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Osas

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Joyful, May 3, 2007.

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  1. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Its ok Jag the thread speaks for itself, this thread has been going on for sometime now you have told us you cant reply to other threads because you are busy with this thread yet you have done nothing here but argue and nit pick and have posted nothing to make your case and now you say you cant post your case yet because you are working on James in another thread. If you are so skilled at the word as you have not hesitated to tell me and have such a good memory as you just stated in the shout box why cant you just state your case and move on. What you cant remember why you believe something? When you have made such a big deal out of believing it. Sorry that makes no good sense to me. Sounds more like cut and run. Its really easy give me scripture that says OSAS.
     
  2. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

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    You are so mainstream. You are not commenting anything new, my friend. All you are quoting is same old lines being used by typical churches. It is so old.
    I am not hypocrite. I am not perfect and very goofy but I am not hypocrites. Do you know why I can say it so confidently? Because when I discover I am not being biblical I stop it and ask God for forgiveness and repent. I openly ask for fogiveness whomever I have wronged.
    If you are Christian, then stop it.
    Imperfection and hypocrisy are completely different, my friend.
    If you realize what you are doing is against Jesus' teaching, you ought to stop it. It seems you are just making excuses.
    Who will inter into God's kingdom is not our job to decide; it is Jesus'. He is the judge. We cannot even judge ourselves whether we will make it or not. All we do is to do our best to follow Jesus. "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, strength and mind"; this is total commitment. Jesus will decide who will be in or not.
    God and Jesus did in the Bible.
    If we are doing our best to follow Jesus by reading the Bible daily and striving to follow all of Jesus' teachings, the Holy Spirit will fill our imperfection part.
    I have seen plenty of godly christians. the world sees the difference who are doing their best to follow Jesus' teachings. Jesus wants us to be salt and light in the world. this is His command too.
    Like I said if we are doing our best, the Holy Spirit will fill our imperfection part.
    There are not going to be any hypocrites or ungodly in God's kingdom.I have to ask you too to test the Spirit, how long have you been a believer?
     
  3. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

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    (writer4hisglory;10353)
    If God hates hypocrites, Kriss, then why did He die for them?
    Writer, please read what I responded to Daniel.
     
  4. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

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    Not nit picking. Just showing what I believe to be true from the Word of God.
    If we don't have good discernment our Bible interpretation is not accurate;. they will twist around to fit their selfish desires. If we are not totally committed, Holy spirit is not with us to have good discernment. that's why it is important to test the Spirit like the Bible tells us to do.
     
  5. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

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    Writer, so far you are not showing good application of the Bible in your real life. Are you going to tell me I don't know you? You have been expressing plenty about your faith through your posts. And, yes, I know I will be paying for my words if I am lying or exaggerating.
     
  6. writer4hisglory

    writer4hisglory New Member

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    Faithful1, the debate is not about me, it is about OSAS. Please, just deal with the topic at hand. Either James or Matthew 24
     
  7. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    What's funny is that...writer is supposedly 16 years old as a Christian...He is truly playing games with us...which is not good for those who wants to be with Father and Jesus. I'm even younger than him...both physically and spiritually.Writer, It would be best to be broken. Broken unto the Lord. That's the only way you can live.Lovest ye in Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour.P.S. And I don't play around with the Word of God. I'm dead serious. Be the right, leave the left.
     
  8. writer4hisglory

    writer4hisglory New Member

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    Address the debate, Jag, not me.
     
  9. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Address the debate, Jag, not me.
    please follow your own advice and give me scripture of OSAS as you keep saying
     
  10. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    Truthfully writer, thy debates (which speakest deceitful things) aren't working at all against those who truly loves God.Romans 1:29 - Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
     
  11. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

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    writer, you are running away. I just replied to your post and what was your response? I am not debating the Bible? Why do you study the Bible? just to argue who can quote the verses more? Isn't that pharisees and scholars did in the NT and Jesus rebuked them for that?Where is your application of the Bible? You have been avoiding this very important part of servanthood; applying the bible in real life. God and Jesus is giving their commandments so we can practice it and not to debate and argue about it. The bible should be used for good witnessing not to showing off how much you can quote them.
     
