Only Those Who Do the Will of God Will Enter the Kingdom

[FaithWillDo]

Many call Jesus “Lord,” yet few understand what it truly means to do the Father’s will.

Dear LoveYeshua,
Here is a scripture that applies to those who will enter the Kingdom of Heaven:

Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

When Christ comes to an unbeliever and freely gives them a small measure of the Holy Spirit (Early Rain), they will become a believer after they are presented the Gospel. This is the only way that an unbeliever becomes a believer. It is not by their own works; it is by the work of Christ that He did within them.

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man (by the Early Rain), and the answer of the tongue (confession of faith), is from the LORD.

Hos 6:3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he (Christ) shall come unto us as the Rain, as the Latter and Early Rain unto the earth.

After a person is given the Early Rain, they will become a babe who still remains spiritually blind, carnally minded and unconverted.

For the babes who are also elect, Christ will come to them a second time and baptize them with His Spirit (Latter Rain). This baptism will be followed by the Day of the Lord (Thousand year Reign) which will remove the "chaff" from within the person.

Luke 3:17 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.

The chaff represents all the spiritual things within the person which has caused them to be carnally minded and sinful; a child of the Devil. After the chaff is removed, the wheat (child of God) will be gathered into the barn (Kingdom of Heaven).

The spiritual process that I explained above is called conversion. It will change a babe who remains a child of the Devil into a little child who is in the Kingdom of Heaven.

Consider what Paul says below:

Gal 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. 24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. 25 For this Agar in Mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. 28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. 29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. 30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

Babes are the children of the bondwoman who remain captive to sin. They walk by their own works. They are under the Law (Mount Sinai) and are born first.

Rom 9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

1Cor 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

The children of promise are the converted Elect who are children of the freewoman. They are not under the Law and are born second.

After an Elect babe has been converted, they will be spiritually changed. In this new spiritual condition, they will begin walking by faith as Christ matures them into a man of full age. After they have fully matured, the person will only walk by the Spirit and will be like Christ. It is only then that the person will do the perfect will of the Father because Christ does it for them from within.

Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Conversion (Early Rain/Latter Rain/Judgment) happens by the spiritual work of Christ. The person contributes nothing to the process because they have nothing that they can contribute. Christ is the Savior and He alone does all the work of a person's salvation - and He decides when He will do this work. We are all at the mercy of Christ to save us.

Joe

 

[LoveYeshua]

Dear LoveYeshua,
Here is a scripture that applies to those who will enter the Kingdom of Heaven:

Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

When Christ comes to an unbeliever and freely gives them a small measure of the Holy Spirit (Early Rain), they will become a believer after they are presented the Gospel. This is the only way that an unbeliever becomes a believer. It is not by their own works; it is by the work of Christ that He did within them.

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man (by the Early Rain), and the answer of the tongue (confession of faith), is from the LORD.

Hos 6:3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he (Christ) shall come unto us as the Rain, as the Latter and Early Rain unto the earth.

After a person is given the Early Rain, they will become a babe who still remains spiritually blind, carnally minded and unconverted.

For the babes who are also elect, Christ will come to them a second time and baptize them with His Spirit (Latter Rain). This baptism will be followed by the Day of the Lord (Thousand year Reign) which will remove the "chaff" from within the person.

Luke 3:17 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.

The chaff represents all the spiritual things within the person which has caused them to be carnally minded and sinful; a child of the Devil. After the chaff is removed, the wheat (child of God) will be gathered into the barn (Kingdom of Heaven).

The spiritual process that I explained above is called conversion. It will change a babe who remains a child of the Devil into a little child who is in the Kingdom of Heaven.

Consider what Paul says below:

Gal 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. 24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. 25 For this Agar in Mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. 28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. 29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. 30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

Babes are the children of the bondwoman who remain captive to sin. They walk by their own works. They are under the Law (Mount Sinai) and are born first.

Rom 9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

1Cor 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

The children of promise are the converted Elect who are children of the freewoman. They are not under the Law and are born second.

After an Elect babe has been converted, they will be spiritually changed. In this new spiritual condition, they will begin walking by faith as Christ matures them into a man of full age. After they have fully matured, the person will only walk by the Spirit and will be like Christ. It is only then that the person will do the perfect will of the Father because Christ does it for them from within.

Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Conversion (Early Rain/Latter Rain/Judgment) happens by the spiritual work of Christ. The person contributes nothing to the process because they have nothing that they can contribute. Christ is the Savior and He alone does all the work of a person's salvation - and He decides when He will do this work. We are all at the mercy of Christ to save us.

Joe

Dear Joe, thank you for your reply. Jesus is clear that unless we become as little children we will not enter the kingdom (Matthew 18:3). But He also said, “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father” (Matthew 7:21). Becoming as a child means humbling ourselves and obeying Him, not remaining blind or carnal.

The Lord taught that we must repent and believe (Mark 1:15), keep His commandments if we want life (Matthew 19:17), hear His word and keep it (Luke 11:28), and build on the Rock by doing what He says (Matthew 7:24–27). He asked plainly, “Why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?” (Luke 6:46). These words show that we are not passive in salvation, and it is not true that “we contribute nothing.” God gives us His Spirit and strength, but we must still repent, obey, and walk in His way. This is why Jesus told us to strive to enter the narrow gate (Luke 13:24).

Salvation is God’s gift, but entering the kingdom requires our response, for “faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead” (James 2:17). In the end, Jesus summed it up in the simplest way: “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15).

 

[GodsGrace]

Dear Joe, thank you for your reply. Jesus is clear that unless we become as little children we will not enter the kingdom (Matthew 18:3). But He also said, “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father” (Matthew 7:21). Becoming as a child means humbling ourselves and obeying Him, not remaining blind or carnal.

