Our Triune God

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marks

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Why create two equal Gods?!
Not me . . .

Hebrews 1:5-8 KJV
5) For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6) And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7) And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8) But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Scripture addresses Jesus as God. This isn't just coming from me.

Much love!
 

jaybird

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It lets us know that the Creator God is He Whom stepped down into His Own creation to bring to pass the relationship with us that He intends.

in other words it proves that the Most High, the creator of the heavens and the earth, whose majesty can not be contained in the world, can make Himself a man if He chooses to.
i am pretty sure the Jews as well as me, have always believed the Most High can do what ever He wants. its not like before the trinity there were people everywhere saying "no way He can do that, but everything else is in His wheelhouse".

It doesn't remove the Father/Son relationship, it establishes it.

it does actually, if Jesus and the Father are one and the same, or both are the Most High, or however else you want to word it, there are no longer two separate beings. a father and son are not the same. not in this world and the example and teachings of Jesus are not going to be contrary to that, He teaches in our understanding, not in some twilight zone understanding that makes no sense to anyone outside that twilight zone world.
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jaybird

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Not me . . .

Hebrews 1:5-8 KJV
5) For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6) And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7) And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8) But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Scripture addresses Jesus as God. This isn't just coming from me.

Much love!
elohim does not mean Most High. Satan is called god, so are angels, etc. god denotes IMO state of being, Jesus was of the heavens, not of this world.
also the Hebrew passage is quoting Psalm 45 which is about one of the Jewish Kings. if the Hebrew passage means that Jesus is the Most High then it wouold also mean the Hebrew king was also the Most High.
 
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APAK

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Not me . . .

Hebrews 1:5-8 KJV
5) For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6) And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7) And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8) But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Scripture addresses Jesus as God. This isn't just coming from me.

Much love!
In denial I guess....
 
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APAK

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No, I'm not talking modalism. Jesus did not pray to Himself. He prayed to His Father.

I'm saying that, as the passages in the OP show, there is One God. Also, as passages which I've quoted show, there is a Father Who is God. There is a Son Who is God. There is a Holy Spirit, Who is God.

The Bible ascribes various attributes of God to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit, as these passages also show.

Much love!
Again...you have to admit you could not answer my reply based on you post #9...It's a pity marks
 
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marks

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In denial I guess....
You don't wish to respond to this passage from Scripture?

How am I in denial when I'm simply believing the plain meaning of what I'm reading in the Bible? God, Who inspired the Bible, addresses the Son, "O God". Not me. The Bible. God Himself. I would say the Holy Spirit. Holy men of God wrote as moved by the Holy Spirit.

And in this instance to address the Son, "O God." And in this, I am in denial? Because I say, OK, the Son is God. And then that's not the only place either. Many places.

Much love!
 

APAK

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You don't wish to respond to this passage from Scripture?

How am I in denial when I'm simply believing the plain meaning of what I'm reading in the Bible? God, Who inspired the Bible, addresses the Son, "O God". Not me. The Bible. God Himself. I would say the Holy Spirit. Holy men of God wrote as moved by the Holy Spirit.

And in this instance to address the Son, "O God." And in this, I am in denial? Because I say, OK, the Son is God. And then that's not the only place either. Many places.

Much love!
Now you are being redundant and my point made earlier is now really lost. So you believe that Christ prayed to the Father and the Father is God and Christ is also the same God...mmmm...interesting. Until later then....APAK
 
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jaybird

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Now you are being redundant and my point made earlier is now really lost. So you believe that Christ prayed to the Father and the Father is God and Christ is also the same God...mmmm...interesting. Until later then....APAK
no i think its more like Jesus is the Most High, the Father is the Most High, therefore the Most High prayed to the Most High. which of course does not make any sense so in order to solve that dilemma you just create another doctrine, hypostatic union. now Jesus is split in two and therefore the human Jesus prays to the Most High, problem solved . . . .but now we have another problem, Jesus, according to the trinity is 100% man and Most High meaning he is always the Most High and therefore we are back to the Most High praying to the Most High. everytime they create a new doctrine to fix the last doctrine it just causes another problem. so many problems.
 
