Paul's Rhetoric AGAINST Works did not include Works of Faith

[nothead]

Title says it all. N/T.

Reformed mantra: God did it, God does it, we don't.

Well if you don't someone else will and they will get their reward. A single CUP of water to the disciples has one.

Don't kid yourself, Rewards are hoped for by man and child. Heaven ain't the same for everyone. LEAST in the kingdom. RIGHT and LEFT hands of Jesus. MANY mansions.

Yeah, God is doing these WORKS OF FAITH. Impetus toward. Still small voice. Power to do, to see the end of, the will of God comprehended.

But your obedience is required. FAITH is required from you end too. Reformed don't HAVE THIS, in general. Pentecostals are MORE LIKELY TO.

See, Covenant is Two Ways. You and God. God and you. Did I say N/T? I lied.

Can't HELP but ramble on about God, sorry. Not really, munchkins.

 

[Angelina]

Reformed mantra: God did it, God does it, we don't.

In regards to salvation, I agree...It begins as a free gift by faith

Ephesians 2
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

In regards to good works - God knows each of us inimately and he has set the path before us individuals.

The process of sanctification into the image of Christ, the impartation of the gifts, the good works prepared beforehand, the bearing of good fruit that lasts...It is still God, but man plays a signicant part in it through his obedience and willingness clothed in his newman suit.
10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Blessings!!!

 

[nothead]

In regards to salvation, I agree...It begins as a free gift by faith

Ephesians 2
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

In regards to good works - God knows each of us inimately and he has set the path before us individuals.

The process of sanctification into the image of Christ, the impartation of the gifts, the good works prepared beforehand, the bearing of good fruit that lasts...It is still God, but man plays a signicant part in it through his obedience and willingness clothed in his newman suit.
10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Blessings!!!

You have been saved...well this kind of implies you made it. Problemo: you haven't made it.

The key is to realize that the Gift of Salvation is into Covenant. Yes, you are SAVED relatively speaking from the bonds of sin and death in the here and now.

And those that complete their Covenant with God, to His satisfaction, or at least to His mediator's mediation, will dance on them streets of gold, amen.

Reformed consider the whole deal done. [edited by the mod]

Of course the whole deal ain't done. And God has not decided yet, from man's POV. As men and women we act as if the equation is not closed. Of our life.

Because no man can know the end-game sovereign will of God. Whether you are written in the Book of Life from the Foundation of the World or not.
No matter how much God 'sealed' you. No matter how much confidence you might have. "Lead me not into temptation" is the prayer of the faithful.
Not, "Thank you Lord for sealing my deal."

The Free Gift is into Covenant. Now your race starts. Amen.

 

[RANDOR]

Well, hello there NotHead.....hope you are doing fine. Most JW's I've ever known are usually very intelligent....so I guess they have to think there is more to this God thing than there should be.
I feel so sorry for what you have chosen to believe. It must be terrible........at least on my end looking in.

I know I'm going to heaven.......I know that I know that I know.

And I don't have to do one darn thing........

My sins are forgiven........and remembered no more.............

A changed life.........the old man is dead.

Many JW's I know....................nothing has changed in their lives, same old men...........except this stance they take in a belief system which has only been around for a short time has now crabbed hold of their minds and is taking them down to the pits of hell.

They have a form of religion...but deny the power..have nothing to do with them.
This Power.........to change a sinner on the drop of a hat.... to heal a broken body at the speed of light...to save an individual from hell's grip in a blink of an eye...to stop a man from slitting your throat with one word.......to give life to the dead.

The power is in the blood...............BLOOD
I don't know how long you have been a JW....has it been 5 years 10, 30...or have ya made a career out of it
It baffles me actually how you intelligent people fall for this.

But whatever it is ....satan's loving it...Satan will always give a big bravo out to those who don't know God but think they do.
But what ever you do..........and I mean this sincerely........if you ever try to really know Christ.......satan will be all over your butt.
And if satan isn't bothering you........................HE ALREADY HAS YOU.

