Of Love, Of Boys, Of Babies

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bukka

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I never got that the Song of Songs was about teen girls laying in bed dreaming of sex with boys. It's a good way to ruin a life, actually. To dwell on that.

I see, marks, that you haven't read the Song of Songs recently. It's filled with sexual imagery. At one time the rabbis forbid its reading to men younger than 30. Why not read it sometime.
 

marks

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I see, marks, that you haven't read the Song of Songs recently. It's filled with sexual imagery. At one time the rabbis forbid its reading to men younger than 30. Why not read it sometime.

Interestingly, I've read it probably 3 or 4 times in the past week. First, it was next up in my lunchtime reading. Then, I was listening to preacher who had some interesting thoughts on part of it, so I read it again, than, after giving myself a couple of days to mull it over, read it again. And a short book like that, no point to not read the whole thing in a sitting, to keep the flow, the context.

But no, the Song of Songs isn't like that. It's not anything like your imaginations of teen girls laying in bed dreaming of sex with boys. How many boys did you have in mind? Just general, just sex with some boy. Nothing like, I am by beloved, and my beloved is mine! Nothing.

That you would compare the Song of Songs to a little ditty about teenage fornication! And even to justify writing it!
 

bukka

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Interestingly, I've read it probably 3 or 4 times in the past week. First, it was next up in my lunchtime reading. Then, I was listening to preacher who had some interesting thoughts on part of it, so I read it again, than, after giving myself a couple of days to mull it over, read it again. And a short book like that, no point to not read the whole thing in a sitting, to keep the flow, the context.

But no, the Song of Songs isn't like that. It's not anything like your imaginations of teen girls laying in bed dreaming of sex with boys. How many boys did you have in mind? Just general, just sex with some boy. Nothing like, I am by beloved, and my beloved is mine! Nothing.

That you would compare the Song of Songs to a little ditty about teenage fornication! And even justify it!

Then why did the rabbis forbid men under 30 from reading the Song of Songs? What is that we're seeing about it that you are not? My poem, by the way, is not about teenage fornication.
 

marks

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Then why did the rabbis forbid men under 30 from reading the Song of Songs? What is that we're seeing about it that you are not? My poem, by the way, is not about teenage fornication.

Why rabbis did anything has nothing to do with this.

Your poem speaks for itself. You compare it to the Song of Songs. That to me is outrageous. And then you want to justify it by, "The rabbis . . ."

The rabbis have said a great many things. Do you agree with all things said by rabbis?
 

bukka

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Why rabbis did anything has nothing to do with this.

Your poem speaks for itself. You compare it to the Song of Songs. That to me is outrageous. And then you want to justify it by, "The rabbis . . ."

The rabbis have said a great many things. Do you agree with all things said by rabbis?

I see you're trying to make moral imputations against me again. The Song of Songs is filled with sexual imagery and that's why the rabbis forbid men under 30 from reading it. That's a simple historical fact. Icxn was the one who compared the imagery of my poem as it relates to the divine with the Song of Songs. I think he's quite correct.

Do I have to agree with all the things of the things said by the rabbis? No. Do you have to accept the Golden Rule of Jesus as well as the rest of his teachings? On this I still don't know your answer. Why not accept the Golden Rule? Why do you try to degrade all the people who disagree with you? Why can't you have more patience with others? More love?
 

marks

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Why not accept the Golden Rule?
What is it with you?

Now I don't "accept the golden rule" - I wonder whether you know what that is, and what it means - but I don't accept it because I think your poem is inappropriate?

And then more ad hominems?

God authored the Song of Songs, and you authored you ditty about teen girls laying in bed dreaming of sex with boys. How dare you use the divine authorship of Scripture to justifty that.

You can write whatever you want, I don't care. That's fine. But I'm going to call it as I see it, and that too is love.

Why do you try to degrade all the people who disagree with you?

More ad hominem. And Complex Question. I strongly suggest that you might study up on logical fallacies. Not only does it make for a better discussion, if you don't use them, but learning the rules of logic can really help to clarify your thoughts if someone has been feeding you fallacies.

Once we can spot the errors in our thinking, we can become much more effective.
 

marks

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The Song of Songs is filled with sexual imagery
So I can write whatever trashy thing I want, and then say, Well, the Song of Songs!