The Lord taught that we must repent and believe (Mark 1:15), keep His commandments if we want life (Matthew 19:17), hear His word and keep it (Luke 11:28), and build on the Rock by doing what He says (Matthew 7:24–27). He asked plainly, “Why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?” (Luke 6:46). These words show that we are not passive in salvation, and it is not true that “we contribute nothing.” God gives us His Spirit and strength, but we must still repent, obey, and walk in His way. This is why Jesus told us to strive to enter the narrow gate (Luke 13:24).

Salvation is God’s gift, but entering the kingdom requires our response, for “faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead” (James 2:17). In the end, Jesus summed it up in the simplest way: “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15).

Good reply.
The other poster made statements that would require a very long reply...
so much there.

He said we contribute nothing to our salvation.
I hope @soberxp reads his post no. 241.
I've tried to explain to soberxp what some mean by the expression FAITH ALONE.

They mean what the other member stated: That we are saved by faith alone and that we can contribute NOTHING to our salvation.
This is taught NOWHERE in the NT.

Faith Alone is an expression that is never used in the New Testament except for one time and it's used in the negative !

James 2:24
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

A man is NOT saved by faith alone.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Dear Joe, thank you for your reply. Jesus is clear that unless we become as little children we will not enter the kingdom (Matthew 18:3). But He also said, “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father” (Matthew 7:21). Becoming as a child means humbling ourselves and obeying Him, not remaining blind or carnal.

The Lord taught that we must repent and believe (Mark 1:15), keep His commandments if we want life (Matthew 19:17), hear His word and keep it (Luke 11:28), and build on the Rock by doing what He says (Matthew 7:24–27). He asked plainly, “Why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?” (Luke 6:46). These words show that we are not passive in salvation, and it is not true that “we contribute nothing.” God gives us His Spirit and strength, but we must still repent, obey, and walk in His way. This is why Jesus told us to strive to enter the narrow gate (Luke 13:24).

Salvation is God’s gift, but entering the kingdom requires our response, for “faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead” (James 2:17). In the end, Jesus summed it up in the simplest way: “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15).

Dear LoveYeshua,
You said:
But He also said, “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father” (Matthew 7:21). Becoming as a child means humbling ourselves and obeying Him, not remaining blind or carnal.

Jesus is the only one who can heal the blind and give a person the "mind of Christ" (a non-carnal mind) so that they can understand His truth and obey His laws. Mankind, in their created state, is spiritually marred and subject to vanity. In this condition, no one has the ability to obey Christ or to even understand Him. If anyone could, the Old Covenant of Law would have saved people. But because it couldn't save anyone, Christ gave us a New Covenant where He would do all the work of saving us. To save us, Christ will change us spiritually to be like Him. This process is called conversion. If Christ does not convert a person, they will never be obedient to God's laws.

The rejected believers who are mentioned in Mat 7:21 are babes who Christ did not convert. Their rejection is from no fault of their own.
They represent the "many" who were called to be saints (Early Rain only) but who were not chosen to actually become saints (converted). They simply were not blessed by God.

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

So why does Christ reject these believers? He does so because they are unfaithful and still prefer the Old Wine:

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

Because unconverted babes prefer the Old Wine, they will mix it with the New Wine. This mixing of the Old and New Covenants causes them to be unfaithful and to remain under the Law. In other words, they are trying to serve two masters (Satan and Christ).

When a babe mixes the two wines, they have been bitten by Satan and have become apostate.

Prov 23:26 My son, give me thine heart, and let thine eyes observe my ways. 27 For a whore is a deep ditch; and a strange woman is a narrow pit. 28 She also lieth in wait as for a prey, and increases the transgressors among men. 29 Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? 30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine (Old Covenant mixed with the New Covenant). 31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red (Old Wine/Old Covenant), when it giveth his color in the cup, when it moves itself (man’s works) aright. 32 At the last it bites like a serpent, and stings like an adder.

You said:
The Lord taught that we must repent and believe (Mark 1:15), keep His commandments if we want life (Matthew 19:17), hear His word and keep it (Luke 11:28), and build on the Rock by doing what He says (Matthew 7:24–27).

Yes, God's Word makes those statements but it also states that the children of the Devil (all mankind) have no ability to do them. Only the children of God have these abilities because they have Christ within them doing these things for them.

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is CHRIST IN YOU, the hope of glory (salvation):

Until a person is converted, they cannot repent, believe, keep His commandments or build on the Rock.

Believing as you do, you are mixing your own works with faith. True faith in Christ is trusting Him to do all that is necessary to save us.

Rom 8:30 Moreover whom HE did predestinate, them HE also called: and whom HE called, them HE also justified: and whom HE justified, them HE also glorified.

There is no "me" or "I" in the verse above. Christ is the one who causes us to repent. Christ is the one who causes us to believe and have faith. Christ is the one who causes us to do good works. Christ is the one who causes us to keep His commandments. Christ is the one causes us to mature into a man of God of full age. Our entire salvation comes solely (100%) from Christ and the work that He does within us - and it was decided before the foundation of the world who He will do this work within. Mankind has no ability to choose Christ. Christ must choose us.

You said:
Salvation is God’s gift, but entering the kingdom requires our response, for “faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead” (James 2:17). In the end, Jesus summed it up in the simplest way: “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15).

You are assuming that a person has the ability to have faith, to do good works and to keep His commandments before they are converted. Scripture says that the natural man does NOT have these abilities.

Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity (hatred) against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The Old Covenant was given to be our schoolmaster to teach us the truths that are taught in the verses above. After Christ has taught us these truths, He will cause us to turn to Him and repent of our belief in our own works. This is true repentance and it comes from God.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that (our faith) not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

2Tim 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; IF GOD PERADVENTURE WILL GIVE THEM repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

Joe

 

[GracePeace]

Good reply.
The other poster made statements that would require a very long reply...
so much there.

He said we contribute nothing to our salvation.
I hope @soberxp reads his post no. 241.
I've tried to explain to soberxp what some mean by the expression FAITH ALONE.