  12. daniel_1012

    daniel_1012 New Member

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    1 John 2:1-4 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. ---------Reminding us that yes, my intention is to write you that you should not sin. But (and), if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father... Jesus Christ the righteous. If ANY MAN sin, Jesus is the advocate for that sin. Not for our sin only, says John, but for the sin of THE WHOLE WORLD.Now, Jesus' blood was sufficient for the sins of the entire world. That means Adolf Hitler, that means Pol Pot, that means every murderer, rapist, theif, liar, and hypocrite of all degrees. All sin, every sin... is there any sin that Christ's blood does not cover?Now, if you can name a sin that Christ's blood does not cover, then I will concede... perhaps OSAS, is not so. But first, I need a sin that is unforgivable which a Christian can commit.I'll give you a hint... Jesus cleared this debate in stating there is only ONE SIN that is unforgivable... the blaspheme of the Holy Spirit.Which sin will Christ's blood not cover? Which sin, I beg you, will unsave a man? Any takers?
     
  13. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

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    (writer4hisglory;10382)
    Once Saved Always Saved - To say that one can lose their salvation is to say that the blood of Christ is not sufficient enough to complete the work that He set out for:
    You don't lose it if you have been following Jesus faithfully until the end. so simple.
    The redemption of man for the Glory of God. It calls God a liar in several parts of Scripture, which I will present to you when I have completed the study of James and Hebrews and ready to switch to the offensive side of the debate.
    Noone is caling God a liar, you are the one who is disgracing God by saying good witnesses don't count. Jesus is telling us to be faithful until the end. It seems that your denomination don't want to lose your half-hearted members. IMHO. This theology gives false assurance to half-hearted believer, doesn't it?
    Unless one has an accurate view of salvation, how to get it, how to keep it, and how to share it, I do not believe that they can grow properly in the Faith.
    You are blaspheming God with this kind of theology.
    The views presented here have serious consequences to the salvation or sanctification of a believer.
    Your denomination will pay the consequences for such disgraceful theology, this theology is nothing but from the devil.
     
  14. *Madeline*

    *Madeline* New Member

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    God has stated that salvation is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all believers (Rom. 4:16); therefore, all who believe in Jesus are eternally secure. Once one is saved, he is always saved; no justified person can ever perish. Entry into eternal glory is so certain for all who have been justified that God can refer to it in the past tense; whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. . . . Who shall lay any thing to the charge of Gods elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? . . . We are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord (Rom. 8:30-39). The Lord Jesus said that He gives unto [His people] eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Fathers hand. I and my Father are one (John 10:28-30). Just as all who believe in Jesus Christ are infallibly saved from sins penalty and certain of eternal glory, so the Lord frees His people from their former bondage to sin, so that all the justified characteristically live for Him. God puts His laws into their mind, and writes them in their hearts (Heb. 8:10). 2 Corinthians 5:17 promises that if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. Those whom God hath saved . . . not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began are also called . . . with an holy calling (2 Tim. 1:9). Good works do not justify or help justify anyone before God, nor do they keep anyone saved; God has promised eternal life to all who simply trust His Son, and He saves them and keeps them saved simply by His grace.Love,Madeline
     
  15. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

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    (*Madeline*;10394)
    God has stated that salvation is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all believers (Rom. 4:16); therefore, all who believe in Jesus are eternally secure. Once one is saved, he is always saved; no justified person can ever perish. Entry into eternal glory is so certain for all who have been justified that God can refer to it in the past tense; whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. . . . Who shall lay any thing to the charge of Gods elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? . . . We are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord (Rom. 8:30-39). The Lord Jesus said that He gives unto [His people] eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Fathers hand. I and my Father are one (John 10:28-30). Just as all who believe in Jesus Christ are infallibly saved from sins penalty and certain of eternal glory, so the Lord frees His people from their former bondage to sin, so that all the justified characteristically live for Him. God puts His laws into their mind, and writes them in their hearts (Heb. 8:10). 2 Corinthians 5:17 promises that if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. Those whom God hath saved . . . not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began are also called . . . with an holy calling (2 Tim. 1:9). Good works do not justify or help justify anyone before God, nor do they keep anyone saved; God has promised eternal life to all who simply trust His Son, and He saves them and keeps them saved simply by His grace.Love,Madeline
    You are misusing and twisting the Word. We should interpret the bible with whole context, not the way we want it. The Bible can be misused, misinterpreted, abused and so on... Bible interpretation should glorify God and not disgace Him. Why do you cooperate with satan who does not want Jesus' followers do good witnessing.
     
