Orthodoxy or Heterodoxy

[M3n0r4h]

The theology of a large American denomination that calls itself “Christian” will be the topic of this thread.

1. The father god and mother god of this planet live a human type of life on another planet somewhere out there in the cosmos.

2. The lived according to all the laws and ordinances established by their gods, which included marriage.

3. After their term in a ‘mortal’ coil, they were found worthy to be exalted to godhood, where they would copy what their gods had required for exaltation; which the gods prior to them had required; with the gods before them had required; on and on ad infinitum.

4. These perfected physical beings had cosmic preexistent spiritual progeny that came from previously undifferentiated intelligences (energies) which were eternal and couldn’t be created by them.

5. The first born spirit child of that exalted couple was the savior of the planet earth, whom they call Jesus/Jehovah, who had to gain a physical body (become incarnate) in order to be exalted to godhood.

6. The second born spirit child and spirit brother to the first born and all other subsequent spirits is Lucifer.

7. The gospel plan of the first born of free will was accepted over the mandatory acceptance plan of the second born, so the second born led a rebellion and led a third of the spirit children in that rebellion.

8. Since there is no official doctrine concerning how or when the holy ghost came into being, according to unofficial account, the holy ghost was one of the spirit children who was exalted to godhood without having to gain a physical body first. The requisite body and spouse would be obtained at the end of the age.

There is much more, but it would take too much space to present it here. Question: Is this orthodox Christianity or heterodox? You decide!

 

[marks]

The theology of a large American denomination that calls itself “Christian” will be the topic of this thread.

1. The father god and mother god of this planet live a human type of life on another planet somewhere out there in the cosmos.

2. The lived according to all the laws and ordinances established by their gods, which included marriage.

3. After their term in a ‘mortal’ coil, they were found worthy to be exalted to godhood, where they would copy what their gods had required for exaltation; which the gods prior to them had required; with the gods before them had required; on and on ad infinitum.

4. These perfected physical beings had cosmic preexistent spiritual progeny that came from previously undifferentiated intelligences (energies) which were eternal and couldn’t be created by them.

5. The first born spirit child of that exalted couple was the savior of the planet earth, whom they call Jesus/Jehovah, who had to gain a physical body (become incarnate) in order to be exalted to godhood.

6. The second born spirit child and spirit brother to the first born and all other subsequent spirits is Lucifer.

7. The gospel plan of the first born of free will was accepted over the mandatory acceptance plan of the second born, so the second born led a rebellion and led a third of the spirit children in that rebellion.

8. Since there is no official doctrine concerning how or when the holy ghost came into being, according to unofficial account, the holy ghost was one of the spirit children who was exalted to godhood without having to gain a physical body first. The requisite body and spouse would be obtained at the end of the age.

There is much more, but it would take too much space to present it here. Question: Is this orthodox Christianity or heterodox? You decide!

I don't think I need to decide. Jesus created all that was created, so none of this can be true.

Much love!

 

[M3n0r4h]

I don't think I need to decide. Jesus created all that was created, so none of this can be true.

Much love!

Thanx for your reply, because I have only been on this forum for about a week or so, and I have already identified some lurkers from that denomination whose probable purpose is to lure people into investigating their denomination before revealing the above theology. Cheers.

 

[marks]

Thanx for your reply, because I have only been on this forum for about a week or so, and I have already identified some lurkers from that denomination whose probable purpose is to lure people into investigating their denomination before revealing the above theology. Cheers.

You'll find a lot of heterodoxy here, I'm afraid! And with language so very much like orthodoxy.

You gave a well laid out presentation, how did you learn about these things?

And, Welcome to the forum! Be safe!

Much love!

 

[M3n0r4h]

You'll find a lot of heterodoxy here, I'm afraid! And with language so very much like orthodoxy.

You gave a well laid out presentation, how did you learn about these things?

And, Welcome to the forum! Be safe!

Much love!