They mean what the other member stated: That we are saved by faith alone and that we can contribute NOTHING to our salvation.
This is taught NOWHERE in the NT.

Faith Alone is an expression that is never used in the New Testament except for one time and it's used in the negative !

James 2:24
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

A man is NOT saved by faith alone.

Soberxp
speaks Chinese as their native language, so there's a language barrier.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Good reply.
The other poster made statements that would require a very long reply...
so much there.

He said we contribute nothing to our salvation.
I hope @soberxp reads his post no. 241.
I've tried to explain to soberxp what some mean by the expression FAITH ALONE.

They mean what the other member stated: That we are saved by faith alone and that we can contribute NOTHING to our salvation.
This is taught NOWHERE in the NT.

Faith Alone is an expression that is never used in the New Testament except for one time and it's used in the negative !

James 2:24
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

A man is NOT saved by faith alone.

Dear GodsGrace,
I just want to make two points a little clearer from my previous posts:

1). When I say "faith alone", I mean that a person contributes nothing toward their salvation and that especially includes their faith in Christ.

A person's faith in Christ is a gift from God that comes to them only after Christ places the Holy Spirit within them. The Spirit is given FIRST, then faith in Christ is produced when they hear the Word. No other result will happen.

Below is what Paul said to the babes (those called to be saints) in the Roman church. After Christ gave them the Early Rain, the small measure of the Holy Spirit gave each of them a "measure of faith".

Rom 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you (babes in the church), not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

After the Romans received their faith by hearing the Word, they made a confession of faith and submitted to Christ's authority. No other result was possible (they could no longer call Jesus accursed).

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

2). After a person has faith, they will outwardly show it by the good works that they perform. However, those good works are not works that they can claim as their own. Those works are the works of Christ that He does through them. Christ is the one who causes them to "will and to do".

Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

When James said that a person will show their faith by their good works, he was saying that their good works are the outward evidence of their faith. If a believer doesn't have any good works, then their faith is dead (they have become unfaithful). With a dead faith, Christ is not producing good works through them.

So how does a babe have dead faith?

After Paul's death, the spirit of anti-Christ came into the babes in the church. Since all babes only have a measure of faith and because they remain spiritually blind & carnally minded, they are easy prey for Satan's deceptions. Satan's deceives them by masquerading as Christ and by teaching them his "another gospel" which mixes works with faith.

2Cor 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus (Satan), whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit (spirit of anti-Christ), which ye have not received, or another gospel (mixes works with faith), which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

After a babe becomes apostate, they will no longer walk by faith or have works of faith. They have fallen from grace and their faith is dead.

However, after a babe is converted, they will no longer be unfaithful. As a result, they will 100% of the time produce good works. They can do nothing else since Christ is causing them to "will and to do". They are now saved.

Joe

 

[ProDeo]

Dear GodsGrace,
I just want to make two points a little clearer from my previous posts:

1). When I say "faith alone", I mean that a person contributes nothing toward their salvation and that especially includes their faith in Christ.

A person's faith in Christ is a gift from God that comes to them only after Christ places the Holy Spirit within them. The Spirit is given FIRST, then faith in Christ is produced when they hear the Word. No other result will happen.

Below is what Paul said to the babes (those called to be saints) in the Roman church. After Christ gave them the Early Rain, the small measure of the Holy Spirit gave each of them a "measure of faith".

Rom 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you (babes in the church), not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

After the Romans received their faith by hearing the Word, they made a confession of faith and submitted to Christ's authority. No other result was possible (they could no longer call Jesus accursed).

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

2). After a person has faith, they will outwardly show it by the good works that they perform. However, those good works are not works that they can claim as their own. Those works are the works of Christ that He does through them. Christ is the one who causes them to "will and to do".

Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

When James said that a person will show their faith by their good works, he was saying that their good works are the outward evidence of their faith. If a believer doesn't have any good works, then their faith is dead (they have become unfaithful). With a dead faith, Christ is not producing good works through them.

So how does a babe have dead faith?

After Paul's death, the spirit of anti-Christ came into the babes in the church. Since all babes only have a measure of faith and because they remain spiritually blind & carnally minded, they are easy prey for Satan's deceptions. Satan's deceives them by masquerading as Christ and by teaching them his "another gospel" which mixes works with faith.

2Cor 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus (Satan), whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit (spirit of anti-Christ), which ye have not received, or another gospel (mixes works with faith), which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

After a babe becomes apostate, they will no longer walk by faith or have works of faith. They have fallen from grace and their faith is dead.

However, after a babe is converted, they will no longer be unfaithful. As a result, they will 100% of the time produce good works. They can do nothing else since Christ is causing them to "will and to do". They are now saved.

Joe

What counts for babes counts for all, there is no difference.

 

[PS95]

Yeah, OCD, PTSD, who knows what else.

I'm thinking this has to do with life experiences. You said before that your step dad was a Muslim terrorist. Was that a way of saying how he was harsh and unloving to you or was he really an actual religious terrorist?
So were you raised as Muslim?

We are saved, just as the Jews were saved, but, as with the Jews after they were saved, our behavior determines our outcome (1 Corinthians 10).

Obedience is what they lacked- I agree. Love obeys.
And for some on this forum- obedience is irrelevant. It is not scriptural. It's a result of cherry picking verses and ignoring the rest. Without obedience there is no salvation. I agree with you. I have no idea what they do with 1 Cor 10 and I don't want to know.- twist it- what else?
Can just obedience save you? Of course not- AND It's impossible to be obedient without first being transformed inwardly by God's love. Why? It is not a list of rules and regulations like the law was. It is only about LOVE. That's key.

