principle that Christ is teaching us, there, is simply that


"In LIFE, both generally and virtually without exception (there are some, they are noted elsewhere within scripture), when someone who is your presumtpive ally WRONGS you (instructions are different for evil people, mockers and slanderers),

you try to work it out privately with them first, lest you prematurely slander them to other people, before it is certified by SOME THIRD PARTY THAT, essentially, it isn't JUST YOU.

"But when that person fails to make right with you then, you are not yet clear to condemn them! For you may be the one with the "beam in your eye," here, unable to actually see, and many people who are actually wrong often think they are right.

Thereby--you get one of two WITNESSES, who come in and say, "Bob, Nancy told me that you stole from her business. Is this true, Bob?"

In proceedings, affidavits made with sworn statements are still hearsay. In order for truth to be admissible, the other party must have an opportunity to speak, and the original Claimant must be cross-examined.

This is all that Yeshua is telling us. Let a THIRD party come in and HEAR the story from BOTH SIDES.

Why is this important? Because once we begin to publicize the wrongdoing of the accused, guess what it's called if it's not corroborated?
GOSSIP. HEARSAY. SLANDER.

And we would be the ones "missing the mark," ie, SINNING, there.

With a third party who was there to witness what it is that's really going on, any subsequent reporting about a person's wrongdoings are accompanied by THIRD PARTY CERTIFICATION that the accuser, in essence, isn't just talking out of his butt.

It's all designed to protect the dignity of all parties and preserve truth.

Moreover, that "step 2" in the process establishes the FACTS. Step 3, establishes and AFFIRMS the MORAL LAW that is applicable, as the "assembly"--meaning nothing more than the collection of people that constitute the community, it doesn't HAVE TO be a church, strictly (He is telling the Church WHAT to do, it's a universal principle on how to solve your interpersonal problems); this is because whereas in step 2 only peer level people are involved (ie, a jury of your peers, who determines the facts, not the law), in step 3, the assembly elder (ie, the moral leaders and authorities confirm that was the person did is wrong, in the way that a JUDGE determines whether the applied LAW is correct, as applied onto facts which, by that stage in the process, are no longer in dispute, due to the witnesses' corroboration).
It's all very smart, very well-done, and is designed to prevent OURSELVES from becoming guilty of any separate additional offense,, while we move the guilty party along thru to the point of condemnation.

The need is to balance the dignity of all involved, with the need to process wrongdoer OUT of the community. Judgment by the assembly is akin to judgment by the court; publicization of the matter is akin to posting the judgment on the rolls, so that it is public information that is CERTIFIED as TRUE, after the accused got all opportunities to defend himself--which he shouldn't anyway, unless it's a false accusation, as Christ tells us "agree with your plaintiff," instead of defending merely for honors sake.

You guys can't walk around with partial or rigid understandings of scripture. This is why the world still looks like this, instead of like the Kingdom of Heaven being made manifest on Earth.

Alright, so like I was saying--
"Hey Christian brothers and sisters, I have an issue with a fellow Christian. This person declined to repent when I tried to work it out privately."

This is where one or two, from the community at large, says, "Is that so? Let me step in and make sure for myself that this is really true!"

What's the cost of not doing so?

For consider. That Christ FORBADE any other outcome, other than an escalation from step 1 to step 2, to happen. There IS no option B, when it is a recalcitrant person involved. Christ doesn't say "forget about it, blind mercy to everyone." Wrong doctrine. Causes pain and dysfunction at all levels. Time to wake up, Planet Earth, to what Christ was really teaching you.

This is also why he told his followers to follow specific instructions when going out to towns to preach.
 

BarbellBarry

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Does your mother attend Mass at a local Parish? If so, perhaps you might consider talking to a priest there who can then talk to your mother.

Before ostracizing your mother or anyone else, please consider that you too may be judged by the same standard by Jesus that you judge her. I don't know her sins against you but you might consider loving her anyway and treating her with love and kindness even if she doesn't reciprocate. By doing so, you demonstrate that you are truly a follower of Christ. Good luck and may God bless you and your mother!
Recall, essentially, the quotes, "I have come to divide mother against daughter, father against son, etc"; and,

"I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. And I wish the world were already burning."

Most Christians today are engaged in a false Christianity, that involves the excessive giving of unmerited forgiveness, where no repentance is made. Neither Judaism not Christianty support such a thing. Christ Himself specified, "when they sin against you seven times, it is [only] when they also turn around and REPENT the full SEVEN timed for each sin, admitting wrongdoing and being remorseful, that they are to be forgiven seven times."

No other paradigm works. Everything else is abuse. Christ does not permit the trampling of your dignity, nor does he except a superhuman resilience on the part of all people to take abuse, when the capacity for this is not authentically there.

You are enabling sin, and teaching the person that basically, "we're fine with that." Don't do it. That's the cancer that eats all of you up in the end. Wake up.
 

Enoch111

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See you are supposed to be involved inside of a church to do such a thing, not just hand picking out sympathetic 'jurors' to your cause.
This is correct. That passage involves individuals within a local church. But if that is not applicable, then one can simply go to the offending party and let that person know what the problem is. If there is repentance, fine. If not, leave the matter with God and move on.