Phariseeism in the Modern Church

[shepherdsword]

a good example

Pr 26:4-5
Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

next verse:

Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

being led by The Lord is the only way to know which one to apply.

 

[amigo de christo]

How revealing! We read into it what we need to. Just like the way people read the bible to hijack grace and salvation to serve their own selfish needs.

there you go again with the word SELF ish .
But it aint me pointing to self and putting the HORSE into the cart epi . NO SIR , I HONOR JESUS
by saying ITS DIRE NECESSARY to have beleived on HIM .
Your horse in the carts DISHONORS THE SON and make believes as if one dont have to beleive GOD who testified on the SON epi .
Seems as usual you the one guilty of what you be accusing us of doing .

 

[amigo de christo]

a good example

Pr 26:4-5
Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

next verse:

Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

being led by The Lord is the only way to know which one to apply.

only a fool would dishonor the SON Whom GOD did send .
ONly a fool would call GOD A LIAR by not BLEIEVING the testmony HE gave of the SON .
THus only a foolish one would put the HORSE IN THE CART . let us keep that in mind .
GOD , HIS DESIRE is THAT WE HONOR THE SON , and callling GOD and CHRIST a liar , DONT SOUND LIKE HONORING HIM TO ME .
SO i shudder in terror for those who go after those who DO REMIND US about the DIRE NEED TO BELIEVE ON JESUS and what HE DID for us . But mr horse in the cart DISHONORS the SON by preaching UNBLEIEF is okay .
YOU do realize that if one fails to BELIEVE THE TESTIMONY that GOD gave of the SON
they aint carrying no cross , BUT CALL GOD A LIAR and refuse to preach the dire necessity TO HAVE to first
BELEIVE ON HE WHO WAS CRUCFIED ON that CROSS for our sins
and was RAISED AGAIN Three days later for our JUSTIFICATION . OH YEAH WE GOT TO BELEIVE .
IN fact if one believes not they call GOD a liar . IN fact if one beleives NOT on JESUS THE ChRIST
they have NO TRUTH IN THEM . as JESUS well said himself .

 

[amigo de christo]

a good example

Pr 26:4-5
Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

next verse:

Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

being led by The Lord is the only way to know which one to apply.

AND NEITHER THE FATHER the SON or THE SPIRIT leads us into UNBELIEF .
BUT TESTIFY AS ONE on THE SAVOIR JESUS THE CHRIST and the aboslute dire need for to repent and believe on HIM .
TO observe ALL THINGS HE did teach . INCLUDING the dir ewarnings HE g ave to those who did fail to BELIEVE ON HIM .
Someone been lying to the christains and to the world , the inclusive god has been . Who is none other than satan .
WE better all be on gaurd and keep the FAITH IN CHRIST FIRM TO THE END my friends
and let none be moved away by a inclusive god and its NON CHRIST PONTING TOO LIE .

 

[Episkopos]

there you go again with the word SELF ish .
But it aint me pointing to self and putting the HORSE into the cart epi . NO SIR , I HONOR JESUS

Lip-service but wrong spirited.

by saying ITS DIRE NECESSARY to have beleived on HIM .

More lip-service.

Your horse in the carts DISHONORS THE SON and make believes as if one dont have to beleive GOD who testified on the SON epi .
Seems as usual you the one guilty of what you be accusing us of doing .

I don't do lip-service with pretenders.

 

[MostlyConfused]

Every cult is unbalanced and champions either one aspect of truth or another...accepting only half-truths and lies. But these who love the truth seek out the balance.

For example righteousness works by BOTH faith and works. Whereas holiness is only by faith since no one can overcome sin by human means.

Then there is the INCLUSIVITY created by mercy...and the EXCLUSIVITY of glory. No one that I know of can see that. But when these things are presented to the wise and pure of heart..they begin to understand. It is the wicked heart that refuses wisdom and truth.

But for some, who live righteously toward others, by the law written in their hearts, but without faith, it is only works. Is that correct?

 

[Episkopos]

But for some, who live righteously toward others, by the law written in their hearts, but without faith, it is only works. Is that correct?

Works? What kind of works? Paul is not very specific about faith, laws or works.

But DOING righteousness is doing good works. What we can't do is justify ourselves by our works. Neither can we justify ourselves by our beliefs...which has reached epidemic proportions in the modern church.

The righteous are saved by their works. Unless their human faith translates into works of righteousness, then their faith can't save them. Faith without works is dead....for the righteous.