The difference between us is how we view this obedience.
You see a threat. I don't. I see Jesus saying- I died for your sins- I showed you what love looks like- how love acts- what love does- do you see it? I didn't have to do it- I loved you, and did it willingly to show you what I want from my people. I want them to LOVE others like I love you.
I will give you my Spirit in you to help you to do this. When you see others look at them the way I looked at you.
You were a despicable selfish sinner who only cared about yourself and what you could accumulate- how you looked- how you could gain physical pleasures- how you could feel superior to others- greedy, selfish, immoral, foul mouthed, lying, uncaring... etc
I came from heaven to save you. You can't save yourself. I gave my life and bled for you so your sins could be washed away. There is no other way for you to be made clean. NO OTHER WAY. I loved you that much. SO now you are made CLEAN by my blood----

Do you see His love yet? The undeserved kindness aka grace? He didn't have to do that. He could have let us live out our lives and die in our sins. He chose to save us instead- and what does He require of us as a result? Here is what you see as the "threat".

Put away your old way of life and all of it's filth. I gave you my Spirit to help you. You are made new so walk in that newness of life.
LOVE others.- God is for us- not against us!
Does love murder? Does love hate others? Does love commit adultery? Does love steal? Lie to others? Jealous of others? Is love Greedy?
does love act arrogant? selfish? rude? etc.....
If we keep our eyes on Jesus ( Hebrews) and walk in the Spirit we are able to put the death the deeds of the flesh. God is working IN US to change us- to help us- to show us. Yes, we participate & cooperate! Are we saving ourselves? No. we can't- What we are doing is becoming more like Christ. It always goes back to LOVE. Every time. There is nothing he asks of us that doesn't involve love.

What it isn't- is do this, 'do that and you will be saved. It is -go and love.
Can you forgive others if you first have not been shown His love of your own forgiveness? You never deserved it. So forgive others!
Do you see someone in need and turn your back? Is that what I did to you? Go and help!
Do you see someone sinning and hate them? Is that what I did to you? Hate the sin but love the sinner!
I challenge you GP- name one act of obedience that isn't about LOVE.

If you feel threatened by torment- you have not been perfected in LOVE.

This God of ours- He showed us what love looks like and all He asks is for us to show love. Love for Him and love for others. He gave us every reason to love Him on the cross. He gave us of His Spirit to aid us. Where is your burden? Where is this threat?

If you don't want to be loving- DON'T- but don't blame God for not holding up His end of the promise. His promise it for all- here is salvation this is the way- walk in it. Walk in love as I have shown you. If you are my child- act like it- I will Help you- give love to others.
That's your threat? He wants you to LOVE?

Can you get it? There are so many people who become "religious"- they are so worried about being "religious" and what they lack is LOVE. You can follow the 10 commandments - or try to- but if you forget LOVE what good is that?
You can pray 5 times a day and not eat bacon and be full of hatred. I grew up with religion- ! It's rubbish!

If LOVE is your guide you wont want to break His commands. And further, you wont hold hate in your heart which is murder. Or lust which is adultery. when you do hate someone- you will be reminded by the Holy Spirit who convicts us of sin- be grateful for the help!
Following the 10 commandments goes nowhere without the inward change- the circumcism of the heart- from stone to flesh- the regeneration- the Spirit of Christ in you. Most avoid murdering another literally- and yet murder by hatred.
God asks us to look upon others and He looked upon us- With compassion and the willingness to help, although we didn't deserve it.
A threat?

Do you have to go to the street corner and preach in order to be saved? No. We are not all teachers- our gifts vary from- those who run the soup kitchens or visit in the hospitals, or orphanages to those who exhort or showing mercy, generosity, helpers, administration, leaders, and so forth.
Did you know that there are those who are won over to Christ without a word but by seeing what you do? Seeing Christ in you? It's true. We can be a seed planter or a waterer and not even know it. Actions can speak louder than words. Talk can be cheap. We are all a part of the body- none of us are the whole- we have a place. The pinky finger may be small but needed, right? Sometimes, it's the lady in the back of the church kitchen with the mop singing joyfully that someone is impressed by. We never know how God will use us at any given time.- We are just available and are eager to do good.

I see no threats. What I see is a willingness to be a member of Christ's body and love others. If we are threatened because Our God asks us to love- then this threat is one I want to embrace.
Your threat of hell-- means what? If it is a threat to you- then that must mean you feel that you can not--
murder, cheat on your wife, rape the child next door, watch porn, sodomize, hate people, steal from them, lie to them, withhold help from those in need, be self centered, etc.. DO YOU WANT TO DO THOSE THINGS? that's what your threat is about. -don't be a hate filled scumbag or you are no part of me. Do you blame Him?
Give love instead..

ALL He asks is that we walk in his love-and he supplies us with His Spirit to help us because he is working within us.--- how threatening.?
You see, it IS all about Love. His love for us should extend from us to others. treat others the way you want to be treated?
How threatening?
How Could we have a better God than this?

 

[GracePeace]

I'm thinking this has to do with life experiences. You said before that your step dad was a Muslim terrorist. Was that a way of saying how he was harsh and unloving to you or was he really an actual religious terrorist?

We lived in Miami, he got his pilot's license at Tamiami airport (same place as Mohammad Atta), and told my Mom they were going to use the air planes as missiles, and we told the FBI circa 1997. He was literally a terrorist. He would berate and beat us for reasons we did not even know, and, on occasion, I remember if I couldn't explain why I was being beaten I would get more of a beating, so I had to come up with a reason why I was being beaten.

So were you raised as Muslim?

For some of the formative years of my life, we were forced into Islam.

Obedience is what they lacked- I agree. Love obeys.
And for some on this forum- obedience is irrelevant. It is not scriptural. It's a result of cherry picking verses and ignoring the rest. Without obedience there is no salvation. I agree with you. I have no idea what they do with 1 Cor 10 and I don't want to know.- twist it- what else?
Can just obedience save you? Of course not- AND It's impossible to be obedient without first being transformed inwardly by God's love. Why? It is not a list of rules and regulations like the law was. It is only about LOVE. That's key.

