Peter's sermon, Acts 2:31-38 on Pentecost:

[bbyrd009]

Obviously you don't know that this is my thread (blog).

? obviously you don't know that threads and blogs are different

There are no scriptures I refuse to contemplate in their own context.

so you say, but the evidence suggests otherwise, HR. i have no dog in the hunt, tbh

If he wants to study water baptism or repentance then I will address them in the context of a study on them.

i always suspected you were a decent guy, lol

 

[Davy]

I believe that Peter's sermon has been taken out of context and used as a blanket sermon about repenting and being water baptized. This article is my attempt to prove that it has to be read “IN CONTEXT.“

(was it to the Jews and the Gentiles, or just to the Jews?)

Acts 2:31 38 (NKJV)
31 he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption.
32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses.
33 Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.
34 "For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:
'The Lord said to my Lord,
'Sit at My right hand,
35 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."'

In the above Peter is testifying to the “”Jews”” that Jesus is the promised Christ.

36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."

No mention of Gentiles

37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"

Peter tells the Jews they have crucified the Lord of Glory. The Jews wanted to know what they could do to atone """for crucifying Jesus."""

38 ""THEN"" Peter said to “”THEM,”” (them = the Jews) "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Note: Verse 36 is the verse that says who he is talking to, Verse 38 is a DIRECT answer to the question in verse 37. The Jews were to repent of rejecting Jesus and having Him crucified. NOTE: It was not to repent of sins of the sinful flesh. Nowhere in the context of these scriptures has sins of the sinful flesh been mentioned.

The Jews were to fulfill a Jewish ritual of water cleansing (water baptism), a ritual under the Law of Moses, and at the same time they were to 'acknowledge' Jesus as the Christ by performing a water cleansing ritual (baptism) in His name.

39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call." Note, the promises were made to the Jews only under a covenant.

Peter's sermon included verse 39 which was taken from Joel 2:28 29 and was about the ""promise of the Holy Spirit"" that was to be “”given to the Jews.”” Verse 39 was to assure the Jews that their sin of rejecting Jesus would be forgiven and that they would also be given the Holy Spirit (see verse 38). Joel 2:28 3:1

Many theologians teach that Peter was including the Gentiles in verse 39. But how can that be true since it was necessary for God, at a later date, to give Peter a dream to teach him that the Gentiles were included. Acts 10:9 16.

I believe some people are brain dead when they refuse to connect the dots. In Acts 2 we see Peter preaching to the Jews. Some say it was to everyone. But covenant promises were only made to the Jews, not the Gentiles. ---- DOT #1

In Acts 10:9 we see God giving Peter a vision which said that what God has called clean let no man call unclean. Why? Didn't Peter already know it in Acts 2??---- DOT #2

Acts 10:45
45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. astonished!!!!! according to some Peter knew it in Acts 2. --- DOT #3

We see that Peter did not know the Gentiles were included until Acts 10:45 so how could Peter start the church in Acts 2 ????

Although it was the Gentiles that actually killed Jesus they did it because the Jews insisted. The Gentiles did not need to repent for what the Jews did. Jesus was not sent to the Gentiles therefore the Gentiles had not rejected Him. (Matt 10:5 7) (Matt 15:23 24) (Rom 15:8)

Matthew 27:24 25 (NKJV)
24 When Pilate saw that he could not prevail at all, but rather that a tumult was rising, he took water and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, "I am innocent of the blood of this just Person. You see to it."
Note this verse:
25 And all the people answered and said, "His blood be on us and on our children."

Verse 25 above is important.

Peter's sermon has been used as a blanket sermon about repenting and being water baptized in many of the Christian Religious churches. It has become a “FORMULA” to be repeated in order to be saved. This formula is stated as a commandment in their theological statement.

I know that some will reject this writing. But IMHO, I don't think Peter's sermon is appropriate or valid for this age of grace and those that use it are preaching a sermon that was preached to the Jews, those that had Christ crucified, as if it also applies to the Gentiles. IMHO, that is a blatant falsehood because it is not the truth. IMHO = In my honest opinion.

Then how is one saved in this age of God’s grace? Rom 10:8 13

8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach):
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
13 For "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved." NKJV

There is nothing in Rom 10:8 13 about an act of water baptism or repentance.

Once water baptism was taught with belief on Jesus Christ after His death and resurrection, it was understood as part of belief on Jesus Christ. Just because Paul didn't mention it in Rom.10 doesn't mean it wasn't undertood along with belief. So you haven't proven anything by your tirad.

