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Featured Perfect in beauty: anointed cherub?

Discussion in 'Christian Spirituality Forum' started by VictoryinJesus, May 31, 2018.

  1. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    first thanks for the reply, but I must disagree, the king of tyre was never in the Garden of Eden.

    Nebuchanezzer is never referred to "son of the morning!", or LIGHT BEARER.


    the only man that i have read that come close to this title, and human is in Job 1:3
    PCY
     
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  2. FHII

    FHII Well-Known Member

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    I see likenesses that are applied to Satan. Not any that apply to him directly.
     
  3. FHII

    FHII Well-Known Member

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    Neither was Satan. Furthermore, you are ignoring the points I made.

    Neither is Satan. Jesus was... So what are you saying? Was Jesus Satan? Furthermore, you are ignoring sime points I made.


    For me to consider that the King of Tyre (whom was defeated by Nebuchanezzer) OR that Lucifer was Satan requires the belief that Satan was a man.

    I don't believe he was.

    And... Give me your verse that says Satan was in the Garden of Eden... Not your inference... But the verse.
     
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  4. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    Ezekiel 28:2
    [2] Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord God ; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

    Ezekiel 28:12-14
    [12] Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God ; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. [13] Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. [14] Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so : thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

    The prince of Tyrus: yet thou art a man.
    The king of Tyrus: thou art the anointed cherub that covereth.

    You said: “The Prince and King of Tyre is referring to just that... The king of tyre. And "Lucifer" helped fulfill the prophecy against him!” —can you elaborate?
     
  5. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    What you see is Eve, having been deceived, took of the fruit. But even with her, the desire was never there to be 'like God'. That both became like God in 'knowing good and evil' yes. But their desire was never to be 'like God'. Only satan made that mistake. And only he alone could make it being in a much more closeness to God than Adam and Eve ever were.

    Quantrill
     
  6. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    I must disagree, scripture, Genesis 3:1 "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?"

    he also goes by these names and titles also,

    "Serpent" is a Title of the the Appellation Satan. "Dragon" is a a Title of the Appellation Lucifer. "Destroying Angel" is a title of the Appellation Abaddon.

    he's a "BEAST" which shows his moral characteristics. Belial as a Worthless One. a Murderer, and lair from the Beginning.

    first don't be ignorant. Read a little, here is something for you to digest,
    Question: Should the Bible say "Lucifer" or "morning star" in Isaiah 14:12? And does it refer to Satan?
    Should the Bible say "Lucifer" or "morning star" in Isaiah 14:12? And does it refer to Satan?
     
  7. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    again I must disagree, the deception was that would not die. but their "desire" was to be WISE. and God is the ONLY "WISE" ONE. scripture, Jude 1:25 "To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen".

    and Satan said, Genesis 3:5 "For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil". this is wisdom. and what did the woman say? "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat".

    it's clear as day. they both wanted to be like God "WISE".

    PCY
     
  8. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    I am sorry; I know this was a comment to Stranger but this is the main reason for OP. It is not to put focus on Satan but there is something I am really struggling with.

    1 Timothy 2:14
    [14] And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

    I’ve always saw this as Adam went with his wife into the bondage of sin, out of love. But that is Jesus Christ, not Adam. The Son (the Lamb) was perfect and without blemish and bore (his body)transgression. Adam could not have been without blemish or the problem with sin could of been settled right then by Adam giving his life for the transgression of his body. So what did Adam do that deserved separation from God and the punishment of death? Adam was not blind and saw very clearly. He ate anyways. Why?

    James 1:13-15
    [13] Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: [14] But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. [15] Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

    Adam was the leader. Is that why he bears the punishment? The seed of the deceiver: it was sown in Eve? Right? But why do we say sin comes through the loins Adam?
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2018
  9. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    As I said, the woman was deceived. She did not of her own turn and say she wanted to be 'like God'. Every part of why Eve ate was the deception.

    Adam ate knowingly. He was never deceived. And there is nothing to indicate he ate to be 'like God'. He ate to identify with Eve in her fall so as to get her back.

    satan, the highest angel, had no one tempting him. he, in his position and place of authority, desired to be 'like God'.

    Adam and Eve were in no way guilty of the sin that Lucifer committed.

    Stranger
     
  10. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    GINOLJC, to all.
    #1. No, Adam was not deceived, because the serpent/the Devil was conversing with the woman who was DECEIVED. Adam "DISOBEYED", and here is the FACT, Genesis 2:15 "And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
    Genesis 2:16 "And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
    Genesis 2:17 "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die".

    so the Woman, Eve, was DECEIVED. because she was never COMMANDED by God not to Eat. only Adam was COMMANDED not to eat.

