Only Those Who Do the Will of God Will Enter the Kingdom

[GodsGrace]

What are you talking about? lol No it certainly does not. HOW do you get that out this??? What do you think it means NOTHING means?
You can GIVE away all of your belongings and do so without LOVE. It means nothing!!
Paul said it.
It means whatever we do- we do out of love. My POINT has been all along that we obey because we LOVE- we do good deeds because we LOVE.
IF that love is not in us- we have no part in Christ. God is love and if he lives in you- you will have love.
If you don't have love in you (Christ) and do works out of fear or desire to earn-- you are LOST.

Well PS,,,you can think about this some more.

A person can give all their belongings away...
but
Do they have faith?

If they do,,,it counts...
if they do not...it does not count.

We have to obey,,,whether we want to or not.

If we do works God is pleased....

If we do them out of fear or to earn something...(your words)
AND we have faith...

WHY do you think we'll be lost.

And why do YOU get to determine who is lost and who is not?

Did I post John 15:1-2?

What do YOU think Jesus meant to teach?

 

[GodsGrace]

Good grief..
It's as if you want to find something to argue about.
I'm done.
Take care.

So PS...
where is all this love in your heart that you keep talking about??
You sound rather upset.

And I'm not ARGUING....
I'm discussing theology.

You're not debating with me PS....
I just post scripture...
you're debating with Jesus.

HE said that those that do the will of the Father are going to heaven...
not me.

 

[GodsGrace]

Im very focused on keeping real chrisitans from being led into any "doctrine of Devils"..., whether it be a Cult or a false Gospel, or similar.
This is one of the main reasons i also work on Fourms for a long time.

So, revealing the Mary Cult to Christians, is the same for me as revealing Calvinism or Satanism or Mormonism, or JW.....to Christians.
The goal, is to keep weak Christian away from this deception, or to help people who are deceive by any of these religious cults from being mentally trapped by these cults till they die.

Its always interesting to watch someone who claims to be a Christian, defend Mary Adulation.
As they can't use a bible and defend all the different "Marian teachings"......as none of them are found in a bible., and they dont care about this at all.
So, that proves that there is something definitelhy wrong with their thinking.

For example, no Apostle prayed to Mary, in the NT, and John was alive to a very very old age, and never spoke about this, and He was with Mary, during Christ's Crucifixion.

Or take something like the "Acension of Mary" into heaven......in her dead body.
This ridiculous teaching was DECIDED to become "dogma"... in "1950.
And once again, its not found in a bible.....and Catholics do not care as they are always creating some new nonsense "Mary dogma".

If you stopped this Mary "Obsession", in Catholiciam, "no more praying to Mary".. "no more celebrating Mary"....then everyone would leave it., as that is how deceived they are by this nonsense.
-
View attachment 71107

Read the first few sentences.

OSAS is a doctrine of demons.
And YOU teach it.


1 Timothy 4:1
1 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,

 

[soberxp]

All we are is talking over each other.
All we are is talking over each other.
All we are is talking over each other.

 

[PS95]

So PS...
where is all this love in your heart that you keep talking about??
You sound rather upset.

And I'm not ARGUING....
I'm discussing theology.

You're not debating with me PS....
I just post scripture...
you're debating with Jesus.

HE said that those that do the will of the Father are going to heaven...
not me.

I'm not upset- but maybe if you read your own posts you will see I felt it was wiser to stop the convo. look at your accusations- and you want to tell me I am not loving. lol

 

[LoveYeshua]

You must pray to Mary a lot.
You seem obsessed.

Before I reply to the above...
I replied to ALL of your verses.

Why are you sending me new ones?

Please reply to the verses I provided for you - showing how a person must BELIEVE FIRST in order to be saved.
God does NOT give us faith first so that we could believe.

We believe and then we have the faith necessary for salvation.

Apparently you don't agree with the verses I posted which are teachings from Paul and Matthew.

Perhaps you could go through the verses and post your understanding of what Paul and Jesus are teaching (in mMatthew),

Apparently you also do not believe Jesus when He states that only those that do the will of the Father will see heaven.
Obeying the Father means doing good works.
Apparently you don't believe the Father requires obedience.

Matthew 7:21
21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.


Will wait for your reply.

it will be neverending, beware!

 

[PS95]

Well PS,,,you can think about this some more.

A person can give all their belongings away...
but
Do they have faith?

If they do,,,it counts...
if they do not...it does not count.

