Paul's Rhetoric AGAINST Works did not include Works of Faith

[nothead]

I think that you are saying that those who have the "Reformed perspective" are "throwing the baby out with the bathwater" because they include Faith in action as a part of works whereas the works that they speak of is something diferent entirely. I think you need to be talking to a "Reformed beliver" on that subject because I have no idea what the Reformed perspective on "works" are... :huh:

I cross myself when I see Calvinists...bless their souls and um uh, nevermind.

Calvinist or not, the idea that Working out One's salvation is WORKS THEOLOGY is wrong, is oddly taking the opposite tack which is MORE WRONG.

We all want to go to heaven, and most of us want to please our God. So then, what is wrong with WORKING IT? This idea of WORKING has taken on it's own negative connotation, and considered wrong by itself. There is something oddly sanctimonious about mainliners sitting pretty in their pews, patting each other on the back and claiming the absolute unconditional love of God.

God's love is not unconditional. Amy Grant started that idea way back when. My daddy's eyes or something. Then later she got tempted I don't know what the story was. Something Hollywood, most likely.

There is not any real upper requirement line, no stick or mark whereby we hit it, then we can relax. Shema makes sure of this. ALL of our heart soul and might is different for everyone, and the more given the more required.

So then this is the true juxtaposition: Shema and Lukewarm Liability. No level by which you or I can say we've made it. Only faith to faith, getting larger, more qualitatively good and magical as we go.

 

[Angelina]

God's love is not unconditional.

Oh yes it is...God's love is unconditional even when those who have chosen not to believe in him or who walk away from him...he still loves them, even when they choose death over life, Satan over Christ, Hell over Heaven...he loves them as his very own. That is why he sent such a precious sacrifice - his only begotten son to die for us. The bible says:

Romans 5
6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.


Peace!

 

[nothead]

Oh yes it is...God's love is unconditional even when those who have chosen not to believe in him or who walk away from him...he still loves them, even when they choose death over life, Satan over Christ, Hell over Heaven...he loves them as his very own. That is why he sent such a precious sacrifice - his only begotten son to die for us. The bible says:

Romans 5
6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.


Peace!

What does unconditional mean but that God loves us without condition? God's PATIENT Love and STEADFAST love nevertheless has in the end conditions.

So then I hope your post is not absolutely meant, since the OT is very consistent here. God has his limits and the opposers of Noah found this out. Which is all but some in his own family.

Another whiff by the lead batter. Your post is right if not absolutely meant, do you understand what I am saying?

Well, hello there NotHead.....hope you are doing fine. Most JW's I've ever known are usually very intelligent....so I guess they have to think there is more to this God thing than there should be.
I feel so sorry for what you have chosen to believe. It must be terrible........at least on my end looking in.

I know I'm going to heaven.......I know that I know that I know.

And I don't have to do one darn thing........

My sins are forgiven........and remembered no more.............

A changed life.........the old man is dead.

Many JW's I know....................nothing has changed in their lives, same old men...........except this stance they take in a belief system which has only been around for a short time has now crabbed hold of their minds and is taking them down to the pits of hell.

They have a form of religion...but deny the power..have nothing to do with them.
This Power.........to change a sinner on the drop of a hat.... to heal a broken body at the speed of light...to save an individual from hell's grip in a blink of an eye...to stop a man from slitting your throat with one word.......to give life to the dead.

The power is in the blood...............BLOOD
I don't know how long you have been a JW....has it been 5 years 10, 30...or have ya made a career out of it
It baffles me actually how you intelligent people fall for this.

But whatever it is ....satan's loving it...Satan will always give a big bravo out to those who don't know God but think they do.
But what ever you do..........and I mean this sincerely........if you ever try to really know Christ.......satan will be all over your butt.
And if satan isn't bothering you........................HE ALREADY HAS YOU.

YOU DON'T COME TO KNOW GOD WITHOUT COMING TO KNOW YOUR ADVERSARY

tHEY bOTH gO hAND iN hAND...Nothead...where is your power?
Peace

When a JW comes knocking on my door. They try and sell me a 1968 Volkswagon (satan) with no engine. When I have a brand new Ferrari (Jesus) sittin inthe driveway.

