Amen, Daniel. Amen. It would, however, as I have said to the others, and to remain consistent, be best to show your argument from the Word of God, for that is the source of truth.
Osas
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(writer4hisglory;10311)
No, I did not present this as an argument for OSAS, this was presented as an argument against OSAS. I have two more passages to address before I present my support passages for OSAS into the debate.
What makes you think hypocrites will be in God's kingdom? Before you go to another passage, please reply to our qusestions first, You have been avoiding many. You just hit and run and repeat the same over and over.I will be back (I am trying to be funny)
No, I did not present this as an argument for OSAS, this was presented as an argument against OSAS. I have two more passages to address before I present my support passages for OSAS into the debate.
What makes you think hypocrites will be in God's kingdom? Before you go to another passage, please reply to our qusestions first, You have been avoiding many. You just hit and run and repeat the same over and over.I will be back (I am trying to be funny)
BTW, I am glad you got someone in your side now. I was kind of feeling guilty attacking just one person because I understand being the otherside. Most of the time, it is the other way around for me, writer. Now I can fully be against you without feeling guilty. watchout writer
and thank you ladies for your kindness and encouragement
and thank you ladies for your kindness and encouragement(writer4hisglory)
Ad Hominem, thesuperjag - attacking the debater rather than debating. What does this have to do with addressing what was written in Matthew 24?
Writer, actually, no I was not really attacking you, sure it looks like to you that I was "attacking you" but I was using scriptures to see what you have done to us by keep on telling us that we got to believe what you want us to believe in...yet it was wrong...You want us to debate by your rules, why not just discuss the Word as a global community instead of trying to make it by your own rules. Besides debate used to be in my heart... (only for a very short time) ...but it's not anymore. I only wish to help you...but it is extremely hard for us to do that.Romans 1:29 - Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,I hope you can see your ownself, sooner or later.Lovest thou in Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour.
Ad Hominem, thesuperjag - attacking the debater rather than debating. What does this have to do with addressing what was written in Matthew 24?
Writer, actually, no I was not really attacking you, sure it looks like to you that I was "attacking you" but I was using scriptures to see what you have done to us by keep on telling us that we got to believe what you want us to believe in...yet it was wrong...You want us to debate by your rules, why not just discuss the Word as a global community instead of trying to make it by your own rules. Besides debate used to be in my heart... (only for a very short time) ...but it's not anymore. I only wish to help you...but it is extremely hard for us to do that.Romans 1:29 - Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,I hope you can see your ownself, sooner or later.Lovest thou in Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour.
(daniel_1012;10324)
The question "Once saved, always saved?" to me, as I think on it, though I never noticed it before, is a bit of an oxymoron when one understands who God is, and what His character is like. Once saved, always saved? Well yes, I suppose we are always saved. Unless one thinks God's hands are weak; unless His boat has holes; or unless God, who is sovereign in will, would throw children back who He chose to save. Unless those things are true... yes, once saved, always saved.Does God ever go back on His promises? No, He cannot. I feel I can be pretty matter-of-fact in saying that God keeps His promises. Even people who don't know God will often understand that as part one of His must-be characteristics. When I was saved... God promised me salvation inspite of my sin. I do not know what He promised you (I say this... kiddingly, He makes the same promise), but when I was saved, it was not because I was perfect, sinless, or even totally aware of how God was saving me.Now, if He gave you a promise, will He go back on that promise? I think not. Even when we are unfaithful, He remains faithful. And, Jesus said that the faith of a mustard seed will move a mountain. How much faith will He require from us to save a soul? Jesus' analogy, of course, was not a mathmatical equation that can be measured to scale to other things. Jesus was saying that it takes little to no faith, if one would just believe in what God calls them to do, then God will move a mountain even with a faith that is near nothing. Now, after the mountain is moved into the sea... If my faith, after God has moved the mountain, fails, does that faith work in reverse? Does the mountain come back out of the sea? Does the mountain go back from where it came? I think not. The mountain has been moved.I am under strong convincing that once saved... once saved, period. It is God who saves, and Our Father, I say this reverently, is no Indian giver. Neither was my salvation based on my own works; therefore, when my works run out, why should my salvation? When my works go the opposite direction, why should my salvation? A God, remember, who while we were yet sinners, died for us... and gave Himself for us... should He make such a great sacrifice that our sin, even blaintantly willful, could overpower it?
You do not have to always quote scripture when speaking to us we understand scripture well enough to understand your reasoning If we want scripture to support somthing we will ask for it. I am pleased to see you are using your mind to reason with what scripture has taught you. If this were the only thing we were talking here was the mind of God your reasoning would hold true. But we are talking the mind/hearts of men here not God. If a man be saved in his youth then in his old age pledge his allegence to Satan is he saved? Is Judas saved saved? this is not God chaning his mind but men.Luke 12:8"I tell you, whoever acknowledges me before men, the Son of Man will also acknowledge him before the angels of God. Luke 12:9 9 But he who disowns me before men will be disowned before the angels of God. Luke 13:3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. luke 13:4 Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? luke 13:5 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish." Now I ask you if you turn away after being saved and do not repent are you still saved?Mark 13:13 All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm notice it is he who stands firm not he who was once saved.Mark 9:43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. Mark 9:45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. Mark9:47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, Notice it does not say if you sin or turn away do not worry about it Once saved always savedMark9:49Everyone will be salted with fire. Mark9:50 "Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can you make it salty again? Have salt in yourselves, and be at peace with each other."If you are Saved(salted) and you turn away(lose your saltiness)The thing is I am aware of no scripture that say's once saved always saved and as you can see there are many that tend to say otherwise. So I ask how you can believe what men have said when Gods word says otherwise?