We have to obey,,,whether we want to or not.

If we do works God is pleased....

If we do them out of fear or to earn something...(your words)
AND we have faith...

WHY do you think we'll be lost.

And why do YOU get to determine who is lost and who is not?

Did I post John 15:1-2?

What do YOU think Jesus meant to teach?

Excuse me- i posted scripture- you just didn't recognize it---
Faith- works- NEITHER is MORE IMPORTANT THAN LOVE-

1 Corinthians 13

Gifts
"Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal"

Giving away all things- or being a martyr

"And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor,
and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing."

OR the gift of prophecy or all knowledge OR all FAITH?

" If I have the gift of prophecy and know all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing"

God sees the heart- the motive! Without a changed heart- nothing matters. THAT is what God does.- circumcises the heart!
You aren't arguing with me.. it's scripture. AND yes it absolutely has also been my experience that you mocked.

 

[soberxp]

You must pray to Mary a lot.
You seem obsessed.

A Catholic once explained to me that they believe prayers can be more readily accepted by God through the intercession of Mary.

I respect this explanation, yet I consider it an unnecessary act( matthew 6:7 ) . They hold Mary in high regard, and so do I. In fact, I have even come across depictions of obsession with Mary in some novels.

matthew
6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

6:8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Before I reply to the above...
I replied to ALL of your verses.

Why are you sending me new ones?

Please reply to the verses I provided for you - showing how a person must BELIEVE FIRST in order to be saved.
God does NOT give us faith first so that we could believe.

We believe and then we have the faith necessary for salvation.

Apparently you don't agree with the verses I posted which are teachings from Paul and Matthew.

Perhaps you could go through the verses and post your understanding of what Paul and Jesus are teaching (in mMatthew),

Apparently you also do not believe Jesus when He states that only those that do the will of the Father will see heaven.
Obeying the Father means doing good works.
Apparently you don't believe the Father requires obedience.

Matthew 7:21
21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.


Will wait for your reply.

Dear GodsGrace,
I did reply to those scriptures in a general way.

You said:
Please reply to the verses I provided for you - showing how a person must BELIEVE FIRST in order to be saved.

Yes, a person will believe FIRST before they are saved. I have never said otherwise. The problem you are having is that you don't understand when salvation occurs.

Here is a quick summary of what I have presented in some of my posts (with a little more).

Salvation is not getting to go to a place called heaven. Salvation is being converted from a child of the Devil into a child of God. I can't stress this point enough.

After Christ has given a person BOTH the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit, they will be "born again" and will become a child of God. Judgment will then follow to remove and destroy all the spiritual things within the person that has caused them to be carnally minded and sinful (a child of the Devil/man of sin). After this judgment is complete, the person is converted and SAVED. It is at this point that a "babe" becomes a "little child" who has entered the Kingdom of Heaven.

Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Heaven is not a place in the sense that you believe because the Kingdom of Heaven is "within" a person.

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The Kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

After the person is saved and has entered the Kingdom of Heaven, Christ will continue to feed the "little child" His truth (bread & New Wine) to mature them into a man of full age. Along the way, when the child strays, Christ will chastise them so that they will learn His righteous ways.

This verse applies:

Isa 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

The "earth" is the New Earth which represents the person's new spirit that is governed by the Holy Spirit, whereby giving their spirit a divine spiritual nature. It is from the New Earth that the person will learn righteousness.

Now for your point on believing FIRST before a person is saved. That concept is certainly true and is what the scriptures teach.

Here is how it works:

Christ will come to an unbeliever without their asking Him to come and without their permission. When He comes to them, Christ will give them a small measure of the Holy Spirit (Early Rain). This small measure of the Holy Spirit will give them faith when they hear the Word. Their faith will then result in a public confession of faith. This confession is the evidence that they have received the Early Rain. They are then to be baptized in water which represents the same thing. However, the person is not saved at this point because they are not converted yet. They are justified by their faith though and are no longer under the Law of Sin and Death.

What I explained above is the spiritual condition that all the OT faithful had when they died. They were not saved yet (made perfect/converted) but their names will be found in the Lamb's book of Life because of their faith that the Early Rain gave them.

Heb 11:39 And these all (OT faithful), having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect (converted).

All believers in this age start off with the spiritual process that I described above. After a person becomes a "babe", they will remain spiritually blind and carnally minded (just as the OT faithful were). In that condition, Satan will deceive them and they will all fall away and become unfaithful. Since they are now unfaithful, they are no longer justified and the Law of Sin and Death still accuses them.

