Pope Makes Interesting Claim On Date Of Christ's Birth

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John_8:32

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While the date of December 25th has absolutely no historical validity to it, my understanding is that the year of Christ's birth was certain.
Not because of religious documentation, but the fact that historical Roman documents mention Christ, as well.

But since I am not a scriptural historian, I will have to defer...




http://www.telegraph...laims-Pope.html


Jesus was born years earlier than thought, claims Pope

The entire Christian calendar is based on a miscalculation, the Pope has declared, as he claims in a new book that Jesus was born several years earlier than commonly believed.

The 'mistake' was made by a sixth century monk known as Dionysius Exiguus or in English Dennis the Small, the 85-year-old pontiff claims in the book 'Jesus of Nazareth: The Infancy Narratives', published on Wednesday.

"The calculation of the beginning of our calendar – based on the birth of Jesus – was made by Dionysius Exiguus, who made a mistake in his calculations by several years," the Pope writes in the book, which went on sale around the world with an initial print run of a million copies.

"The actual date of Jesus's birth was several years before."

The assertion that the Christian calendar is based on a false premise is not new – many historians believe that Christ was born sometime between 7BC and 2BC.

But the fact that doubts over one of the keystones of Christian tradition have been raised by the leader of the world's one billion Catholics is striking.
Dennis the Small, who was born in Eastern Europe, is credited with being the 'inventor' of the modern calendar and the concept of teh Anno Domini ero.

He drew up the new system in part to distance it from the calendar in use at the time, which was based on the years since the reign of the Roman emperor Diocletian.
The emperor had persecuted Christians, so there was good reason to expunge him from the new dating system in favour of one inspired by the birth of Christ.

The monk's calendar became widely accepted in Europe after it was adopted by the Venerable Bede, the historian-monk, to date the events that he recounted in his Ecclesiastical History of the English People, which he completed in AD 731.
But exactly how Dennis calculated the year of Christ's birth is not clear and the Pope's claim that he made a mistake is a view shared by many scholars.

The Bible does not specify a date for the birth of Christ. The monk instead appears to have based his calculations on vague references to Jesus's age at the start of his ministry and the fact that he was baptised in the reign of the emperor Tiberius.
Christ's birth date is not the only controversy raised by the Pope in his new book – he also said that contrary to the traditional Nativity scene, there were no oxen, donkeys or other animals at Jesus's birth.
He also weighs in on the debate over Christ's birthplace, rejecting arguments by some scholars that he was born in Nazareth rather than Bethlehem.

John Barton, Professor of the Interpretation of the Holy Scripture at Oriel College, Oxford University, said most academics agreed with the Pope that the Christian calendar was wrong and that Jesus was born several years earlier than commonly thought, probably between 6BC and 4BC.

"There is no reference to when he was born in the Bible - all we know is that he was born in the reign of Herod the Great, who died before 1AD," he told The Daily Telegraph. "It's been surmised for a very long time that Jesus was born before 1AD - no one knows for sure."

The idea that Christ was born on Dec 25 also has no basis in historical fact. "We don't even know which season he was born in. The whole idea of celebrating his birth during the darkest part of the year is probably linked to pagan traditions and the winter solstice."




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Actually, it can be demonstrated that Christ was born in the early fall from the scriptures. One can find the date to within a couple of weeks at most.
 
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aspen

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Why does it matter? We are celebrating the birth of Christ, not the day He was born.
 

tim_from_pa

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aspen2 said:
Why does it matter? We are celebrating the birth of Christ, not the day He was born.
Well, if you have to pick a day, then why not a Hebrew Feast Day since Christ (Yahshua) did everything by the feasts as they were shadows of things to come? Why connect Christ to a solstice festival?

It's the same with the Sabbath. Some Christians say that the day of the week does not matter. Fine, If we are going to be like Jehovah's Witnesses, then they have that right. They worship every day and different days of the week.

But.... that's NOT what I am seeing. Christians DO worship on a certain day, the Venerable Day of the Sun, Sunday. If I saw some worshipping on Tuesdays, some on Wednesdays, some on Fridays, I'd believe that the "day did not matter", but since I see mostly Sunday, I concluded the day DOES matter despite admissions to the contrary.

So, if we have to keep one day, what day does the bible say? The Sabbath Saturday.

Likewise, if we have to keep one day for Christ's birth, which is it? A feast day. I believe evidence shows it was on the Feast of Trumpets.

There. Now you have a day to keep usually in late September. Get a Jewish calendar and you can find what day is Rosh Hoshana every year if you have to celebrate a day.
 

epostle1

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Martin Luther Day is celebrated on October 31. Halloween. It is the same day as the Druid Samhain Day, also known as Saman or SATAN. But you don't find Catholics jumping on the pagan bandwagon over it. Pagans did not choose Dec. 25 to celebrate Christ's birth, Christians did, just as Druids did not choose Oct. 31 as Martin Luther Day.
 

Axehead

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kepha31 said:
Martin Luther Day is celebrated on October 31. Halloween. It is the same day as the Druid Samhain Day, also known as Saman or SATAN. But you don't find Catholics jumping on the pagan bandwagon over it. Pagans did not choose Dec. 25 to celebrate Christ's birth, Christians did, just as Druids did not choose Oct. 31 as Martin Luther Day.
There are a million ways to show that the RCC has allowed paganism into their "fold" and even encourages it.
 

dragonfly

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Martin Luther Day is celebrated on October 31. Halloween. It is the same day as the Druid Samhain Day, also known as Saman or SATAN. But you don't find Catholics jumping on the pagan bandwagon over it. Pagans did not choose Dec. 25 to celebrate Christ's birth, Christians did, just as Druids did not choose Oct. 31 as Martin Luther Day.

You're all about appearances, kepha. Truth in the inward parts may concern God, but it doesn't seem to interest you, at all.
 

Mungo

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Axehead said:
There are a million ways to show that the RCC has allowed paganism into their "fold" and even encourages it.
No it hasn't
 

Markseasigh

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Mungo said:
oh oh i know by lying about the snake, and saying it was satan and not just a snake!!!


Even though the Bible goes out of its way to say that it is just another beast of the field.
 

aspen

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prism said:
Either way, does the Pope not believe the bible?
I hope that is a rhetorical question like - is the Pope a Catholic?