And rather, it has some references of sexual imagery, but the great majority of the book is not.
 

icxn

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I never got that the Song of Songs was about teen girls laying in bed dreaming of sex with boys. It's a good way to ruin a life, actually. To dwell on that.
I understood it as an allegory about virtues (girls) coming together with the mind and producing the fruit of righteousness...

It wasn't my intention to cause a dissension.

Forgive me,
icxn
 
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marks

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I understood it as an allegory about virtues (girls) coming together with the mind and producing the fruit of righteousness...

It wasn't my intention to cause a dissension.

Forgive me,
icxn
Hi icxn,

There is nothing needing forgiveness, not in my mind! We all have our ideas about things, no worries!

:)

Much love!
 

Jay Ross

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It is interesting, icxn, how many are manichean in their view of the body. They either worship it or hate, or, more usually have a love hate relationship to it. I think of humanity as a unity of the body and of the spirit, and that behind it all, there is the divine and that we must reach out to it. It is too bad that hatred destroys so much in life.

You surprise me with the choice of some of the words that you use. I need an open dictionary beside me to get what you have said.

There is a lot of depth in your thinking.

Shalom

PS: - you are right about marks and his dualism, as he is either black or white on many subjects.
 

bukka

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Thank you, Jay. Socrates said that the unexamined life is not worth living. In order to do that we must plumb into the depths of things. And I'm sure you know that if a thing cannot be plumbed or examined, it is probably false. Too bad that much of modern thinking is that way.

It's also sad that dualistic thinking impoverishes the mind as it does. It doesn't ever make a person happy either. The person eventually becomes rigid and angry, eventually ending in hatred. Rigidity destroys.

Thanks again for your thoughts.
 

marks

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You surprise me with the choice of some of the words that you use. I need an open dictionary beside me to get what you have said.

There is a lot of depth in your thinking.

Shalom

PS: - you are right about marks and his dualism, as he is either black or white on many subjects.
You could at least ping me if you are going to talk about me, otherwise you are saying weird things about me behind my back.

Just the same your characterizations should be taken as just that, your characterizations, which tell us about you, and not about me.

Dualism? Perhaps before leaping on the "labeling" bandwagon, a moment's reflection on what this means maybe?

What would give you even a moment's thought about whether I love or hate my body, or maybe even have a more balance perspective?

Sometimes people's presumption is just beyond anything I would have ever expected! Imaging someone impugning me for my self-image of my body, which is completely unknown by them, just because . . . on a Christian forum!

All in for the sake of casting aspersions on someone who disagrees with you on eschatoloty.

And then just spilling out this "dualism" as if that somehow negates my viewpoints that differ from yours.

Great thread here. Edifies from start to finish!

Not.
 

Jay Ross

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You could at least ping me if you are going to talk about me, otherwise you are saying weird things about me behind my back.

Just the same your characterizations should be taken as just that, your characterizations, which tell us about you, and not about me.

Dualism? Perhaps before leaping on the "labeling" bandwagon, a moment's reflection on what this means maybe?

What would give you even a moment's thought about whether I love or hate my body, or maybe even have a more balance perspective?

Sometimes people's presumption is just beyond anything I would have ever expected! Imaging someone impugning me for my self-image of my body, which is completely unknown by them, just because . . . on a Christian forum!

All in for the sake of casting aspersions on someone who disagrees with you on eschatoloty.

And then just spilling out this "dualism" as if that somehow negates my viewpoints that differ from yours.

Great thread here. Edifies from start to finish!

Not.

Marks,

My above post is based on my years of interaction with you where I have observed your dualism. I did not define where your dualism was prevailing, nor did I attack you per sa on what you believed.

However, I detect that you are angry at me, for agreeing with someone else that you have, like all of us, dualistic tendances, by your pointed attack on me. So be it marks, and as you say, our posts are more of a reflection about us than about the person we are commenting on.

So be it marks.

May the Lord continue to draw you to himself and reveal to you, like he is doing also with me as well as with many others, our weaknesses and faults that we all need to work on so that we grow more and more like Him.

As for our respective personas, I am letting God polish mine for me and am trusting that I am compliant enough to the end, to enable that to happen

Shalom