POSTRIB RAPTURE. A BIBLE ONLY VIEW

[rebuilder 454]

If postrib rapture is a actual, factual Bible
Doctrine, convince me using a Bible, that it is true .
No name calling
No extra biblical dead men quotes from the early church.
No extra biblical anything.
No "pretrib is from hell"
No bible police, telling me or anyone else they are from Satan.
No weoponizing verses to try to use God's word to rebuke your opponent and paint someone as false and should be vaporized due to us being evil.

Lay it out with verses.

Use the Bible without any mention of the "error" of pretrib rapture.
Just pretend if you can actually do that, you will get $10,000 .
Should be real easy

Show us what you got.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Correction.
Pretrib rapture phrase is not off limits.
This experiment is for thoughtful use of that dynamic, not a go to to avoid an actual thoughtful Bible based debate showing the superiority of a postrib rapture.
IOW...no hiding behind demonizing postrib rapture to escape showing us how your deal is iron clad.

For example
You may want to exhibit how if y×y= c then so be it.
But I am curios, if it were up to you to convince anyone of your superior doctrine...if you could do it.
Iow " I read my bible and I changed over to the postrib rapture doctrine"
Really?
What verses?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Okay let's get started with the post tribulation Rapture Banner verse.
Matthew chapter 24 verse 31 or so, Jesus says after the tribulation he shall send his angels to gather the elect from one end of Heaven to the other.
That is the banner verse of the post tribulation Rapture Doctrine.
Maybe we can get this one in a factual dynamic at the very start.
Now in this verse Jesus is talking,and he says he's going to send his angels in the realm of Heaven and gather his elect.
That's exactly what it says.
So there's no mention of anyone being gathered from Earth (which is what we see in the actual rapture), we see Jesus coming to Earth and and he personally gathers his people.
So just in case anyone wants to try and make that say there is a post tribulation Rapture I'm bringing that verse up right from the start.
And since no post tribulation rapture adherent has commented as of yet, I thought we would just go ahead and do a little exegesis of that Banner verse.

...so nothing yet of a biblical postrib rapture.

 

[IndianaRob]

Okay let's get started with the post tribulation Rapture Banner verse.
Matthew chapter 24 verse 31 or so, Jesus says after the tribulation he shall send his angels to gather the elect from one end of Heaven to the other.
That is the banner verse of the post tribulation Rapture Doctrine.
Maybe we can get this one in a factual dynamic at the very start.
Now in this verse Jesus is talking,and he says he's going to send his angels in the realm of Heaven and gather his elect.
That's exactly what it says.
So there's no mention of anyone being gathered from Earth (which is what we see in the actual rapture), we see Jesus coming to Earth and and he personally gathers his people.
So just in case anyone wants to try and make that say there is a post tribulation Rapture I'm bringing that verse up right from the start.
And since no post tribulation rapture adherent has commented as of yet, I thought we would just go ahead and do a little exegesis of that Banner verse.

...so nothing yet of a biblical postrib rapture.

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

How do you see this verse being fulfilled?

What I mean is do you believe there will be angels in the sky blowing literal trumpets and then snatching up the elect from the earth and heaven?

 

[Keraz]

Matthew chapter 24 verse 31 or so, Jesus says after the tribulation he shall send his angels to gather the elect from one end of Heaven to the other.

I note you Capitalize the word heaven.
You do that to support the wrong idea that those people gathered will come from Heaven, Gods dwelling place.
That is wrong because the Greek word translated as heaven, is 'ouranos', meaning the sky. our atmosphere, or the visible universe. NOT any spiritual place at all.
You cunningly omitted from the four winds..... Do you think the Gods Heaven has wind and a weather system?

I suggest to you that it would be better to prove a pre-trib rapture, than to attempt to shoot down other beliefs.
You have a very supercilious attitude, as though you hold the high ground of truth. Let me inform you, you don't and the Day is coming when you and all who have failed to understand Gods Plans for His people, will be shocked and not know which way to turn, Luke 21:25-26

 

[rebuilder 454]

It is OK with me if it is not capitalized.
Makes no difference at all.
I am on my phone, so many words will be imperfect.
( as opposed to your inferred conspiracy)

 

[rebuilder 454]

But this thread is intended for postribbers to shine.
To be given the opportunity to express what should willingly exude from them.
A chance to show their bible knowledge.
Why would you want them robed of a great opportunity?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Rev

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

How do you see this verse being fulfilled?

What I mean is do you believe there will be angels in the sky blowing literal trumpets and then snatching up the elect from the earth and heaven?

Rev 19.
The saints are GATHERED in HEAVEN and assembled on white horses.
Mat 24 :31 the saints are gathered by angels in heaven.
Coincidence?
Nope

 

[rebuilder 454]

A thread dedicated to the postrib rapture. The most popular view in Christianity.
Nobody has a verse to back it up.