The difference between us is how we view this obedience.
You see a threat. I don't. I see Jesus saying- I died for your sins- I showed you what love looks like- how love acts- what love does- do you see it? I didn't have to do it- I loved you, and did it willingly to show you what I want from my people. I want them to LOVE others like I love you.
I will give you my Spirit in you to help you to do this. When you see others look at them the way I looked at you.
You were a despicable selfish sinner who only cared about yourself and what you could accumulate- how you looked- how you could gain physical pleasures- how you could feel superior to others- greedy, selfish, immoral, foul mouthed, lying, uncaring... etc
I came from heaven to save you. You can't save yourself. I gave my life and bled for you so your sins could be washed away. There is no other way for you to be made clean. NO OTHER WAY. I loved you that much. SO now you are made CLEAN by my blood----

Do you see His love yet? The undeserved kindness aka grace? He didn't have to do that. He could have let us live out our lives and die in our sins. He chose to save us instead- and what does He require of us as a result? Here is what you see as the "threat".

Put away your old way of life and all of it's filth. I gave you my Spirit to help you. You are made new so walk in that newness of life.
LOVE others.- God is for us- not against us!
Does love murder? Does love hate others? Does love commit adultery? Does love steal? Lie to others? Jealous of others? Is love Greedy?
does love act arrogant? selfish? rude? etc.....
If we keep our eyes on Jesus ( Hebrews) and walk in the Spirit we are able to put the death the deeds of the flesh. God is working IN US to change us- to help us- to show us. Yes, we participate & cooperate! Are we saving ourselves? No. we can't- What we are doing is becoming more like Christ. It always goes back to LOVE. Every time. There is nothing he asks of us that doesn't involve love.

It has just been a question of what is on the line if I don't do this "obedience", an attempt to understanding the "contract" or "terms and conditions". I don't like being lied to, and I was struggling to see how what I was being told wasn't a lie. It wasn't that I was unwilling. As explained in a previous reply, God said He wanted service with no fear, etc, and I couldn't understand how that could be.

What it isn't- is do this, 'do that and you will be saved. It is -go and love.
Can you forgive others if you first have not been shown His love of your own forgiveness? You never deserved it. So forgive others!
Do you see someone in need and turn your back? Is that what I did to you? Go and help!
Do you see someone sinning and hate them? Is that what I did to you? Hate the sin but love the sinner!
I challenge you GP- name one act of obedience that isn't about LOVE.

If you feel threatened by torment- you have not been perfected in LOVE.

This God of ours- He showed us what love looks like and all He asks is for us to show love. Love for Him and love for others. He gave us every reason to love Him on the cross. He gave us of His Spirit to aid us. Where is your burden? Where is this threat?

If you don't want to be loving- DON'T- but don't blame God for not holding up His end of the promise. His promise it for all- here is salvation this is the way- walk in it. Walk in love as I have shown you. If you are my child- act like it- I will Help you- give love to others.
That's your threat? He wants you to LOVE?

Can you get it? There are so many people who become "religious"- they are so worried about being "religious" and what they lack is LOVE. You can follow the 10 commandments - or try to- but if you forget LOVE what good is that?
You can pray 5 times a day and not eat bacon and be full of hatred. I grew up with religion- ! It's rubbish!

If LOVE is your guide you wont want to break His commands. And further, you wont hold hate in your heart which is murder. Or lust which is adultery. when you do hate someone- you will be reminded by the Holy Spirit who convicts us of sin- be grateful for the help!
Following the 10 commandments goes nowhere without the inward change- the circumcism of the heart- from stone to flesh- the regeneration- the Spirit of Christ in you. Most avoid murdering another literally- and yet murder by hatred.
God asks us to look upon others and He looked upon us- With compassion and the willingness to help, although we didn't deserve it.
A threat?

Do you have to go to the street corner and preach in order to be saved? No. We are not all teachers- our gifts vary from- those who run the soup kitchens or visit in the hospitals, or orphanages to those who exhort or showing mercy, generosity, helpers, administration, leaders, and so forth.
Did you know that there are those who are won over to Christ without a word but by seeing what you do? Seeing Christ in you? It's true. We can be a seed planter or a waterer and not even know it. Actions can speak louder than words. Talk can be cheap. We are all a part of the body- none of us are the whole- we have a place. The pinky finger may be small but needed, right? Sometimes, it's the lady in the back of the church kitchen with the mop singing joyfully that someone is impressed by. We never know how God will use us at any given time.- We are just available and are eager to do good.

I see no threats. What I see is a willingness to be a member of Christ's body and love others. If we are threatened because Our God asks us to love- then this threat is one I want to embrace.
Your threat of hell-- means what? If it is a threat to you- then that must mean you feel that you can not--
murder, cheat on your wife, rape the child next door, watch porn, sodomize, hate people, steal from them, lie to them, withhold help from those in need, be self centered, etc.. DO YOU WANT TO DO THOSE THINGS? that's what your threat is about. -don't be a hate filled scumbag or you are no part of me. Do you blame Him?
Give love instead..

ALL He asks is that we walk in his love-and he supplies us with His Spirit to help us because he is working within us.--- how threatening.?
You see, it IS all about Love. His love for us should extend from us to others. treat others the way you want to be treated?
How threatening?
How Could we have a better God than this?

Anyway, I am starting to see another "side" to the matter. Thanks to all praying for me.

 

[FaithWillDo]

What counts for babes counts for all, there is no difference.

Dear ProDeo,
No, there is a big difference between a "babe" and a converted believer. The converted believer is a saint and is saved. A babe is only called to be a saint and is not saved.

Babes have only been given a small measure of the Holy Spirit. Converted believers have been given the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

In the farming analogy, the small measure of the Holy Spirit is called the Early Rain.

Paul received the Early Rain on the Damascus Road. The apostles received the Early Rain just before they recognized Jesus was the Christ.

The Early Rain is what causes an unbeliever to have faith in Christ after they hear the Word. It is why some people have faith in Christ and why others do not. If a person has no faith, it is only because they have not been given the Early Rain.

The Early Rain, however, will not convert the person. It will leave them carnally minded and spiritually blind. The believers in the Corinthian church were babes.

After a time of waiting though (if the babe is elect), Christ will come to the babe a second time and give them the baptism of the Spirit. This is called the Latter Rain.

Paul received the Latter Rain after his three days in Damascus were complete. The apostles received the Latter Rain on the Day of Pentecost.

The Latter Rain is what heals a babe's spiritual blindness so that the spiritual teachings of Christ will open up to their understanding. Babes are blind to these spiritual truths, and because of such, Satan can easily deceive them.

This is what Christ was teaching below:

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

The spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents a spirit which teaches Satan's false truth through lies and deceptions.

Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit, they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more. The number "seven" represents perfection. In this case, the number seven represents the perfection of Satan's lies/deceptions which come to a believer by the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within the believer, they now have EIGHT. The number eight is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first.

This "worse than the first" spiritual condition causes the believer to become a False Prophet, a Man of Sin, a Minister of Satan and a Seven Headed Beast with Ten Horns & Crowns.

As I said, there is a big difference between converted believer and a babe. One is saved and one is not.

Joe

 

[LoveYeshua]

Dear LoveYeshua,
You said:
But He also said, “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father” (Matthew 7:21). Becoming as a child means humbling ourselves and obeying Him, not remaining blind or carnal.

Jesus is the only one who can heal the blind and give a person the "mind of Christ" (a non-carnal mind) so that they can understand His truth and obey His laws. Mankind, in their created state, is spiritually marred and subject to vanity. In this condition, no one has the ability to obey Christ or to even understand Him. If anyone could, the Old Covenant of Law would have saved people. But because it couldn't save anyone, Christ gave us a New Covenant where He would do all the work of saving us. To save us, Christ will change us spiritually to be like Him. This process is called conversion. If Christ does not convert a person, they will never be obedient to God's laws.

The rejected believers who are mentioned in Mat 7:21 are babes who Christ did not convert. Their rejection is from no fault of their own.
They represent the "many" who were called to be saints (Early Rain only) but who were not chosen to actually become saints (converted). They simply were not blessed by God.

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

So why does Christ reject these believers? He does so because they are unfaithful and still prefer the Old Wine:

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

Because unconverted babes prefer the Old Wine, they will mix it with the New Wine. This mixing of the Old and New Covenants causes them to be unfaithful and to remain under the Law. In other words, they are trying to serve two masters (Satan and Christ).

When a babe mixes the two wines, they have been bitten by Satan and have become apostate.

Prov 23:26 My son, give me thine heart, and let thine eyes observe my ways. 27 For a whore is a deep ditch; and a strange woman is a narrow pit. 28 She also lieth in wait as for a prey, and increases the transgressors among men. 29 Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? 30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine (Old Covenant mixed with the New Covenant). 31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red (Old Wine/Old Covenant), when it giveth his color in the cup, when it moves itself (man’s works) aright. 32 At the last it bites like a serpent, and stings like an adder.

You said:
The Lord taught that we must repent and believe (Mark 1:15), keep His commandments if we want life (Matthew 19:17), hear His word and keep it (Luke 11:28), and build on the Rock by doing what He says (Matthew 7:24–27).

Yes, God's Word makes those statements but it also states that the children of the Devil (all mankind) have no ability to do them. Only the children of God have these abilities because they have Christ within them doing these things for them.

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is CHRIST IN YOU, the hope of glory (salvation):

Until a person is converted, they cannot repent, believe, keep His commandments or build on the Rock.

Believing as you do, you are mixing your own works with faith. True faith in Christ is trusting Him to do all that is necessary to save us.

Rom 8:30 Moreover whom HE did predestinate, them HE also called: and whom HE called, them HE also justified: and whom HE justified, them HE also glorified.

There is no "me" or "I" in the verse above. Christ is the one who causes us to repent. Christ is the one who causes us to believe and have faith. Christ is the one who causes us to do good works. Christ is the one who causes us to keep His commandments. Christ is the one causes us to mature into a man of God of full age. Our entire salvation comes solely (100%) from Christ and the work that He does within us - and it was decided before the foundation of the world who He will do this work within. Mankind has no ability to choose Christ. Christ must choose us.

You said:
Salvation is God’s gift, but entering the kingdom requires our response, for “faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead” (James 2:17). In the end, Jesus summed it up in the simplest way: “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15).

You are assuming that a person has the ability to have faith, to do good works and to keep His commandments before they are converted. Scripture says that the natural man does NOT have these abilities.

Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity (hatred) against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The Old Covenant was given to be our schoolmaster to teach us the truths that are taught in the verses above. After Christ has taught us these truths, He will cause us to turn to Him and repent of our belief in our own works. This is true repentance and it comes from God.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that (our faith) not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

2Tim 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; IF GOD PERADVENTURE WILL GIVE THEM repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

Joe

Hello Joe, thank you for the reply. I will be honest with you , I do not share most of your views on scripture, for instance I do not believe predestination, this is only one item. I am always willing to discuss scripture but to avoid confusion and very long and complicated replies, one item at a time. Know also that I almost never if ever quote Paul the reason is evident, his teachings are hard to understand (2Peter 3:16) and confusing for so many. I will be available to discuss any scripture other than paul's epistle, too many arguments leading nowhere would result, sorry.

 

[Brakelite]

God’s initiatives are not accomplished automatically. Instead, they require the faithful response of His people. That is, with all that God has done for us—including all that He has done for us that we cannot do for ourselves—we are then called to do what we can do for ourselves, which is to obey what God commands us to do. This is how it has always been in all of sacred history, and it remains so today. For example, the depiction of God’s end-time people in Revelation 14:12 conveys the same idea: faith in what God has done for us, which leads to obedience.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Hello Joe, thank you for the reply. I will be honest with you , I do not share most of your views on scripture, for instance I do not believe predestination, this is only one item. I am always willing to discuss scripture but to avoid confusion and very long and complicated replies, one item at a time. Know also that I almost never if ever quote Paul the reason is evident, his teachings are hard to understand (2Peter 3:16) and confusing for so many. I will be available to discuss any scripture other than paul's epistle, too many arguments leading nowhere would result, sorry.