Power in the blood eh? Where is this in scripture? I hear pentecostals shouting it. But where did they get this idea from? Just to enlighten me...

 

[Secondhand Lion]

nothead,

Have you ever considered that God keeps getting you into these conversations so that you may hear the truth not "teach"? And He uses you to start the conversation that you need to hear. Today is the day to hear!

God is amazing, isn't He?

Good Job Angelina, your words ring as truth because they are God's very own words on the subject.

SL

 

[nothead]

nothead,

Have you ever considered that God keeps getting you into these conversations so that you may hear the truth not "teach"? And He uses you to start the conversation that you need to hear. Today is the day to hear!

God is amazing, isn't He?

Good Job Angelina, your words ring as truth because they are God's very own words on the subject.

SL

Unconditional love, eh? You just got done telling me you would DIE for this God, which any man can say, and many fewer can do...

...and now your God is Santy Claus? What? Plz remain consistent so I know what to teach you. God is Santy Claus? No you said you would die for Him.

Who dies for Santy Claus? He just don't give you what you want if you ain't good is all...

...so yeah we gonna butt heads. But I am your teacher, just remember it. Someway, somehow. You theology will be seen for what it is, hinky.

 

[RANDOR]

Quote: from NotHead.....
Power in the blood eh? Where is this in scripture? I hear pentecostals shouting it. But where did they get this idea from? Just to enlighten me...

_†




Going against everything I believe in here. Using scripture with a JW
But forget the scripture.
If you knew Jesus, you wouldn't have to try so hard to know Him.
You talk to me as the Pharisees talked to Jesus.
You think you have it all figured out, when Jesus stands before you, you would still deny Him.

You see.........you poor thing........you need a scripture...you poor thing
You are totally relying on scripture.
How many times do I have to tell you.......PUT THE BOOK DOWN AND GET ON YOUR KNEES....ASK...ASK...ASK.....drink no water eat no food...until you hear from Jesus............And do it for yourself......if you want to make sure Jesus is not God.

I did............have you?....will you?............doubt it. And here is a little secret>>>>>shhhhhhhhhhhhhh.... HE WILL SHOW UP!!!!!!!
But hey..................don't take my word for it......................You Have Been Told......Jesus will remind you of this day when you take your last breath. Sorry, I don't have a scripture for that.......But when you come to know Christ and quit studying Him falsely you know Him and I would hate for Him to tell me...depart from Me I never knew YOU!!!!!
LIKE THE DEMON SAID....JESUS I KNOW PAUL I KNOW..BUT WHO ARE YOU?
Meaning you are no threat to satan..........so you are powerless............you are not blood covered.
come to Jesus now...NotHead


The blood of Jesus will never lose its power.
When talking about blood as we know it.....human blood
1. Our Blood has a very short life span.
2. The average person has about ten pints of blood in his or her body.
3. Over half of it is liquid, called plasma
4. And most of the rest of it is made up of red cells,
5. which die after 120 days and are constantly being replaced.

In contrast, one of the most non-perishable thing on earth is gold.
Not even salt water affects it –
even if it lies in it for centuries.

These fact made by Peter, are very encouraging to us:

1 Peter 1:18-19 (NIV)
18 For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers,
19 but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect.

The blood of Jesus certainly is not perishable.

 

[Secondhand Lion]

Unconditional love, eh? You just got done telling me you would DIE for this God, which any man can say, and many fewer can do...

...and now your God is Santy Claus? What? Plz remain consistent so I know what to teach you. God is Santy Claus? No you said you would die for Him.

Who dies for Santy Claus? He just don't give you what you want if you ain't good is all...

...so yeah we gonna butt heads. But I am your teacher, just remember it. Someway, somehow. You theology will be seen for what it is, hinky.

Another gratuitous assertion....now, now, now....what did daddy tell you about this sonny?