Peter in Acts 2 said all the house of Israel, and that did not mean just Jews. Most of my Christian brethren aren't well studied in Old Testament history about the split of Israel God did after Solomon's days. The Jews only made up 3 tribes of Israel after that split, with only a small remnant of the ten tribes. The kingdom of Israel were made up of the ten northern tribes only, and were not know by the title of Jews. So Peter was including not just the Jews, but also scattered ten tribed house of Israel.

And you're definitely wrong... about OT covenants not being for Gentile believers on Christ Jesus.

In Romans 9, Paul preached from Hosea 1 to believing Gentiles, even though Hosea 1 was only about the ten tribes of Israel under Ephraim. In Galatians 3, Paul showed how the Promise by Faith which was preached to Abraham was about the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and Abraham believed, and thus all those of Faith have become the children of Abraham! So right from the start, a covenant promise God gave to Abraham in the Old Testament, was also meant for Gentile believers also!

So you really ought to take your Jewish Judaizer primacy beliefs somewhere else.

 

[H. Richard]

Once water baptism was taught with belief on Jesus Christ after His death and resurrection, it was understood as part of belief on Jesus Christ. Just because Paul didn't mention it in Rom.10 doesn't mean it wasn't undertood along with belief. So you haven't proven anything by your tirad.

Peter in Acts 2 said all the house of Israel, and that did not mean just Jews. Most of my Christian brethren aren't well studied in Old Testament history about the split of Israel God did after Solomon's days. The Jews only made up 3 tribes of Israel after that split, with only a small remnant of the ten tribes. The kingdom of Israel were made up of the ten northern tribes only, and were not know by the title of Jews. So Peter was including not just the Jews, but also scattered ten tribed house of Israel.

And you're definitely wrong... about OT covenants not being for Gentile believers on Christ Jesus.

In Romans 9, Paul preached from Hosea 1 to believing Gentiles, even though Hosea 1 was only about the ten tribes of Israel under Ephraim. In Galatians 3, Paul showed how the Promise by Faith which was preached to Abraham was about the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and Abraham believed, and thus all those of Faith have become the children of Abraham! So right from the start, a covenant promise God gave to Abraham in the Old Testament, was also meant for Gentile believers also!

So you really ought to take your Jewish Judaizer primacy beliefs somewhere else.

***
And you can take your opinions somewhere else too. Your threats are just an empty knee jerk reply.

 

[bbyrd009]

**&*

Obviously you don't know that this is my thread (blog). There are no scriptures I refuse to contemplate in their own context. If he wants to study water baptism or repentance then I will address them in the context of a study on them.

fwiw i'm really not meaning to torture you lol, so much as get a clearer image of your spiritual intent, ok, like hopefully causing you to refine your terms a little or whatever--i doubt you are intentionally misdirecting anyone; we just all define terms differently, and imo most of our differences are in semantics (on our other threads, not so much here)

 

[bbyrd009]

And you're definitely wrong... about OT covenants not being for Gentile believers on Christ Jesus.

i do have to agree here though, it seems "no Jew or Gentile in the kingdom" is being flouted? @H. Richard

 

[Helen]

"his Scriptures" lol.
you even acknowledge that there is Scripture you refuse to contemplate?
reading Scripture logically is a waste of time, huh; that is the only way that can be done, i guess

Come on, be fair now.
We all know by now that any of us can use cherry picked scriptures to 'prove' some belief or doctrine . And the same person can cherry pick other scriptures and totally "disprove' what they just said.
Anyone can send any thread sideways by quoting random scriptures that go off on a tangent.

There is no confusion in God. Over all, it all is one Book. Pull a scripture here and a scripture there and then it will 'look' like the bible is confusing.

 

[bbyrd009]

Anyone can send any thread sideways by quoting random scriptures that go off on a tangent.

sure, that might happen, but usually the "random Scripture" was invoked for a reason, whether the poster is able to convey the reason or not. Anyone can also apparently ignore Scriptures that speak to the point being argued, which strikes me as a recurring theme here wadr.

Even acknowledging their existence rather than just ignoring them would be a sign to me, but i understand that logically this often just cannot be done. After a post is ignored like 5 times, i just take the hint. Put it through the fire now, or later imo

 

[bbyrd009]

Pull a scripture here and a scripture there and then it will 'look' like the bible is confusing.

i'd have to ask for an example here

and we might note that you are herenow, but HR he is gone now see

 

[Helen]

sure, that might happen, but usually the "random Scripture" was invoked for a reason, whether the poster is able to convey the reason or not. Anyone can also apparently ignore Scriptures that speak to the point being argued, which strikes me as a recurring theme here wadr.

