On being a Saint

[Episkopos]

Now Catholics believe that a saint comes along once in a generation...and Protestants think everybody who accepts free salvation is a saint.

I believe neither are true.

I am posting this thread for those who are interested in advancing their walks towards saintliness. God has ordained that there will always be a remnant who do so.

I will not engage in futile discussions from people with carnal and religious agendas who seek to defend their presumed status. If I could delete these annoyances that are sure to arise...I would. :)

So what is a saint?

A saint is one who walks like Jesus...in resurrection power. There are few saints in a society such as we find ourselves...but there could be many more if only people would...

1. acknowledge that they are not yet saints (humble themselves)
2. take their calling seriously and seek the Lord.


To be a saint means walking where few have walked...yet are able to do so because of the deeper gift of grace....which is the keeping power of God...after the surrender of all one is and has.

The purpose of this thread is to inform and encourage potential saints to that higher calling in Jesus Christ that Paul sought after so much. What Paul sought for in his day...people mock today as pointless. Is it any wonder then that so few saints are being molded in our time?

 

[Episkopos]

"The Saint Must Walk Alone" By A.W. Tozer

Most of the World’s GREAT SOULS have been lonely. Loneliness seems to be one price the saint must pay for his saintliness.

Enoch, Noah, Abraham and Moses all walked a path quite apart from their contemporaries even though many people surrounded them.

The prophets of pre-Christian times differed widely from each other, but one mark they bore in common was their enforced loneliness.

Jesus died alone in the darkness hidden from the sight of mortal man and no one saw Him when He arose triumphant and walked out of the tomb, even though many saw Him afterward and bore witness to what they saw.

The cheerful denial of loneliness proves only that the speaker has never walked with God without the support and encouragement afforded him by society. The sense of companionship that mistakenly attributes to the presence of Christ may and probably does arise from the presence of friendly people. Always remember: you cannot carry a cross in company. Though a vast crowd surrounds a man, his cross is his alone and his carrying of it marks him as a man apart. Society has turned against him; otherwise he would have no cross. No one is a friend to the man with a cross. “They all forsook Him and fled.”

The loneliness of the Christian results from his walk with God in an ungodly world, a walk that must often take him away from the fellowship of good Christians as well as from the unregenerate world. His God-given instincts cry out for companionship with others who can understand his longings, his aspirations, and his absorption in his love for Christ; and because within his circle of friends there are so few who share his inner experiences he is forced to walk alone.

The man who has passed on into the divine Presence in actual inner experience will not find many who understand him. A certain amount of social fellowship will of course be his as he mingles with religious persons in regular activities of the church, but true spiritual fellowship will be hard to find.

The truly spiritual man is indeed something of an oddity. He lives not for himself but to promote the interests of Another. He seeks to persuade people to give all to his Lord and asks no portion or share for himself. He delights not to be honored but to see his Saviour glorified in the eyes of men. His joy is to see Jesus promoted and himself neglected. He finds few who care to talk about that which is the supreme object of his interest, so he is often silent and preoccupied in the midst of noisy religious shoptalk. For this he earns the reputation of being dull and over-serious, so he is avoided and the gulf between him and society widens. He searches for friends upon whose garments he can detect the smell of myrrh and aloes and cassia out of the ivory palaces, and finding few or none he, like Mary of old, keeps these things in his heart.

It is this very loneliness that throws him back upon God. His inability to find human companionship drives him to seek in God what he can find nowhere else. He learns in inner solitude what he could not have learned in the crowd-that Christ is All in All.

Two things remain to be said about the man that is in this state of loneliness. First, he is not a haughty man, he is not holier-than-thou, and he is not an austere saint. He is likely to feel that he is the least of all men and is sure to blame himself for his loneliness. He wants to share his feelings with others and to open his heart to some like-minded soul who will understand him, but the spiritual climate around him does not encourage it, so he remains silent and tells his grief to God alone.

The second thing is that the lonely saint is not the withdrawn man who hardens himself against human suffering and spends his days contemplating the heavens. The opposite is true. His loneliness makes him sympathetic to the approach of the brokenhearted and the fallen and the sin-bruised. Because he is detached from the world he is all the more able to help it.