You simply can not understand what is being said by Angelina. Your ears are deaf and your heart hardened. You think only you are right so badly that you place whatever you want in other people's mouths. You strain the gnat but swallow the camel. Take a minute to consider what is being said before you get your customary diarrhea of the mouth. Maybe we are much closer than you think, but alas you can't see past the god you've created in your own image.

SL

 

[nothead]

Quote: from NotHead.....
Power in the blood eh? Where is this in scripture? I hear pentecostals shouting it. But where did they get this idea from? Just to enlighten me...

_†




Going against everything I believe in here. Using scripture with a JW
But forget the scripture.
If you knew Jesus, you wouldn't have to try so hard to know Him.
You talk to me as the Pharisees talked to Jesus.
You think you have it all figured out, when Jesus stands before you, you would still deny Him.

You see.........you poor thing........you need a scripture...you poor thing
You are totally relying on scripture.
How many times do I have to tell you.......PUT THE BOOK DOWN AND GET ON YOUR KNEES....ASK...ASK...ASK.....drink no water eat no food...until you hear from Jesus............And do it for yourself......if you want to make sure Jesus is not God.

I did............have you?....will you?............doubt it. And here is a little secret>>>>>shhhhhhhhhhhhhh.... HE WILL SHOW UP!!!!!!!
But hey..................don't take my word for it......................You Have Been Told......Jesus will remind you of this day when you take your last breath. Sorry, I don't have a scripture for that.......But when you come to know Christ and quit studying Him falsely you know Him and I would hate for Him to tell me...depart from Me I never knew YOU!!!!!
LIKE THE DEMON SAID....JESUS I KNOW PAUL I KNOW..BUT WHO ARE YOU?
Meaning you are no threat to satan..........so you are powerless............you are not blood covered.
come to Jesus now...NotHead


The blood of Jesus will never lose its power.
When talking about blood as we know it.....human blood
1. Our Blood has a very short life span.
2. The average person has about ten pints of blood in his or her body.
3. Over half of it is liquid, called plasma
4. And most of the rest of it is made up of red cells,
5. which die after 120 days and are constantly being replaced.

In contrast, one of the most non-perishable thing on earth is gold.
Not even salt water affects it –
even if it lies in it for centuries.

These fact made by Peter, are very encouraging to us:

1 Peter 1:18-19 (NIV)
18 For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers,
19 but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect.

The blood of Jesus certainly is not perishable.

Okay, nothead can learn new things...there is power in the redemptive blood of Jesus, and we must DRINK it in order to receive power...first for redemption, next for our walk.

To drink it, is to receive the Holy Spirit indwelling:

[SIZE=.75em]56 [/SIZE]He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
[SIZE=.75em]57 [/SIZE]As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
[SIZE=.75em]58 [/SIZE]This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

[SIZE=.75em]61 [/SIZE]When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
[SIZE=.75em]62 [/SIZE]What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
[SIZE=.75em]63 [/SIZE]It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

So then thank you, Randor. The knowledge of this one is more easily experienced than explained. The MYSTERY of Christ, and the power of the Lamb's Blood. Yet directly related to the Spirit of God.

Another gratuitous assertion....now, now, now....what did daddy tell you about this sonny?

You simply can not understand what is being said by Angelina. Your ears are deaf and your heart hardened. You think only you are right so badly that you place whatever you want in other people's mouths. You strain the gnat but swallow the camel. Take a minute to consider what is being said before you get your customary diarrhea of the mouth. Maybe we are much closer than you think, but alas you can't see past the god you've created in your own image.

SL

She said God's love is defintely unconditional. Don't take a genius to know this is a modern day take on the OT GOD who is to be feared by every man woman and child on the planet. There are only 2 billion verses which will refute you, and I don't even know if the Bible HAS that many.

 

[Angelina]

quote - nothead

What does unconditional mean but that God loves us without condition? God's PATIENT Love and STEADFAST love nevertheless has in the end conditions.

Gods does love us without conditions...yes however, that does not mean that mankind is going to accept his love offering of salvation and eternal life through his son. Even if man chooses not to...God will still love them because God's love is eternal...As long as there is life in our bodies, there is hope in God. God may have his limits but there are no limits on his love toward mankind, his creation.

quote - nothead

So then I hope your post is not absolutely meant, since the OT is very consistent here. God has his limits and the opposers of Noah found this out. Which is all but some in his own family.
Another whiff by the lead batter. Your post is right if not absolutely meant, do you understand what I am saying?

