On being a Saint

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marks

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A saint doesn't work hard to walk with God. He IS there already. A saint walks in the power of God whereby what others can't do...becomes easy.

Matthew 11:28-30 YLT
28 `Come unto me, all ye labouring and burdened ones, and I will give you rest,
29 take up my yoke upon you, and learn from me, because I am meek and humble in heart, and ye shall find rest to your souls,
30 for my yoke [is] easy, and my burden is light.'
 

Episkopos

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Col 1:2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Is the church made up of saints only? Of course not. Most are faithful brethren...learning to be well founded in the faith. As in the Corinthian church there are carnal members and spiritual members. The hope being that the carnal brothers will be inspired to emulate and learn from the spiritual brothers and advance in the life of God.

All brothers are to be faithful. That's where we start and end...in faithfulness. After that we progress from righteousness unto holiness.

To make this easier to understand i'm using an amplified translation here...

Rom. 6:19 Because of the weakness of your human nature, I am using the illustration of slavery to help you understand all this. Previously, you let yourselves be slaves to impurity and lawlessness, which led ever deeper into sin. Now you must give yourselves to be slaves to righteous living so that you will become holy.

The clergy laity split isn't right. All are brothers. It's just that some brothers have entered into Christ (so very few in our time) and others are still walking in their own strength.

It is advisable NOT to try reasoning these things with the carnal mind...since spiritual things are foolishness to these.

Blessed be the Lord who has provided this holy walk for they who look to Him in faith. We have this treasure in earthen vessels.
 
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CoreIssue

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There is a big difference between the popularly obsessive theme of salvation ...and of sanctification. This thread is about sanctification in both purity (as a gift) and maturity...apprehending that for which we have been apprehended.

Salvation is to remain faithful till the end. So nobody is finally saved until the finish line. That is the essence of what a race is. We now have a living HOPE (so often confused with faith) ....for a good end to our race of faith..which is moment by moment, hour by hour, day by day.

During the time we are here, however, we can either advance in the Lord or waste our time. The servant who buried his talent is obviously of the latter sort. Those who advance do so by grace through faith...working out their salvation with fear and trembling...knowing the terror of facing the Lord in judgment.

Sanctification does not require salvation but if one receives salvation they are sanctified.

Plenty of evil people in the Bible was set apart God for his purposes.

No evil person is ever say. Simple fact is when saved you ceased to be an evil person. You are set apart and changed.

The sanctified person continues to grow in sanctification.

Salvation is a one-time event. OSAS.

No matter how you try to talk around the you are talking salvation by works.
 

Episkopos

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1 Cor. 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

Both theirs and our what? The Lord! Who is the "ours" and who is the "theirs? The saints...ours....the faithful brethren....theirs. He is Lord of both.

Jesus is Lord of both types of believers...the ones called to be saints and ...as well as...all who call upon the name of the Lord.

Reading skills aside....Paul here makes a distinction between saints and others.

There is something to contend for...something to seek after and attain like Paul did and all the saints. How many are more advanced in the spiritual life than Paul was?...and yet he wisely sought to attain (win) Christ after all his encounters with God. How many modern believers are just supremely foolish to consider themselves above Paul and the necessity of winning Christ?

The reason why there are so few saints is that there are so few seekers.
 
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CoreIssue

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1 Cor. 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

Both theirs and our what? The Lord! Who is the "ours" and who is the "theirs? The saints...ours....the faithful brethren....theirs. He is Lord of both.

Jesus is Lord of both types of believers...the ones called to be saints and ...as well as...all who call upon the name of the Lord.

Reading skills aside....Paul here makes a distinction between saints and others.

There is something to contend for...something to seek after and attain like Paul and all the saints.

The reason why there are so few saints is that there are so few seekers.
Paul did not travel alone. So he, his companion and the Saints at Corinth is theirs and ours.

Gnosticism is getting in your way of understanding.
 

marks

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Salvation is to remain faithful till the end. So nobody is finally saved until the finish line.

Hebrews 3:14
For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

"made partakers"

In the Greek, "made", or "have become" is in the Perfect tense, the verb tense that denote a once for all completed action.

