Perfect in beauty: anointed cherub?

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101G

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Eze 28 does not apply to Satan, neither was he Lucifer in Isaiah 14.

I understand you all see certain landmarks and key phrases that you liken to other parts of the Bible. And yes, there are likenesses. That isn't unusual in the Bible.

"Lucifer" in Isaiah is referring to Nebuchanezzer. You can find this prophecy fulfilled in Daniel 4.

The Prince and King of Tyre is referring to just that... The king of tyre. And "Lucifer" helped fulfill the prophecy against him!

Look at theae chapters and you will find they are both "men". Not angels or Charabums. You can even find extrabiblical sources to show the account of their battle.

What about the Eden the King of Tyre was in? Perhaps a metaphor. But also note Eze 27 which talka about a region called Eden where mechants went to. I am unaware if the Garden had a marketplace! I suspect it is a metaphor.
first thanks for the reply, but I must disagree, the king of tyre was never in the Garden of Eden.

Nebuchanezzer is never referred to "son of the morning!", or LIGHT BEARER.


the only man that i have read that come close to this title, and human is in Job 1:3
PCY
 
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FHII

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I can see what you mean about both are “men”. What scripture do you see as applying to Satan and not “men”?
I see likenesses that are applied to Satan. Not any that apply to him directly.
 

FHII

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first thanks for the reply, but I must disagree, the king of tyre was never in the Garden of Eden.
Neither was Satan. Furthermore, you are ignoring the points I made.

Nebuchanezzer is never referred to "son of the morning!", or LIGHT BEARER.
Neither is Satan. Jesus was... So what are you saying? Was Jesus Satan? Furthermore, you are ignoring sime points I made.


For me to consider that the King of Tyre (whom was defeated by Nebuchanezzer) OR that Lucifer was Satan requires the belief that Satan was a man.

I don't believe he was.

And... Give me your verse that says Satan was in the Garden of Eden... Not your inference... But the verse.
 
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VictoryinJesus

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I see likenesses that are applied to Satan. Not any that apply to him directly.

Ezekiel 28:2
[2] Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord God ; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

Ezekiel 28:12-14
[12] Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God ; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. [13] Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. [14] Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so : thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

The prince of Tyrus: yet thou art a man.
The king of Tyrus: thou art the anointed cherub that covereth.

You said: “The Prince and King of Tyre is referring to just that... The king of tyre. And "Lucifer" helped fulfill the prophecy against him!” —can you elaborate?
 

Stranger

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thanks for the response, but I must disagree,
Genesis 3:1 "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Genesis 3:2 "And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

Genesis 3:3 "But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

Genesis 3:4 "And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:Genesis 3:5 "For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Genesis 3:6 "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.


Genesis 3:22 "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

PCY.

What you see is Eve, having been deceived, took of the fruit. But even with her, the desire was never there to be 'like God'. That both became like God in 'knowing good and evil' yes. But their desire was never to be 'like God'. Only satan made that mistake. And only he alone could make it being in a much more closeness to God than Adam and Eve ever were.

Quantrill
 

101G

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Neither was Satan. Furthermore, you are ignoring the points I made.
And... Give me your verse that says Satan was in the Garden of Eden... Not your inference... But the verse
I must disagree, scripture, Genesis 3:1 "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?"

he also goes by these names and titles also,

"Serpent" is a Title of the the Appellation Satan. "Dragon" is a a Title of the Appellation Lucifer. "Destroying Angel" is a title of the Appellation Abaddon.

he's a "BEAST" which shows his moral characteristics. Belial as a Worthless One. a Murderer, and lair from the Beginning.

Neither is Satan. Jesus was... So what are you saying? Was Jesus Satan? Furthermore, you are ignoring sime points I made.
first don't be ignorant. Read a little, here is something for you to digest,
Question: Should the Bible say "Lucifer" or "morning star" in Isaiah 14:12? And does it refer to Satan?
Should the Bible say "Lucifer" or "morning star" in Isaiah 14:12? And does it refer to Satan?
 