God did not leave them without hope, even in prison. The bible says:

1 Peter 3

18 For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that He might bring you to God,
after being put to death in the fleshly realmbut made alive in the spiritual realm.

19 In that state He also went and made a proclamation to the spirits in prison 20 who in the past were disobedient, when God patiently waited in the days of Noah while an ark was being prepared. In it a few—that is, eight people—were saved through water. 21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the pledgeof a good conscience toward God) through the resurrection of Jesus Christ

quote - nothead

Power in the blood eh? Where is this in scripture? I hear pentecostals shouting it. But where did they get this idea from? Just to enlighten me...

Hebrews 9
11 But the Messiah has appeared, high priest of the good things that have come. In the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands (that is, not of this creation), 12 He entered the most holy place once for all, not by the blood of goats and calves, but by His own blood, having obtained eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a young cow, sprinkling those who are defiled, sanctify for the purification of the flesh, 14 how much more will the blood of the Messiah, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse our consciences from dead works to serve the living God?

18 That is why even the first covenant was inaugurated with blood. 19 For when every command had been proclaimed by Moses to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and goats, along with water, scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll itself and all the people, 20 saying, This is the blood of the covenant that God has commanded for you. 21 In the same way, he sprinkled the tabernacle and all the articles of worship with blood. 22 According to the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

Romans 3
23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. 24 They are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Him as a propitiation through faith in His blood, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His restraint God passed over the sins previously committed. 26 God presented Him to demonstrate His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be righteous and declare righteous the one who has faith in Jesus.

Ephesians 1
7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace

Colossians 1
13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.

15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

quote - nothead

She said God's love is defintely unconditional. Don't take a genius to know this is a modern day take on the OT GOD who is to be feared by every man woman and child on the planet. There are only 2 billion verses which will refute you, and I don't even know if the Bible HAS that many.

The old testament God is the same God of today. He has given his authority over to his Son. Colossians 1:15 who is the image of the invisible God, the first born over all creation, our great high priest who sits on God's right hand interceding on our behalf. Romans 8:34, Hebrews 7:24

Blessings and Peace!

 

[justaname]

quote - nothead

Gods does love us without conditions...yes however, that does not mean that mankind is going to accept his love offering of salvation and eternal life through his son. Even if man chooses not to...God will still love them because God's love is eternal...As long as there is life in our bodies, there is hope in God. God may have his limits but there are no limits on his love toward mankind, his creation.

quote - nothead

God did not leave them without hope, even in prison. The bible says:

1 Peter 3

18 For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that He might bring you to God,
after being put to death in the fleshly realmbut made alive in the spiritual realm.

19 In that state He also went and made a proclamation to the spirits in prison 20 who in the past were disobedient, when God patiently waited in the days of Noah while an ark was being prepared. In it a few—that is, eight people—were saved through water. 21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the pledgeof a good conscience toward God) through the resurrection of Jesus Christ

quote - nothead

Hebrews 9
11 But the Messiah has appeared, high priest of the good things that have come. In the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands (that is, not of this creation), 12 He entered the most holy place once for all, not by the blood of goats and calves, but by His own blood, having obtained eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a young cow, sprinkling those who are defiled, sanctify for the purification of the flesh, 14 how much more will the blood of the Messiah, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse our consciences from dead works to serve the living God?

18 That is why even the first covenant was inaugurated with blood. 19 For when every command had been proclaimed by Moses to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and goats, along with water, scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll itself and all the people, 20 saying, This is the blood of the covenant that God has commanded for you. 21 In the same way, he sprinkled the tabernacle and all the articles of worship with blood. 22 According to the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

Romans 3
23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. 24 They are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Him as a propitiation through faith in His blood, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His restraint God passed over the sins previously committed. 26 God presented Him to demonstrate His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be righteous and declare righteous the one who has faith in Jesus.