The weakness of so many modern Christians is that they feel too much at home in the world. In their effort to achieve restful “adjustment” to an unregenerate society they have lost their pilgrim character and become an essential part of the very moral order against which they are sent to protest. The world recognizes them (modern Christians) and accepts them for what they are. This is the saddest thing that can be said about them. They are not lonely, but neither are they saints.

- A.W. Tozer

 

[Enoch111]

...and Protestants think everybody who accepts free salvation is a saint.

The Bible calls the children of God -- the redeemed ones of God -- saints. That is their standing before God.

We know that there was much carnality in the church at Corinth. But that did not change the fact that the believers there were called saints. Not called "to be" saints at some future date ("to be" was inserted by the translators), but simply "called saints".

Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called [to be] saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours

Once again you are manufacturing your own theology while contradicting Scripture.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

"The Saint Must Walk Alone" By A.W. Tozer

Most of the World’s GREAT SOULS have been lonely. Loneliness seems to be one price the saint must pay for his saintliness.

Enoch, Noah, Abraham and Moses all walked a path quite apart from their contemporaries even though many people surrounded them.

The prophets of pre-Christian times differed widely from each other, but one mark they bore in common was their enforced loneliness.

Jesus died alone in the darkness hidden from the sight of mortal man and no one saw Him when He arose triumphant and walked out of the tomb, even though many saw Him afterward and bore witness to what they saw.

The cheerful denial of loneliness proves only that the speaker has never walked with God without the support and encouragement afforded him by society. The sense of companionship that mistakenly attributes to the presence of Christ may and probably does arise from the presence of friendly people. Always remember: you cannot carry a cross in company. Though a vast crowd surrounds a man, his cross is his alone and his carrying of it marks him as a man apart. Society has turned against him; otherwise he would have no cross. No one is a friend to the man with a cross. “They all forsook Him and fled.”

The loneliness of the Christian results from his walk with God in an ungodly world, a walk that must often take him away from the fellowship of good Christians as well as from the unregenerate world. His God-given instincts cry out for companionship with others who can understand his longings, his aspirations, and his absorption in his love for Christ; and because within his circle of friends there are so few who share his inner experiences he is forced to walk alone.

The man who has passed on into the divine Presence in actual inner experience will not find many who understand him. A certain amount of social fellowship will of course be his as he mingles with religious persons in regular activities of the church, but true spiritual fellowship will be hard to find.

The truly spiritual man is indeed something of an oddity. He lives not for himself but to promote the interests of Another. He seeks to persuade people to give all to his Lord and asks no portion or share for himself. He delights not to be honored but to see his Saviour glorified in the eyes of men. His joy is to see Jesus promoted and himself neglected. He finds few who care to talk about that which is the supreme object of his interest, so he is often silent and preoccupied in the midst of noisy religious shoptalk. For this he earns the reputation of being dull and over-serious, so he is avoided and the gulf between him and society widens. He searches for friends upon whose garments he can detect the smell of myrrh and aloes and cassia out of the ivory palaces, and finding few or none he, like Mary of old, keeps these things in his heart.

It is this very loneliness that throws him back upon God. His inability to find human companionship drives him to seek in God what he can find nowhere else. He learns in inner solitude what he could not have learned in the crowd-that Christ is All in All.

Two things remain to be said about the man that is in this state of loneliness. First, he is not a haughty man, he is not holier-than-thou, and he is not an austere saint. He is likely to feel that he is the least of all men and is sure to blame himself for his loneliness. He wants to share his feelings with others and to open his heart to some like-minded soul who will understand him, but the spiritual climate around him does not encourage it, so he remains silent and tells his grief to God alone.

The second thing is that the lonely saint is not the withdrawn man who hardens himself against human suffering and spends his days contemplating the heavens. The opposite is true. His loneliness makes him sympathetic to the approach of the brokenhearted and the fallen and the sin-bruised. Because he is detached from the world he is all the more able to help it.

The weakness of so many modern Christians is that they feel too much at home in the world. In their effort to achieve restful “adjustment” to an unregenerate society they have lost their pilgrim character and become an essential part of the very moral order against which they are sent to protest. The world recognizes them (modern Christians) and accepts them for what they are. This is the saddest thing that can be said about them. They are not lonely, but neither are they saints.