The holy are saved by grace through faith. They enter into holiness by faith alone, since no work can get someone to be translated into the heavenly realm of the Spirit. ONLY FAITH can do that. Without faith it is impossible to please God and be translated into the higher walk that is according to grace from heaven.

 

[MostlyConfused]

Works? What kind of works?

The works you were talking about when you said “righteousness is by faith AND works...?”

One without faith but just following conscience and heart wouldn’t be trying to justify themselves “into heaven” (whatever that even means.)

 

[shepherdsword]

But for some, who live righteously toward others, by the law written in their hearts, but without faith, it is only works. Is that correct?

This is where I veer off course with Epi. The law in our hearts is to love God with all our heart and our neighbor as ourself. How can that work without faith?

Gal 5:6
For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
It seems that love will have faith. If not how about this?

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Without faith how can we please God?

 

[MostlyConfused]

This is where I veer off course with Epi. The law in our hearts is to love God with all our heart and our neighbor as ourself. How can that work without faith?

Gal 5:6
For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
It seems that love will have faith. If not how about this?

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Without faith how can we please God?

Unbelievers can show they have Gods’ law written on their hearts, a law unto themselves.

i think you mix holiness with righteousness…sort of. I was talking about those without faith but who treat others righteously.

 

[MostlyConfused]

Unbelievers can show they have Gods’ law written on their hearts, a law unto themselves.

i think you mix holiness with righteousness…sort of. I was talking about those without faith but who treat others righteously.

You can’t hold them to a holy standard. Have YOU hit that holy standard?

 

[shepherdsword]

Unbelievers can show they have Gods’ law written on their hearts, a law unto themselves.

It's not unbelievers but gentiles and not faith they are missing but the law, who are a law unto themselves:

Ro 2:14
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

I don't see Paul saying that they were justified without faith.

 

[MostlyConfused]

Are unbelievers and gentiles a different thing….?

I don’t think I buy all that you said.…they don’t have the law but they believe in God who wrote the law?

 

[Episkopos]

The works you were talking about when you said “righteousness is by faith AND works...?”

One without faith but just following conscience and heart wouldn’t be trying to justify themselves “into heaven” (whatever that even means.)

Everybody believes something...what is right and true. Some people do what is right without having any kind of faith unless sees that FAITHFULNESS is also faith. Both words are the same in both Greek and Hebrew.

But in English these are separate words...faith meaning beliefs and trust...whereas faithfulness mean obedience. Both attributes are in the word for faith...but we have separated them. So then a righteous man OBEYS the law of God without knowing it. He does it because it is right.

Is this by faith or faithfulness? I would say faithfulness. The faith portion of the meaning I would reserve for what is toward God.

 

[MostlyConfused]

Everybody believes something...what is right and true. Some people do what is right without having any kind of faith unless sees that FAITHFULNESS is also faith. Both words are the same in both Greek and Hebrew.

But in English these are separate words...faith meaning beliefs and trust...whereas faithfulness mean obedience. Both attributes are in the word for faith...but we have separated them. So then a righteous man OBEYS the law of God without knowing it. He does it because it is right.

Is this by faith or faithfulness? I would say faithfulness. The faith portion of the meaning I would reserve for what is toward God.

That seems to fit the parable which, to me, appears to have puzzled people having no idea they ever saw Him.

 

[shepherdsword]

Are unbelievers and gentiles a different thing….?

I don’t think I buy all that you said.…they don’t have the law but they believe in God who wrote the law?

Ro 3:29-31
Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

The scripture is pretty clear on how the law is established through faith, by both gentiles and jews. However, you don't have to buy what I am saying. Who am I to teach anyone? I am just offering up what I see.

 

[MostlyConfused]

I would say faithfulness.

Yes, faithfulness to what is written on their hearts. I think that’s right.

 

[MostlyConfused]

Ro 3:29-31
Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

The scripture is pretty clear on how the law is established through faith, by both gentiles and jews. However, you don't have to buy what I am saying. Who am I to teach anyone? I am just offering up what I see.

He was not talking about unbelievers there though, was he? It reads to me like they were non Jewish believers.

 

[shepherdsword]

Yes, faithfulness to what is written on their hearts. I think that’s right.

yes as in "full of faith" that's what faithfulness means

 

[shepherdsword]

He was not talking about unbelievers there though, was he? It reads to me like they were non Jewish believers.

He wasn't talking about unbelievers being a law unto themselves either...those were gentiles without the law.