This doesn't follow at all. You're mixing apples and oranges and declaring it lemon pie. This confusion is precisely the basis of Bibliolatry.
Prayer and Worship Practice of the Early Church
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Behold
Well-Known Member
If you can't "follow" it, then you need to do this..
2 Timothy 2:15
"So, lets look at some "study"..
John 1.
And the WORD was God"
Notice..
"Jesus is the WORD made FLESH"
"God was manifested in the FLESH".
Now John 1:10 says that the world that was made by Jesus..and yet, didn't recognize Him.
Colossians 1:16, says that this same, MADE it ALL, and holds it together by HIS Power.
Whose?
"And God SAID... Let there BE".. and it all BECAME.
And Jesus is the WORD.
Now, post to me again, and i can show you more.
A Christian is still in the flesh and must still deal with this fact. But a Christian life should not still be a constant battle betwen the Holy Spirit and Satan. If it is, something is seriously amiss. The bulk of scholars agree that when Paul speaks of the "raging war" inside of him in Romans 7, he is speaking in the voice of an unsaved individual, not the voice of the Apostle Paul.
The height of this absurdity is the movement - I forget the name - where believers wail that they are plagued by "the demon of shopping," the "demon of ice cream," the "demon of golf," demons, demons, demons.
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I used to believe that our battle was NOT against flesh and blood.
Then I joined a CHRISTIAN forum. A real eye-opener. - LOL
Assuming everyone with a username is flesh and blood.
/
You can believe what you want, but you are walking in a field full of serpents. Let me show you what plagued Paul:
2 Corinthians 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. 8 Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me. 9 And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ’s sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong.
I think you are trying to blame me for what Satan does and how he works which is evil on your part.
1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.
Behold
Well-Known Member
The bulk of scholars needs to go fishing, is the reality.
See, in Rom 7, Paul was not having any issues at all....as by then He was saved a long time.
So, what he's doing is teaching....... He is showing what it means to try to "be righteous", in the flesh, vs, understanding being "made righteous" by God, through faith.
He's describing this inner turmoil that occurs when a believer does not understand : SALVATION
And if you continue to read what He's teaching, as it continues in other epistles.. you'll find that Paul's teaching concludes with ..
(paraphrase)..
"what i discovered was that all my SELF Righteousness, to try to perform for God, to try to be accepted by God, is DUNG">
"dung".
That is Philippians 3, that is one of the parts of the continuation of Paul's teaching on "self righteousness" that is the inner struggle that a believer has, when they are not correctly understanding being "made righteous" as the righteousness of God in Christ.
See, Paul explain many things about our salvation and the walk of faith.
For example... he discusses this "inner struggle" in Romans 7, that is "baby christian" struggle.
And He defines it more carefully in .
Hebrews 6:1.
No, really, I'm not. The point is not spiritual arrogance - "I'm so close to God that I don't have to concern myself with Evil at all." The point is confidence in God - "If I sincerely maintain a prayerful communion with God on my daily walk, fear of the demonic should be a minor concern. Every carnal thought. every stumble, isn't Satan." It never seems to occur to people that this obession with the demonic, this fear that we're walking in a field of serpents, is ITSELF a demonic deception that is hindering their relationship with God.
In my Southern Baptist days, I had friend named Tom who had been delivered from a life of addiction. He was a wonderful guy but was plagued with fears such as you express. He went forward LITERALLY EVERY SUNDAY to rededicate his life to Christ. The pastor finally took him aside and said, "You know, Tom, a Christian should not feel the need to rededicate his life every Sunday. We need to get you some counseling."
Gee, I don't think I'm blaming you at all. You seem extremely fragile in your convictions, and if maintaining constant vigilence against demons helps keep you on the path, then I guess that's fine.
You make some excellent and instructive points. They aren't the points you think you're making, and they aren't instructive in the way you intend, but they are nevertheless instructive in their own way.
Right, the hordes of NT scholars who have wrestled with Romans 7 need to go fishing and just listen to some anonymous goof on a internet forum calling himself @Behold. Ya think?