I was a convert to mormonism when I got out of the navy. I was what was termed a 'golden' convert, which meant that I was hungry to learn, and I read their additional scriptures cover to cover in short order. None of the above was presented at the beginning, but was introduce incrementally. Not even their own book of mormon supports the above theology. Most of the above concepts were based upon a non-canonical funeral eulogy called the King Follett Discourse that was given in by their founder, Joseph Smith in Nauvoo, IL a month or so before a mob murdered him in Carthage.IL. Blasphemy definitely has its consequences. Cheers.

 

[Augustin56]

Sounds like Mormonism, which is not orthodox. They have a lot of natural virtue, however, which we all could emulate.

 

[M3n0r4h]

Sounds like Mormonism, which is not orthodox. They have a lot of natural virtue, however, which we all could emulate.

It is mormonism, and yes they do display many 'virtues.' I left mormonism because of their theology, and much more similar to the above as well as what I considered to be demonic practices that were embedded into their former temple rituals. I have been married to a mormon (now inactive) for 47 years, and she remains my best friend in the world. She still displays the 'virtues' that she developed in her early years after her conversion to mormonism at age 12, and even attended BYU Provo until the passing of her father which adversely affected the cash flow that allowed her to continue there. Many other denominations that I have been affiliated with also display many of the same 'virtues' that I witnessed first hand among mormons, but since many other Christian denominations don't emphasize those virtues, it's easy to target them as being deficient. I'll leave that issue up to Jesus. Even muslims display many of the same virtues. Again, my issue was with the theology that they attempted to teach me while I was an active member, elder, and temple recommend holder, and not with the majority of the members personally..

 

[Augustin56]

It is mormonism, and yes they do display many 'virtues.' I left mormonism because of their theology, and much more similar to the above as well as what I considered to be demonic practices that were embedded into their former temple rituals. I have been married to a mormon (now inactive) for 47 years, and she remains my best friend in the world. She still displays the 'virtues' that she developed in her early years after her conversion to mormonism at age 12, and even attended BYU Provo until the passing of her father which adversely affected the cash flow that allowed her to continue there. Many other denominations that I have been affiliated with also display many of the same 'virtues' that I witnessed first hand among mormons, but since many other Christian denominations don't emphasize those virtues, it's easy to target them as being deficient. I'll leave that issue up to Jesus. Even muslims display many of the same virtues. Again, my issue was with the theology that they attempted to teach me while I was an active member, elder, and temple recommend holder, and not with the majority of the members personally..

Very interesting post! One of our sons was good friends with a Mormon, whose dad was a "bishop" in the Mormon church. My wife and the mother of that family had very interesting talks. We're Catholic. The mother finally said that it could only be one of those two faiths that were correct, Catholicism or Mormonism. They were friendly, though. Their theology is looney tunes, unfortunately.

 

[marks]

I was a convert to mormonism when I got out of the navy. I was what was termed a 'golden' convert, which meant that I was hungry to learn, and I read their additional scriptures cover to cover in short order. None of the above was presented at the beginning, but was introduce incrementally. Not even their own book of mormon supports the above theology. Most of the above concepts were based upon a non-canonical funeral eulogy called the King Follett Discourse that was given in by their founder, Joseph Smith in Nauvoo, IL a month or so before a mob murdered him in Carthage.IL. Blasphemy definitely has its consequences. Cheers.

I'm glad you made it out, and that you are able to pull back the curtain!

Much love!

 

[M3n0r4h]

Very interesting post! One of our sons was good friends with a Mormon, whose dad was a "bishop" in the Mormon church. My wife and the mother of that family had very interesting talks. We're Catholic. The mother finally said that it could only be one of those two faiths that were correct, Catholicism or Mormonism. They were friendly, though. Their theology is looney tunes, unfortunately.

Don't get offended, but I went from the RCC into mormonism. My father's parents were from Italy, and hence were very active in the RCC. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit of the RCC is the same Father, Son, and Holy Spirit that I still worship in another denomination. I realized that I could not say the same thing about the godhead of mormonism. Cheers.