101G

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What you see is Eve, having been deceived, took of the fruit. But even with her, the desire was never there to be 'like God'. That both became like God in 'knowing good and evil' yes. But their desire was never to be 'like God'. Only satan made that mistake. And only he alone could make it being in a much more closeness to God than Adam and Eve ever were.

Quantrill
again I must disagree, the deception was that would not die. but their "desire" was to be WISE. and God is the ONLY "WISE" ONE. scripture, Jude 1:25 "To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen".

and Satan said, Genesis 3:5 "For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil". this is wisdom. and what did the woman say? "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat".

it's clear as day. they both wanted to be like God "WISE".

PCY
 

VictoryinJesus

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again I must disagree, the deception was that would not die. but their "desire" was to be WISE. and God is the ONLY "WISE" ONE. scripture, Jude 1:25 "To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen".

and Satan said, Genesis 3:5 "For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil". this is wisdom. and what did the woman say? "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat".

it's clear as day. they both wanted to be like God "WISE".

PCY

I am sorry; I know this was a comment to Stranger but this is the main reason for OP. It is not to put focus on Satan but there is something I am really struggling with.

1 Timothy 2:14
[14] And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

I’ve always saw this as Adam went with his wife into the bondage of sin, out of love. But that is Jesus Christ, not Adam. The Son (the Lamb) was perfect and without blemish and bore (his body)transgression. Adam could not have been without blemish or the problem with sin could of been settled right then by Adam giving his life for the transgression of his body. So what did Adam do that deserved separation from God and the punishment of death? Adam was not blind and saw very clearly. He ate anyways. Why?

James 1:13-15
[13] Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: [14] But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. [15] Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Adam was the leader. Is that why he bears the punishment? The seed of the deceiver: it was sown in Eve? Right? But why do we say sin comes through the loins Adam?
 
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Stranger

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again I must disagree, the deception was that would not die. but their "desire" was to be WISE. and God is the ONLY "WISE" ONE. scripture, Jude 1:25 "To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen".

and Satan said, Genesis 3:5 "For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil". this is wisdom. and what did the woman say? "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat".

it's clear as day. they both wanted to be like God "WISE".

PCY

As I said, the woman was deceived. She did not of her own turn and say she wanted to be 'like God'. Every part of why Eve ate was the deception.

Adam ate knowingly. He was never deceived. And there is nothing to indicate he ate to be 'like God'. He ate to identify with Eve in her fall so as to get her back.

satan, the highest angel, had no one tempting him. he, in his position and place of authority, desired to be 'like God'.

Adam and Eve were in no way guilty of the sin that Lucifer committed.

Stranger
 

101G

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I am sorry; I know this was a comment to Stranger but this is the main reason for OP. It is not to put focus on Satan but there is something I am really struggling with.

1 Timothy 2:14
[14] And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

I’ve always saw this as Adam went with his wife into the bondage of sin, out of love. But that is Jesus Christ, not Adam. The Son (the Lamb) was perfect and without blemish and bore (his body)transgression. Adam could not have been without blemish or the problem with sin could of been settled right then by Adam giving his life for the transgression of his body. So what did Adam do that deserved separation from God and the punishment of death? Adam was not blind and saw very clearly. He ate anyways. Why?

James 1:13-15
[13] Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: [14] But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. [15] Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Adam was the leader. Is that why he bears the punishment? The seed of the deceiver: it was sown in Eve? Right? But why do we say sin comes through the loins Adam?
GINOLJC, to all.
#1. No, Adam was not deceived, because the serpent/the Devil was conversing with the woman who was DECEIVED. Adam "DISOBEYED", and here is the FACT, Genesis 2:15 "And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
Genesis 2:16 "And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Genesis 2:17 "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die".

so the Woman, Eve, was DECEIVED. because she was never COMMANDED by God not to Eat. only Adam was COMMANDED not to eat.