The majority view is that Romans 7 is Paul speaking in the voice of his pre-conversion experience, not describing what the life of a mature Christian is like or should be like.
What your posts - literally all of them - actually demonstrate is the incredible arrogance of characters, always of the fundie ilk, who think that only they have the true understanding of Christianity and that it is their personal mission to harangue other Christians about the error of their ways. Pretty much the opposite of what it seems to me Jesus was talking about - but, hey, enjoy that lemon pie!
@dev553344 deleted a post before I could quote it. The gist was that the "evil" in my posts was in accusing an "abused" person (dev) of being responsible for her own "abuse" (as opposed, I guess, to acknowledging that it is Satan and his minions who abuse her).
I've been blessed with the antithesis of an addictive personality. I'm not even vaguely predisposed toward a drug, alcohol, gambling or other addiction. I don't have to fight such temptations at all. (As a child of two alcoholic parents, I've been told by numerous doctors that I carry the "alcoholic gene" and must constantly be on guard. I appreciate their concern, but it's no concern to me and never has been.)
Those who do have addictive personalities have things going on inside their heads that I do not. The battle they fight doesn't just magically disappear when they become Christians. The was the issue with Tom, whom I describe in post #28. They may well see this as a constant battle against Satan. I don't think this perspective is helpful to a Christian walk - quite the contrary, in fact - but it may be unavoidable, at least for some period. Hopefully Tom isn't still rededicating his life every Sunday 50 years later.
And that's all I have to say about that. Now I'm taking an extended break because this forum has run its course for me. I may return, but not soon.
I've been blessed with the antithesis of an addictive personality. I'm not even vaguely predisposed toward a drug, alcohol, gambling or other addiction. I don't have to fight such temptations at all. (As a child of two alcoholic parents, I've been told by numerous doctors that I carry the "alcoholic gene" and must constantly be on guard. I appreciate their concern, but it's no concern to me and never has been.)
Those who do have addictive personalities have things going on inside their heads that I do not. The battle they fight doesn't just magically disappear when they become Christians. The was the issue with Tom, whom I describe in post #28. They may well see this as a constant battle against Satan. I don't think this perspective is helpful to a Christian walk - quite the contrary, in fact - but it may be unavoidable, at least for some period. Hopefully Tom isn't still rededicating his life every Sunday 50 years later.
And that's all I have to say about that. Now I'm taking an extended break because this forum has run its course for me. I may return, but not soon.
What gets me is throwing out valid scripture that is obviously there to warn people to not be fools in their prayer area with seeking God spiritually.
My first post was there to direct people out of meditation and more into works meet for repentance that can allow God to fill us with the Holy Spirit of service towards God. Meditation is not so important unless you are on a spiritual quest like John the Baptist or Jesus the Christ.
Notice in the following verses the tempter coming before the angels with Jesus:
Matthew 4:1 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, afterward He was hungry. 3 Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.”
4 But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ”
5 Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, 6 and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written:
‘He shall give His angels charge over you,’
and,
‘In their hands they shall bear you up,
Lest you dash your foot against a stone.’ ”
7 Jesus said to him, “It is written again, ‘You shall not tempt the Lord your God.’ ”
8 Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.”
10 Then Jesus said to him,“Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.’ ”
11 Then the devil left Him, and behold, angels came and ministered to Him.
My first post was there to direct people out of meditation and more into works meet for repentance that can allow God to fill us with the Holy Spirit of service towards God. Meditation is not so important unless you are on a spiritual quest like John the Baptist or Jesus the Christ.
Notice in the following verses the tempter coming before the angels with Jesus:
Matthew 4:1 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, afterward He was hungry. 3 Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.”
4 But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ”
5 Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, 6 and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written:
‘He shall give His angels charge over you,’
and,
‘In their hands they shall bear you up,
Lest you dash your foot against a stone.’ ”
7 Jesus said to him, “It is written again, ‘You shall not tempt the Lord your God.’ ”
8 Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.”
