OSAS from the Gnostics

[nedsk]

This is one of the best and simplest questions to put to those who hold to a saved-and-lost view. Where, exactly, is the line a born-again believer can cross into a no-longer-saved state? I've never had a definitive answer from any saved-and-lost proponent. Because there is none.

As you point out, if no one actually knows where the line is, it could well be - especially in light of God's holy perfection (Matt. 5:48) - that the slightest whiff of sin in thought, word or deed is sufficient to expel a person from His family and kingdom (if the saved-and-lost/works-salvation crowd is correct). But this would mean, as you've indicated, that no one is saved.

It's a nonsensical question unless as Jesus told Peter you have to forgive others seventy times seven so we must forgive 490 times right?

 

[nedsk]

no it does not

Your stuck on one verse taken out of context.

No. James called on them who claimed to have faith but doe not have works to reconsider. Their claim

he did not contradict Jesus and paul


Every time you claim we are saved by faith plus works

we are saved because sin is forgiven.

if works are required to be saved. Well you see the picture (or do you?)

"Out of context" is protestant lingo for "Scripture that proves my drivel is drivel".

 

[nedsk]

This is stealing from Israel what was addressed ONLY to Israel:

James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

The filth of replacement theology Gentiles use so much of the time to try and steal from us Jews what was given only to us, it really needs to stop. Please read what Paul said to Gentiles about works:

Romans 11:6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Please read scripture for what it says. The confusions in your statements along this line are the resulting dichotomies that ensue when one tries to harmonize the Kingdom Gospel with the Gospel of Grace.

James also said:

James 2:21-22
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

Paul, on the other hand said:

Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

Their messages are entirely different, with Paul saying that works don't justify anyone before God, where James said that works are necessary for justification...before whom? If not God, then whom?

Both men cannot possibly be right for all dispensations. What they said was true, but not all that is written in scripture is for all other dispensations than to those within which they apply.

Trying to steal from ancient Israel what was addressed only to them is stealing, pure and simple, which makes it false doctrine when applied to time(s) and people(s) to whom it was not addressed nor apply.

BTW

Scripture is quite clear that salvation is not absolute

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Works based is not the only alternative and "works based" is a misnomer. Works alone are not sufficient and the same is true for faith. I know your head will spin 360° when you read that.

No spinning head here. What you appear to be proposing is the intermixing of the Kingdom Gospel with the Gospel of Grace, which is a failure on your part to recognize the glaring differences.

BTW

 

[Behold]

Scripture is quite clear that salvation is not absolute

Reader,

Jesus is Salvation.
He's the only One who God offered on THe Cross for your forgiveness so that God can have you, take you, and keep you.

This is why Jesus told you that "I am THE WAY.. to the Father and no person comes to the Father but (through) by Me". John 14:6

So, You can believe that, by FAITH.... and go to heaven, or..... you can stay lost inside a water baptism cult, and commandment keeping Legalism theology.., while trying to be like Christ and not go to Heaven, and go to Hell like a bullet once you die.

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Scripture is quite clear that salvation is not absolute

First of all how do you define "absolute?" What does that mean, and what proof do you have from scripture to support that as applying to us today?

BTW

 

[nedsk]

No spinning head here. What you appear to be proposing is the intermixing of the Kingdom Gospel with the Gospel of Grace, which is a failure on your part to recognize the glaring differences.

BTW

It's just what Scripture says. You are arguing with me friend.

BTW

 

[nedsk]

Reader,

Jesus is Salvation.
He's the only One who God offered on THe Cross for your forgiveness so that God can have you, take you, and keep you.

This is why Jesus told you that "I am THE WAY.. to the Father and no person comes to the Father but (through) by Me". John 14:6

So, You can believe that, by FAITH.... and go to heaven, or..... you can stay lost inside a water baptism cult, and commandment keeping Legalism theology.., while trying to be like Christ and not go to Heaven, and go to Hell like a bullet once you die.

Reader,

Yes believe by faith completed by works just as James says or you can stay lost in your non biblical belief.

 

[Behold]

It's just what Scripture says. You are arguing with me friend.

The only way to go to heaven, is to meet God at The Cross of Christ for forgiveness of your sins.
You do that, He will save you, and you are own your way.

So, that is THE GOSPEL........and that one came from PAUL..

its the "Gospel of the Grace of God"..

Accept no substitute, like....>>"water washes away your sin" and other such : Galatians 1:8

 

[nedsk]

First of all how do you define "absolute?" What does that mean, and what proof do you have from scripture to support that as applying to us today?

BTW

It's not how I define it it's how it's defined

"not qualified or diminished in any way; total."

Your claim is once saved, that salvation is not qualified or diminished in any way least of all by sin. Is this true or not true?

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Who in this group knows someone who allegedly lost his or her salvation?

How did you prove to yourself they had lost it?

Who here is going to claim he or she has lost his or her salvation in the past?

How did you prove to yourself that you had allegedly lost your salvation?

Is it based on feelings, or just outright judging others and/or yourself on a basis that has no solid, defining line of demarcation in scripture?