YOU DON'T COME TO KNOW GOD WITHOUT COMING TO KNOW YOUR ADVERSARY

tHEY bOTH gO hAND iN hAND...Nothead...where is your power?
Peace

When a JW comes knocking on my door. They try and sell me a 1968 Volkswagon (satan) with no engine. When I have a brand new Ferrari (Jesus) sittin inthe driveway.

 

[nothead]

Well, hello there NotHead.....hope you are doing fine. Most JW's I've ever known are usually very intelligent....so I guess they have to think there is more to this God thing than there should be.
I feel so sorry for what you have chosen to believe. It must be terrible........at least on my end looking in.

I know I'm going to heaven.......I know that I know that I know.

And I don't have to do one darn thing........

My sins are forgiven........and remembered no more.............

A changed life.........the old man is dead.

Many JW's I know....................nothing has changed in their lives, same old men...........except this stance they take in a belief system which has only been around for a short time has now crabbed hold of their minds and is taking them down to the pits of hell.

They have a form of religion...but deny the power..have nothing to do with them.
This Power.........to change a sinner on the drop of a hat.... to heal a broken body at the speed of light...to save an individual from hell's grip in a blink of an eye...to stop a man from slitting your throat with one word.......to give life to the dead.

The power is in the blood...............BLOOD
I don't know how long you have been a JW....has it been 5 years 10, 30...or have ya made a career out of it
It baffles me actually how you intelligent people fall for this.

But whatever it is ....satan's loving it...Satan will always give a big bravo out to those who don't know God but think they do.
But what ever you do..........and I mean this sincerely........if you ever try to really know Christ.......satan will be all over your butt.
And if satan isn't bothering you........................HE ALREADY HAS YOU.

YOU DON'T COME TO KNOW GOD WITHOUT COMING TO KNOW YOUR ADVERSARY

tHEY bOTH gO hAND iN hAND...Nothead...where is your power?
Peace

JW's are not pentecostal. I am. Where is my power?

God is my power as God was Jesus' power. By his consistent confession:

Jn 8:

[SIZE=.75em]28 [/SIZE]Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
[SIZE=.75em]29 [/SIZE]And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

If I have no power it is because the Holy Spirit gave me no power. JW's do not confess this.

 

[RANDOR]

So you're sayin you are not a JW?

 

[nothead]

So you're sayin you are not a JW?

Yeth. Got something against them? Who told you they are a cult? Relatively speaking they have as much fire as Christians who are not pentecostal can have.

 

[RANDOR]

Got nothing against JW's never have.
I just consider them still lost.

 

[nothead]

Got nothing against JW's never have.
I just consider them still lost.

WHY?

 

[RANDOR]

Has Jesus washed away your sins?

 

[nothead]

Has Jesus washed away your sins?

Until I sin again, he has. Then I take my new sin to the same altar.

If I say I do not sin I am a liar. Mainly because SIN is to NOT LOVE GOD with all of my heart soul and might.

So then I am consistently repenting and confessing to God. Through the propitiation of his Son.

This is the pattern I gather. "Once and for all," defeats 1 John 1


[SIZE=.75em]6 [/SIZE]If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
[SIZE=.75em]7 [/SIZE]But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
[SIZE=.75em]8 [/SIZE]If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
[SIZE=.75em]9 [/SIZE]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
[SIZE=.75em]10 [/SIZE]If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

[RANDOR]

That was great. I agree

But what is this altar you speak of ?

 

[Angelina]

You have been saved...well this kind of implies you made it. Problemo: you haven't made it.

The key is to realize that the Gift of Salvation is into Covenant. Yes, you are SAVED relatively speaking from the bonds of sin and death in the here and now.

And those that complete their Covenant with God, to His satisfaction, or at least to His mediator's mediation, will dance on them streets of gold, amen.

Reformed consider the whole deal done. [edited by the mod]

Of course the whole deal ain't done. And God has not decided yet, from man's POV. As men and women we act as if the equation is not closed. Of our life.

Because no man can know the end-game sovereign will of God. Whether you are written in the Book of Life from the Foundation of the World or not.
No matter how much God 'sealed' you. No matter how much confidence you might have. "Lead me not into temptation" is the prayer of the faithful.
Not, "Thank you Lord for sealing my deal."

The Free Gift is into Covenant. Now your race starts. Amen.