This verse now applies:

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

For the apostate babes who are not chosen, Christ will not return to them and pour out the Latter Rain to restore their faith. They will die in their sins and will receive their portion with the unbelievers in the Lake of Fire.

For the apostate babes who are chosen, Christ will return to them and pour out the Latter Rain. This will restore their faith and heal their spiritual blindness. Christ will then appear and convert them into a child of God, destroying the child of the Devil in the process. The person is now converted and "saved".

This verse applies:

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

The verse above describes our salvation and Christ accomplishes it by His spiritual work of conversion.

The saved person's belief & faith in Christ came FIRST and it was given to them by Christ via the Early and Latter Rains.

As Paul frequently states, salvation is a free gift from God but we all must wait for our turn to be given this gift. In this age, Christ is only saving the people who were blessed from the foundation of the world to be saved first (as First Fruits). They are called the Elect and they will be the heirs of Abraham. They will receive the rewards of having "life" during the ages and the honor of reigning with Christ in the final age.

The purpose of the final age is to judge the "goats". This is symbolized by the goats being cast into the Lake of Fire (a symbol for judgment, not literal fire). The penalty for their sin is death. But before anyone perishes from this judgment, Christ will have MERCY upon them and will bless them by giving them the Early and Latter Rains. With the Spirit indwelling them, each person will have FAITH which will make Christ's pathway straight for Him to come to them and convert them. The newly born child of God will then be gathered to heaven, leaving the child of the Devil (who they used to be) in the Lake of Fire to perish. This death will satisfy JUSTICE.

These verses apply:

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun (Christ) to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain (both the Early and Latter Rain) on the just and on the unjust.

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: JUSTICE, MERCY, AND FAITH: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

After the last person of mankind is saved, the scripture below will be testified (legally proven) to be true:

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

What I explained above is the true Gospel of Christ.

Joe

 

[LoveYeshua]

A Catholic once explained to me that they believe prayers can be more readily accepted by God through the intercession of Mary.

I respect this explanation, yet I consider it an unnecessary act( matthew 6:7 ) . They hold Mary in high regard, and so do I. In fact, I have even come across depictions of obsession with Mary in some novels.

matthew
6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

6:8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

I assure you it cannot be, when we die ( except for a few exceptions ) the bible says we lose consciousness until the resurrection, so in essence Mary cannot intercede for us, I can provide the verses if you need. Mary was indeed a Holy Woman chosen by GOD, but Jesus was clear we have to pray to the father only. you are correct to mention matthew 6:7-9.

Blessings.

 

[soberxp]

Dear GodsGrace,
I did reply to those scriptures in a general way.

You said:
Please reply to the verses I provided for you - showing how a person must BELIEVE FIRST in order to be saved.

Yes, a person will believe FIRST before they are saved. I have never said otherwise. The problem you are having is that you don't understand when salvation occurs.

Here is a quick summary of what I have presented in some of my posts (with a little more).

Salvation is not getting to go to a place called heaven. Salvation is being converted from a child of the Devil into a child of God. I can't stress this point enough.

After Christ has given a person BOTH the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit, they will be "born again" and will become a child of God. Judgment will then follow to remove and destroy all the spiritual things within the person that has caused them to be carnally minded and sinful (a child of the Devil/man of sin). After this judgment is complete, the person is converted and SAVED. It is at this point that a "babe" becomes a "little child" who has entered the Kingdom of Heaven.

Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Heaven is not a place in the sense that you believe because the Kingdom of Heaven is "within" a person.

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The Kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

After the person is saved and has entered the Kingdom of Heaven, Christ will continue to feed the "little child" His truth (bread & New Wine) to mature them into a man of full age. Along the way, when the child strays, Christ will chastise them so that they will learn His righteous ways.

This verse applies:

Isa 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

The "earth" is the New Earth which represents the person's new spirit that is governed by the Holy Spirit, whereby giving their spirit a divine spiritual nature. It is from the New Earth that the person will learn righteousness.

Now for your point on believing FIRST before a person is saved. That concept is certainly true and is what the scriptures teaches.

Here is how it works:

Christ will come to an unbeliever without their asking Him to come and without their permission. When He comes to them, Christ will give them a small measure of the Holy Spirit (Early Rain). This small measure of the Holy Spirit will give them faith when they hear the Word. Their faith will then result in a public confession of faith. This confession is the evidence that they have received the Early Rain. They are then to be baptized in water which represents the same thing. However, the person is not saved at this point because they are not converted yet. They are justified by their faith though and are no longer under the Law of Sin and Death.

