Poll. Will we be judged when we die?

[PinSeeker]

Regarding Gal 2:7-9
Who are you in those verses ?

I've said several times I'm a Gentile.

Who is the Apostle to teach you the Gospel ?

All of them. <smile> They all preached God's Word, after all...

You seem to unable to answer simple questions so let me help you

None needed. I could, but I will not answer them the way you want me to... Sam I am. I would not do it in a house, or with a mouse. I would not do it in a box or with a fox. I would not do it, Sam I am... Because to do so would be... yeah, way, way to simple, and wrong-headed.

I am the gentile/heathen in those verses... Paul is the Apostle to teach me the Gospel

Ah yeah, so nothing Peter, or John, or James, or any of the others had or has any relevance to you. Yeah, okay, I mean you're welcome to your own simple thoughts, for sure. You do you, man. <smile>

See, so ez :)

<chuckles>

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Dryhn]

I've said several times I'm a Gentile.


All of them. <smile> They all preached God's Word, after all...


None needed. I could, but I will not answer them the way you want me to... Sam I am. I would not do it in a house, or with a mouse. I would not do it in a box or with a fox. I would not do it, Sam I am... Because to do so would be... yeah, way, way to simple, and wrong-headed.


Ah yeah, so nothing Peter, or John, or James, or any of the others had or has any relevance to you. Yeah, okay, I mean you're welcome to your own simple thoughts, for sure. You do you, man. <smile>


<chuckles>

Grace and peace to you.

Good onya Gentile, now what are the Gospel verses that your Christ selected Apostle wrote that teaches how you are saved ?

Just the verses P, can you do that ?

 

[PinSeeker]

Good onya Gentile...

, now what are the Gospel verses that your Christ selected Apostle wrote that teaches how you are saved ? Just the verses P, can you do that ?

Well now this is a little different subject. Yes I can, of course, but I'll just say the ones exactly like the verses where John, Peter, and James say the same thing, but you choose to ignore because they are somehow not relevant to you for some reason.

Go away, dude. Grace and peace to you.

 

[Dryhn]

Well now this is a little different subject. Yes I can, of course, but I'll just say the ones exactly like the verses where John, Peter, and James say the same thing, but you choose to ignore because they are somehow not relevant to you for some reason.

Go away, dude. Grace and peace to you.

Very good DUDE <smile> <giggle> <roll on floor laughing>

 

[Dryhn]

Well now this is a little different subject. Yes I can, of course, but I'll just say the ones exactly like the verses where John, Peter, and James say the same thing, but you choose to ignore because they are somehow not relevant to you for some reason.

Go away, dude. Grace and peace to you.

like the verses where John, Peter, and James say the same thing
List the saving Gospel verses that the 12 teach that are the EXACT same that Paul teaches - Gal 1:11-12, 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13
I'm looking forward to it <smile> <giggle>

 

[RandyDawson]

All of them. <smile> They all preached God's Word, after all...

He might be one of those guys that say we are to ignore everyone but Paul.
Some apparently have made Paul in to an idol like the catholics made mary into an idol.

I wonder if they pray to Paul too asking him to put in a good word for them with the Lord

 

[Dryhn]

He might be one of those guys that say we are to ignore everyone but Paul.
Some apparently have made Paul in to an idol like the catholics made mary into an idol.

I wonder if they pray to Paul too asking him to put in a good word for them with the Lord

Gal 2:7-9
Who are you ?
Who is the apostle to teach you ?

 

[Earburner]

John 3:18
18 He that believeth on him is NOT condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned ALREADY, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[PinSeeker]

John 3:18
18 He that believeth on him is NOT condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned ALREADY, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

This is not speaking of the judgment event, per se, Earburner, but specifically condemnation... and pointing to what the result will be in the final judgment for the one who does not come to believe in the name of Jesus... and also says nothing about whether believers will be judged in the final Judgment when Christ executes it at the end of this age, after His return. All will be judged according to what they have done. For our part as believers, we know now that we are no longer under this condemnation (Romans 8:1), and in the final Judgment, we will... pass... <smile> ...as we see in Matthew 25:31-40, but it will not really be on our own merit but Christ's, because we are in Christ Jesus.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Earburner]

This is not speaking of the judgment event, per se, Earburner, but specifically condemnation... and pointing to what the result will be in the final judgment for the one who does not come to believe in the name of Jesus... and also says nothing about whether believers will be judged in the final Judgment when Christ executes it at the end of this age, after His return. All will be judged according to what they have done. For our part as believers, we know now that we are no longer under this condemnation (Romans 8:1), and in the final Judgment, we will... pass... <smile> ...as we see in Matthew 25:31-40, but it will not really be on our own merit but Christ's, because we are in Christ Jesus.