Ephesians 1
7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace

Colossians 1
13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.

15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

quote - nothead

The old testament God is the same God of today. He has given his authority over to his Son. Colossians 1:15 who is the image of the invisible God, the first born over all creation, our great high priest who sits on God's right hand interceding on our behalf. Romans 8:34, Hebrews 7:24

Blessings and Peace!

Shalom...

The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

[SIZE=.75em]22 The steadfast love of the Lord[/SIZE] never ceases;
his mercies never come to an end;
[SIZE=.75em]23 they are new every morning;[/SIZE]
great is your faithfulness.

Love never fails.

 

[nothead]

Three members: God is Santy Claus. No need to fear this God. He only Ho Hos his way back and forth, giving presents to the good ones, and regret they didn't git their presents when they were bad...

Nothead visitor: God is to be feared with fear and trembling, in the SPIRIT as those all did when Ananias and Sapphira fell like bricks, dead as a doornail which is pretty dead.

HOW dead is debatable but that they all feared is not.

 

[Angelina]

Shalom...

The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

[SIZE=.75em]22 The steadfast love of the Lord[/SIZE] never ceases;
his mercies never come to an end;
[SIZE=.75em]23 they are new every morning;[/SIZE]
great is your faithfulness.

Love never fails.

1 Corinthians 13
4 Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, 5 does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, 6 does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never fails...

Luke 11
9 “So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.
11 “Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? 12 Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? 13 If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”

 

[justaname]

God's progressive revelation...

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom; A good understanding have all those who do His commandments; His praise endures forever.

In this is love perfected with us, that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so are we in this world. There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and he who fears is not perfected in love.

It is easy to comprehend that sin before the Lord should cause you to tremble, yet if you live the Shem'a then you live (love) perfectly.

I posted this in another thread...What matters is faith working in love.

"Works of faith" is not some enigma or some hidden knowledge, it is simply practicing love. What the HolySpirit reveals through the authors of the New Testament is those who are saved bear fruit. (love of God, love of others)

Where people get it wrong is when they say "you better or else"...
Think of the motivator here...fear, reliance in self for the realization of salvation, self preservation. How can one truly act selfless (out of love) when you are acting out of fear? Thank God this is not His revelation through scripture. Yes fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, but perfected love casts out all fear. Love truly respects God and gives Him His proper due. Fear is the milk, love is the meat.

 

[nothead]

God's progressive revelation...

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom; A good understanding have all those who do His commandments; His praise endures forever.

In this is love perfected with us, that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so are we in this world. There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and he who fears is not perfected in love.

It is easy to comprehend that sin before the Lord should cause you to tremble, yet if you live the Shem'a then you live (love) perfectly.

I posted this in another thread...What matters is faith working in love.

"Works of faith" is not some enigma or some hidden knowledge, it is simply practicing love. What the HolySpirit reveals through the authors of the New Testament is those who are saved bear fruit. (love of God, love of others)

Where people get it wrong is when they say "you better or else"...
Think of the motivator here...fear, reliance in self for the realization of salvation, self preservation. How can one truly act selfless (out of love) when you are acting out of fear? Thank God this is not His revelation through scripture. Yes fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, but perfected love casts out all fear. Love truly respects God and gives Him His proper due. Fear is the milk, love is the meat.

Works of faith are indeed love, but the Shema love first, having been reflected from the Source, is the Subject of love first and then to neighbor.

I am not saying "better or else" I am saying if you know rebirth then you too will not buck the Shema which in doing you show evidence of your Circumcision of Heart and Sprit-filled status.

Not that I would need proof from you, just saying what the result is, and this applies to any Christian on this forum.

Those who hear Shema will not disregard Shema because Shema, the love of YHWH Elohim is ALREADY upon their hearts, Selah.

See, you are smacking your head against the Great Wall of Nothead for no reason touting LUUUUUV. Shema IS the love of YHWH Elohim then neighbor. Capisce?

But back to the subject, which is whether or not God is to be feared, or loved. We think in our bitty itty brains these are mutually exclusive things, but the fear of YHWH and the love of YHWH actually go hand in hand. Because He AIN'T your mommy or your daddy, and because He can PUT YOU IN HELL, you will not treat him as a parent but as the God He is.