- A.W. Tozer

Wonderful! I copied this into my personal documents to keep.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The Bible calls the children of God -- the redeemed ones of God -- saints. That is their standing before God.

We know that there was much carnality in the church at Corinth. But that did not change the fact that the believers there were called saints. Not called "to be" saints at some future date ("to be" was inserted by the translators), but simply "called saints".

Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called [to be] saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours

Once again you are manufacturing your own theology while contradicting Scripture.

Zip! Right over your head...

 

[Episkopos]

The Bible calls the children of God -- the redeemed ones of God -- saints. That is their standing before God.

We know that there was much carnality in the church at Corinth. But that did not change the fact that the believers there were called saints. Not called "to be" saints at some future date ("to be" was inserted by the translators), but simply "called saints".

Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called [to be] saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours

Once again you are manufacturing your own theology while contradicting Scripture.

Actually...once again you are espousing what you have been indoctrinated into by the traditions of men rather than what is biblical...and according to the truth.

Becoming a saint of the Lord used to be a goal for believers to attain. In both man -made traditions of Catholicism and it's cousin Protestantism this pursuit is discouraged....in the former because it is seen as too difficult...and in the latter because it is seen as already attained.

Both espouse a lie.

We are to SEEK the narrow way that few can enter into. We are to SEEK the face of the Lord. Sanctification is not something automatic.

I liken it to joining the French foreign legion where you give up your nationality and identity to take on a new identity in Christ. Very few are accepted into the legion. The way is narrow there too.

The saints are the elite in the church...given as an example to the others to follow.

The saints do not become so by inherited blood (bloodline)...but by their own blood they have spilled for the Lord.

 

[APAK]

"The Saint Must Walk Alone" By A.W. Tozer

Most of the World’s GREAT SOULS have been lonely. Loneliness seems to be one price the saint must pay for his saintliness.

Enoch, Noah, Abraham and Moses all walked a path quite apart from their contemporaries even though many people surrounded them.

The prophets of pre-Christian times differed widely from each other, but one mark they bore in common was their enforced loneliness.

Jesus died alone in the darkness hidden from the sight of mortal man and no one saw Him when He arose triumphant and walked out of the tomb, even though many saw Him afterward and bore witness to what they saw.

The cheerful denial of loneliness proves only that the speaker has never walked with God without the support and encouragement afforded him by society. The sense of companionship that mistakenly attributes to the presence of Christ may and probably does arise from the presence of friendly people. Always remember: you cannot carry a cross in company. Though a vast crowd surrounds a man, his cross is his alone and his carrying of it marks him as a man apart. Society has turned against him; otherwise he would have no cross. No one is a friend to the man with a cross. “They all forsook Him and fled.”

The loneliness of the Christian results from his walk with God in an ungodly world, a walk that must often take him away from the fellowship of good Christians as well as from the unregenerate world. His God-given instincts cry out for companionship with others who can understand his longings, his aspirations, and his absorption in his love for Christ; and because within his circle of friends there are so few who share his inner experiences he is forced to walk alone.

The man who has passed on into the divine Presence in actual inner experience will not find many who understand him. A certain amount of social fellowship will of course be his as he mingles with religious persons in regular activities of the church, but true spiritual fellowship will be hard to find.

The truly spiritual man is indeed something of an oddity. He lives not for himself but to promote the interests of Another. He seeks to persuade people to give all to his Lord and asks no portion or share for himself. He delights not to be honored but to see his Saviour glorified in the eyes of men. His joy is to see Jesus promoted and himself neglected. He finds few who care to talk about that which is the supreme object of his interest, so he is often silent and preoccupied in the midst of noisy religious shoptalk. For this he earns the reputation of being dull and over-serious, so he is avoided and the gulf between him and society widens. He searches for friends upon whose garments he can detect the smell of myrrh and aloes and cassia out of the ivory palaces, and finding few or none he, like Mary of old, keeps these things in his heart.

It is this very loneliness that throws him back upon God. His inability to find human companionship drives him to seek in God what he can find nowhere else. He learns in inner solitude what he could not have learned in the crowd-that Christ is All in All.