It's like a bell. You cast a bell, hand a clapper in it, and hang the bell. But it's never been rung. Then someone comes and rings it. It can never be unrung. It's a "rung bell". That's an example of the perfect tense.

So either was have, for all time, or have not become partakers with Christ. How to know the difference? Its if we continue in faith to the end.

Here again, it's not that some are saved, and then not saved. It's that those who are saints remain believing.

If we've become partakers with Christ, this is in the same terms as the rung bell. It doesn't get to become unrung.

Much love!
Mark
 

marks

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1 Cor. 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

From us . . . to you in Corinth, you who are called saints . . . and to all who call upon the name of the Lord, both us here, and you there.

Not different Classes of Christians. Christians in different places.

Not divided Christianity. United Christianity, even though not all are in Corinth.

We should keep it simple.

Much love!
 

marks

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Paul did not travel alone. So he, his companion and the Saints at Corinth is theirs and ours.

Gnosticism is getting in your way of understanding.

Just saw your post . . . not trying to duplicate . . .
 

marks

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Col 1:2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Kai, translated as both "and" and "even". And so this is not separating two classes of Christians, Saints and Faithful Brothers (who would not be saints? They are faithful - even this reasoning doesn't really work) Saint, even faithful brothers = saints who are faithful brothers.

This is the correct understanding. Not Elitism.

Much love!
 

marks

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It's just that some brothers have entered into Christ

You are not a Christian unless you are in Christ.

It's how you become a new creation. Baptized into Christ. Buried with Him in baptism. Raised with Him to walk a new life. Being IN Christ, we are to live a new life.

Not . . . Christian, become "in Christ" so you can live a new life.

Much love!
Mark
 

marks

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Christ makes you holy. You do not make you holy.

And what you've received, do you act as though you did not receive it? As if it sets you above the others, who you perceive, even declare, unholy?

You call those whom God has redeemed by the incorruptible blood of His Son . . . these whom God has justified, whom God has glorified, you call these unholy?

I think we know the answer.
 

Episkopos

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"The word we use for “saint” is the Greek word for “holy” – agios. In a real sense, we are celebrating the presence of holiness in the world, incarnate in actual flesh and blood human beings. The descent of the Holy Spirit makes it possible for human beings to become and remain holy. Without the Holy Spirit, human beings can be nice, pleasant and even good – but not holy. And it is the holiness of the saints that is their one common characteristic, expressed in an endless diversity of vocations."
 
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Episkopos

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Saints do not walk as mere humans....

1 Cor. 3:3 You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere humans?

or else as they who walk in the power of the flesh...

2 Cor. 10:2 But I beseech you, that I may not be bold when I am present with that confidence, wherewith I think to be bold against some, which think of us as if we walked according to the flesh.


Saints walk in miraculous power...in the light as He is in the light. :) They who abide in Christ walk in the same way and power as He did on earth. As He IS so are we in this world.
 
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CoreIssue

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"The word we use for “saint” is the Greek word for “holy” – agios. In a real sense, we are celebrating the presence of holiness in the world, incarnate in actual flesh and blood human beings. The descent of the Holy Spirit makes it possible for human beings to become and remain holy. Without the Holy Spirit, human beings can be nice, pleasant and even good – but not holy. And it is the holiness of the saints that is their one common characteristic, expressed in an endless diversity of vocations."
The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon
Strong's Number:
40 Browse Lexicon
Original Word
Word Origin
a&gioß from hagos (an awful thing) [cf (53), (2282)]
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Hagios 1:88,14
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
hag'-ee-os Adjective
Definition
  1. most holy thing, a saint
We become saints and holy = born-again. Again, it means set apart for God, not the Gnostic spin you are trying to put on it.
 

friend of

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Is it any wonder then that so few saints are being molded in our time?

While I agree with the gist of your OP, I find this particular sentiment rather unwise to peddle. We do not see the arm of God working in its fullness in our sight. We do not know nor can we conceive of the mysteries of God's works. His works and his plans are beyond searching out. I believe He is still raising up saints today just as He always has.