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APAK

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no i think its more like Jesus is the Most High, the Father is the Most High, therefore the Most High prayed to the Most High. which of course does not make any sense so in order to solve that dilemma you just create another doctrine, hypostatic union. now Jesus is split in two and therefore the human Jesus prays to the Most High, problem solved . . . .but now we have another problem, Jesus, according to the trinity is 100% man and Most High meaning he is always the Most High and therefore we are back to the Most High praying to the Most High. everytime they create a new doctrine to fix the last doctrine it just causes another problem. so many problems.
Well that's another way of getting to the point that trinitarians cannot overcome scripture passage as this one cited, as one example. And there are many more. The 'Most High' is only one no matter how you dice and slice it. No matter what smoke screens and devices they invent, like incarnation and hypostatic union etc...'their problem' still faces them head on....there is no escape from the truth.
 

marks

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Now you are being redundant and my point made earlier is now really lost. So you believe that Christ prayed to the Father and the Father is God and Christ is also the same God...mmmm...interesting. Until later then....APAK
I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be difficult. I realize what you are saying. If Jesus is God, and the Father is God, and there is One God, then why bother the Son praying to the Father? It can seem ridiculous.

But then, have you stopped to think about why we pray to God? He knows words before we speak them. His Spirit lives in us, we receive life from Him. Why do we tell Him anything? He knows everything, we understand extremely little, I think. Yet we pray, and He tells us to continue to pray.

I understand that there may be intellectual questions involving how to make sense of these things. Yet even so, I read, clearly written, "to the Son He says, Your throne, O God . . ."

So how should I read that?

Should I embrace what some consider ridiculous? But if I don't, won't that mean ignoring what is clearly written in God's Word? And if I'm going to do that, why am I bothering at all?

Hopefully this will show my position a little better.

Much love!
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Not my words. God's word.

Seldom to people object to calling the Father, God. If you do, that will surprise me, just the same, if you do, say so, I'll go to those passages. I'll start with Jesus, and a very clear passage in the Bible.

Hebrews 1:5-8 KJV
5) For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6) And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7) And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8) But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Here, the Son of God is address "O God", plainly, in Scripture. The Son of God is in fact God.

Much love!

Believers in the Trinity prefer the Authorized Version, or King James Version, which renders Hebrews 1:8 this way: “But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever.” Thus, they feel that Jesus is shown to be the same as Almighty God. Why is this not correct?

First, note the context. In many translations, either in the main text or in the margin, Hebrews 1:9 reads, “God, your God, anointed you.” This makes it clear that the one addressed in verse eight is not God, but one who worships God and is anointed by him.

Secondly, it should be noted that Hebrews 1:8, 9 is a quotation from Psalm 45:6, 7, which originally was addressed to a human king of Israel. Surely the writer of this psalm did not think that this human king was Almighty God and neither did the writer of Hebrews think that Jesus was Almighty God. Commenting on this, scholar B. F. Westcott said: “It is scarcely possible that אלוהים [‘Elo·himʹ, “God”] in the original can be addressed to the king. . . . Thus on the whole it seems best to adopt in the first clause the rendering: God is Thy throne (or, Thy throne is God), that is ‘Thy kingdom is founded upon God.’”
 
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marks

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Here are some other translations . . .

upload_2021-4-15_8-58-35.png

Hebrews 1:8 LITV
8) but as to the Son, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, A scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Your kingdom;

Hebrews 1:8 YLT
8) and unto the Son: 'Thy throne, O God, is to the age of the age; a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy reign;

Hebrews 1:8 EMTV

8) But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom.

Hebrews 1:8 NASB
8 But regarding the Son He says,

“Your throne, God, is forever and ever,
And the scepter of righteousness is the scepter of His kingdom.

Much love!
 

jaybird

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Believers in the Trinity prefer the Authorized Version, or King James Version, which renders Hebrews 1:8 this way: “But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever.” Thus, they feel that Jesus is shown to be the same as Almighty God. Why is this not correct?

First, note the context. In many translations, either in the main text or in the margin, Hebrews 1:9 reads, “God, your God, anointed you.” This makes it clear that the one addressed in verse eight is not God, but one who worships God and is anointed by him.

Secondly, it should be noted that Hebrews 1:8, 9 is a quotation from Psalm 45:6, 7, which originally was addressed to a human king of Israel. Surely the writer of this psalm did not think that this human king was Almighty God and neither did the writer of Hebrews think that Jesus was Almighty God. Commenting on this, scholar B. F. Westcott said: “It is scarcely possible that אלוהים [‘Elo·himʹ, “God”] in the original can be addressed to the king. . . . Thus on the whole it seems best to adopt in the first clause the rendering: God is Thy throne (or, Thy throne is God), that is ‘Thy kingdom is founded upon God.’”
Good job. I think I also mentioned this several pages back in the thread. And if the one in question is the Most High then it also creates another problem as it you have to explain two of them
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Good job. I think I also mentioned this several pages back in the thread. And if the one in question is the Most High then it also creates another problem as it you have to explain two of them

I don't think myself to have any problems with what I said. It's goes along with scriptures. The scriptures don't call Jesus God.