Even acknowledging their existence rather than just ignoring them would be a sign to me, but i understand that logically this often just cannot be done. After a post is ignored like 5 times, i just take the hint. Put it through the fire now, or later imo

Oh..yes, I must agree ..and I am probably guilty on all points.

As you have noticed by now...I don't often 'play' the scripture-verse game.
It is usually a waste of time. Dogmatic people will quote the same few favourite scriptures they like....but as we know...there is ALWAYS a few opposing scriptures that seem to say the opposite. Then the discussion just get silly...like a game of cards...who can out scripture who.
Been there, done that, too many times...so I just don't bother any more.

But we can't win...because then people accuse you of not "using scripture" to support an argument......And, round and round it goes again!!!

 

[Helen]

i'd have to ask for an example here

Okay... disagreeing scriptures. Give me a moment...

1) Submit yourself to every ordinance of man…to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors. —I Peter 2:13

2 ) We ought to obey God rather than men. —Acts 5:29
================
1) And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven. —Luke 12:10

2) For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
—Romans 10:13
==================
1) Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord. —Proverbs 12:22

2)The Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee. —I Kings 22:23
===============================

1) Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. —2 Kings 24:8

2) Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem… —2 Chronicles 36:9
================
1) No man hath seen God at any time. —John 1:18

2) For I have seen God face to face. —Genesis 32:30
============
1) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. —Romans 3:23

2 )There was a man…who name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright. —Job 1:1
==============
1 ) Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. —Proverbs 26:4

2 ) Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. —Proverbs 26:5
==================
1 ) Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. —Matthew 10:34

2 ) These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. —John 16:3
==============

Cherry picking scriptures for argument , is waste of time...

But, it will forever go on.... Hence favourite doctrines and Denominations.

 

[bbyrd009]

As you have noticed by now...I don't often 'play' the scripture-verse game.
It is usually a waste of time. Dogmatic people will quote the same few favourite scriptures they like....but as we know...there is ALWAYS a few opposing scriptures that seem to say the opposite. Then the discussion just get silly...like a game of cards...who can out scripture who.

fwiw this never happens in the Eastern dialectic; it is the sole province of logic, and the Hegelian Dialectic that arises from it, that we are all so comfortable with, imo.

i have no problem contemplating the Jews as a distinct possession, as long as it is understood spiritually, and i, a Gentile, may be grafted in. But that is not what is being suggested here. Is it?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

I believe that Peter's sermon has been taken out of context and used as a blanket sermon about repenting and being water baptized. This article is my attempt to prove that it has to be read “IN CONTEXT.“

(was it to the Jews and the Gentiles, or just to the Jews?)

Acts 2:31 38 (NKJV)
31 he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption.
32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses.
33 Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.
34 "For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:
'The Lord said to my Lord,
'Sit at My right hand,
35 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."'

In the above Peter is testifying to the “”Jews”” that Jesus is the promised Christ.

36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."

No mention of Gentiles

37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"

Peter tells the Jews they have crucified the Lord of Glory. The Jews wanted to know what they could do to atone """for crucifying Jesus."""

38 ""THEN"" Peter said to “”THEM,”” (them = the Jews) "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Note: Verse 36 is the verse that says who he is talking to, Verse 38 is a DIRECT answer to the question in verse 37. The Jews were to repent of rejecting Jesus and having Him crucified. NOTE: It was not to repent of sins of the sinful flesh. Nowhere in the context of these scriptures has sins of the sinful flesh been mentioned.

The Jews were to fulfill a Jewish ritual of water cleansing (water baptism), a ritual under the Law of Moses, and at the same time they were to 'acknowledge' Jesus as the Christ by performing a water cleansing ritual (baptism) in His name.

39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call." Note, the promises were made to the Jews only under a covenant.

Peter's sermon included verse 39 which was taken from Joel 2:28 29 and was about the ""promise of the Holy Spirit"" that was to be “”given to the Jews.”” Verse 39 was to assure the Jews that their sin of rejecting Jesus would be forgiven and that they would also be given the Holy Spirit (see verse 38). Joel 2:28 3:1

Many theologians teach that Peter was including the Gentiles in verse 39. But how can that be true since it was necessary for God, at a later date, to give Peter a dream to teach him that the Gentiles were included. Acts 10:9 16.