 

[jeffweeder]

A thread dedicated to the postrib rapture. The most popular view in Christianity.
Nobody has a verse to back it up.

Where to start. There are so many.
Lets start with......


Job 14
10
“But [the brave, strong] man must die and lie face down;
Man breathes his last, and where is he?
11
“As water evaporates from the sea,
And a river drains and dries up,
12
So man lies down and does not rise [again].
Until the heavens are no longer,
The dead will not awake nor be raised from their sleep.
13
“Oh, that You would hide me in Sheol (the nether world, the place of the dead),
That You would conceal me until Your wrath is past,
That You would set a definite time and then remember me [and in Your lovingkindness imprint me on your heart]!
14
“If a man dies, will he live again?
I will wait all the days of my struggle
Until my change and release will come.


Did Jesus have this scripture in mind when he said this....,

Lk 21
33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
34 “But be on guard, so that your hearts are not weighed down and depressed with the giddiness of debauchery and the nausea of self-indulgence and the worldly worries of life, and then that day [when the Messiah returns] will not come on you suddenly like a trap; 35 for it will come upon all those who live on the face of all the earth.

JN 6
38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but to do the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but that I [give new life and] raise it up at the last day. 40 For this is My Father’s will and purpose, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him [as Savior] will have eternal life, and I will raise him up [from the dead] on the last day.”

Does the tribulation occur before the heavens pass away on the last day?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Where to start. There are so many.
Lets start with......


Job 14
10
“But [the brave, strong] man must die and lie face down;
Man breathes his last, and where is he?
11
“As water evaporates from the sea,
And a river drains and dries up,
12
So man lies down and does not rise [again].
Until the heavens are no longer,
The dead will not awake nor be raised from their sleep.
13
“Oh, that You would hide me in Sheol (the nether world, the place of the dead),
That You would conceal me until Your wrath is past,
That You would set a definite time and then remember me [and in Your lovingkindness imprint me on your heart]!
14
“If a man dies, will he live again?
I will wait all the days of my struggle
Until my change and release will come.


Did Jesus have this scripture in mind when he said this....,

Lk 21
33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
34 “But be on guard, so that your hearts are not weighed down and depressed with the giddiness of debauchery and the nausea of self-indulgence and the worldly worries of life, and then that day [when the Messiah returns] will not come on you suddenly like a trap; 35 for it will come upon all those who live on the face of all the earth.

JN 6
38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but to do the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but that I [give new life and] raise it up at the last day. 40 For this is My Father’s will and purpose, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him [as Savior] will have eternal life, and I will raise him up [from the dead] on the last day.”

Does the tribulation occur before the heavens pass away on the last day?

The challenge is to provide a postrib rapture.
We all know there is trouble in every lifetime.
Each man gets a share of trouble.
Some men go through life, their entire lifetime in America, and died, and never had much tribulation at all. Yet ,there they are in heaven, enjoying benefits, Beauty, and standing in the presence of the Lord and such. I guess God himself will have to give them an apology for not tying them to a tree and bull whipping them until they scream, which is the mentality of some erroneous Doctrine , that the body of Christ goes through the tribulation. The fact of the matter is ,in Revelation 13 (and more than one verse), it says the Antichrist is empowered to overcome the Saints ..and it says all receive the mark... all worship the Antichrist on the planet. So any hope of a post tribulation rapture that puts the church through the tribulation is debunked by Revelation 13 alone. So we've had a couple of comments but , as we can see, nothing at all from the Bible showing up post tribulation rapture

 

[jeffweeder]

The challenge is to provide a postrib rapture.
We all know there is trouble in every lifetime.
Each man gets a share of trouble.
Some men go through life, their entire lifetime in America, and died, and never had much tribulation at all. Yet ,there they are in heaven, enjoying benefits, Beauty, and standing in the presence of the Lord and such. I guess God himself will have to give them an apology for not tying them to a tree and bull whipping them until they scream, which is the mentality of some erroneous Doctrine , that the body of Christ goes through the tribulation. The fact of the matter is ,in Revelation 13 (and more than one verse), it says the Antichrist is empowered to overcome the Saints ..and it says all receive the mark... all worship the Antichrist on the planet. So any hope of a post tribulation rapture that puts the church through the tribulation is debunked by Revelation 13 alone. So we've had a couple of comments but , as we can see, nothing at all from the Bible showing up post tribulation rapture

Does the tribulation occur before the heavens pass away on the last day?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Where to start. There are so many.
Lets start with......