BTW

 

[nedsk]

The only way to go to heaven, is to meet God at The Cross of Christ for forgiveness of your sins.
You do that, He will save you, and you are own your way.

So, that is THE GOSPEL........and that one came from PAUL..

its the "Gospel of the Grace of God"..

Accept no substitute, like....>>"water washes away your sin" and other such : Galatians 1:8

All true so what? That's how you get there how do you stay there. Work out your salvation with fear and trembling that's how. Those how feed the hungry, give water to the thirsty, welcomed a stranger, clothed the naked, cared for the sick and visited prisoners were blessed by the father and inherited the Kingdom.

 

[BeforeThereWas]

It's not how I define it it's how it's defined

"not qualified or diminished in any way; total."

Your claim is once saved, that salvation is not qualified or diminished in any way least of all by sin. Is this true or not true?

Then please show to us a graph or some other pictorial, graphic representation as to where that line of alleged loss is positioned. Can you at least do that so that we understand at what you are pointing? You've said nothing at all that carries with it any measure of substance that we can clearly see.

BTW

 

[nedsk]

Who in this group knows someone who allegedly lost his or her salvation?

How did you prove to yourself they had lost it?

Who here is going to claim he or she has lost his or her salvation in the past?

How did you prove to yourself that you had allegedly lost your salvation?

Is it based on feelings, or just outright judging others and/or yourself on a basis that has no solid, defining line of demarcation in scripture?

BTW

There's no way to prove you're saved other than your word or simply your belief that you are. I'm sorry that's meaningless since God decides who is saved not you or me.

 

[Behold]

All true so what? That's how you get there how do you stay there.

You stay there, the same way you got there.....

"Jesus is Salvation".....not you trying to do it, or keep it.

See, you dont understand The Cross, and that is why you are trying to prove you can LOSE what only Christ has Accomplised that provides the Eternal Justification, that God Accepts.

You cant keep yourself saved, exactly as you can't save yourself to begin with...

 

[nedsk]

Then please show to us a graph or some other pictorial, graphic representation as to where that line of alleged loss is positioned. Can you at least do that so that we understand at what you are pointing? You've said nothing at all that carries with it any measure of substance that we can clearly see.

BTW

You asked a question and I gave you an answer. if you're confused that your problem not mine. But if salvation is absolute then it can't be finished correct? Even if I sin correct? Save me the those who are saved don't sin silliness. So if my salvation can't be diminished there is nothing to fear or tremble over.

You stay there, the same way you got there.....

"Jesus is Salvation".....not you trying to do it, or keep it.

See, you dont understand The Cross, and that is why you are trying to prove you can LOSE what only Christ has Accomplised that provides the Eternal Justification, that God Accepts.

You cant keep yourself saved, exactly as you can't save yourself to begin with...

Ok great. So you were saved simply because Jesus died on the cross. Excellent. So everyone is saved. Amen Jesus!

 

[BeforeThereWas]

All true so what? That's how you get there how do you stay there. Work out your salvation with fear and trembling that's how. Those how feed the hungry, give water to the thirsty, welcomed a stranger, clothed the naked, cared for the sick and visited prisoners were blessed by the father and inherited the Kingdom.

Restating statements into a context of your own making is less than a genuine handling of scripture or any other statement made by someone else.

Let's look at that small statement you ripped from its context to try and couch it into a context of your own invention:

Philippians 2:5-16
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

Making that one statement ripped from this context as allegedly applying to any potential for loss of salvation, that is sheer flim-flammery nonsense and a dishonest handling of the scriptures. Paul said not one word about anyone losing their salvation, but that working out ones salvation (not retention of it) is a matter whereby he may rejoice in his effective ministry of his Gospel of Grace given to him by Christ Jesus, not to Peter or to James or any of the other of the apostles in Jerusalem.

BTW

 

[nedsk]

Restating statements into a context of your own making is less than a genuine handling of scripture or any other statement made by someone else.

Let's look at that small statement you ripped from its context to try and couch it into a context of your own invention:

Philippians 2:5-16
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

Making that one statement ripped from this context as allegedly applying to any potential for loss of salvation, that is sheer flim-flammery nonsense and a dishonest handling of the scriptures. Paul said not one word about anyone losing their salvation, but that working out ones salvation (not retention of it) is a matter whereby he may rejoice in his effective ministry of his Gospel of Grace given to him by Christ Jesus, not to Peter or to James or any of the other of the apostles in Jerusalem.

BTW

I notice you entirely ignored the second portion of my post. How protestant you. The thing you people can't seem to grasp is I don't recognize you're authority to definitely state what Scripture says. I know you think you speak authoritatively on Scripture but that's just relevant to me. Sorry

 

[Eternally Grateful]

"Out of context" is protestant lingo for "Scripture that proves my drivel is drivel".

Ah so your Catholic?

That explains it

 

[nedsk]

Ah so your Catholic?

That explains it

Am I?

The fact is nothing you believe existed before the appearance of the looney little monk