10 Then Jesus said to him,“Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.’ ”
11 Then the devil left Him, and behold, angels came and ministered to Him.
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Oh I could only select one thing you are funny and right but if you are into baking what is the recipe for peach pie that is my favorite!! hahaha
Following such forms or formulas may help a person who needs help in how to spend private time with God...
but I would be careful about advising a young person in Christ to go that way.
I have recently elsewhere posted my own way of talking to God, but I don't press anyone to go that way either
.https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/thoughts-on-christian-mysticism-and-contemplative-practice.61539/post-1787295
We should I believe start praying as Jesus suggested. When truly led by the Holy Spirit to expand this in some way then let us do so. In the interim:
| Mt 6:9 | After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. |
| Mt 6:10 | Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. |
| Mt 6:11 | Give us this day our daily bread. |
| Mt 6:12 | And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. |
| Mt 6:13 | And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. |
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Behold
Well-Known Member
Yes.
And you'd do yourself a favor if you are able to comprehend and realize that "scholarship" is paid for by money and anyone can buy it.
Even a unbeliever.
So, that is for you to understand.
Behold
Well-Known Member
That's true.
Christianity is not a Religion, and Prayer is not a formula.
Christianity is God come down to the Cross, to make it possible for ALL of us to become "one with God", forever......... and Prayer is first of all Praise and Thanksgiving.... and that is followed by needful requests.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Augustin56
Well-Known Member
The New Testament came FROM the Catholic Church, in case you weren't aware. At the Councils of Rome, Hippo, and Carthage in the late 4th century, the Catholic Church decided which books (the 27 we agree on) out of over 300 were worthy of being called Scripture. We all call that the New Testament today. The New Testament comes FROM Oral Tradition (oral teachings) of the Apostles, who passed them on to their successors the bishops, who have done likewise for 2000 years now. SOME of what was taught orally was written down (See John 21:25)
The only real "issues" that exist with the Catholic Church and the Bible is that the Catholic Church's consistent 2000 year teaching doesn't always agree with man-made, personal interpretations of the Bible by self-appointed Protestants. Protestantism came along in the 16th century or later (depending on your man-made denomination). And it's not a problem with the Catholic Church; it's a problem of personal interpretation, which St. Peter warns against in 2 Peter 1:20-21. And, I think it can be boiled down to a problem with authority. Who has authority? Authority is given, not taken. Christ gave His authority to teach, preach, and sanctify to His Church. He didn't set up a free-for-all, "Anybody wants my authority, hold up your hand! Okay, you're in!"
IF personal interpretation and the Protestant approach had any validity, there would be ONE Protestant denomination (not tens of thousands), all believing the same thing. But the opposite is true. For example, the Baptists claim that infant Baptism is invalid. Lutherans and Episcopaleans say it is valid. All read the same Bible and claim to be led by the same Holy Spirit, but come up with contradicting conclusions. They can't be all right, then.
Thanks for joining the discussion. Good to see you here.
I see it as all one thing, just interpretation. We have the Creeds to unite us on the essentials, after that there is freedom.
Do you want a GP doing your brain surgery?
I just wish to see us being more accepting of the diversity in the church (the Bride of Christ) support one another.
And I'm not terribly bothered by the contradictions. There are contradictions in the Bible. No wonder there are contradicting conclusions.
Basically NO ONE is right. No one has this all figured. Especially the Catholic Church. Have you seen the headlines? Wow.
/
Good. Too many Protestants have no idea where their Bible came from. They don't believe me, maybe they will believe you. - LOL
This is where we have some disagreement. Catholic interpretation is just as man-made as Protestant interpretation.
I see it as all one thing, just interpretation. We have the Creeds to unite us on the essentials, after that there is freedom.
No. I don't see it that way at all. I see the denominations as specialists like we see in medicine.
Do you want a GP doing your brain surgery?
I just wish to see us being more accepting of the diversity in the church (the Bride of Christ) support one another.
And I'm not terribly bothered by the contradictions. There are contradictions in the Bible. No wonder there are contradicting conclusions.
Basically NO ONE is right. No one has this all figured. Especially the Catholic Church. Have you seen the headlines? Wow.
/
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