Now the transgression
the transgression was not to eat, and as the woman said to touch the fruit, she did so she was in the transgression, plain and simple. so both was in the wrong. because TRANSGRESSION means an act that goes against a law, rule, or code of conduct; an offense. here, the "Sin".

conclusion, the woman was DECEIVED in the transgression, but Adam was not deceived in the transgression. that's all it was, one was deceive, the other one was not deceive because he knew better.

so looking at 1 Timothy 2:14 the woman come out in a better light, (If we can say any), at least she was deceived, but the MAN/Adam knew better.

Hope that helped.
 
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101G

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Sorry, forgot your second half of the question.
James 1:13-15
[13] Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: [14] But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. [15] Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Adam was the leader. Is that why he bears the punishment? The seed of the deceiver: it was sown in Eve? Right? But why do we say sin comes through the loins Adam?

#1. True, God,.... get your headphones on, "GOD DO TEMPT", or "TEST", but for righteousness. as he tempted Abraham.

#2. Adam was a LEADER, correct. but not a RULER of CONTEMPT. understand Adam Leadership role was authorized, supportive scripture, Genesis 3:16 "Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee".

this saying, "he shall rule over thee" have been taken out of context. RULE "OVER" is not the same as "RULE". see, many of men have dropped the "OVER" because that added word "over" changed the context of RULE. it mean to LEAD, PROTECT, and the FIRST to SERVE...... (smile). that just got a few men... didn't it. I don't want to got into full detail, maybe another topic at another time.

PCY
 

101G

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As I said, the woman was deceived. She did not of her own turn and say she wanted to be 'like God'. Every part of why Eve ate was the deception.

Adam ate knowingly. He was never deceived. And there is nothing to indicate he ate to be 'like God'. He ate to identify with Eve in her fall so as to get her back.

satan, the highest angel, had no one tempting him. he, in his position and place of authority, desired to be 'like God'.

Adam and Eve were in no way guilty of the sin that Lucifer committed.

Stranger
first thanks for the reply.

second, I must still disagree again. she said it when ..... Genesis 3:6 "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat".

now as for Adam, he failed in his duties as husband, he was right there when his wife was tempted, again read Genesis 3:6 above, "and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat" .

he was right there "WITH" her. so he, nor her has any excuse, both sinned. onlt the woman was deceived, but both knew BETTER.

Now the scripture are plain and clear. I will not useless argue about the scriptures.


NOW one note: Just because Satan is "EVIL" it don't mean that he is sin. THINK ABOUT IT.
now he will TEMPT you, but it's you who sin. he can only temp

PCY.
 

Stranger

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first thanks for the reply.

second, I must still disagree again. she said it when ..... Genesis 3:6 "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat".

now as for Adam, he failed in his duties as husband, he was right there when his wife was tempted, again read Genesis 3:6 above, "and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat" .

he was right there "WITH" her. so he, nor her has any excuse, both sinned. onlt the woman was deceived, but both knew BETTER.

Now the scripture are plain and clear. I will not useless argue about the scriptures.


NOW one note: Just because Satan is "EVIL" it don't mean that he is sin. THINK ABOUT IT.
now he will TEMPT you, but it's you who sin. he can only temp

PCY.

Eve's deception that the fruit was good to eat does not mean she was trying to be like God. And, how did Adam fail in his duties as a husband when he was yet unfallen?

I am not saying Eve and Adam had an excuse. I am saying their reason for sinning was not the same as satan's.

Stranger
 

101G

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As I said, the woman was deceived. She did not of her own turn and say she wanted to be 'like God'. Every part of why Eve ate was the deception.

Adam ate knowingly. He was never deceived. And there is nothing to indicate he ate to be 'like God'. He ate to identify with Eve in her fall so as to get her back.

satan, the highest angel, had no one tempting him. he, in his position and place of authority, desired to be 'like God'.

