Only the Apostles were Predestined

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Truly

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Paul was the 12th apostle, replacing Judas. As usual for Peter, he jumped the gun and didn't wait for the Holy Spirit, but used a gambling technique to fill the place of Judas with one of the 70.

1stCenturyLady, when you speak of the casting of lots in Acts 1 and Matthias being chosen in the place of Judas there by a gambling technique (I'll just post it below)

Acts.1

[13] And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James.
[14] These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.
[15] And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)
[16] Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.
[17] For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.
[18] Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
[19] And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.
[20] For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.
[21] Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
[22] Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
[23] And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
[24] And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
[25] That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
[26] And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

The casting of lots is what they did as far back as Moses as is shown back further and going forward (after Moses died) as shown us in Joshua in respects to their inheritance

The LORD having commanded lots

Josh 14:2 By lot was their inheritance, as the LORD commanded by the hand of Moses, for the nine tribes, and for the half tribe.

And so similarly under Peter's oversight it says

Acts 1
[26] And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

Would you think it at all possible that it could have been after the death of James by Herod (In Acts 12:2) rather than Judas death by his own hand that Paul's apostleship moves into place?

Because here it shows us

Acts 12
[1] Now about that time Herod the king stretched forth his hands to vex certain of the church.
[2]And he killed James the brother of John with the sword.

And the very next chapter is where the Holy Ghost is now setting apart Saul/Paul and Barnabas for the work he called them to here

Acts.13
[1] Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.
[2] As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
[3] And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away.
[4] So they, being sent forth by the Holy Ghost, departed unto Seleucia; and from thence they sailed to Cyprus.

And the next chapter (at Lystra) is where we find Paul and Barnabas referred to as apostles for the first time in Acts.

Acts.14
[14] Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out....

See what I mean?
 
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1stCenturyLady

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1stCenturyLady, when you speak of the casting of lots in Acts 1 and Matthias being chosen in the place of Judas there by a gambling technique (I'll just post it below)

Acts.1

[13] And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James.
[14] These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.
[15] And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)
[16] Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.
[17] For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.
[18] Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
[19] And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.
[20] For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.
[21] Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
[22] Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
[23] And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
[24] And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
[25] That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
[26] And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

The casting of lots is what they did as far back as Moses as is shown back further and going forward (after Moses died) as shown us in Joshua in respects to their inheritance

The LORD having commanded lots

Josh 14:2 By lot was their inheritance, as the LORD commanded by the hand of Moses, for the nine tribes, and for the half tribe.

And so similarly under Peter's oversight it says

Acts 1
[26] And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

Would you think it at all possible that it could have been after the death of James by Herod (In Acts 12:2) rather than Judas death by his own hand that Paul's apostleship moves into place?

Because here it shows us

Acts 12
[1] Now about that time Herod the king stretched forth his hands to vex certain of the church.
[2]And he killed James the brother of John with the sword.

And the very next chapter is where the Holy Ghost is now setting apart Saul/Paul and Barnabas for the work he called them to here

Acts.13
[1] Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.
[2] As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
[3] And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away.
[4] So they, being sent forth by the Holy Ghost, departed unto Seleucia; and from thence they sailed to Cyprus.

And the next chapter (at Lystra) is where we find Paul and Barnabas referred to as apostles for the first time in Acts.

Acts.14
[14] Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out....

See what I mean?
Why do you think there are not 14 layers of foundation in the New Jerusalem with the names of Mathias and Barnabas as well as the 12?
 

Big Boy Johnson

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Why should I claim anything of myself? I will not. But others have and it is written, of which you simply are not aware. So, answer for yourself: If I am sent--which I am--what am I?

The word Apostle means one sent of God.
All Christians are sent of God to be witnesses to try and win the lost.

However, this does not mean everyone sits in the office of Apostle.

There's only 12 Apostles that Jesus has assigned to sit in the office of Apostle, the rest of us are "apostles" in the sense that we have been sent to the world around us to be witnesses for the Lord.




But others have and it is written

Who are these people that claim you are an Apostle and where can we read documentation that says you are an Apostle?
 

Truly

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Why do you think there are not 14 layers of foundation in the New Jerusalem with the names of Mathias and Barnabas as well as the 12?

It doesn't say specific names, the wall of the city itself has twelve foundations and "in these" are the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb

Rev 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and (( in them )) the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

Rev 21:19 And the foundations (plural) of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones.

The first foundation of the wall of the city is what you call a layer correct?

