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Featured Our Triune God

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by marks, Apr 5, 2021.

  1. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Genesis 1:1 “In the beginning, Elohim created. . .”

    The basic Hebrew word for God is EL, and this is a singular form. Hebrew has two plural suffixes, for dual and plural (3 or more). Elohim is the plural form for “God”, which is a very strange way to speak of Him.

    In Deuteronomy 6:4 we read “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD.”

    In Hebrew, this is “YHWH Elohim, YHWH echad” – echad means, at its root, to be unified. It’s first usage in the Bible is Genesis 1:4 “and there was evening, and there was morning, one day” – a day made of two parts that were unified. Echad is used of one object or person, but is also used of compound unities, such as the first day. Echad is used of the married couple “the two shall become one (echad) flesh”

    “YHWH Elohim (Plural God) YHWH unified” This leads us to the doctrine called The Trinity, or Triune God. This is what we find as we study the Bible. God identifies Himself as YHWH, but also is called the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Each of these are separate and distinct persons, each are God, and yet we know the “LORD is One.”

    Perhaps the clearest picture of our Triune God is at the baptism of Jesus.

    Matthew 3:16 “And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”

    This was not the same Person. There was One speaking in heaven, One descending from heaven to earth, and One standing upon the earth.

    The Father said, "This is My Son, in Whom I am well pleased." The Father recognized that the Son was Someone other than Himself, rather, His Son.

    Some other verses that speak of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit:

    2 Samuel 23:2 The Spirit of the LORD spake by me, and his word was in my tongue.

    Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel (God with us).

    Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

    Matthew 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

    Matthew 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

    Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

    John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

    The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit

    Each are called God:

    Jude 1:1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father

    John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    Acts 5:3-4 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.


    Each acts in the same capacities as God:

    Creating:

    Malachi 2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us?

    Colossians 1:16 (speaking of Jesus) For by him were all things created,

    Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.

    Psalm 148:5 Let them praise the name of the LORD: for he commanded, and they were created.


    John 1:3 (of Jesus) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

    Gives to us eternal life:

    Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

    Galatians 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.


    Raised Jesus from the dead:

    1 Corinthians 6:14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.

    John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

    1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but made alive by the Spirit:


    Everywhere at once (omnipresent):

    Jereriah 23:24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.

    Ephesians 1:23 (speaking of Jesus) Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

    Psalm 139:7-8 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.


    Saves us:

    2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

    Titus 3:4-6 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

    1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.


    So we find in the scripture that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are each individuals, each are God, and that there is only One God. There are many ways people use to try to describe or understand this doctrine (teaching) of the Trinity, all fall short.

    Much love!
     
  2. jaybird

    jaybird Well-Known Member

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    hard to believe that great men of G-D like Moses, Elijah and Enoch didnt get this.
     
  3. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    I don't remember any of these making such statements, can you point me to some?

    Much love!
     
  4. jaybird

    jaybird Well-Known Member

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    thats the thing, they didnt make any statements on the trinity. why is that?
    the trinity wasnt "revealed" until hundreds of years after Jesus. which means those great men of the Most High must have not been that great.
     
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  5. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    An argument from silence has by definition no support.

    At any rate, all the places I've quoted were from the Scriptures, and not hundreds of years later. I have no reason to think that the Apostles didn't know Jesus is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God, and that the Father is God, and that there is One God. These passages all reflect this this truth.

    "Trinity" is our word, of course. But that they didn't use our way of saying it in no wise means they didn't believe it. And their words reflect that they did.

    Much love!
     
  6. jaybird

    jaybird Well-Known Member

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    I don't think I would believe something that is absent from the scripture.
    If these great men of the Most High didn't teach it, I would want to know why rather think of a goofy rhetoric term so I could justify ignoring such a valid point
     
  7. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    I'm wondering which you don't find in Scripture. Statements that Jesus is God? The Holy Spirit is God? The Father is God? That there is one God?

    These are all shown in the OP.

    Much love!
     
  8. jaybird

    jaybird Well-Known Member

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    none of those passages plainly teach a trinity. your interpreting them as a trinity. someone else could just as easily interpret them different. a plain clear teaching is the Lord commanding not to steal, not to commit murder. if plainly taught there would be no need for the doctrine.

    what i am asking is if you think all those p[assages are the trinity, why did not one Jew ever understand it that way? those great mean i told you about, Elijah, Moses, Enoch etc, they were the ones teaching, were they bad teachers? and we know the Shema is not talking about the trinity because Jesus and the scribe discuss it in Mark 12. they both agree He, the Most High is one, the scribe was not a trinitarian. that passage is actually a pretty big red flag against the trinity.
     
  9. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Really, "trinity" is just a word some people came up with to describe what they saw in the Bible, specifically, that there is only One God, that there is One to Whom Jesus prayed who is God, Whom Jesus called Father, that Jesus Himself is God, and that the Holy Spirit is also God.

    Much love!
     