Romans 11:3-4
 

Enoch111

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Christ makes you holy. You do not make you holy.
What this OP reveals is that people today wish to manufacture their own Gospel and their own theology. And Episkopos cares nothing for what is actually stated in Scripture.
 

Episkopos

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While I agree with the gist of your OP, I find this particular sentiment rather unwise to peddle. We do not see the arm of God working in its fullness in our sight. We do not know nor can we conceive of the mysteries of God's works. His works and his plans are beyond searching out. I believe He is still raising up saints today just as He always has.

Romans 11:3-4

I also believe so...hence the purpose of this thread. It is the reaction against this subject that would suggest that the time of saints is past.
 
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APAK

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There is a big difference between the popularly obsessive theme of salvation ...and of sanctification. This thread is about sanctification in both purity (as a gift) and maturity...apprehending that for which we have been apprehended.

Salvation is to remain faithful till the end. So nobody is finally saved until the finish line. That is the essence of what a race is. We now have a living HOPE (so often confused with faith) ....for a good end to our race of faith..which is moment by moment, hour by hour, day by day.

During the time we are here, however, we can either advance in the Lord or waste our time. The servant who buried his talent is obviously of the latter sort. Those who advance do so by grace through faith...working out their salvation with fear and trembling...knowing the terror of facing the Lord in judgment.

I believe I do understand your spiritual view much better now, since I have read more of your posts. I tend to agree with its core. There are still a few wrinkles or maybe not, I need to review more. I show some wrinkles to you, I expect. It is just a matter of patience, more learning, more time of each other, under the tent of the Spirit.

Now I do agree that the initial time and the initial event of salvation through the grace of God is the beginning of the journey and a new life style in sanctification. The new man and spirit of Christ are both willing to work together to the will of God until the end of the race, of our lives. It is the maintenance of salvation till we die that counts for everything. Christ helps us stay focused and stay on track as we form a habit of yielding our will more and more to the Father by Christ’s involvement and as comforter. The walk usually starts off slow and them picks up as it becomes a permanent habit of humility and giving our all. So when the switch backs occur, and the hills face us, we can more easily handle them. The home stretch then becomes a breeze.


There is one area I still need to clarify a bit….words are only so precise…

Now the acronym of OSAS as I understand it, is not a carnal ‘unsaved’ view or a Calvin view, or a religious view. It means that God chose me as he already saw it before I was born, that I grew, stayed on the track and moved forward with Christ. That to me means OSAS. God does not revoke my new spirit, or just yank it out of me if I have engaged it (spirit of Christ) and incorporated it into my life. Now the if is because the initial faith given to me as a gift from God endured in my heart. The seed was planted in cultivated soil of my heart - it took to root. This faith that caused me to repent, changed my will and thus my mind, was not from a hardened or partially cultivated heart. My heart was uncompromising, and fully open to the seed of life.

OSAS just gets a bad name because most think immediately it is a Calvinist, Lutheran or Augustinian view only. Well I believe I do not follow them even though some finer points have a common basis such as being chosen etc..

Now those that initially receive the free gift of salvation and become spiritually dormant and neutral as if they just need to say ‘I have accepted the grace and I still believe’ every Saturday or Sunday, do not maintain their salvation in holiness and therefore were never saved to eternal life and God never chose them in the first place. They dropped off the spiritual radar screen, they got off the track altogether, as they contemplated carry their own cross. Or they just dropped off, may be a few times and took short cuts and wandered back on it each time, as if no one was looking and is disqualified or rejected in the next ‘life.’


Saints are chosen of God and never chosen of themselves. It is really intended to be a deeper thought…not a surface catch expression.


Epi, if you are a saint and what I read over these months, it indicates to me that it is the case, and you choose and chose to do the work and will of God. Then believe me God knew this already, because you have a heart that is willing to use his spirit he gave you, to truly change your life into the image of Christ. He knew your heart and that its will would choose Christ every time over any human spirit, pleasure, false comfort or security or enticing worldly vise. You walk you cross alone (cannot do it any other way) in faith and hope, to the end.


Bless you brother,


APAK
 
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