Outer Darkness: a possible destiny for the saved

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bdavidc

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OK so there is no video for the OP. But there is an amazing amount of denial of plain scripture regarding the eternal destiny of being sent away into eternal darkness for those who are saved. As we know, there are 4 eternal destinies described repeatedly. Of course the prevailing religious opinion is that the saved will play harps on clouds and other such sunday school notions.
You are taking passages about the judgment of the ungodly and twisting them into a doctrine that Scripture never teaches! Your claim that genuinely saved people can spend eternity in outer darkness is false teaching.

Jude 12-13 describes corrupt, ungodly men as “trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots” and “wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.” Read the context! Jude is condemning ungodly deceivers, not describing a special eternal destination for redeemed children of God.

You claim that “twice dead” means these people were regenerated and then lost their spiritual life. WHERE DOES JUDE SAY THAT? He doesn't! You have inserted your own interpretation into the passage and are presenting it as God's Word.

You also claim Scripture teaches four eternal destinies. Then show us where the Bible explicitly teaches four eternal destinies, including one where people are supposedly saved but condemned to outer darkness forever. You cannot establish a doctrine simply by inventing categories and attaching Bible verses to them.

Jesus said in John 5:24, “He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

And in John 10:28, Jesus declared, “And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”

Explain how someone who has everlasting life, shall not come into condemnation, and shall never perish can also be condemned to eternal outer darkness! You are contradicting the very promises of Jesus Christ.


Furthermore, Jesus Himself explains the judgment of outer darkness in Matthew 25:30, and immediately afterward describes the final separation between the righteous and the wicked. Matthew 25:46 declares, “And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.”

Outer darkness is not presented as some lesser eternal reward for saved people. It is a warning of judgment, not a third category between salvation and condemnation.


Yes, Scripture warns believers against deception, sin, and falling away. Those warnings must be taken seriously. But you have no authority to use those warnings to invent an eternal destiny that Scripture does not establish.

Second Timothy 2:15 commands us to “rightly dividing the word of truth.” That means allowing Scripture to speak in its proper context, not forcing passages to support a doctrine you have already decided to promote.

Episkopos, stop presenting your interpretations as though they were explicitly written in Scripture. Your doctrine of saved people spending eternity in outer darkness is not established by Jude, Matthew, or any passage you have presented.

If you claim God has revealed four eternal destinies, then prove all four from Scripture without adding your own explanations to make the verses say what they do not say.

God's Word is the authority.
Your interpretations are not.

Outer darkness is not the eternal destination of saved people. It is a place of judgment for those who are rejected by Christ! Jesus said in Matthew 25:30, “And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

False teachers like you who deceive others and refuse to repent are among those facing God's judgment!
Second Peter 2:1 warns of false teachers who bring upon themselves “swift destruction,” and verse 17 declares that “the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.”

@Episkopos, your teaching places you under that serious warning.
You are twisting Scripture to invent an eternal destination for saved people that God never established. Unless you repent of false teaching, you have every reason to fear the judgment you are describing.

Jesus said His sheep “shall never perish” (John 10:28). Stop contradicting Him!
 

bdavidc

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After reading this thread, the amount of Scripture being twisted to defend man-made doctrines is alarming!

@Episkopos, your claim that saved people can spend eternity in outer darkness is false teaching. Jude never says "twice dead" means someone was regenerated and then lost salvation. You invented that explanation and are presenting it as God's truth.

@ScottA, Paul said "I myself" in 1 Corinthians 9:27 because he was talking about himself! Stop rewriting Scripture to fit your interpretations.

And to those claiming that being called a servant in Matthew 25 proves someone was saved, Jesus warned that many would call Him Lord, yet He would declare, "I never knew you" (Matthew 7:23).

Jesus said in John 10:28, "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish." In John 5:24, He said believers have everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation.

HOW DOES SOMEONE WHO SHALL NEVER PERISH END UP CONDEMNED TO ETERNAL OUTER DARKNESS?

Yes, Scripture warns against falling away, unbelief, and continuing in sin. Those warnings are real. But they do not give anyone permission to invent a fourth eternal destiny!

Second Peter 2:1 warns that false teachers bring in "damnable heresies." Jude 4 warns about ungodly men who pervert the grace of God.

Stop adding your interpretations to God's Word and calling them divine truth!

If you claim Scripture teaches four eternal destinies, SHOW THE SCRIPTURE. If you cannot establish it from God's Word in context, stop teaching it as fact.

"Let no man deceive you with vain words." (Ephesians 5:6)

God's Word judges your doctrine. Your doctrine does not judge God's Word!
 

Episkopos

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Many will name and claim to be saved by their own faith...or rather, their own beliefs, that take from God's provision by entering into God's house by some other way than through the front gate. One must enter in through the door which is Christ with HIS APPROVAL. We are not the ones who can claim anything from God. Jesus is coming back as a thief in the night to TAKE BACK what was stolen from Him.