Dear LoveYeshua,
I will try to stick to just one subject though it is difficult to do since the truth of scripture is interconnected (here a little and there a little, Isa 28:9-12).

Since you mentioned Paul and his letters, I will address why people have difficulty with his letters first and then apply that reason to the subject of conversion.

Paul utilizes Christ's spiritual language in his letters. If a person has not had their spiritual blindness healed, they will find Paul's letters difficult to understand. Poor and incorrect translations add to the difficulty, too.

Here is what Paul says:

1Cor 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

1Cor 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things (words) with spiritual (words).

Paul teaches in a mystery by using spirit words (John 6:63) which carry meanings that are different than what man's wisdom teaches. To understand the true meanings of Christ's spirit words, a person must be guided by the Spirit of Truth and compare spirit words with how they are used elsewhere in scripture.

Below is an easy example on the spirit word "sword" as it relates to conversion. If a person doesn't understand the spiritual process of conversion, they are going to misunderstand many of Christ's teachings.

Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Does Christ really mean that if you use a sword to kill others, then you must likewise be killed with a sword? Literally, that is what He is saying. However, if we understand this verse literally (as man's wisdom teaches), that statement can easily be proven to be false. There are countless examples of people who have used violence to kill others but then do not die from that same type of violence - it almost goes without saying.

Is Christ mistaken or is His message something else?

In Matt 26:52, Christ is using the spirit word Sword to teach His spiritual message. To understand what this spiritual symbol represents, we must look at how it is used elsewhere in scripture. As Paul said to do, we must compare spiritual words with spiritual words.

Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edge sword...

Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp two-edged sword...

From the verses presented above, it is easy to understand that the spirit word Sword represents the Word of God who is Christ.

Christ’s hidden spiritual message He is teaching in Matt 26:52 is that all who take up the Sword (those who have been given the Early Rain of the Spirit and have been “called to be a saint”), will later perish by the Sword (death of the child of the devil) when they are converted. This death is a necessary part of the conversion process which happens when the Word of God (Christ, the Sword) comes to a person a second time and gives them the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain), followed by the Baptism of Fire (judgment):

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, and with Fire.

This same conversion event presented above is what the Apostles experienced on the Day of Pentecost:

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of FIRE, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the HOLY SPIRIT, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

In the spiritual language of Christ, the Apostles took up the Sword and then died by the Sword. But because the Apostles were “born again” (Latter Rain) as a child of God prior to being slain by the Sword, their lives continued on as a new creation of God. It is in this way that Christ will save all mankind.

In light of what I presented above, do you understand what this verse below is teaching?

Isa 66:16 For by fire (judgment) and by his sword (Word of God) will the LORD plead with all flesh (all mankind): and the slain of the LORD shall be many (all mankind).

Like Mat 26:52, the verse above is teaching about the baptism of Fire which occurs during the conversion event. And like all of Christ’s New Covenant teachings, its message is hidden in His spiritual language. The “many” who are “slain of the Lord” is a prophecy that is teaching that all mankind will be converted & saved. This death will only occur after each individual has been given their new birth as a child of God by the baptism of the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain).

Do you now understand the process of conversion and why it is necessary for our salvation?

Here is one more concept to consider that may help:

John 3:18 He (the child of God) that believeth on him is not condemned: but he (the child of the Devil) that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The children of the Devil cannot believe in Christ. They are just too spiritually blind and carnally minded. Because the child of the Devil sins and cannot believe in Christ, he is "condemned already". His fate is sealed and nothing can change his destiny that awaits him in the Lake of Fire. But because Christ loves mankind, He is not willing for anyone to perish (2Pet 3:9). For this reason, Christ will give every person who has ever lived a new birth as a child of God prior to the death of the child of the Devil.

In this age, Christ is saving those blessed individuals (first fruits of the harvest) who were chosen for an early salvation in this present age. In the final age, Christ will bring in the final and great harvest of mankind at "year's end":

Exo 34:22 And thou shalt observe the Feast of Weeks, of the firstfruits of the wheat harvest (the Elect), and the Feast of Ingathering at the year's end (the balance of mankind).

By the end of the final age, all mankind will be destroyed in the Lake of Fire but the Kingdom of Heaven will be that much fuller.

These verses apply:

Rom 5:18 so then as it was by one offence towards all men to condemnation, so by one righteousness towards all men for justification of life. 19 For as indeed by the disobedience of the one man (Adam) the many have been constituted sinners, so also by the obedience of the one (Christ) the many will be constituted righteous.

1Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Joe

 

[ProDeo]

Dear ProDeo,
No, there is a big difference between a "babe" and a converted believer. The converted believer is a saint and is saved. A babe is only called to be a saint and is not saved.

A babe in Christ is saved.

There is nothing more to say.

 

[Brakelite]

A babe in Christ is saved.

There is nothing more to say.

Oh, I think there's much more to say. How can any being "in Christ" not be saved? How can a babe, a newly born again Christian, not be saved?

 

[soberxp]

Good reply.
The other poster made statements that would require a very long reply...
so much there.

He said we contribute nothing to our salvation.
I hope @soberxp reads his post no. 241.
I've tried to explain to soberxp what some mean by the expression FAITH ALONE.

They mean what the other member stated: That we are saved by faith alone and that we can contribute NOTHING to our salvation.
This is taught NOWHERE in the NT.

Faith Alone is an expression that is never used in the New Testament except for one time and it's used in the negative !

James 2:24
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

A man is NOT saved by faith alone.