What I explained above is the spiritual condition that all the OT faithful had when they died. They were not saved yet (made perfect/converted) but their names will be found in the Lamb's book of Life because of their faith that the Early Rain gave them.

Heb 11:39 And these all (OT faithful), having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect (converted).

All believers in this age start off with the spiritual process that I described above. After a person becomes a "babe", they will remain spiritually blind and carnally minded (just as the OT faithful were). In that condition, Satan will deceive them and they will all fall away and become unfaithful. Since they are now unfaithful, they are no longer justified and the Law of Sin and Death still accuses them.

This verse now applies:

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

For the apostate babes who are not chosen, Christ will not return to them and pour out the Latter Rain to restore their faith. They will die in their sins and will receive their portion with the unbelievers in the Lake of Fire.

For the apostate babes who are chosen, Christ will return to them and pour out the Latter Rain. This will restore their faith and heal their spiritual blindness. Christ will then appear and convert them into a child of God, destroying the child of the Devil in the process. The person is now converted and "saved".

This verse applies:

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

The verse above describes our salvation and Christ accomplishes it by His spiritual work of conversion.

The saved person's belief & faith in Christ came FIRST and it was given to them by Christ via the Early and Latter Rains.

As Paul frequently states, salvation is a free gift from God but we all must wait for our turn to be given this gift. In this age, Christ is only saving the people who were blessed from the foundation of the world to be saved first (as First Fruits). They are called the Elect and they will be the heirs of Abraham. They will receive the rewards of having "life" during the ages and the honor of reigning with Christ in the final age.

The purpose of the final age is to judge the "goats". This is symbolized by the goats being cast into the Lake of Fire (a symbol for judgment, not literal fire). The penalty for their sin is death. But before anyone perishes from this judgment, Christ will have MERCY upon them and will bless them by giving them the Early and Latter Rains. With the Spirit indwelling them, each person will have FAITH which will make Christ's pathway straight for Him to come to them and convert them. The newly born child of God will then be gathered to heaven, leaving the child of the Devil (who they used to be) in the Lake of Fire to perish. This death will satisfy JUSTICE.

These verses apply:

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun (Christ) to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain (both the Early and Latter Rain) on the just and on the unjust.

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: JUSTICE, MERCY, AND FAITH: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

After the last person of mankind is saved, the scripture below will be testified (legally proven) to be true:

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

What I explained above is the true Gospel of Christ.

Joe

That make sense!

But do you think that some people are children of the devil from start to finish? Or is this merely the worst-case scenario—a kind of admonition, a warning?

 

[FaithWillDo]

You obviously do not understand that if Jesus is doing all the work for us....

then it is Jesus who is responsible if we disobey God,,,fall away,,,,and become lost.

Apparently you believe it is GOD that causes man to sin.

Dear GodsGrace,
Yes, it is God who made mankind spiritually marred and subject to vanity so that mankind would become sinful creatures. He even created Satan and the fallen angels to be mankind's tempters so that mankind would sin all the more.

When a person's sins, it is because it was God's "will" for it to happen. God puts all the pieces in place so that the only outcome is for the person to make the decision to sin (even a specific sin and at a specific time). God leaves nothing up to chance or to mankind's "will". The apostate church's false belief in mankind's free will ability is not true. God directs all our steps, including when we sin.

Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.

Here is what Paul said to those who questioned him about this truth:

Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

You must understand that the purpose for this creation is to create new offspring for God who will be fully made in His image and who have a knowledge of good and evil. This is the work that the Father gave Christ to accomplish.

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Everything that God is doing is for this great and glorious purpose of producing His new children. In the end, God will have many new children (all mankind) who will be like Him in character and who also have a knowledge of good and evil. After the last person is saved, Christ will deliver up the Kingdom of Heaven to His Father and God will then be "all in all" (1Cor 15:22-28).

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

That make sense!

But do you think that some people are children of the devil from start to finish? Or is this merely the worst-case scenario—a kind of admonition, a warning?

Dear soberxp,
Yes, in fact, most of mankind will remain children of the Devil until they die. Those who are blessed to be converted into the children of God in this age are very few in number. Most of mankind is not called to be a saint but many are. From that group of many, a few have been chosen to be saved before they die. They are highly blessed.