Grace and peace to you.

Since ALL are condemned unto eternal death
ALREADY (John 3:18), it stands to reason that there is only ONE judgment to deliver us unto Eternal Life, and that is through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Therefore, if you have ALREADY appeared before the judgment seat of Christ (2 Cor. 5:10), for the Gift of God's deliverance of yourself from eternal death, for what other need is there of any further judgment? Personally, I cannot think of any REWARD that is greater than or is equal to that of the Gift of Eternal Life.

 

[PinSeeker]

Since ALL are condemned unto eternal death
ALREADY (John 3:18)...

We all are, in our natural state, before we are born again of the Spirit. This is the result of Adam's fall in Genesis 3. And this is a judgment placed on all creation (Romans 5:12), as opposed to a blessing, but one we are freed from when we are born again. From that point on there is no more condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1), and we are blessed to share in the first resurrection (Revelation 20:5). The final Judgement will take place when Christ returns, and all will be judged according to what they have done (Romans 2:6-8):

"He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, He will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury."

it stands to reason that there is only ONE judgment to deliver us unto Eternal Life, and that is through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

No, that's a blessing, in this life... God's grace, in which He has declared us righteous in Christ, imputed Christ's righteousness to us, by His grace. And this ensures that we will stand in the final Judgment, when Jesus returns at the end of the age. On Jesus's right, as opposed to His left, in His graphic portrayal of the final Judgment in Matthew 25:31-46. It will happen...

Therefore, if you have ALREADY appeared before the judgment seat of Christ (2 Cor. 5:10)

Let's back up just a bit, Earburner. Here's that passage in 1 Corinthians 5... verses through 10, from the English Standard version. Paul writes:

So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, for we walk by faith, not by sight. Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord. So whether we are at home or away, we make it our aim to please him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.

How do you even possibly read that bolded part as past tense, as Paul even suggesting that's something that's already happened for us? He neither said nor intimated any such thing... neither here, nor in Romans 2:5-8 (cited above), nor anywhere... nor anyone... else. Precisely the opposite. Maybe you think he was wrong...? <smile>

for the Gift of God's deliverance of yourself from eternal death, for what other need is there of any further judgment?

There's been no judgment as yet.

Personally, I cannot think of any REWARD that is greater than or is equal to that of the Gift of Eternal Life.

Absolutely. We have the guarantee of it now. And we will have it in full later, in the age to come, eternity. But we will all be judged according to what we have done. Those in "the congregation of the righteous" (Psalm 1), those on Jesus's right, the sheep (Matthew 25:33a) will stand in the Judgment (Psalm 1). Those on His left, the goats (Matthew 25:33:b) "will not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous..." (Psalm 1), and as a result of the final Judgment will... depart... will go away into eternal punishment (Matthew 25:46)... <shudder>

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Earburner]

We all are, in our natural state, before we are born again of the Spirit. This is the result of Adam's fall in Genesis 3. And this is a judgment placed on all creation (Romans 5:12), as opposed to a blessing, but one we are freed from when we are born again. From that point on there is no more condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1), and we are blessed to share in the first resurrection (Revelation 20:5). The final Judgement will take place when Christ returns, and all will be judged according to what they have done (Romans 2:6-8):

"He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, He will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury."


No, that's a blessing, in this life... God's grace, in which He has declared us righteous in Christ, imputed Christ's righteousness to us, by His grace. And this ensures that we will stand in the final Judgment, when Jesus returns at the end of the age. On Jesus's right, as opposed to His left, in His graphic portrayal of the final Judgment in Matthew 25:31-46. It will happen...


Let's back up just a bit, Earburner. Here's that passage in 1 Corinthians 5... verses through 10, from the English Standard version. Paul writes:

So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, for we walk by faith, not by sight. Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord. So whether we are at home or away, we make it our aim to please him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.

How do you even possibly read that bolded part as past tense, as Paul even suggesting that's something that's already happened for us? He neither said nor intimated any such thing... neither here, nor in Romans 2:5-8 (cited above), nor anywhere... nor anyone... else. Precisely the opposite. Maybe you think he was wrong...? <smile>


There's been no judgment as yet.


