The only one predestinated by God was Jesus Christ, he was predestinated to be the savior of the world. The Jews were predestinated to be the orators of God's word.
Pentecostalism: The Glorification of the Flesh
- Thread starter Robert Pate
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None of the scriptures that you quoted supports Calvinism.
The "us" in Ephesians1:4 is everyone. God chose all of humanity in Jesus Christ. You missed that. You missed the fact that God loves the world, John 3:16. and does not want any to perish, 2 Peter 3:9. You are as hell bound as they come.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Ephesians 1 shows the apostles were also predestined. And Ephesians 4 shows offices that were also predestined. Many are called, few are CHOSEN.
cc: @BarneyFife
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1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
"Everyone" we're NOT the first to believe, as were the apostles. Ephesians 1:12. Everyone else is in the next verse, 13.
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So called limited atonement is false... here some verses that demonstrate that...
Romans 8:29,30
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Ephesians 5:1
Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children
Romans 1:19-21
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Titus 2:11,12
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
Romans 8:29,30
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Ephesians 5:1
Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children
Romans 1:19-21
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Titus 2:11,12
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
Good show. You have used scripture to refute the demonic religion of Calvinism.
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1stCenturyLady
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Actually she is out of line... in a public setting tongues are only supposed to be used when there is an interpreter present.
Otherwise, nobody knows what is being said. The scripture gives instructions on this...
Yea, but how is she going to impress everyone with her superior spirituality?
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The Two Trumpets of a Worship Service...
And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, Make thee two trumpets of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps. And when they shall blow with them, all the assembly shall assemble themselves to thee at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.- Numbers 10:1-3
Two Trumpets -
1. The Worship - For the calling of the assembly
2. The Word - For the journeying of the camps
In this day and time I would recommend any denomination approved by this Christian web site... However... I would want to know two things...
1. The Worship - Does the church have a good worship leader?
2. The Word - Does the church have a good Senior Pastor?
I also enjoy Church of God (Cleveland Tn) Worship services where some old guy last night actually fell out in the Spirit. Towards the end of the service he got up and was helped back weeping as he went. A RW Schambach sermon on the importance of the Worship and the Word...
And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, Make thee two trumpets of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps. And when they shall blow with them, all the assembly shall assemble themselves to thee at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.- Numbers 10:1-3
Two Trumpets -
1. The Worship - For the calling of the assembly
2. The Word - For the journeying of the camps
In this day and time I would recommend any denomination approved by this Christian web site... However... I would want to know two things...
1. The Worship - Does the church have a good worship leader?
2. The Word - Does the church have a good Senior Pastor?
I also enjoy Church of God (Cleveland Tn) Worship services where some old guy last night actually fell out in the Spirit. Towards the end of the service he got up and was helped back weeping as he went. A RW Schambach sermon on the importance of the Worship and the Word...
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Yeah, then there's that... showing off!
The church I went to back in the day with the 2 lady pastors... they used to do this all the time, speak in tongues with no interpretation and it was like a circus side show with them bouncing around on stage.
All the church members thought they were so "anointed" and constantly reminded everyone to "touch not God's anointed" as the entire church was like a cult where the lady pastors could do NO wrong!
Most people in the church, if they had a problem they would schedule an appointment with the lady "pastors" to get "counseling" to get the Lord's leading on how they should handle their problem.
I knew that if I ever went to church and they wanted to serve kool-aid... they would be pulling a Jim Jones on everyone and just like the people that followed Jim Jones... most of the people in this church would drink the kool-aid no questions asked.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
having predestined US
The question is: who is US
Paul answers that question by revealing "that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory."
It's right in front of your nose. The answer is the apostles of whom Paul is one. Simple.
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Jim Jones was an excellent example of Satanic leading. It was the high light of his Satanic reign. The kool-aid comes in many different forms.
1stCenturyLady, welcome to the divine dance floor where predestination waltzes its way into the spotlight! Now, you've gracefully pointed out that Paul spills the theological beans on "us" in Ephesians, hinting at those who first trusted in Christ. It's like a divine reveal, right?
Let's consult the maestro himself, John Calvin, who might as well be spinning the theological turntables. According to Calvin, predestination isn't just a solo act with Jesus as the star; it's a grand ensemble, and "us" includes those handpicked to trust in Christ, performing to the praise of His glory. It's a divine dance party, and "us" is part of the choreography.
Now, about those terms like "world," "all," "whosoever," "whomever," and "us" – it's like decoding the dance steps of divine language. Calvin would argue that these terms, in the grand theological tango, carry a specific meaning. "Us" isn't a random selection; it's a chosen few, handpicked for the dance floor.
So, in this divine disco, let's keep grooving through the verses and unraveling the predestined beats. DJ Calvinist would be proud of this theological playlist, wouldn't you say? Dance on, 1stCenturyLady!
So, you want to believe that God predestinates some to heaven and some to hell. What are you going to believe about the scripture that says, "God is no respecter of anyone's persons" Acts 10:34.Ephesians 1 shows the apostles were also predestined. And Ephesians 4 shows offices that were also predestined. Many are called, few are CHOSEN.
cc: @BarneyFife
Even if she were out of line as was stated, but why do you presume she had a negative ulterior motive? Do you know her personally or has God given you a revelation of what is in her heart?
Not only is it a trump card against predestination. It is a thoroughly and completely denial of predestination. Your predestination doctrine has just sunk your ship, bow first, into the waters of your contaminated doctrine of Calvinism. "God is no respecter of anyone's person" Means just what it says. You need to take your deflated ball and go home. The game is over and you lost.Well, well, looks like we've got a scriptural showdown on our hands! Pate, you've thrown Acts 10:34 into the ring like a theological gauntlet. Let's break it down with a sprinkle of Calvinistic comedy:
Acts 10:34, the verse that declares, "God is no respecter of persons." Now, I can almost hear the drumroll of anticipation. But hold on to your theological hats, folks!
You see, Acts 10:34 isn't a trump card against predestination. It's more like a backstage pass to the divine concert. Picture this: God, the ultimate concert organizer, isn't swayed by VIP status. He doesn't play favorites like a celestial celebrity. But, and here's the kicker, that doesn't mean everyone gets a solo in the predestined choir.
In the grand theological symphony, God's sovereignty conducts the orchestra, and predestination is the divine composition. It's not about picking favorites; it's about the divine score playing out according to God's master plan.
So, Pate, Acts 10:34 is like a backstage glimpse into God's impartiality, but it doesn't dim the spotlight on predestination. The divine concert continues, and we're all part of the cosmic performance, whether in the balcony or the front row!
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