Two things remain to be said about the man that is in this state of loneliness. First, he is not a haughty man, he is not holier-than-thou, and he is not an austere saint. He is likely to feel that he is the least of all men and is sure to blame himself for his loneliness. He wants to share his feelings with others and to open his heart to some like-minded soul who will understand him, but the spiritual climate around him does not encourage it, so he remains silent and tells his grief to God alone.

The second thing is that the lonely saint is not the withdrawn man who hardens himself against human suffering and spends his days contemplating the heavens. The opposite is true. His loneliness makes him sympathetic to the approach of the brokenhearted and the fallen and the sin-bruised. Because he is detached from the world he is all the more able to help it.

The weakness of so many modern Christians is that they feel too much at home in the world. In their effort to achieve restful “adjustment” to an unregenerate society they have lost their pilgrim character and become an essential part of the very moral order against which they are sent to protest. The world recognizes them (modern Christians) and accepts them for what they are. This is the saddest thing that can be said about them. They are not lonely, but neither are they saints.

- A.W. Tozer

If this represents you Epi then you are in my company and I'm in yours. I humbly, although assertively say I resemble this post too a great degree. These words show my spiritual life to a large extent and I'm not boasting as I write these words. It is a true blessing. These words give me more great hope that indicated I'm on the right path and walking as a I should.

I was just pondering over the last day or so, why I'm this way and still feeling alone although at peace with my Father......even with a great spouse as my companion....these words help me to understand a great deal why...and about myself.

I would have given you 10 likes if that were possible. Just ditto this post 9x more and I shall...;)

Bless you,

APAK

 

[Episkopos]

In the NT Paul describes the 'as yet carnal' believers as a distinction to the ones who are "spiritual."

1 Cor. 2:15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, but he himself is judged by no one.

Gal. 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

The spiritual ones are meant to help, encourage and be an example to they who are "yet carnal."

1 Cor. 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

(Just look at all the carnality on this board...and watch for they who protest on this thread)

This distinction between walking in the power of the flesh (while appearing to be godly) as any man does and walking in the same power that Jesus walked in is not understood in the modern church because of the lack of saints... Even if there are some that come forward, they are rejected as they don't fit in with the human agendas that the modern religious system has established for themselves. The phenomenon is that the carnal have taken over the modern church. As such they keep the Holy Spirit at bay. The church has shed it's holy origins and adopted a man-made tradition...just as in the days of Jesus among the religious leaders of that time.

So there should be no surprise there.

The kingdom of God remains a revolutionary concept that is little understood and resisted by ignorance even among they who think to proclaim it. They that resist the saints and the Holy Spirit do so thinking they are doing God a service.

It has always been this way.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

If this represents you Epi then you are in my company and I'm in yours. I humbly, although assertively say I resemble this post too a great degree. These words show my spiritual life to a large extent and I'm not boasting as I write these words. It is a true blessing. These words give me more great hope that indicated I'm on the right path and walking as a I should.

I was just pondering over the last day or so, why I'm this way and still feeling alone although at peace with my Father......even with a great spouse as my companion....these words help me to understand a great deal why...and about myself.

I would have given you 10 likes if that were possible. Just ditto this post 9x more and I shall...;)

Bless you,

APAK

Can I join your boat with E? I feel the same.

 

[Episkopos]

Can I join your boat with E? I feel the same.

Bless you sister. :) <><

 

[Episkopos]

If this represents you Epi then you are in my company and I'm in yours. I humbly, although assertively say I resemble this post too a great degree. These words show my spiritual life to a large extent and I'm not boasting as I write these words. It is a true blessing. These words give me more great hope that indicated I'm on the right path and walking as a I should.

I was just pondering over the last day or so, why I'm this way and still feeling alone although at peace with my Father......even with a great spouse as my companion....these words help me to understand a great deal why...and about myself.

I would have given you 10 likes if that were possible. Just ditto this post 9x more and I shall...;)

Bless you,

APAK

God bless you brother! :) May you be filled with His peace...a peace that only the Father can give us.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

In the NT Paul describes the 'as yet carnal' believers as a distinction to the ones who are "spiritual."

1 Cor. 2:15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, but he himself is judged by no one.

Gal. 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

The spiritual ones are meant to help, encourage and be an example to they who are "yet carnal."