And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully. 2 Tim 2:5
 
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ScottA

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By your interpretation John himself is not forgivin.
John includes himself with those who need forgiveness of sins.
READ THE ENTIRE LETTER OF JOHN!!!!
The  us in 1John 1:8-10.
Is the us whom John is speaking to, which John could not make any plainer have eternal life

1John 1:1-2,
- that which was from the beginning which we(John includes himself) have heard which  we have seen with our(John includes himself) eyes, which  we have looked upon and  our hands have handled of the Word of life

- for the life was manifested and  we have seen it and bear witness, and show unto you that
eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested unto us(the ones who have eternal life)

Please read the entire book of 1John chapter 1.
Now 1John 1:1-10,
- but if we(John and those who have eternal life) walk in the light as He is in the ligh we have fellowship one with another(the saved)
and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us(John and born again christians)
from all sin

- If we(John includes himself with the saved christians)
SAY THAT WE(John and the born again) HAVE NO SIN WE(John includes himself) DECEIVE OURSELVES(John includes himself) AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN US(John includes himself

John plainly says about himself, that if born again christians claim to be sinless they are deceived and they are not believing the truth.

That would include you denying John sins, JUST AS HE SAYS HE DOES.
John was preach/teaching and proclaiming what is true, saying "we" and "us" because he is speaking at a time when many were saved, but also to many who were not yet saved--which is also true for anyone reading the words even today. Which then is confirmed by him also saying "if" (these things are true). If, if, if. Which does not make "we" or "us" categorically all saved or all not, but leaves that open to "if" it is applicable to anyone person.

Therefore, it is wrong to assume John is saying everyone listening (including himself) is one way or the other. Because, he was simply stating what was and is true, "if."
 

Episkopos

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But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” Matt 8:12
 
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Titus

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John was preach/teaching and proclaiming what is true, saying "we" and "us" because he is speaking at a time when many were saved, but also to many who were not yet saved--
John who was saved when he wrote 123John, includes himself as a sinner who needs forgivenes
thus the reason God provides an advocate for John and his born again brethren.
1John 1:8-10,
Please read the entire book of 1John chapter 1.
Now 1John 1:1-10,
- but if we(John and those who have eternal life) walk in the light as He is in the ligh we have fellowship one with another(the saved)
and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us(John and born again christians)
from all sin

- If we(John includes himself with the saved christians)
SAY THAT WE(John and the born again) HAVE NO SIN WE(John includes himself) DECEIVE OURSELVES(John includes himself) AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN US(John includes himself

John plainly says about himself, that if born again christians claim to be sinless they are deceived and they are not believing the truth.

That would include you denying John sins, JUST AS HE SAYS HE DOES.
 

MostlyConfused

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You claim that “twice dead” means these people were regenerated and then lost their spiritual life. WHERE DOES JUDE SAY THAT? He doesn't! You have inserted your own interpretation into the passage and are presenting it as God's Word.
Search the scriptures and see for yourself - NO PROPHET EVER COMES FROM GALILEE!! Where does it say that?? It doesn’t! You are just deluded and making things up!!
 
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ScottA

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And to those claiming that being called a servant in Matthew 25 proves someone was saved, Jesus warned that many would call Him Lord, yet He would declare, "I never knew you" (Matthew 7:23).
Calling Jesus Lord does not constitute being saved.

With such little understanding and knowledge--you should not be commenting at all, but by commandment of God, as it is written, you should "keep silent in church."
 

Titus

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You apparently didn't read all of my post--because I explained that.
I did,
Therefore, it is wrong to assume John is saying everyone listening (including himself) is one way or the other. Because, he was simply stating what was and is true, "if.
John includes himself as a sinner who needs to confess.
John plainly contradicts your doctrine as he says any born again Christian who says he does not sin is decieved.
Please read the entire book of 1John chapter 1.
Now 1John 1:1-10,
- but if we(John and those who have eternal life) walk in the light as He is in the ligh we have fellowship one with another(the saved)
and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us(John and born again christians)
from all sin

- If we(John includes himself with the saved christians)
SAY THAT WE(John and the born again) HAVE NO SIN WE(John includes himself) DECEIVE OURSELVES(John includes himself) AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN US(John includes himself

John plainly says about himself, that if born again christians claim to be sinless they are deceived and they are not believing the truth.
 

ScottA

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John includes himself as a sinner who needs to confess.
John plainly contradicts your doctrine as he says any born again Christian who says he does not sin is decieved.
No...that is not what John said. That is a biblical impossibility, an oxymoron. Even John clarified that. You are adding to it, leaning on your own understanding.
 
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Titus

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No...that is not what John said. That is a biblical impossibility, an oxymoron. Even John clarified that. You are adding to it, leaning on your own understanding
John did clarify who sins and needs repentance.
1John 1:8-10,
Please read the entire book of 1John chapter 1.
Now 1John 1:1-10,
- but if we(John and those who have eternal life) walk in the light as He is in the ligh we have fellowship one with another(the saved)
and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us(John and born again christians)
from all sin

- If we(John includes himself with the saved christians)
SAY THAT WE(John and the born again) HAVE NO SIN WE(John includes himself) DECEIVE OURSELVES(John includes himself) AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN US(John includes himself

John plainly says about himself, that if born again christians claim to be sinless they are deceived and they are not believing the truth.