For those who die as children of the Devil, they will be judged by the Law of Sin and Death upon their resurrection from the grave. But before any of them perish, Christ will have mercy upon them and give them the faith they need to make His pathway straight so that He will come to them and convert them. In the end, all mankind will be saved.

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

What I have explained above is the true good news that should be proclaimed to this world. Christ loves all mankind and will not stop His work until the last person of mankind has been saved.

For more details on this subject, you can read my last two posts to GodsGrace.

Joe

 

[LoveYeshua]

That make sense!

But do you think that some people are children of the devil from start to finish? Or is this merely the worst-case scenario—a kind of admonition, a warning?

I think people can be influenced by the evil of this world, at some point they can become evil themselves as it is their natural inclination unfortunately. Many are tested and will be tested, God does test our faith have no doubt about it. The book of Job explains this. But evil from the start, I do not believe so but it is not impossible I guess.

Blessings.

 

[soberxp]

Dear GodsGrace,
Yes, it is God who made mankind spiritually marred and subject to vanity so that mankind would become sinful creatures. He even created Satan and the fallen angels to be mankind's tempters so that mankind would sin all the more.

You may understand it this way: since God's power is beyond the scope of our comprehension, it is inappropriate to attribute these wrongs to free will or dismiss them as mere fate. I can only say that all these are the will of God.

Yet God does not tempt anyone, nor does He allow Himself to be tempted by anyone.

The one who tempts people is that crafty ancient serpent. Though created by God, it possesses free will—but this free will, even its craftiness, originates from God.

It knows the need to obey God, even more clearly and thoroughly than we do; yet when it comes to dealing with humans, it adopts an entirely different attitude.

When a person's sins, it is because it was God's "will" for it to happen. God puts all the pieces in place so that the only outcome is for the person to make the decision to sin (even a specific sin and at a specific time). God leaves nothing up to chance or to mankind's "will". The apostate church's false belief in mankind's free will ability is not true. God directs all our steps, including when we sin.

Romans
11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.

Here is what Paul said to those who questioned him about this truth:

Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

Indeed.

You must understand that the purpose for this creation is to create new offspring for God who will be fully made in His image and who have a knowledge of good and evil. This is the work that the Father gave Christ to accomplish.

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Everything that God is doing is for this great and glorious purpose of producing His new children. In the end, God will have many new children (all mankind) who will be like Him in character and who also have a knowledge of good and evil. After the last person is saved, Christ will deliver up the Kingdom of Heaven to His Father and God will then be "all in all" (1Cor 15:22-28).

Joe

Amen.

 

[soberxp]

I think people can be influenced by the evil of this world, at some point they can become evil themselves as it is their natural inclination unfortunately. Many are tested and will be tested, God does test our faith have no doubt about it. The book of Job explains this. But evil from the start, I do not believe so but it is not impossible I guess.

Blessings.

God created humans with an inherently good nature, yet they may be prone to believing any word excessively.

Humans are influenced by evil because each of us has been affected by the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. This leads to a situation where, even though we instinctively know the difference between good and evil, we cannot consistently act or judge rightly.

We lack experience, and we do not possess the same wisdom and experience as God. Therefore, we must undergo trials throughout our lives—whether we are believers or non-believers.

Honestly, though, I can hardly imagine that anyone is evil from the very beginning.


Blessing.

 

[FaithWillDo]

You may understand it this way: since God's power is beyond the scope of our comprehension, it is inappropriate to attribute these wrongs to free will or dismiss them as mere fate. I can only say that all these are the will of God.

Yet God does not tempt anyone, nor does He allow Himself to be tempted by anyone.

The one who tempts people is that crafty ancient serpent. Though created by God, it possesses free will—but this free will, even its craftiness, originates from God.

It knows the need to obey God, even more clearly and thoroughly than we do; yet when it comes to dealing with humans, it adopts an entirely different attitude.



Romans
11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!


Indeed.


Amen.

Dear soberxp,
I appreciate your comments.

You said:
Yet God does not tempt anyone, nor does He allow Himself to be tempted by anyone.

The one who tempts people is that crafty ancient serpent. Though created by God, it possesses free will—but this free will, even its craftiness, originates from God.

Here is how Christ uses Satan to tempt mankind:

2 Sam 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

So how did the Lord "move" (tempt) David to number Israel?

He did it just as you stated - He used Satan.