1 Cor. 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

(Just look at all the carnality on this board...and watch for they who protest on this thread)

This distinction between walking in the power of the flesh (while appearing to be godly) as any man does and walking in the same power that Jesus walked in is not understood in the modern church because of the lack of saints... Even if there are some that come forward, they are rejected as they don't fit in with the human agendas that the modern religious system has established for themselves. The phenomenon is that the carnal have taken over the modern church. As such they keep the Holy Spirit at bay. The church has shed it's holy origins and adopted a man-made tradition...just as in the days of Jesus among the religious leaders of that time.

So there should be no surprise there.

The kingdom of God remains a revolutionary concept that is little understood and resisted by ignorance even among they who think to proclaim it. They that resist the saints and the Holy Spirit do so thinking they are doing God a service.

It has always been this way.

In the second book of Corinthians you see that these 'carnal' Christians, even though gifted (1 Cor. 1) repented. It reminds me of these verses of being sanctified, and being saved. They aren't quite sealed yet.

Hebrews 2:11

For both He who sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of one, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren,


Hebrews 10:14

For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.


Acts 2:47

praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.


1 Corinthians 1:18

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.


2 Corinthians 2:15

For we are to God the fragrance of Christ among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing.

 

[Episkopos]

What did Paul mean when he said "I have not yet attained". This goes so contrary to all the religious certainty in our time.

Phil. 3:12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been perfected, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.

This is how I feel. Even though I have walked with the Lord in the light in Zion for long periods and have had many spiritual encounters with the Lord...I'm still not at that place where I can enter into the Spirit ...in the midst of the fire...so as to remain there permanently. The promise given to me by the Lord was that I would walk in that place before I die. So I press on towards the high calling of Christ. (take a look at my signature on the bottom) :)

I know I have not yet attained precisely because of my experience with God. Those who have nothing to compare things to can make up a theory. But real life is different.

Of course the religious ones never explain what Paul was talking about....when he said that he has not yet attained...attained what? Or that he feared being disqualified. These have no idea of the spiritual race of faith..whatsoever.

 

[marks]

The saints are the elite in the church...given as an example to the others to follow.

There it is, the simple statement of elitism.

Completely opposite to what the Bible teaches.

Saint = Holy one . . . so . . . if the other Christians besides you are not saints . . . to you . . . they are unholy ones?

Just a few passages we can put this elitism to the test:

1 Cor 16:1 "Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye."

Is God only concerned for the needs of the elite?

Rom 8:27 "And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God."

The Spirit only makes intercession for the elite?

Romans 12:13 "Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality."

Again, only for the elite?

Romans 15:25 "But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints."

To the elite?

Romans 16:15 "Salute Philologus, and Julia, Nereus, and his sister, and Olympas, and all the saints which are with them."

Only greet the elite?

Ephesians 4:11-13
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

For the perfecting of the elite? No. For the perfecting of the holy ones.

Hebrews 2:10-12
For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.

Is this to say then that Jesus IS ashamed of the "second class Christians"? The un-saints, the unholy?

No. He has made us holy. We can become more holy in our behavior, but we do not make ourselves more approved by God because we do good works. We are only servants, doing our duty.

Much love!
Mark

 

[Episkopos]

In the second book of Corinthians you see that these 'carnal' Christians, even though gifted (1 Cor. 1) repented. It reminds me of these verses of being sanctified, and being saved. They aren't quite sealed yet.

Hebrews 2:11

For both He who sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of one, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren,


Hebrews 10:14

For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.


Acts 2:47

praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.


1 Corinthians 1:18

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.


2 Corinthians 2:15

For we are to God the fragrance of Christ among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing.

Amen. We are all BEING saved. The Christian life is a walk...not a one-step. We all need to continue in the faith of Christ is to saved in a permanent sense.

Sanctification is by friendship with a holy God. Those that seek the Lord and interact with Him by the Spirit are BEING sanctified.

How many people don't think it is possible to actually encounter the Lord? Yet these same people will claim to have a personal relationship with God...because they have been indoctrinated to say that and even think that.

But we have this opportunity...because so few even see the race...to get the chance to qualify seeing there are so few that are interested in eternal life and the Lord in particular.