I believe some people are brain dead when they refuse to connect the dots. In Acts 2 we see Peter preaching to the Jews. Some say it was to everyone. But covenant promises were only made to the Jews, not the Gentiles. ---- DOT #1

In Acts 10:9 we see God giving Peter a vision which said that what God has called clean let no man call unclean. Why? Didn't Peter already know it in Acts 2??---- DOT #2

Acts 10:45
45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. astonished!!!!! according to some Peter knew it in Acts 2. --- DOT #3

We see that Peter did not know the Gentiles were included until Acts 10:45 so how could Peter start the church in Acts 2 ????

Although it was the Gentiles that actually killed Jesus they did it because the Jews insisted. The Gentiles did not need to repent for what the Jews did. Jesus was not sent to the Gentiles therefore the Gentiles had not rejected Him. (Matt 10:5 7) (Matt 15:23 24) (Rom 15:8)

Matthew 27:24 25 (NKJV)
24 When Pilate saw that he could not prevail at all, but rather that a tumult was rising, he took water and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, "I am innocent of the blood of this just Person. You see to it."
Note this verse:
25 And all the people answered and said, "His blood be on us and on our children."

Verse 25 above is important.

Peter's sermon has been used as a blanket sermon about repenting and being water baptized in many of the Christian Religious churches. It has become a “FORMULA” to be repeated in order to be saved. This formula is stated as a commandment in their theological statement.

I know that some will reject this writing. But IMHO, I don't think Peter's sermon is appropriate or valid for this age of grace and those that use it are preaching a sermon that was preached to the Jews, those that had Christ crucified, as if it also applies to the Gentiles. IMHO, that is a blatant falsehood because it is not the truth. IMHO = In my honest opinion.

Then how is one saved in this age of God’s grace? Rom 10:8 13

8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach):
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
13 For "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved." NKJV

There is nothing in Rom 10:8 13 about an act of water baptism or repentance.

Matthew 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"

Mark 16:15,16 "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

Luke 24:47 "And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name "among all nations", beginning at Jerusalem."

The 3 verses cited above are 3 accounts of Christ's great commission. Peter and the other Apostles in Acts 2 were carrying out this great commission of Christ. Note Luke's account in Luke 24:47 and compare it to what happens in Acts 2 in how Peter was in Jerusalem and preached the first recorded gospel sermon where he preached "repentance" and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the "remission of sins". So Acts 2:38 is the great commission therefore is meant for all nations, every creature Jew and Gentile and it began in Jerusalem with the Jews then later went to the Gentiles as God planned (Acts 13:46). Peter and other Jews may have wrongly thought salvation was just for the Jews, but their error did not change the great commission or God's plan in the gospel (Acts 2:38) going to the Jew first, then the Gentile. Peter was corrected on the idea salvation was for the Jews only in a vision given him in Acts 10. In Acts 15:11 Peter makes the point that Jew and Gentile are saved in a 'like manner' way with that like manner way being water baptism Acts 2:38 > Acts 10:47,48.

========

Acts 2:39 those that obeyed Acts 2:38 would be heirs to "the promise" with the promise being the Abrahamic promise that any, Jew or Gentile, that becomes a Christian becomes a spiritual seed of Abraham (Galatians 3:28-29) a spiritual Jew (Romans 2:28-28)...."For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call." Acts 2:39. "All that are afar off" references the Gentiles for they are included in the great commission, they can become spiritual Jews and heirs to the promise and any misunderstanding Peter may have had of this does not change the great commission or "the promise".

========

Rom 10:9-13 does not specifically mention repentance or baptism but that does not eliminate them for they are included in other verses and are required of both Jew and Gentile.

Acts 2:21---------call upon the name of the Lord>>>>>>>>saves
Rom 10:9-10----believe and confess>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>saved
Acts 2:38---------repent & be baptized>>>>>>>>>>>>>saved

Since there is one way to be saved, no alternatives then call upon the name of the Lord includes belief, repentance, confession and baptism.

In the context of Romans chapters 9-11 Paul tells us that God has cast off the fleshly Jews from being His chosen. In Romans 9 and 10 Paul is proving to the Jews that simply being fleshly descendants of Abraham does not guarantee salvation. Paul's point in Rom 10 being that for one to be right with God does not depend on physical descent but upon obedience to God's commands. Therefore the context is not about teaching every point of salvation ("grace" or the "blood of Christ" are not specifically mentioned in Rom 10 but that does not make them unnecessary) but rather the context is stressing obedience over physical descent in that "whosoever (Jew or Gentile) shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" again, physical birth does not matter. Yet the Jews would not obey " All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.", the Jews were lost for they would not submit/obey the righteousness (commands) of God (Romans 10:3).