  16. *Madeline*

    *Madeline* New Member

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    Hi Faithful1![​IMG] Remember, if you have a pre-committed theological view...that is, without the intent of ever changing your position because you feel that you are right and everyone who disagrees with your theology is wrong -- then you're only deceiving yourself. I hope you don't have that mentality! [​IMG] Anyways, here are several verses that back up the doctrine of Eternal Security (Jn. 3:16; 4:14; 5:24; 6:38-40, 62; 10:28; 17:9-12; Rom. 5:9; 6:2, 9, 10; 8:1; 1 Cor. 15:49; Eph. 1:13; Phil. 1:6; 2:13; Col. 3:3, 4; 2 Tim. 4:18; 1 Thess. 5:23; Heb. 7:25; 10:14; 12:2; 1 Pet. 1:4, 5, 18, 19, 23; 1 Jn. 2:19; 3:2; 5:4). I suggest you thoroughly study those passages. We read in Eph. 1:13-14, "In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession ....". Note the three words highlighted in this passage. We were sealed, with a promise which is the earnest or guarantee of resurrection. This guarantee is a promise which is given when we were sealed. This promise does not come with any conditions. Therefore, God, Who cannot lie, cannot break this promise of resurrection to all who had been sealed, i.e. all who are saved.John 10:28, "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand". The Greek translated here "never" is "ou me". The two negatives when combined lose their distinctive meanings, and form the strongest and most emphatic assertion. Had the Holy Spirit used the Greek "me" alone He would have given a conditional aspect to the statement of this verse. The definition of "me" is, "expressing conditional negation....". But the Holy spirit did not use the conditional word, He used the phrase which makes the statement that "they shall never perish" unconditionally. Phil. 1:6, "Being confident of this very thing, that He Which hath begun a good word in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ". The Greek word translated"perform" is "epiteleo". It is translated "perform" 4 times, "do" once. But it is also translated "accomplish" two times and "perfect" or "perfecting" or "made perfect" and "finish". In other words "epiteleo" carries the idea of finishing the act. Therefore, the NIV translation gives a better sense of the meaning of this verse. "being confident of this, that He Who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus". The work that was "begun" was obviously, salvation. Here we are told that that work will be completed. The term "until the day of Christ Jesus" refers to resurrection. Therefore, we are told in this verse that God will complete the work of salvation at resurrection. Note there is no condition attached, and it is not man, but God Who will complete the work. Hope this helps![​IMG] More tomorrow, I have to go to bed! Love,Madeline
     
  17. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Madeline I think you are misunderstanding what we are talking about here we are discussing a doctrine that is about a person turning away from God and denying him and still be saved without repenting this is a false doctrine. You can just say once I accept God and go and worship false Gods, murder,lie,cheat,and never repent and still be saved. once saved always saved is a false doctrine the elect can comit the unforgivable sin therefore once saved always saved is a contradiction and there are no contradictions in Gods word.we are talking the mind/hearts of men here not God. If a man be saved in his youth then in his old age pledge his allegence to Satan is he saved? No he comit blashphemy this is not God changing his mind but man changing his.Luke 12:8"I tell you, whoever acknowledges me before men, the Son of Man will also acknowledge him before the angels of God. Luke 12:9 9 But he who disowns me before men will be disowned before the angels of God. Luke 13:3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. luke 13:4 Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? luke 13:5 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish." Now I ask you if you turn away after being saved and do not repent are you still saved?Mark 13:13 All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm notice it is he who stands firm not he who was once saved.Mark 9:43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. Mark 9:45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. Mark9:47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, Notice it does not say if you sin or turn away do not worry about it Once saved always savedMark9:49Everyone will be salted with fire. Mark9:50 "Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can you make it salty again? Have salt in yourselves, and be at peace with each other."If you are Saved(salted) and you turn away(lose your saltiness)The thing is I am aware of no scripture that say's once saved always saved no matter what you doNow I am closing this thread because we have discussed this for two weeks and its time to move on.I know you have not been here and if you like we can discuss this another time but right now we needlet this go and get on with our other studies
     
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