Adam and Eve were in no way guilty of the sin that Lucifer committed.

Stranger
I believe you need to read my post #11. and see what I actually said.


note what "pride" means. a feeling or deep pleasure or satisfaction derived from one's own achievements, the achievements of those with whom one is closely associated, or from qualities or possessions that are widely admired.

another word for "DESIRE" is pleasure, which is what "PRIDE" means. listen, Genesis 3:6 "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat".

PCY
 

Stranger

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I believe you need to read my post #11. and see what I actually said.


note what "pride" means. a feeling or deep pleasure or satisfaction derived from one's own achievements, the achievements of those with whom one is closely associated, or from qualities or possessions that are widely admired.

another word for "DESIRE" is pleasure, which is what "PRIDE" means. listen, Genesis 3:6 "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat".

PCY

I noted you did not respond to my last reply. Instead you present a former one. Did my question bother you?

How did Adam fail in his duties as a husband, as you say, when he was yet unfallen?

Adam and Eve were in no position to be guilty of the same sin as satan which was to be like God.

As to your last post, you're starting to do gymnastics with words. In my experience when one begins that their position is not one that is just weak, but is contrived of themselves.

Stranger
 

101G

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I noted you did not respond to my last reply. Instead you present a former one. Did my question bother you?

How did Adam fail in his duties as a husband, as you say, when he was yet unfallen?

Adam and Eve were in no position to be guilty of the same sin as satan which was to be like God.

As to your last post, you're starting to do gymnastics with words. In my experience when one begins that their position is not one that is just weak, but is contrived of themselves.

Stranger
fist thanks for the reply, NO, your [post never bother. I just don't need to answer ignorance in repetition, hence the direction to a previous post.

he failed just like you're doing right now, disobeying.
As to your last post, you're starting to do gymnastics with words.
Truth hurts? ...:oops:.

see, I'm not about to argue over what the scriptures have already said. tit for tat

I 'll refer you to my previous posts.

PCY
 

Stranger

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fist thanks for the reply, NO, your [post never bother. I just don't need to answer ignorance in repetition, hence the direction to a previous post.

he failed just like you're doing right now, disobeying.

Truth hurts? ...:oops:.

see, I'm not about to argue over what the scriptures have already said. tit for tat

I 'll refer you to my previous posts.

PCY

You didn't answer anything. I will refer you back to my previous post #35 and you can reread. Then answer.

Stranger
 

amadeus

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I’ve heard so many things over the span of my life that I can’t remember, where I heard what. I’ve heard Satan was a cherub that was appointed to guard the mercy seat? This can’t be right. What is said about Satan and what verses tell us about him? I don’t mean the obvious: he is an enemy but where and when did he originate?
Lots of words, some good, and scriptures, but my own problem with "satan" has long been your final question: "he is an enemy but where and when did he originate?"

Someone long ago concluded that satan was a separate entity/being now evil which originally being on God's side would have been good. I won't cited again the scriptures people use to describe satan as most of them have already been presented on this thread. What I have done is looked rather to the first man, Adam of Genesis as being the satan or the adversary.

God created everything very good [Gen 1:31] which was stated at the end of the 6 days. Then begining with Gen 3 we see this:

"Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?" Gen 3:1

Suddenly this tempter was there and he was saying things that were not "very good". Was he self-created? Was there a creator other than God? I would say, no to both questions. My own way of seeing it is to consider the man, the first man who was created "very good" and then he disobeyed God. When Adam and Eve disobeyed they then moved themselves away from the "very good" where they started.

What I am suggesting of course is that satan is the man when the man is following his own will instead of God's will. I am not arguing that everyone should believe it this way but for me it is a better answer than the separate satan entity/being which is seemingly built on a presumption and then described or supported by the several verses of scriptures [and others] people have posted on this thread.

Man is the devil. Man is the serpent that tempted Eve. Man is the satan fallen from heaven. Man is one who moved himself from "very good" to evil. And so on...
 
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