 

[M3n0r4h]

I'm glad you made it out, and that you are able to pull back the curtain!

Much love!

Thanx, I have to thank God for leading me out of that darkness after a vivid and nearly audible answer to a prayer. T

 

[Jane_Doe22]

And if anyone wants to talk to an *actual* LDS Christian (nicknamed "Mormon") and get the real story, let me know. With all possible respect to the OP here: he had a fling with this half a century ago and his post here is extremely biased and inaccurate.

 

[M3n0r4h]

And if anyone wants to talk to an *actual* LDS Christian (nicknamed "Mormon") and get the real story, let me know. With all possible respect to the OP here: he had a fling with this half a century ago and his post here is extremely biased and inaccurate.

Until up until a few months ago I engaged in a fairly lively debate with mormons on CARM. You have not pointed out where I presented anything that was false. What mormons take issue with is my interpretation of the events. I have a few questions to see if I am still up to date with the theology that I was taught in the 70s. You may not want to answer, but I'll ask them anyway.

1. Does the SLC LDS sect still teach that there is a mother goddess in heaven that birthed all the spirit children that come to earth to receive bodies?
2. Does it still teach that the mormon mother and father gods once live a life similar to what humans now live on this earth, and were exalted to godhood by their gods who preexisted them?
3. Does it still teach that Jesus and Lucifer were spirit brothers in the mormon concept of preexistence?
4. Beside performing vicarious works for the deceased, do mormons still consider a temple endowment and temple marriage essential requirements for mormons to be exalted to godhood?

I'll stop with these for now. Are the above concepts, which I was taught in the 70s, still being currently taught by the SLC LDS sect?

 

[Behold]

And if anyone wants to talk to an *actual* LDS Christian (nicknamed "Mormon") and get the real story, let me know. With all possible respect to the OP here: he had a fling with this half a century ago and his post here is extremely biased and inaccurate.

Explain this one to them.. @Jane_Doe22

= and be sure to provide the NAME of "Heavenly Mother"

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches that all human beings, male and female, are beloved spirit children of heavenly parents, a Heavenly Father and a Heavenly Mother.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Until up until a few months ago I engaged in a fairly lively debate with mormons on CARM. You have not pointed out where I presented anything that was false. What mormons take issue with is my interpretation of the events. I have a few questions to see if I am still up to date with the theology that I was taught in the 70s. You may not want to answer, but I'll ask them anyway.

1. Does the SLC LDS sect still teach that there is a mother goddess in heaven that birthed all the spirit children that come to earth to receive bodies?
2. Does it still teach that the mormon mother and father gods once live a life similar to what humans now live on this earth, and were exalted to godhood by their gods who preexisted them?
3. Does it still teach that Jesus and Lucifer were spirit brothers in the mormon concept of preexistence?
4. Beside performing vicarious works for the deceased, do mormons still consider a temple endowment and temple marriage essential requirements for mormons to be exalted to godhood?

I'll stop with these for now. Are the above concepts, which I was taught in the 70s, still being currently taught by the SLC LDS sect?

I have no interest in debating you. I wish you luck in wherever your faith journey takes you.

 

[M3n0r4h]

I have no interest in debating you. I wish you luck in wherever your faith journey takes you.

I do understand your reluctance. As you wish. Cheers.

 

[M3n0r4h]

Although, this is not an official doctrine of the SLC LDS sect, this is what one of their respected leaders taught about godhood.

W. Cleon Skousen – The Man Behind Glenn Beck – Mormonism Research Ministry

www.mrm.org

...
Skousen’s politics aside, it was his theology that was especially troubling. His book The First 2,000 Years, published in 1953, included a section on God that can only be described as blasphemous.

Under the subtitle “The Source of God’s Power,” he wrote,

“Through modern revelation we learn that the universe is filled with vast numbers of intelligences, and we further learn that Elohim is God simply because all of these intelligences honor and sustain Him as such…His glory and power is something which He slowly acquired until today, ‘all things bow in humble reverence.’ But since God ‘acquired’ the honor and sustaining influence of ‘all things’ it follows as a corellary (sic) that if He should do anything to violate the confidence or ‘sense of justice’ of these intelligences, they would promptly withdraw their support, and the ‘power’ of God would disintegrate. This is what Mormon and Alma meant when they specifically stated that if God should change or act contrary to truth and justice ‘He would cease to be God.’ Our Heavenly Father can do only those things which the intelligences under Him are voluntarily willing to support Him in accomplishing” (pp.355-356).

The idea that God could “cease to be God” is not at all unique to Skousen. In fact, on page 354 he rightfully notes that the phrase comes directly from the Book of Mormon (Mormon 9:19; Alma 42:13, 25). " ...

 

[The Learner]

The theology of a large American denomination that calls itself “Christian” will be the topic of this thread.

1. The father god and mother god of this planet live a human type of life on another planet somewhere out there in the cosmos.

2. The lived according to all the laws and ordinances established by their gods, which included marriage.

3. After their term in a ‘mortal’ coil, they were found worthy to be exalted to godhood, where they would copy what their gods had required for exaltation; which the gods prior to them had required; with the gods before them had required; on and on ad infinitum.

4. These perfected physical beings had cosmic preexistent spiritual progeny that came from previously undifferentiated intelligences (energies) which were eternal and couldn’t be created by them.

5. The first born spirit child of that exalted couple was the savior of the planet earth, whom they call Jesus/Jehovah, who had to gain a physical body (become incarnate) in order to be exalted to godhood.

6. The second born spirit child and spirit brother to the first born and all other subsequent spirits is Lucifer.

7. The gospel plan of the first born of free will was accepted over the mandatory acceptance plan of the second born, so the second born led a rebellion and led a third of the spirit children in that rebellion.

8. Since there is no official doctrine concerning how or when the holy ghost came into being, according to unofficial account, the holy ghost was one of the spirit children who was exalted to godhood without having to gain a physical body first. The requisite body and spouse would be obtained at the end of the age.

There is much more, but it would take too much space to present it here. Question: Is this orthodox Christianity or heterodox? You decide!

 

[The Learner]

why not say Latter Day Saints aka Mormonism?

 

[ButterflyJones]

The theology of a large American denomination that calls itself “Christian” will be the topic of this thread.

1. The father god and mother god of this planet live a human type of life on another planet somewhere out there in the cosmos.

2. The lived according to all the laws and ordinances established by their gods, which included marriage.

3. After their term in a ‘mortal’ coil, they were found worthy to be exalted to godhood, where they would copy what their gods had required for exaltation; which the gods prior to them had required; with the gods before them had required; on and on ad infinitum.

4. These perfected physical beings had cosmic preexistent spiritual progeny that came from previously undifferentiated intelligences (energies) which were eternal and couldn’t be created by them.

5. The first born spirit child of that exalted couple was the savior of the planet earth, whom they call Jesus/Jehovah, who had to gain a physical body (become incarnate) in order to be exalted to godhood.

6. The second born spirit child and spirit brother to the first born and all other subsequent spirits is Lucifer.

7. The gospel plan of the first born of free will was accepted over the mandatory acceptance plan of the second born, so the second born led a rebellion and led a third of the spirit children in that rebellion.

8. Since there is no official doctrine concerning how or when the holy ghost came into being, according to unofficial account, the holy ghost was one of the spirit children who was exalted to godhood without having to gain a physical body first. The requisite body and spouse would be obtained at the end of the age.

There is much more, but it would take too much space to present it here. Question: Is this orthodox Christianity or heterodox? You decide!

Heterodoxy.
And fascinating. It reminds me of the ancient Sumerian myth, the Enuma Elish. Not that it is verbatim to that myth, it is merely reminiscent.

What is the source for the OP?