Absolutely. We have the guarantee of it now. And we will have it in full later, in the age to come, eternity. But we will all be judged according to what we have done. Those in "the congregation of the righteous" (Psalm 1), those on Jesus's right, the sheep (Matthew 25:33a) will stand in the Judgment (Psalm 1). Those on His left, the goats (Matthew 25:33:b) "will not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous..." (Psalm 1), and as a result of the final Judgment will... depart... will go away into eternal punishment (Matthew 25:46)... <shudder>

Grace and peace to you.

No. From the Amillennial point of view, there has been a judgment already. We who are Born again, are already participants/recipients of the Gift of Eternal Life, aka the first resurrection, who is Jesus. However, we are still in waiting to be made immortal upon Jesus' return. 1John 5:11-13.

Please notice the simplicity of that truth in the scripture you posted. There are only TWO "works" which shall deliver only TWO "rewards".
"He will render to each one according to his works:
A. to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, He will give eternal life;
B. but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury."

 

[PinSeeker]

From the Amillennial point of view, there has been a judgment already.

Earburner, I'm very much amillennial in my eschatological understanding, and that's not true. There has been, however, a justification given to us, which is a once-and-for-all declaration of righteousness in Christ ~ not a judgment ~ pronounced upon us by God. For us who are born again, this a past event.

And again, in Revelation 20 terms... because that's where you are whether you mean to be or not... we are now sharing in the first resurrection and are thus blessed by God (Revelation 20), because we are born again... by God's grace saved⁠, and raised up with Christ and seated with Christ in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus (Ephesians 2). This is our present position and status, and our future is absolutely secured.

The final Judgment ~ the separating of the wheat from the tares, the righteous from the wicked, the sheep from the goats; any of these will do ~ and the judging of all according to what they have done is still yet to come.

We who are Born again, are already participants/recipients of the Gift of Eternal Life, aka the first resurrection, who is Jesus. However, we are still in waiting to be made immortal upon Jesus' return. 1John 5:11-13.

Right, I agree. But this is because of our justification, and or being imputed the righteousness of Christ. Thus when we, along with the unregenerate, those who are not in Christ, are judged according to what we have done, we will "stand" in this final Judgment, which, as I said, is still yet future.

Please notice the simplicity of that truth in the scripture you posted.

Ah, 'simple.' Well, I agree that it is simple, but not simplistic. <smile> Or anything different than what it simply ~ plainly ~ indicates, which was my point.

There are only TWO "works" which shall deliver only TWO "rewards".
"He will render to each one according to his works:
A. to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, He will give eternal life;
B. but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury."

I'm really not sure what you're trying to say here... <chuckles>

As for works, they are either a) honored by God or b) not honored by God ~ a) honored by God because they are done by those created for honorable use, God's elect, those in Christ (Romans 8-9), or b) not honored by God because they are not done because those folks are not in Christ.

As for "rewards" ~ which I would rather term 'outcomes,' or 'consequences,' or 'effects,' or maybe 'results.' Concerning the final Judgment, yes, there are two, and they are opposite each other. They are rendered by God ~ Jesus, of course, Who will preside over the final Judgment, again, according to their works (see above). And yes, one is much more favorable than the other.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[RandyDawson]

John 3:18
18 He that believeth on him is NOT condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned ALREADY, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Good verse. Now all you gotta do is define when it means to believe on Him.

The Lord said in the Book of James that the devil believes too, so just believing God exists is meaningless because even devils believe that.

The Lord says through James that faith without action is not saving faith.

 

[Earburner]

Earburner, I'm very much amillennial in my eschatological understanding, and that's not true. There has been, however, a justification given to us, which is a once-and-for-all declaration of righteousness in Christ ~ not a judgment ~ pronounced upon us by God. For us who are born again, this a past event.

And again, in Revelation 20 terms... because that's where you are whether you mean to be or not... we are now sharing in the first resurrection and are thus blessed by God (Revelation 20), because we are born again... by God's grace saved⁠, and raised up with Christ and seated with Christ in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus (Ephesians 2). This is our present position and status, and our future is absolutely secured.

The final Judgment ~ the separating of the wheat from the tares, the righteous from the wicked, the sheep from the goats; any of these will do ~ and the judging of all according to what they have done is still yet to come.


Right, I agree. But this is because of our justification, and or being imputed the righteousness of Christ. Thus when we, along with the unregenerate, those who are not in Christ, are judged according to what we have done, we will "stand" in this final Judgment, which, as I said, is still yet future.


Ah, 'simple.' Well, I agree that it is simple, but not simplistic. <smile> Or anything different than what it simply ~ plainly ~ indicates, which was my point.