1 Chron 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

I will add though that Satan does not have a free will. God the Father is the only one who is sovereign and who processes a free will ability. Everyone else's "will" is subject to God's "will". God is that powerful.

2 Chron 20:6 and he said, Jehovah, God of our fathers, art not thou God in the heavens, and rulest thou not over all the kingdoms of the nations? And in thy hand there is power and might, and none can withstand thee.

God's power and might is not just physical power and might, it is also spiritual power and might which occurs within His creatures. It is with His spiritual power and might that He directs everyone steps.

Joe

 

[Brakelite]

Amen my friend. Your last sentence is where I think the problem is for some. Faith in what HE HAS DONE. It's not that faith and works save us.. I would never word it that way as some do. Our Faith has to come first.= Faith in Jesus and what he has done for us-- that has to be separated from any "works"!! Only Jesus saves. Maybe some need to STOP there and really understand that.

Our works are a result of THAT saving faith.. As you worded is
Faith in what God has done for us, which leads to obedience.

I make that distinction once again for those who "sound" as if they are saying -- faith and works are needed for salvation which puts them on an equal footing. As if you can earn life. No no..
Works are the result- the proof- the natural reaction to saving Faith in Jesus.

Idk maybe it's just me- but when I read some people in this thread I don't see that distinction being made- could be I am mistaken.. But we need to be careful about how this is worded. It makes a world of difference.
How can you love Him as deeply as we can if you don't grasp that first? It's that love that causes our works.

Sometimes this is hard to explain... it's sort of like the chicken and the egg.. the cart before the horse type of thing.. Am I even making sense now? lol

Amen bro. Two scriptures which continued to solidify the truth.
"We love Him (and keep His commandments) because He first loved us".

Note carefully the following. This is Jesus speaking to Moses on Sinai... note what comes first before the law is presented as the standard of obedience...

“1 And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. ”
Exodus 20:1-3 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

Before God asks is to obey, He reminds us of what He has done for us. Is it not the same for us as individuals? Who came to God through obedience? No-one. God comes to us through Christ and His eternal grace and mercy, then leads us to obedience to His Commandments. "If you love Me, keep My commandments".

And you know I'm a Seventh Day Adventist right? So I'm talking about all ten. Not 9. Not 9 plus one modified. God didn't change His standard to suit our fallen condition. Nor did He change His standard to suit culture or tradition. As James said. It's all or nothing.

 

[soberxp]

Dear soberxp,
I appreciate your comments.

You said:
Yet God does not tempt anyone, nor does He allow Himself to be tempted by anyone.

The one who tempts people is that crafty ancient serpent. Though created by God, it possesses free will—but this free will, even its craftiness, originates from God.

Here is how Christ uses Satan to tempt mankind:

2 Sam 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

The Book of James 1:13
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

So how did the Lord "move" (tempt) David to number Israel?

Moved not tempted, not the same thing.

He did it just as you stated - He used Satan.

1 Chron 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

I will add though that Satan does not have a free will. God the Father is the only one who is sovereign and who processes a free will ability. Everyone else's "will" is subject to God's "will". God is that powerful.

Satan knows the need to obey God, even more clearly and thoroughly than we do; yet when it comes to dealing with humans, it adopts an entirely different attitude.It treats us as if we were living under the law of sin,It accuses us of our deeds,faith,obey.

matthew 10:16
Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

But it's important to note, God's will as you understand it here is not God's will and God's command as referred to in the Gospel.

Not everyone can correctly understand what you mean by God's will at this point.

There is no need to overinterpret free will and the lack thereof, for the scope of our will comes from God who has given it to us; we cannot transcend this scope, whether it be free will or not.

2 Chron 20:6 and he said, Jehovah, God of our fathers, art not thou God in the heavens, and rulest thou not over all the kingdoms of the nations? And in thy hand there is power and might, and none can withstand thee.

God's power and might is not just physical power and might, it is also spiritual power and might which occurs within His creatures. It is with His spiritual power and might that He directs everyone steps.

Joe

Indeed.

 

[Brakelite]

Dear Brakelite,
So you believe that all who take up the sword will die by the sword???

Understanding Christ's words the way you do makes Christ out to be a liar. Certainly not everyone who takes up a physical sword will die by a physical sword. Even if you claim that the sword represents violence, not everyone who uses violence will die by violence. There are countless examples.
Joe

You either didn't read my post, or you are distorting what I said deliberately in order to sustain your argument. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Read my post.