I ain't no hell and high water I mean brimstone kinda guy. But I believe the fear of God on a daily basis is the true attitude of love. Noah's not so lucky neighbors can attest. Aaron can attest, who did not step on the Promised Land. Ananias and Saphirra can attest. Even David can attest when he LOST the relationship of Spirit he had always been blessed with.

You'all entrenched in modern day brouhaha. If'n we were fighting to the death enemies, starving, dying of disease and plague, seeing our society at risk, government going down the tubes, money worth half as much the next day, cartels in the streets, murder for a few hundred dollars, the cost of a human life...

...we too would fear the things of the world first and then learn to fear God first so that these things are not to be the terrible things they seem.

[SIZE=.75em]28 [/SIZE]And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
[SIZE=.75em]29 [/SIZE]Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.
[SIZE=.75em]30 [/SIZE]But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
[SIZE=.75em]31 [/SIZE]Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.
[SIZE=.75em]32 [/SIZE]Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
[SIZE=.75em]33 [/SIZE]But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

So then is Jesus saying to fear God or not? Trust and fear. Both.

How can this be? Well then it is a conundrum for the babes. Nothead is more mature.

I'm a BIG baby, baby.

 

[Angelina]

Once again I would like to point out that we are not Israelites nor are we to follow Judaic Jewish beliefs particulaly since they do not accept Jesus as their Messiah and Savior and they wait upon another who is supposedly a conquering king.

What I do find interesting about these three passages however, is Jesus reponse to the enquirers...

Matthew 22
35 Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Mark 12
28 Then one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, perceiving that He had answered them well, asked Him, “Which is the first commandment of all?”

29 Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ This is the first commandment. 31 And the second, like it, is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

Luke 10
25 And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?”
27 So he answered and said, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’”
28 And He said to him, “You have answered rightly; do this and you will live.”

In the passage of Matthew and Luke, the enquirers were lawyers and "Hear O Israel" was not recited by Jesus.
[G3544] nomikos - lawyer
From G3551; according (or pertaining) to law, that is, legal (ceremonially); as noun, an expert in the (Mosaic) law: - about the law, lawyer.

In the passage of Mark, the enquirer was a scribe and Jesus recites "Hear O Israel"
[G1122] grammateus - scribe
From G1121; a writer, that is, (professionally) scribe or secretary: - scribe, town-clerk.

Just some things to think about..."Hear O Israel" may have just been an introduction piece, a clearing of ones throat if you will.... before reciting the Law and not part of the law itself...

 

[nothead]

Once again I would like to point out that we are not Israelites nor are we to follow Judaic Jewish beliefs particulaly since they do not accept Jesus as their Messiah and Savior and they wait upon another who is supposedly a conquering king.

What I do find interesting about these three passages however, is Jesus reponse to the enquirers...

Matthew 22
35 Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Mark 12
28 Then one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, perceiving that He had answered them well, asked Him, “Which is the first commandment of all?”

29 Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ This is the first commandment. 31 And the second, like it, is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

Luke 10
25 And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?”
27 So he answered and said, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’”
28 And He said to him, “You have answered rightly; do this and you will live.”

In the passage of Matthew and Luke, the enquirers were lawyers and "Hear O Israel" was not recited by Jesus.
[G3544] nomikos - lawyer
From G3551; according (or pertaining) to law, that is, legal (ceremonially); as noun, an expert in the (Mosaic) law: - about the law, lawyer.

In the passage of Mark, the enquirer was a scribe and Jesus recites "Hear O Israel"
[G1122] grammateus - scribe
From G1121; a writer, that is, (professionally) scribe or secretary: - scribe, town-clerk.

Just some things to think about..."Hear O Israel" may have just been an introduction piece, a clearing of ones throat if you will.... before reciting the Law and not part of the law itself...

What do you think Jesus meant when he said to the Samaritan woman "Salvation is from the Jews?"

Your first statement kind of makes the whole OT moot and void.