    Now the transgression
    the transgression was not to eat, and as the woman said to touch the fruit, she did so she was in the transgression, plain and simple. so both was in the wrong. because TRANSGRESSION means an act that goes against a law, rule, or code of conduct; an offense. here, the "Sin".

    conclusion, the woman was DECEIVED in the transgression, but Adam was not deceived in the transgression. that's all it was, one was deceive, the other one was not deceive because he knew better.

    so looking at 1 Timothy 2:14 the woman come out in a better light, (If we can say any), at least she was deceived, but the MAN/Adam knew better.

    Hope that helped.
     
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  11. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, forgot your second half of the question.
    #1. True, God,.... get your headphones on, "GOD DO TEMPT", or "TEST", but for righteousness. as he tempted Abraham.

    #2. Adam was a LEADER, correct. but not a RULER of CONTEMPT. understand Adam Leadership role was authorized, supportive scripture, Genesis 3:16 "Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee".

    this saying, "he shall rule over thee" have been taken out of context. RULE "OVER" is not the same as "RULE". see, many of men have dropped the "OVER" because that added word "over" changed the context of RULE. it mean to LEAD, PROTECT, and the FIRST to SERVE...... (smile). that just got a few men... didn't it. I don't want to got into full detail, maybe another topic at another time.

    PCY
     
  12. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    first thanks for the reply.

    second, I must still disagree again. she said it when ..... Genesis 3:6 "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat".

    now as for Adam, he failed in his duties as husband, he was right there when his wife was tempted, again read Genesis 3:6 above, "and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat" .

    he was right there "WITH" her. so he, nor her has any excuse, both sinned. onlt the woman was deceived, but both knew BETTER.

    Now the scripture are plain and clear. I will not useless argue about the scriptures.


    NOW one note: Just because Satan is "EVIL" it don't mean that he is sin. THINK ABOUT IT.
    now he will TEMPT you, but it's you who sin. he can only temp

    PCY.
     
  13. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    Eve's deception that the fruit was good to eat does not mean she was trying to be like God. And, how did Adam fail in his duties as a husband when he was yet unfallen?

    I am not saying Eve and Adam had an excuse. I am saying their reason for sinning was not the same as satan's.

    Stranger
     
  14. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    I believe you need to read my post #11. and see what I actually said.


    note what "pride" means. a feeling or deep pleasure or satisfaction derived from one's own achievements, the achievements of those with whom one is closely associated, or from qualities or possessions that are widely admired.

    another word for "DESIRE" is pleasure, which is what "PRIDE" means. listen, Genesis 3:6 "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat".

    PCY
     
  15. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    I noted you did not respond to my last reply. Instead you present a former one. Did my question bother you?

    How did Adam fail in his duties as a husband, as you say, when he was yet unfallen?

    Adam and Eve were in no position to be guilty of the same sin as satan which was to be like God.

    As to your last post, you're starting to do gymnastics with words. In my experience when one begins that their position is not one that is just weak, but is contrived of themselves.

    Stranger
     
  16. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    It’s a good question. ?
     
  17. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    Yes, and as unfallen, and being not deceived, his motive had to be other than sinning against God or being like God.

    Stranger
     
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  18. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    fist thanks for the reply, NO, your [post never bother. I just don't need to answer ignorance in repetition, hence the direction to a previous post.

    he failed just like you're doing right now, disobeying.
    Truth hurts? ...:oops:.

    see, I'm not about to argue over what the scriptures have already said. tit for tat

    I 'll refer you to my previous posts.

    PCY
     
  19. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    You didn't answer anything. I will refer you back to my previous post #35 and you can reread. Then answer.

    Stranger
     
  20. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    Lots of words, some good, and scriptures, but my own problem with "satan" has long been your final question: "he is an enemy but where and when did he originate?"

    Someone long ago concluded that satan was a separate entity/being now evil which originally being on God's side would have been good. I won't cited again the scriptures people use to describe satan as most of them have already been presented on this thread. What I have done is looked rather to the first man, Adam of Genesis as being the satan or the adversary.

    God created everything very good [Gen 1:31] which was stated at the end of the 6 days. Then begining with Gen 3 we see this:

    "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?" Gen 3:1

    Suddenly this tempter was there and he was saying things that were not "very good". Was he self-created? Was there a creator other than God? I would say, no to both questions. My own way of seeing it is to consider the man, the first man who was created "very good" and then he disobeyed God. When Adam and Eve disobeyed they then moved themselves away from the "very good" where they started.

    What I am suggesting of course is that satan is the man when the man is following his own will instead of God's will. I am not arguing that everyone should believe it this way but for me it is a better answer than the separate satan entity/being which is seemingly built on a presumption and then described or supported by the several verses of scriptures [and others] people have posted on this thread.

    Man is the devil. Man is the serpent that tempted Eve. Man is the satan fallen from heaven. Man is one who moved himself from "very good" to evil. And so on...
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
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