I have known that question for a long time. It was in another forum about it. The post argued for a long time and very long long posts. At that time, I didn't know who was right.

Our work or good work not rely on ourselves.
Our work or good work rely on Christ who working in us.
That is faith by work.

We should consider whether we rely on Christ to working in us.

Not rely on what we call work of the flesh.for the work of the flesh, we always disagree with what the Christ teachings.


By flesh which is always in the storm center.
By Christ which is always in the peace.(Walking on water)

 

[Brakelite]

Dear LoveYeshua,
I will try to stick to just one subject though it is difficult to do since the truth of scripture is interconnected (here a little and there a little, Isa 28:9-12).

Since you mentioned Paul and his letters, I will address why people have difficulty with his letters first and then apply that reason to the subject of conversion.

Paul utilizes Christ's spiritual language in his letters. If a person has not had their spiritual blindness healed, they will find Paul's letters difficult to understand. Poor and incorrect translations add to the difficulty, too.

Here is what Paul says:

1Cor 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

1Cor 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things (words) with spiritual (words).

Paul teaches in a mystery by using spirit words (John 6:63) which carry meanings that are different than what man's wisdom teaches. To understand the true meanings of Christ's spirit words, a person must be guided by the Spirit of Truth and compare spirit words with how they are used elsewhere in scripture.

Below is an easy example on the spirit word "sword" as it relates to conversion. If a person doesn't understand the spiritual process of conversion, they are going to misunderstand many of Christ's teachings.

Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Does Christ really mean that if you use a sword to kill others, then you must likewise be killed with a sword? Literally, that is what He is saying. However, if we understand this verse literally (as man's wisdom teaches), that statement can easily be proven to be false. There are countless examples of people who have used violence to kill others but then do not die from that same type of violence - it almost goes without saying.

Is Christ mistaken or is His message something else?

In Matt 26:52, Christ is using the spirit word Sword to teach His spiritual message. To understand what this spiritual symbol represents, we must look at how it is used elsewhere in scripture. As Paul said to do, we must compare spiritual words with spiritual words.

Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edge sword...

Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp two-edged sword...

From the verses presented above, it is easy to understand that the spirit word Sword represents the Word of God who is Christ.

Christ’s hidden spiritual message He is teaching in Matt 26:52 is that all who take up the Sword (those who have been given the Early Rain of the Spirit and have been “called to be a saint”), will later perish by the Sword (death of the child of the devil) when they are converted. This death is a necessary part of the conversion process which happens when the Word of God (Christ, the Sword) comes to a person a second time and gives them the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain), followed by the Baptism of Fire (judgment):

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, and with Fire.

This same conversion event presented above is what the Apostles experienced on the Day of Pentecost:

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of FIRE, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the HOLY SPIRIT, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

In the spiritual language of Christ, the Apostles took up the Sword and then died by the Sword. But because the Apostles were “born again” (Latter Rain) as a child of God prior to being slain by the Sword, their lives continued on as a new creation of God. It is in this way that Christ will save all mankind.

In light of what I presented above, do you understand what this verse below is teaching?

Isa 66:16 For by fire (judgment) and by his sword (Word of God) will the LORD plead with all flesh (all mankind): and the slain of the LORD shall be many (all mankind).

Like Mat 26:52, the verse above is teaching about the baptism of Fire which occurs during the conversion event. And like all of Christ’s New Covenant teachings, its message is hidden in His spiritual language. The “many” who are “slain of the Lord” is a prophecy that is teaching that all mankind will be converted & saved. This death will only occur after each individual has been given their new birth as a child of God by the baptism of the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain).

Do you now understand the process of conversion and why it is necessary for our salvation?

Here is one more concept to consider that may help:

John 3:18 He (the child of God) that believeth on him is not condemned: but he (the child of the Devil) that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The children of the Devil cannot believe in Christ. They are just too spiritually blind and carnally minded. Because the child of the Devil sins and cannot believe in Christ, he is "condemned already". His fate is sealed and nothing can change his destiny that awaits him in the Lake of Fire. But because Christ loves mankind, He is not willing for anyone to perish (2Pet 3:9). For this reason, Christ will give every person who has ever lived a new birth as a child of God prior to the death of the child of the Devil.

In this age, Christ is saving those blessed individuals (first fruits of the harvest) who were chosen for an early salvation in this present age. In the final age, Christ will bring in the final and great harvest of mankind at "year's end":

Exo 34:22 And thou shalt observe the Feast of Weeks, of the firstfruits of the wheat harvest (the Elect), and the Feast of Ingathering at the year's end (the balance of mankind).

By the end of the final age, all mankind will be destroyed in the Lake of Fire but the Kingdom of Heaven will be that much fuller.

These verses apply:

Rom 5:18 so then as it was by one offence towards all men to condemnation, so by one righteousness towards all men for justification of life. 19 For as indeed by the disobedience of the one man (Adam) the many have been constituted sinners, so also by the obedience of the one (Christ) the many will be constituted righteous.

1Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Joe

Although,, Jesus could certainly be correct literally of the word sword that He used as a metaphor for violence and any form of weapon, I including words.
Two reasons why it would likely not be your interpretation.
A. In the context He was using that phrase,
“52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. 53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? 54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be? ”
Matthew 26:52-54 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

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Obviously nothing to do with conversion.

B. The word perish is never used in scripture pertaining to a death to self or conversation experience, in fact, the exact opposite.

“15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. ”
John 3:15-16 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

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[ProDeo]

Oh, I think there's much more to say. How can any being "in Christ" not be saved? How can a babe, a newly born again Christian, not be saved?

That.

Apparently that as reply is misunderstood by @soberxp, so I stand corrected and of course fully agree with the rhetoric question.

 

[soberxp]

That.

Maybe not that.
Maybe be those:"not everyone call the lord,and knows what they call"
LOL.

 

[ProDeo]

Maybe not that.
Maybe be those:"not everyone call me lord."
LOL.

See above