The question "Once saved, always saved?" to me, as I think on it, though I never noticed it before, is a bit of an oxymoron when one understands who God is, and what His character is like. Once saved, always saved? Well yes, I suppose we are always saved. Unless one thinks God's hands are weak; unless His boat has holes; or unless God, who is sovereign in will, would throw children back who He chose to save. Unless those things are true... yes, once saved, always saved.Does God ever go back on His promises? No, He cannot. I feel I can be pretty matter-of-fact in saying that God keeps His promises. Even people who don't know God will often understand that as part one of His must-be characteristics. When I was saved... God promised me salvation inspite of my sin. I do not know what He promised you (I say this... kiddingly, He makes the same promise), but when I was saved, it was not because I was perfect, sinless, or even totally aware of how God was saving me.Now, if He gave you a promise, will He go back on that promise? I think not. Even when we are unfaithful, He remains faithful. And, Jesus said that the faith of a mustard seed will move a mountain. How much faith will He require from us to save a soul? Jesus' analogy, of course, was not a mathmatical equation that can be measured to scale to other things. Jesus was saying that it takes little to no faith, if one would just believe in what God calls them to do, then God will move a mountain even with a faith that is near nothing. Now, after the mountain is moved into the sea... If my faith, after God has moved the mountain, fails, does that faith work in reverse? Does the mountain come back out of the sea? Does the mountain go back from where it came? I think not. The mountain has been moved.I am under strong convincing that once saved... once saved, period. It is God who saves, and Our Father, I say this reverently, is no Indian giver. Neither was my salvation based on my own works; therefore, when my works run out, why should my salvation? When my works go the opposite direction, why should my salvation? A God, remember, who while we were yet sinners, died for us... and gave Himself for us... should He make such a great sacrifice that our sin, even blaintantly willful, could overpower it?
You do not have to always quote scripture when speaking to us we understand scripture well enough to understand your reasoning If we want scripture to support somthing we will ask for it. I am pleased to see you are using your mind to reason with what scripture has taught you. If this were the only thing we were talking here was the mind of God your reasoning would hold true. But we are talking the mind/hearts of men here not God. If a man be saved in his youth then in his old age pledge his allegence to Satan is he saved? Is Judas saved saved? this is not God chaning his mind but men.Luke 12:8"I tell you, whoever acknowledges me before men, the Son of Man will also acknowledge him before the angels of God. Luke 12:9 9 But he who disowns me before men will be disowned before the angels of God. Luke 13:3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. luke 13:4 Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? luke 13:5 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish." Now I ask you if you turn away after being saved and do not repent are you still saved?Mark 13:13 All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm notice it is he who stands firm not he who was once saved.Mark 9:43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. Mark 9:45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. Mark9:47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, Notice it does not say if you sin or turn away do not worry about it Once saved always savedMark9:49Everyone will be salted with fire. Mark9:50 "Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can you make it salty again? Have salt in yourselves, and be at peace with each other."If you are Saved(salted) and you turn away(lose your saltiness)The thing is I am aware of no scripture that say's once saved always saved and as you can see there are many that tend to say otherwise. So I ask how you can believe what men have said when Gods word says otherwise?