Of course it is not completed yet. Salvation means that we have translated out of the kingdom of darkness into the Kingdom of his son through the covenant of his blood and sacrifice of himself on our behalf. We accept this by faith. The bible says that Jesus will come a second time. Not to bear sin again but to bring salvation for those who wait for him. Hebrews 9:28

1. Hebrews 9:28
   so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.
   

You are preaching to the converted...Shalom!!!

 

[nothead]

Of course it is not completed yet. Salvation means that we have translated out of the kingdom of darkness into the Kingdom of his son through the covenant of his blood and sacrifice of himself on our behalf. We accept this by faith. The bible says that Jesus will come a second time. Not to bear sin again but to bring salvation for those who wait for him. Hebrews 9:28

1. Hebrews 9:28
   so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.
   

You are preaching to the converted...Shalom!!!

I am railing against any Reformed on this forum. There may not be very many. Vestiges of Reformed theology abound even among the faithful...

...leading very directly to lukewarm lives. And an "add-on" idea of religion. To the main cell which are our own desires.

 

[Angelina]

I am a Pentecostal believer but I respect their Theology although I may not understand some of it. It would make for better posts if we try to understand each other even though we may not agree...that to me is "Christ in action"....

 

[nothead]

I am a Pentecostal believer but I respect their Theology although I may not understand some of it. It would make for better posts if we try to understand each other even though we may not agree...that to me is "Christ in action"....

Every forum has it's bad quo and status quo. To each it's own.

'Course I am speaking from the wrong side of the fence, according to the status quo here. And I don't even need to read your SofF to know it.

Just stirring the pot. And seeing what comes up is all. Little ones, big ones, fat ones skinny ones...

 

[Angelina]

I do not believe in a "Purpose Driven Church" also but rather a "God led Church" there is a significant difference between driven and led....

Just stirring the pot. And seeing what comes up is all. Little ones, big ones, fat ones skinny ones...

please be mindful of my PM to you...

Thank you

 

[nothead]

I do not believe in a "Purpose Driven Church" also but rather a "God led Church" there is a significant difference between driven and led....




please be mindful of my PM to you...

Thank you

The sanctimonious idea that WORKING the Works of faith is trying to get to heaven by means of WORKS theology is off. Paul the man who juxtaposes Faith and "Works" I do not think includes the "faith works" of the faithful. This is key because those who deny Works to the point of even denying the working out of our salvation missed the point.

The Law cannot save us since we cannot do the Law sufficiently. But this means specifically the Great Law, Shema, since many of us can do the Ten, or the general Laws of God.

But Paul STILL said:

[SIZE=.75em]5 [/SIZE]But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
[SIZE=.75em]6 [/SIZE]Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
[SIZE=.75em]7 [/SIZE]To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
[SIZE=.75em]8 [/SIZE]But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

So then, these are faith-works, not oddball sublaws of repetitions of prayer or nitpicky burdens on the backs of our own.

The Works of iniquity brings death. The Works of faith bring life both to you and those around you.

The Works of the Law in OT mode were frequently shadows of the real thing. FAITH WORKS are the real thing.

Hence I do not believe Paul was speaking of FAITH WORKS when he juxtaposes Works and Faith.

 

[RANDOR]

I'm sorry.......everything you talk about makes not one ounce of sense to me.....I'm totally lost in your words.
I guess you understand them.
But it is as a foriegn language to me.
If you are trying to tell me about God...Jesus....I'm totally lost.

It's really not that hard to tell someone about Jesus.
when you have been saved and delivered...then you show them Jesus not tell them about Him.

If you tell me about Jesus......then I'm just taking your word for it...and having to believe what you tell me.

How sad it is to have only faith in manipulated scriptures.....

KNOW THE KING PERSONALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! JESUS

Enjoy your scripture wars..............Jesus and my wife and I are going shopping

God Bless ya †

 

[Angelina]

I think that you are saying that those who have the "Reformed perspective" are "throwing the baby out with the bathwater" because they include Faith in action as a part of works whereas the works that they speak of is something diferent entirely. I think you need to be talking to a "Reformed beliver" on that subject because I have no idea what the Reformed perspective on "works" are... :huh: