Only the Apostles were Predestined

[1stCenturyLady]

You dont make sense, for Christians aren't born Christians, they are born ungodly depraved sinners.

Yes, but don't you also believe that even AFTER being born again of the Spirit we REMAIN totally depraved? I would love it if I am wrong about you, but those in Calvary Chapel churches believe that we still have a sin nature and are totally depraved after Jesus takes away ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS. They say that is what Chuck Smith taught them at the beginning. I don't believe that. When Jesus makes us clean, He is making our nature clean.

 

[brightfame52]

Yes, but don't you also believe that even AFTER being born again of the Spirit we REMAIN totally depraved? I would love it if I am wrong about you, but those in Calvary Chapel churches believe that we still have a sin nature and are totally depraved after Jesus takes away ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS. They say that is what Chuck Smith taught them at the beginning. I don't believe that. When Jesus makes us clean, He is making our nature clean.

I believe total depravity pertains to men by nature, as we are born from our mothers womb. Thats why a person must be born again first and foremost. I dont think you even understand Total depravity. So you have been misrepresenting total depravity, I suggest you study tulip and get a better understanding of what you are opposing.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I believe total depravity pertains to men by nature, as we are born from our mothers womb. Thats why a person must be born again first and foremost. I dont think you even understand Total depravity. So you have been misrepresenting total depravity, I suggest you study tulip and get a better understanding of what you are opposing.

I only care about the "T". Once born again of the Spirit, does the T still apply to you, or does being born again erase the T from your life?

 

[brightfame52]

I only care about the "T". Once born again of the Spirit, does the T still apply to you, or does being born again erase the T from your life?

This thread isnt about me, your best bet is to worry about yourself. Total depravity applies to the unregenerate, the natural man.

 

[marks]

Yes, but don't you also believe that even AFTER being born again of the Spirit we REMAIN totally depraved? I would love it if I am wrong about you, but those in Calvary Chapel churches believe that we still have a sin nature and are totally depraved after Jesus takes away ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS. They say that is what Chuck Smith taught them at the beginning. I don't believe that. When Jesus makes us clean, He is making our nature clean.

Forget about Pastor Chuck. He didn't teach that we remain totally depraved after we are reborn. He taught that we are changed, with a new spirit.

But he didn't neglect the rest of the Bible either, such as,

Philippians 3:20-21 LITV
20) For our citizenship is in Heaven, from where we also wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
21) who will transform our body of humiliation, for it to be conformed to His body of glory, according to the working of Him to be able even to subject all things under Himself.

Romans 8:22-24 LITV
22) For we know that all the creation groans together and travails together until now.
23) And not only so, but also we ourselves having the firstfruit of the Spirit, also we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly expecting adoption, the redemption of our body;
24) for we were saved by hope, but hope being seen is not hope; for what anyone sees, why does he also hope?

No, the corrupted flesh remains with us until our resurrection.

Much love!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

1. I have no private interpretations. What I speak of is always backed up by the KJV and the TR Greek text, literally and/or figuratively, as the Greek allows for it.
2. See my answer #1.
3. I present the understanding given to me, whereby people can make their own decision to agree or disagree.
4. What is a parable, or anything that can be understood figuratively?
5. 1 Cor. 2[15] But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

Having the mind of Christ, I can only agree with what the Holy Spirit teaches. Therefore judgment falls not on me, but rather on those who choose to ignore it.

I contend with no one but those who are taught doctrines fabricated by "the wisdom of men".

Well God is not a sloppy writer nor writes most of Scriptures in parables. And it is plain to anyone with even a first grade education that it id believers who are predestined to become part of the plan, not the plan.

I askk, where do you fellowship and do you sit under a apstor/teacher?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

This thread isnt about me, your best bet is to worry about yourself. Total depravity applies to the unregenerate, the natural man.

I wish everyone believed that about the T in Tulip. I've heard others that believe in just the T in Tulip, that the T is our sin nature that we still have after being born again. They believe we also have a new nature that fights against the sin nature.

 

[soberxp]

Natural of God selection, survival of the fittest.
Sounds like this one.

 

[David in NJ]

I wish everyone believed that about the T in Tulip. I've heard others that believe in just the T in Tulip, that the T is our sin nature that we still have after being born again. They believe we also have a new nature that fights against the sin nature.

We are given a New nature in Christ when we are Born-Again

However the old nature = the old man still remains
This results in a struggle between flesh and spirit = no one is immune
Thus why the Apostle Paul wrote Romans to explain this interaction and even how the law adds to the struggle by magnifying sin.

GRACE and a SINLESS SAVIOR who Mediates between God and man is the Only Solution/Power/Protection/Mercy

 

[1stCenturyLady]

We are given a New nature in Christ when we are Born-Again

However the old nature = the old man still remains
This results in a struggle between flesh and spirit = no one is immune
Thus why the Apostle Paul wrote Romans to explain this interaction and even how the law adds to the struggle by magnifying sin.

GRACE and a SINLESS SAVIOR who Mediates between God and man is the Only Solution/Power/Protection/Mercy

cc: @brightfame52

BF52: See what I mean? DNJ: You've been taught to completely misinterpret Paul's message in Romans 7. Verses 14-25 is all about those who still sin and therefore are UNDER the Old Covenant law, like practicing Jews. They are NOT born again, so need the law to show them their sin. Paul is merely showing it is not the law's fault, it is holy.

Read verses 5-6 about we who have been born again of the Spirit. These are BEFORE verses 14-25 so you have no excuse for your ignorance.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

And the next chapter follows up the context of who is born again. The Spirit in us gives us power to not sin, besides the fact that Jesus cleansed our sin nature, the old flesh called the old man in chapter 6, FREEING US FROM SIN, thus no need for the law. We are not slaves to either! Romans 8:2 "2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. "

The sin nature was "the (carnal) flesh. Romans 8:8-9. 8 is your belief. 9 is mine.

8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. (They need the law)
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Romans 6:5-7
5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

GRACE and a SINLESS SAVIOR who Mediates between God and man is the Only Solution/Power/Protection/Mercy

Again, you've been taught that grace is unmerited favor. WRONG. It is the power of God given to us through the Spirit to those who belong to Christ, Romans 8:9.

Grace is our gospel. Romans 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”

Read Romans 8:29 if you believe Jesus is the only person who can be sinless.

29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

That is what being born again is all about, 1 John 3:9 "9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."

By the way, the word "practices" is only found in the corrupted Alexandrian codex that two spiritualists translated, Westcott and Hort. They believed in evolution as they were great friends of Darwin.

David, get out of that man-made denomination and focus ONLY on the Bible.

 

[soberxp]

9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

 

[soberxp]

9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

9:29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.

 

[brightfame52]

I wish everyone believed that about the T in Tulip. I've heard others that believe in just the T in Tulip, that the T is our sin nature that we still have after being born again. They believe we also have a new nature that fights against the sin nature.

So now you know what I mean about the T in Tulip and to be honest mostly everyone I have read believe in T in tulip the same way I do

 

[soberxp]

So now you know what I mean about the T in Tulip and to be honest mostly everyone I have read believe in T in tulip the same way I do

I wish everyone believed that about the T in Tulip. I've heard others that believe in just the T in Tulip, that the T is our sin nature that we still have after being born again. They believe we also have a new nature that fights against the sin nature.

Children generally listen to their parents, is a submissive character, this character is not the sin nature.

14:15
The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Children generally listen to their parents, is a submissive character, this character is not the sin nature.

14:15
The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.

I have no children, but from what I have seen, children love their parents if they are normal and not bullies who abuse, but even with normal parents the teenage years can seem like night and day from when they were children.

 

[soberxp]

I have no children, but from what I have seen, children love their parents if they are normal and not bullies who abuse, but even with normal parents the teenage years can seem like night and day from when they were children.

If Children is obedient to the word of God,so be it.
What if children is obedient to every word, That's the terrible result.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

So now you know what I mean about the T in Tulip and to be honest mostly everyone I have read believe in T in tulip the same way I do

I have listened to a radio show for well over 30 years called "To Every Man An Answer" founded by those in Calvary Chapel. The recent movie, Jesus Revolution, is about how they started by Chuck Smith. They are against Calvinism, except for the T in Tulip. They are basically who I am going by who believe in the T for even born again Christians. But there was an AOG pastor that I was shocked to notice also believe that 1 John 1:8 are born again Christians! Even though the next verse is how to become a born again Christian. Verses 5-10 show the contrast between light vs. darkness in every other verse. 1 John 2:4 shows the real interpretation of 1 John 1:8.

I would like to know how you interpret 1 John 1:8 and what denomination, if any, you belong to. I take it that they are Calvinists seeing as you want me to study TULIP. I am very glad to know that there is at least one, if not more, Calvinist denomination who believes the T is only the unregenerate.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

If Children obedience to the word of God,so be it.
What if children obedience to every word, That's the terrible result.

"Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it." Proverbs 22:6

 

[David in NJ]

Again, you've been taught that grace is unmerited favor. WRONG. It is the power of God given to us through the Spirit to those who belong to Christ, Romans 8:9.

Grace is our gospel. Romans 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”

Read Romans 8:29 if you believe Jesus is the only person who can be sinless.

29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

That is what being born again is all about, 1 John 3:9 "9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."

By the way, the word "practices" is only found in the corrupted Alexandrian codex that two spiritualists translated, Westcott and Hort. They believed in evolution as they were great friends of Darwin.

David, get out of that man-made denomination and focus ONLY on the Bible.

We are taught from Truth = Thy word is Truth

@1stCenturyLady, RETURN to the TRUTH

The sin nature of our flesh remains until the Day of FULL Redemption = Crystal CLEAR from the words of Christ and the Apostles.

1 John 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous

Eph 4;25 Therefore, putting away lying, “ Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor,” for we are members of one another.

1 Peter 2:1 Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander,

1 Cor 13:2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have absolute faith so as to move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

Hebrews 12:1 Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.