Rev 21:19 ...The first foundation was jasper

Would you consider this foundation to be Jesus Christ there as well since Paul said,

1Cr 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.(Heb 3:1)

Because here is a singular foundation of apostles (plural) and prophets, and Jesus being the chief cornerstone

Ephes 2:20-21 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord

It says here also

Rev 21:18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper

And of the same stone is shown of him that sat

Rev 4:3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper (( and )) a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.

And another stone also

Jesus was to look upon like a Jasper stone (Rev 21:19) and also a sardine stone

  1. a sardius, a precious stone of which there are two types, the former is called a carnelian (because flesh coloured) and the latter a sard

How would anyone tell any of the names, Peter said,

Acts 10:41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.

Which might make a little more sense here

Acts 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

Acts 1:21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,

Acts 1:22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

And they cast lots

If the LORD had commanded lots be cast by Moses formerly, and Peter is considered to be playing a gambling game in doing so then so was Moses by the LORD's own commandment.
 

1stCenturyLady

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Why should I claim anything of myself? I will not. But others have and it is written, of which you simply are not aware. So, answer for yourself: If I am sent--which I am--what am I?
God would have told you. I am not an apostle. But I've been sent. I am a Teacher. Anyone who teaches doctrines of man have not been sent by God. Very few agree with me because I only teach what God has taught me, that most has been lost to first the RCC, then Protestants.
 

1stCenturyLady

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It doesn't say specific names, the wall of the city itself has twelve foundations and "in these" are the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb

Rev 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and (( in them )) the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Right. Just because Mathias and Barnabas were sent by the other Apostles, doesn't mean they are of the ones written on the 12 layers of the foundation.

Today, we call them missionaries. They are apostles, but do not speak new doctrines God has taught them, like Paul was.
 

ScottA

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The word Apostle means one sent of God.
All Christians are sent of God to be witnesses to try and win the lost.

However, this does not mean everyone sits in the office of Apostle.

There's only 12 Apostles that Jesus has assigned to sit in the office of Apostle, the rest of us are "apostles" in the sense that we have been sent to the world around us to be witnesses for the Lord.
That is a good explanation, except that the 12 were just the beginning, sent only to (and representing) the 12 tribes of the house of Israel. But then also to the ends of the earth Jesus added the seventy, telling them to pray that even more be added (Luke 9-10).

Who are these people that claim you are an Apostle and where can we read documentation that says you are an Apostle?
It is as I have already said: It is written. But "Apostle" is just what is now being discussed which many would like to put limits on. With regards to me, what I said, is I am "one sent"--which I have only done to express the fact that I am not debating, nor simply giving my opinion, but speaking rather what is given to me under authority of God. As for a title or office, I do not refer to myself as having a title or office. But that is just me speaking of myself.
 

Truly

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Right. Just because Mathias and Barnabas were sent by the other Apostles, doesn't mean they are of the ones written on the 12 layers of the foundation.

Today, we call them missionaries. They are apostles, but do not speak new doctrines God has taught them, like Paul was.

It doesn't specifically give the names

But it does say that it was the Holy Ghost called for them and sent forth Barnabas as well as Saul

Acts 13:2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.


Acts 13:4 So they, being sent forth by the Holy Ghost, departed unto Seleucia; and from thence they sailed to Cyprus.
 

1stCenturyLady

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It doesn't specifically give the names

But it does say that it was the Holy Ghost called for them and sent forth Barnabas as well as Saul

Acts 13:2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.


Acts 13:4 So they, being sent forth by the Holy Ghost, departed unto Seleucia; and from thence they sailed to Cyprus.
God knows.
 

Big Boy Johnson

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That is a good explanation, except that the 12 were just the beginning, sent only to (and representing) the 12 tribes of the house of Israel. But then also to the ends of the earth Jesus added the seventy, telling them to pray that even more be added (Luke 9-10).

Yes and as the Body of Christ grew and continues to grow the number grows exponentially




It is as I have already said: It is written. But "Apostle" is just what is now being discussed which many would like to put limits on. With regards to me, what I said, is I am "one sent"--which I have only done to express the fact that I am not debating, nor simply giving my opinion, but speaking rather what is given to me under authority of God. As for a title or office, I do not refer to myself as having a title or office. But that is just me speaking of myself.

Well congrats on learning as a Christian you have been sent to do ministry stuff as the Lord leads.
All Christians are called to do this as well.

Most think this sort of thing is only for full time ministers and not for them.