That would include you denying John sins, JUST AS HE SAYS HE DOES
Paul rebuked the apostle Peter for his sin.
Paul rebuked Peter for withdrawing fellowship with gentle christians because Peter feared the Jews who insisted on circumcision for salvation.

Galatians 2:11-12,
- but when Peter was come to Antioch I withstood him face to face because he was to be blamed
- for before that certain came from James he did eat with gentiles but when they(jews) did come he(Peter) withdrew and seperated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision

Peter's conduct was sinful because he was being a hypocrite, eating with gentiles but when Jews were around he would not.
Peter's hypocrisy caused other Jewish Christians to imitate Peter's sin.

Galatians 2:14,
- but when I saw that they(Jewish christians) walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel
I said unto Peter before them all, If thou being a jew livest after the manner of the gentiles and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the gentiles to live as the Jews

Peter's actions were hypocrisy.
Peter's actions communicated a message inconsistent with the gospel.
Peter not eating with gentiles when Jews were around encouraged the idea that gentile christians were inferior to jews.

Paul therefore had to correct Peter's hypocrisy publicly because his conduct contradicted the gospel.

This proves apostles who are born again commited sin.

Jesus shows hypocrisy equates to iniquity(sin).

Matthew 23:28,
- even so, ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity
 
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Titus

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No...that is not what John said. That is a biblical impossibility, an oxymoron. Even John clarified that. You are adding to it, leaning on your own understanding.
Do you sin?
 

ScottA

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John did clarify who sins and needs repentance.
1John 1:8-10,

Paul rebuked the apostle Peter for his sin.
Paul rebuked Peter for withdrawing fellowship with gentle christians because Peter feared the Jews who insisted on circumcision for salvation.

Galatians 2:11-12,
- but when Peter was come to Antioch I withstood him face to face because he was to be blamed
- for before that certain came from James he did eat with gentiles but when they(jews) did come he(Peter) withdrew and seperated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision

Peter's conduct was sinful because he was being a hypocrite, eating with gentiles but when Jews were around he would not.
Peter's hypocrisy caused other Jewish Christians to imitate Peter's sin.

Galatians 2:14,
- but when I saw that they(Jewish christians) walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel
I said unto Peter before them all, If thou being a jew livest after the manner of the gentiles and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the gentiles to live as the Jews

Peter's actions were hypocrisy.
Peter's actions communicated a message inconsistent with the gospel.
Peter not eating with gentiles when Jews were around encouraged the idea that gentile christians were inferior to jews.

Paul therefore had to correct Peter's hypocrisy publicly because his conduct contradicted the gospel.

This proves apostles who are born again commited sin.

Jesus shows hypocrisy equates to iniquity(sin).

Matthew 23:28,
- even so, ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity
You are doing it again--assuming and believing according to your own understanding, and are in error in ways you apparently do not even understand.

Peter was wrong, and fell short of his walk with his right foot on the sea and his left foot on the land. That is not hypocrisy, and it is not sin.

And I am not going to explain further--you can ask.
 

Titus

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You are doing it again--assuming and believing according to your own understanding, and are in error in ways you do not even understand.

Peter was wrong, and fell short of his walk with his right foot on the sea and his left foot on the land. That is not hypocrisy, and it is not sin.

And I am not going to explain further--you can ask.
You explained nothing about Galatians 2.
Just telling a person their wrong with no evidence proves nothing.
 

sondring7

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John did clarify who sins and needs repentance.
1John 1:8-10,

Paul rebuked the apostle Peter for his sin.
Paul rebuked Peter for withdrawing fellowship with gentle christians because Peter feared the Jews who insisted on circumcision for salvation.

Galatians 2:11-12,
- but when Peter was come to Antioch I withstood him face to face because he was to be blamed
- for before that certain came from James he did eat with gentiles but when they(jews) did come he(Peter) withdrew and seperated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision

Peter's conduct was sinful because he was being a hypocrite, eating with gentiles but when Jews were around he would not.
Peter's hypocrisy caused other Jewish Christians to imitate Peter's sin.

Galatians 2:14,
- but when I saw that they(Jewish christians) walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel
I said unto Peter before them all, If thou being a jew livest after the manner of the gentiles and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the gentiles to live as the Jews

Peter's actions were hypocrisy.
Peter's actions communicated a message inconsistent with the gospel.
Peter not eating with gentiles when Jews were around encouraged the idea that gentile christians were inferior to jews.

Paul therefore had to correct Peter's hypocrisy publicly because his conduct contradicted the gospel.

This proves apostles who are born again commited sin.

Jesus shows hypocrisy equates to iniquity(sin).

Matthew 23:28,
- even so, ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity
++++This proves apostles who are born again commited sin.
Conc :-
To date Heaven entry is by faith and not performance eg stop sinning.
That will change come the tribulation
eg take the mark or Matt 25:37-46