I'm really not sure what you're trying to say here... <chuckles>

As for works, they are either a) honored by God or b) not honored by God ~ a) honored by God because they are done by those created for honorable use, God's elect, those in Christ (Romans 8-9), or b) not honored by God because they are not done because those folks are not in Christ.

As for "rewards" ~ which I would rather term 'outcomes,' or 'consequences,' or 'effects,' or maybe 'results.' Concerning the final Judgment, yes, there are two, and they are opposite each other. They are rendered by God ~ Jesus, of course, Who will preside over the final Judgment, again, according to their works (see above). And yes, one is much more favorable than the other.

Grace and peace to you.

By adding "steps" and "conditions" to be accomplished and/or met , Religion puts the salvation of the "repentant thief on the cross" to shame. According to him, the salvation of God through faith in Christ Jesus is NOT complicated. He simply requested to be "remembered", which is a direct reference to Malachi 3:16-18.

 

[Earburner]

Good verse. Now all you gotta do is define when it means to believe on Him.

The Lord said in the Book of James that the devil believes too, so just believing God exists is meaningless because even devils believe that.

The Lord says through James that faith without action is not saving faith.

Having faith in Christ is the believer's work for the Gift of God's salvation.
John 11:26 And whosoever liveth AND believeth IN me shall never die. Believest thou this?

 

[RandyDawson]

Having faith in Christ is the believer's work for the Gift of God's salvation.
John 11:26 And whosoever liveth AND believeth IN me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Yeah but the work is more about submitting to Him allowing the Holy Spirit to live in us.
He's the One actually doing the work by the Holy Spirit.

We are to turn away from walking after the flesh and instead walk in the Spirit being led by the Spirit which is always based on God's Word of course.

It's important to make this distinction because some may actually be trying to be good in their own strength apart from submitting to the Spirit of God and His Word.

 

[Earburner]

Yeah but the work is more about submitting to Him allowing the Holy Spirit to live in us.
He's the One actually doing the work by the Holy Spirit.

We are to turn away from walking after the flesh and instead walk in the Spirit being led by the Spirit which is always based on God's Word of course.

It's important to make this distinction because some may actually be trying to be good in their own strength apart from submitting to the Spirit of God and His Word.

I agree!
Jesus, to alot of professing Christians, is a role model to be copied, making no connection of how one is guided by the Holy Spirit, if He is even within them. Baptism, by water alone, saves no one.

 

[PinSeeker]

By adding "steps" and "conditions" to be accomplished and/or met , Religion puts the salvation of the "repentant thief on the cross" to shame. According to him, the salvation of God through faith in Christ Jesus is NOT complicated. He simply requested to be "remembered"

Um, I don't disagree with what you say here, really, but... who's "Religion"...? Are you referring to another poster here, or... Or maybe you're differentiating between "religion" and true Christianity, but... Yeah, meh. <smile>

, which is a direct reference to Malachi 3:16-18

Do you think the thief crucified on Jesus's right was referring to Malachi 3? If so, that I would strongly disagree with. In what He says... or rather his simple request, we see his belief in Christ, which is a product of the faith he's been given.

Having faith in Christ is the believer's work for the Gift of God's salvation.

This is absolutely untrue, even just by definition. This we know: "faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen" (Hebrews 11:1). Who do you think that assurance and conviction comes from, Earburner? Ourselves? If so, that's no assurance at all, but only something along the lines of wishful thinking.

No, this faith comes from outside of us... is given to us by God, just as Paul says in Ephesians 2: ~ "God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ⁠ ~ by grace you have been saved ~ and raised us up with Him and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages He might show the immeasurable riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works..."

What you're doing here, Earburner ~ albeit unintentionally, I guess ~ is:

1. making faith out to be a work of man
2. making man out to be at least partially responsible for his own salvation... and thus himself praiseworthy
3. making God's grace, His unmerited favor, out to be something other than grace
4. adding ~ ironically, because of what you yourself railed against in your own post 175 above ~ "steps" and "conditions" to be accomplished and/or met in order to be saved

Salvation is of the Lord. As Jesus told Nicodemus, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God... Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit" (John 3:3-8) And as John said in John 1:13, we are "born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God."

John 11:26 And whosoever liveth AND believeth IN me shall never die. Believest thou this?

We believe, Earburner, because we have been born again and are at that point of God. If you say belief is a work of man, I absolutely agree, but it is (they are, regarding works) a product of, even the outward evidence of, our having been born again ~ by God ~ and the faith we've been given ~ again, by God Himself. James puts it well: "faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead... I will show you my faith by my works" (James 2:17:18).

Grace and peace to you.