  10. APAK

    APAK Well-Known Member

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    Don't you think that what you wrote "....that there is One to Whom Jesus prayed who is God, Whom Jesus called Father, that Jesus Himself is God,...." is nonsense?

    To the casual observer, your words make the Son and the Father the same God. And that is ridiculous. Yahshua the Son of the (one) living God prayed to the Father; who is the only ONE living God. Why cannot you see this per scripture. Why make the Son who prayed to the Father, equal to the Father? Why create two equal Gods?! There is only ONE God who is the Father and only ONE Son who is NOT God per scripture.

    Why keep on deceiving yourself. You do understand what you are writing in insane. It really is chaotic. The apostles realized after Peter's statement that Yahshua was the SON of the living God, as he was NOT God. Why cannot you read that in scripture without adding to it?

    Bless you,

    APAK
     
  11. jaybird

    jaybird Well-Known Member

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    the term you use, trinity, triune, etc, really doesnt matter, its the concept in itself. thats what i am talking about, the thing that no one saw until all those years after Jesus.
     
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  12. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    As you've pointed out, they weren't trinitarian in the least.

    For the most part, they completely rejected any notion that Jesus is God. Some did recognize that Jesus is God. Paul certainly did. And Thomas, who made a clear statement of faith.

    It seems to me that Hebrews makes the plainest statement in the Bible that Jesus is God, "To the Son He says, 'Your throne, O God'."

    In Mark:

    Mark 12:28-34 KJV
    28) And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
    29) And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
    30) And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
    31) And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
    32) And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
    33) And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
    34) And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.

    Jesus quoted the commandment, and the scribe agreed with Jesus that this was the first of all. He agreed with Jesus saying, There is one God, and none other. That's exactly what I've been saying that the Bible teaches us.

    The Bible also teaches us that there is a Father Who is God, there is a Son Who is God, and there is a Holy Spirit Who is God.

    Much love!
     
  13. jaybird

    jaybird Well-Known Member

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    the trinity kinda removes the whole Father Son relationship. one of the many problems.
    always lots of problems, but i have never heard trins explain the benefits of accepting this, how does it improve the believer? all they ever talk about are the explanations and what they think are proof text.
     
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  14. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Not my words. God's word.

    Seldom to people object to calling the Father, God. If you do, that will surprise me, just the same, if you do, say so, I'll go to those passages. I'll start with Jesus, and a very clear passage in the Bible.

    Hebrews 1:5-8 KJV
    5) For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
    6) And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
    7) And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
    8) But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

    Here, the Son of God is address "O God", plainly, in Scripture. The Son of God is in fact God.

    Much love!
     
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  15. APAK

    APAK Well-Known Member

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    It seems it's typical of you marks as you have once again avoided my reply to you completely and misrepresented me on this topic previously. Please be honest and try answering my response totally and directly. I NEVER said the Father is NOT God. He is and the ONLY one. You on the other hand think that the Son is the same ONE GOD as the Father and the Son by deduction prayed to himself (sound more like a form of modalism). Address this if you will as the basis of my original response to you, based on YOUR OWN WORDS in post #9.
     
  16. jaybird

    jaybird Well-Known Member

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    verse 32 is the key, IMO the kjv does a bad job on this one. the scribe does not say "there is one G-D" the scribe says "He is one"

    Mark 12:32 Interlinear: And the scribe said to him, 'Well, Teacher, in truth thou hast spoken that there is one God, and there is none other but He;
    thats a link to the greek text.
    it may be splitting hairs a bit as either statement you choose, when a Jew makes that statement, they do not mean a trinity. when a Jew says "He is one" that has never meant a trinity. Jesus agrees with the way Jews understand it.
     
  17. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    It lets us know that the Creator God is He Whom stepped down into His Own creation to bring to pass the relationship with us that He intends.

    It doesn't remove the Father/Son relationship, it establishes it.

    I the LORD change not, He said through the prophet Malachi. Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today, forever . . .

    Here's something I find very significant.

    The Father did not "become" Fatherly. This is Who He is, our Heavenly Father, and He has Always been the Father, has always loved with Fatherly love. And in Christ we are brought into this relationship, children of the Eternal Father.

    Much love!
     
  18. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    I'm just trying to cover the bases.

    I said that if you didn't think the Father were God, that would surprise me. You don't think that way, and I'm not surprised. There no need to see anything more than that.

    And yes, let us do all be honest with each other!

    Much love!
     
  19. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    No, I'm not talking modalism. Jesus did not pray to Himself. He prayed to His Father.

    I'm saying that, as the passages in the OP show, there is One God. Also, as passages which I've quoted show, there is a Father Who is God. There is a Son Who is God. There is a Holy Spirit, Who is God.

    The Bible ascribes various attributes of God to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit, as these passages also show.

    Much love!
     
  20. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    To revisit this . . . let's forego reaching any conclusions on the matter, let me ask you, are there any passages I've quoted in the OP which you think do not support the statements I've made of them?

    marks said:
    Gives to us eternal life:

    Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

    Galatians 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

    For instance, here?

    Much love!
     
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