Job 14
10
“But [the brave, strong] man must die and lie face down;
Man breathes his last, and where is he?
11
“As water evaporates from the sea,
And a river drains and dries up,
12
So man lies down and does not rise [again].
Until the heavens are no longer,
The dead will not awake nor be raised from their sleep.
13
“Oh, that You would hide me in Sheol (the nether world, the place of the dead),
That You would conceal me until Your wrath is past,
That You would set a definite time and then remember me [and in Your lovingkindness imprint me on your heart]!
14
“If a man dies, will he live again?
I will wait all the days of my struggle
Until my change and release will come.


Did Jesus have this scripture in mind when he said this....,

Lk 21
33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
34 “But be on guard, so that your hearts are not weighed down and depressed with the giddiness of debauchery and the nausea of self-indulgence and the worldly worries of life, and then that day [when the Messiah returns] will not come on you suddenly like a trap; 35 for it will come upon all those who live on the face of all the earth.

JN 6
38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but to do the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but that I [give new life and] raise it up at the last day. 40 For this is My Father’s will and purpose, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him [as Savior] will have eternal life, and I will raise him up [from the dead] on the last day.”

Does the tribulation occur before the heavens pass away on the last day?

There are 2 resurrections.
One pretrib at the pretrib rapture that Jesus taught.
The other at the gwt judgement.

Your smoking gun is "last day"?

 

[jeffweeder]

There are 2 resurrections.
One pretrib at the pretrib rapture that Jesus taught.
The other at the gwt judgement.

Your smoking gun is "last day"?

Whether your dead in Christ or living, Our resurrection and change (glorification) happens when the heavens are no more. Job 14.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Postrib cliche's.
" last day"
"Trump"
"Last trump"
"Trumpets"

In the postrib rapture doctrine, pretrib rapture verses of the bible vanish in their minds.
Those verses are never factored in.
We know there are 2 resurrections.
Part of this threads purposes is to point out that we can take a word or phrase from the Bible, torture the context, add "commentary", and make the Bible say whatever we desire.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Whether your dead in Christ or living, Our resurrection and change (glorification) happens when the heavens are no more. Job 14.

Then Jesus is mistaken.
He said the rapture occurs In normal life and commerce. (said it twice)
The dead in Christ are raised at the pretrib rapture, in 1 thes 4

 

[rebuilder 454]

Does the tribulation occur before the heavens pass away on the last day?

Is the antichrist given power to overcome the saints and kill all refusing the mark, before the heavens are no more?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Where to start. There are so many.
Lets start with......


Job 14
10
“But [the brave, strong] man must die and lie face down;
Man breathes his last, and where is he?
11
“As water evaporates from the sea,
And a river drains and dries up,
12
So man lies down and does not rise [again].
Until the heavens are no longer,
The dead will not awake nor be raised from their sleep.
13
“Oh, that You would hide me in Sheol (the nether world, the place of the dead),
That You would conceal me until Your wrath is past,
That You would set a definite time and then remember me [and in Your lovingkindness imprint me on your heart]!
14
“If a man dies, will he live again?
I will wait all the days of my struggle
Until my change and release will come.


Did Jesus have this scripture in mind when he said this....,

Lk 21
33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
34 “But be on guard, so that your hearts are not weighed down and depressed with the giddiness of debauchery and the nausea of self-indulgence and the worldly worries of life, and then that day [when the Messiah returns] will not come on you suddenly like a trap; 35 for it will come upon all those who live on the face of all the earth.

JN 6
38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but to do the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but that I [give new life and] raise it up at the last day. 40 For this is My Father’s will and purpose, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him [as Savior] will have eternal life, and I will raise him up [from the dead] on the last day.”

Does the tribulation occur before the heavens pass away on the last day?

Thank you for your thoughtful post.
What a difference it makes for postribbers to get their views from God's word.

 

[jeffweeder]

Then Jesus is mistaken.
He said the rapture occurs In normal life and commerce. (said it twice)
The dead in Christ are raised at the pretrib rapture, in 1 thes 4

I like to quote what he said.

33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
34 “But be on guard, so that your hearts are not weighed down and depressed with the giddiness of debauchery and the nausea of self-indulgence and the worldly worries of life, and then that day [when the Messiah returns] will not come on you suddenly like a trap; 35 for it will come upon all those who live on the face of all the earth.

Matt 24
35 Heaven and earth [as now known] will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
36 “But of that [exact] day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son [in His humanity], but the Father alone. 37 For the coming of the Son of Man (the Messiah) will be just like the days of Noah. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the [very] day when Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not know or understand until the flood came and swept them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be [unexpected judgment].

 

[rebuilder 454]

If I had no knowledge of the Bible I would say Jeff has a point there, but the council of the Bible must be considered.
Thank you Jeff.