 

[Angelina]

Where do you think Jesus fits in??? did he come through the line of the Gentiles or from Judah of Israel? :wacko: Salvation is indeed from the Jews because Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit and from the tribe of Judah....

 

[nothead]

Where do you think Jesus fits in??? did he come through the line of the Gentiles or from Judah of Israel? :wacko: Salvation is indeed from the Jews because Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit and from the tribe of Judah....

Not only that but the things God told his chosen people were not lies, but the truth. Old Covenant morphs into New since the Jews could not ACCOMPLISH it.

But you have to understand the Old in order to understand the New. This is where Shema fits in.

 

[shturt678]

Once again I would like to point out that we are not Israelites nor are we to follow Judaic Jewish beliefs particulaly since they do not accept Jesus as their Messiah and Savior and they wait upon another who is supposedly a conquering king.

What I do find interesting about these three passages however, is Jesus reponse to the enquirers...

Matthew 22
35 Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Mark 12
28 Then one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, perceiving that He had answered them well, asked Him, “Which is the first commandment of all?”

29 Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ This is the first commandment. 31 And the second, like it, is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

Luke 10
25 And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?”
27 So he answered and said, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’”
28 And He said to him, “You have answered rightly; do this and you will live.”

In the passage of Matthew and Luke, the enquirers were lawyers and "Hear O Israel" was not recited by Jesus.
[G3544] nomikos - lawyer
From G3551; according (or pertaining) to law, that is, legal (ceremonially); as noun, an expert in the (Mosaic) law: - about the law, lawyer.

In the passage of Mark, the enquirer was a scribe and Jesus recites "Hear O Israel"
[G1122] grammateus - scribe
From G1121; a writer, that is, (professionally) scribe or secretary: - scribe, town-clerk.

Just some things to think about..."Hear O Israel" may have just been an introduction piece, a clearing of ones throat if you will.... before reciting the Law and not part of the law itself...

Thank you for caring!

Moses as well as Jesus put the "gospel" first then adds the law.

Only a head's up,

Old Jack,

btw "preach the 'gospel' at all times and sometimes use words," by ?

 

[nothead]

Once again I would like to point out that we are not Israelites nor are we to follow Judaic Jewish beliefs particulaly since they do not accept Jesus as their Messiah and Savior and they wait upon another who is supposedly a conquering king.

What I do find interesting about these three passages however, is Jesus reponse to the enquirers...

Matthew 22
35 Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Mark 12
28 Then one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, perceiving that He had answered them well, asked Him, “Which is the first commandment of all?”

29 Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ This is the first commandment. 31 And the second, like it, is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

Luke 10
25 And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?”
27 So he answered and said, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’”
28 And He said to him, “You have answered rightly; do this and you will live.”

In the passage of Matthew and Luke, the enquirers were lawyers and "Hear O Israel" was not recited by Jesus.
[G3544] nomikos - lawyer
From G3551; according (or pertaining) to law, that is, legal (ceremonially); as noun, an expert in the (Mosaic) law: - about the law, lawyer.

In the passage of Mark, the enquirer was a scribe and Jesus recites "Hear O Israel"
[G1122] grammateus - scribe
From G1121; a writer, that is, (professionally) scribe or secretary: - scribe, town-clerk.

Just some things to think about..."Hear O Israel" may have just been an introduction piece, a clearing of ones throat if you will.... before reciting the Law and not part of the law itself...

Thank you for caring!

Moses as well as Jesus put the "gospel" first then adds the law.

Only a head's up,

Old Jack,

btw "preach the 'gospel' at all times and sometimes use words," by ?










Gospel only makes sense in terms of God's Commands (Law).

Purity is right. It is easier for a Jew to be saved in the time of Jesus before they made him God.

Since the Jew KNOWS the need for sacrifice and the need for propitiation. Hint: he recited the Shema every day. He KNOWS how hard it is to do, to love the ONE GOD with all of his heart soul and might.

Anyone can easily do the Ten. I know besides the sabbath law, may heathens who are 'good.'

It is GOD's definition of GOOD which must be considered. Shema. Why? Why since it is the GREAT COMMAND. Eh. Um. Duh and buh.