So we press on in the race of faith.

 

[Episkopos]

There is more than one step to holiness...although we could say that holiness is in two steps.

There is the free gift of grace...as a free sample...when we are born again by the Spirit...which is Christ in you..the HOPE of glory. The qualifies us to run the race of faith. The false teaching says that this is the first and final step of salvation. But it is but the very first step in a long road and fight into the kingdom of God.

Then there is the full surrender to God whereby we purchase without money the full measure of grace which is the resurrection life of Jesus. This is what it means to "put on" Christ or to believe INTO Christ.

To the Laodiceans...which are many in the modern church...Jesus counsels to BUY EYE SLAVE...that you may see.

Rev. 3:18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see.

Jesus is speaking here of the full measure of grace...a measure that the Laodiceans ASSUMED they had already...which of course they didn't. The vast majority of believers in our time are as these...and don't know it because they are not humble or teachable not to mention indoctrinated.

Now I have a rhetorical question for all the nay-sayers who are numerous...If everything ends at the "free gift" of grace then why does Jesus say..."buy from Me"?

Ask the Lord about this...He is the One doing the knocking after all. He has to do this because too many believers are not asking, seeking and knocking themselves to actually enter INTO Christ.

 

[Episkopos]

Continuing on the theme of "buying" from the Lord (as opposed to a free gift) we have the parable of the 10 virgins.

All 10 are the same but for one detail. Five of them have bought oil for their lamps. These are wise. They have sought out the Lord and received the full measure of grace in order to be a light in the world. So these qualify as saints.

The other five are happy with empty vessels...no doubt because they were indoctrinated into believing that they were already saved in that condition. They did not purchase anything only taking what was free. These were foolish. These are rejected as saints.

Mat. 25:8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

Is not buying the oil for our lamps not another step AFTER having received the free lamp?

So then the first step of salvation leading to sanctification is like being given a printer.. which is given as a free gift. The next step is to get ink for the printer without which there is no good use for the printer. But most people don't bother doing this. They think just having the printer is enough...that this justifies them. Now, the ink is very expensive... costing you everything you have and are. Few are interested because of the high cost. So then at judgment people will be asked for all the papers that were printed. The ones who didn't bother to get any ink will have nothing...and be rejected.

 

[marks]

@Episkopos

Again, I'll say, I am in full agreement with you that many Christians do not all seem the same.

We agree that God calls us to holiness.

We agree that we are to put away the things of the flesh.

We agree that we are to actively pursue after righteousness.

That is, assuming that we agree on these!

But who are any of us to judge the motives of other's hearts?

To say that "I'm better than that person, I'm more holy"? To say, "I'm one of the elite, because I try harder"?

Your "race", as you put it, well, your words:

The qualifies us to run the race of faith. The false teaching says that this is the first and final step of salvation. But it is but the very first step in a long road and fight into the kingdom of God.

This turns salvation into salvation by works. It's to say, you've not been given salvation as a free gift, the gift was a ticket into the race to compete, to run the race and if you run it right, you can be saved. That's your works, your doing, by your great desire and greater effort you climb into holiness, and that saves you.

But Ephesians 2 declares salvation itself as a free gift. And no, I'm not just going on surface reading, check the syntax.

To be a saint means walking where few have walked...

It always comes down to this.

Yet the Bible says that God has raised us up Together and seated us Together in the heavenly realm with Christ, that if we've died with Christ, been raised with Him, we are Hid with Him in God. All of us. Together. We are all in the heavenly realm.

Not just a few 'elites'.

Much love!
mark

 

[marks]

How many people don't think it is possible to actually encounter the Lord? Yet these same people will claim to have a personal relationship with God...because they have been indoctrinated to say that and even think that.

Straw Man.

We become Christians BECAUSE we believe it is actually possible to encounter the Lord. And encounter Him we do!

Those who think it's not possible to encounter the Lord, these do not have faith, these are not Christians.

Much love!

 

[farouk]

Straw Man.

We become Christians BECAUSE we belive it is actually possible to encounter the Lord. And encounter Him we do!

Those who think it's not possible to encounter the Lord, these do not have faith, these are not Christians.

Much love!

It's a matter of truth, right? John 14.6.