(Faithful1;10331)
What makes you think hypocrites will be in God's kingdom? Before you go to another passage, please reply to our qusestions first, You have been avoiding many. You just hit and run and repeat the same over and over.I will be back (I am trying to be funny)
My question must then be, what makes you think hypocrites WON'T be in heaven? From what I observe in the Christian life, in human life, and the struggles therein... is that heaven must be full of them, because I have yet to meet a Christian who was not a hypocrite. It is by grace, through faith we have been saved. Not by works, lest ANY MAN boast.What is a hypocrite? Are you a hypocrite, ever? Am I? I admit, I am. To be imperfect and at the same time hold the belief that Christ's way is Truth, is to enevitibly be a hypocrtie... for I am imperfect, and His Truth I subscribe to is perfect... therefore, my subscription to Christ and my imperfect humanity are in constant hypocrisy.Do we ever say what we don't mean, dwell on bad thoughts we ought not for longer than would be proper for a Christian (however long that may be). If you say, "Well yes, on occasion... everyone makes mistakes." Then I must ask, what degree of hypocrite are you that will make it into heaven while all other will not? Who sets that standard? Do you ever do what you say you don't do? Is your prayer life perfect, is your walk perfect, is your mind in perfect conformity to Christ as Paul tells us to conform it?Do we ever leave a bad wittness ANYWHERE, with ANYONE, EVER? Or, like Jesus asked us to be, have we been perfect just as our Father in heaven is perfect? The reason I know hypocrites will be in heaven, is because Jesus' blood covers all sins, period.When I have more time, I will reference the Bible more often, or if there is some scripture particular that you want to talk about.-Dan
What makes you think hypocrites will be in God's kingdom? Before you go to another passage, please reply to our qusestions first, You have been avoiding many. You just hit and run and repeat the same over and over.I will be back (I am trying to be funny)
My question must then be, what makes you think hypocrites WON'T be in heaven? From what I observe in the Christian life, in human life, and the struggles therein... is that heaven must be full of them, because I have yet to meet a Christian who was not a hypocrite. It is by grace, through faith we have been saved. Not by works, lest ANY MAN boast.What is a hypocrite? Are you a hypocrite, ever? Am I? I admit, I am. To be imperfect and at the same time hold the belief that Christ's way is Truth, is to enevitibly be a hypocrtie... for I am imperfect, and His Truth I subscribe to is perfect... therefore, my subscription to Christ and my imperfect humanity are in constant hypocrisy.Do we ever say what we don't mean, dwell on bad thoughts we ought not for longer than would be proper for a Christian (however long that may be). If you say, "Well yes, on occasion... everyone makes mistakes." Then I must ask, what degree of hypocrite are you that will make it into heaven while all other will not? Who sets that standard? Do you ever do what you say you don't do? Is your prayer life perfect, is your walk perfect, is your mind in perfect conformity to Christ as Paul tells us to conform it?Do we ever leave a bad wittness ANYWHERE, with ANYONE, EVER? Or, like Jesus asked us to be, have we been perfect just as our Father in heaven is perfect? The reason I know hypocrites will be in heaven, is because Jesus' blood covers all sins, period.When I have more time, I will reference the Bible more often, or if there is some scripture particular that you want to talk about.-Dan
I will have to agree with both of you here yes God hates hypocrites, are we all guility of it at times? probably. However if you are aware of being a hypocrite you must repent and it is forgiven If you do not repent for it you will be judged on it. Are there hypocrites in heaven? No scripture tells us one way or the other. So we are left to only know that God hates it.But in this OSAS thread let us not digress into talking single sins but rather if you are saved and turn away are you still saved?
(kriss;10344)
I will have to agree with both of you here yes God hates hypocrites, are we all guility of it at times? probably. However if you are aware of being a hypocrite you must repent and it is forgiven If you do not repent for it you will be judged on it. Are there hypocrites in heaven? No scripture tells us one way or the other. So we are left to only know that God hates it.But in this OSAS thread let us not digress into talking single sins but rather if you are saved and turn away are you still saved?
So, if someone isn't aware they are a hypocrite, they are still okay? Only those who are aware they are hypocrites will be judged for it?
I will have to agree with both of you here yes God hates hypocrites, are we all guility of it at times? probably. However if you are aware of being a hypocrite you must repent and it is forgiven If you do not repent for it you will be judged on it. Are there hypocrites in heaven? No scripture tells us one way or the other. So we are left to only know that God hates it.But in this OSAS thread let us not digress into talking single sins but rather if you are saved and turn away are you still saved?
So, if someone isn't aware they are a hypocrite, they are still okay? Only those who are aware they are hypocrites will be judged for it?
We humans are imperfect, and we will never be perfect cause we all sinned and come short of glory of God. (Romans 3:23) Kriss is right that there will be no hypocrits in Heaven...as God will not allow sin into Heaven. Sin is death, and death = Hell. (Romans 6:23a) There is not even 1% chance that the hypocrisy will enter to Heaven.P.S. Being imperfect and being a hypocrit are two different things.Lovest ye in Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour.
(daniel_1012;10345)
So, if someone isn't aware they are a hypocrite, they are still okay? Only those who are aware they are hypocrites will be judged for it?
I said exactley the oppisite I said if you know you were being hypicritacal and you are a Christain you should repent. If you are not aware God hates hypocrites or dont you dont care then you will be judged
So, if someone isn't aware they are a hypocrite, they are still okay? Only those who are aware they are hypocrites will be judged for it?
I said exactley the oppisite I said if you know you were being hypicritacal and you are a Christain you should repent. If you are not aware God hates hypocrites or dont you dont care then you will be judged
Let me correct that for Kriss. God doesn't hate hypocrits. He hates hypocrisy.Lovest thou in Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour.
Thank you Jag Im sure writer understood exactly what was meant but sense he has no scripture to support his claim OSAS he choose to nit pick.
I do have scripture to support the OSAS, but it is not yet my turn to present them. I am working right now with what Swampfox gave me.
To be honest, I don't nit pick scriptures. I'll just let the Word do it's work.Lovest thou in Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour.P.S. You are welcome Kriss.
Sometimes what we may think about what we feel about, may not be truth. That's why we got Jesus (Yahshua) vs Lucifer. Between the two...free will.Let me ask you a question writer, do you know what a hypocrits means to you.Lovest ye in Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour.
Would you like to say it on here and I'll say mine answer as well.Lovest ye in Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour.
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