Premillennialism contradicts scripture (1 Corinthians 15:50-54) by having mortal flesh and blood inheriting the kingdom of God when Jesus returns.

[Spiritual Israelite]

I showed you dont have to die to have eternal life there will be death until the new heavens and earth ..........flesh and blood can enter the kingdom on earth but not the heavenly kingdom
[Rev 21:4 KJV] 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

You continue to not address my argument. You have people inheriting eternal life when Jesus comes with His angels in the kingdom prepared for them from the foundation of the world with mortal bodies. So, you have people inheriting eternal life but then you have them later all dying because those with mortal bodies die. That does not make any sense and is contradictory. Please address that specifically.

 

[Doug]

You continue to not address my argument. You have people inheriting eternal life when Jesus comes with His angels in the kingdom prepared for them from the foundation of the world with mortal bodies. So, you have people inheriting eternal life but then you have them later all dying because those with mortal bodies die. That does not make any sense and is contradictory. Please address that specifically.

I have answered as best I can

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I have answered as best I can

Do you at least understand my point? I'm saying that you have believers who are said to inherit eternal life in the kingdom prepared for them from the foundation of the earth (Matt 25:34,46) inheriting a temporal kingdom with mortal bodies instead. How can someone inherit eternal life when Christ returns and end up dying later? That is not eternal life in that case. Do you see my point? I'm not asking if you agree with me or not, I'm just asking if you at least understand the point I'm making? Because, if you don't even understand my point, then you can't possibly address it.

 

[Doug]

Do you at least understand my point? I'm saying that you have believers who are said to inherit eternal life in the kingdom prepared for them from the foundation of the earth (Matt 25:34,46) inheriting a temporal kingdom with mortal bodies instead. How can someone inherit eternal life when Christ returns and end up dying later? That is not eternal life in that case. Do you see my point? I'm not asking if you agree with me or not, I'm just asking if you at least understand the point I'm making? Because, if you don't even understand my point, then you can't possibly address it.

I just dont see why you cant accept that there are two kingdoms and in the earthly kingdom there will be mortals. Christ will reign for a thousand years and Israel will lead the Gentiles to God.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I just dont see why you cant accept that there are two kingdoms and in the earthly kingdom there will be mortals.

Because scripture teaches no such thing. A person cannot inherit eternal life in a temporal earthly kingdom with a mortal body.

Christ will reign for a thousand years and Israel will lead the Gentiles to God.

No, He will not. Israel led many Gentiles to God already long ago and then Gentiles, in turn, have led a good number of Israelites to God through the preaching of the gospel. Read the book of Acts and Romans 11.

 

[Taken]

He said he believes flesh and blood mortals inherit the kingdom prepared from the foundation of the world that Jesus references in Matthew 25:34. Marilyn C believes that, also. But, the sheep (the righteous) inherit eternal life in that kingdom, which is the kingdom of God. So, that contradicts 1 Corinthians 15:50-54. This is not hard for a normal person to understand at all, yet you still can't understand the point.

I’m still seeing your words making claims for others.

 

[Taken]

Thanks but to be fair I did say mortals would enter the kingdom on earth

Point being…
The “kingdom of God” IS Heavenly…not of this world, nor does such Heavenly Kingdom have Flesh and Blood Occupants / residents/ inhabitants.

Christ Jesus’ Future “Kingdom on Earth” will Not have flesh and blood “occupants / residents / inhabitants”.
The “nations” outside of Christ Jesus’ earthly Kingdom…shall have flesh and blood human “occupants / residents/ inhabitants / citizens”

Neither of those situations is claiming … Flesh and Blood humans Occupy the Kingdom of God…

I do have to clarify this however
There are two kingdoms
Paul speaks of the heavenly kingdom....................

Yes. And your point was clear.

[Eph 1:3 KJV] 3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:
[2Ti 4:18 KJV] 18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve [me] unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom [be] glory for ever and ever. Amen.

It is this heavenly kingdom that Paul says flesh and blood cant enter so we will be changed at the rapture

The prophetic Davidic earthly kingdom is found in the gospels where Christ preached it was at hand
Isiah talks about this kingdom where those who enter out of the tribulation will have mortal bodies
[Isa 65:20 KJV] 20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner [being] an hundred years old shall be accursed.
They will die so they are mortal

An earthly land mass, called a country, a nation, a kingdom, has its own occupants/ inhabitants.

Christs earthly “kingdom’s” occupants are risen saints and holy angels…
Nations and their occupants (on Earth) outside of Christs Kingdom are Flesh and blood mortals.

 

[Taken]

I just dont see why you cant accept that there are two kingdoms and in the earthly kingdom there will be mortals. Christ will reign for a thousand years and Israel will lead the Gentiles to God.

In the earthly kingdom…will be mortals?

Mortals “occupy / reside in Christs earthly Kingdom”. ?
No.

Mortals occupying / residing in Nations outside of Christs Kingdom?
Yes.

Mortals from world Nations, pilgrimage, visit, enter in Christs Kingdom?
Yes.

Live there?
No.

 

[WPM]

when he told the parable of the Nobleman, which is an analogy describing Jesus going to a far country to receive a political kingdom.

Show me. Where is Jesus enforcing his political will?

You invent this 'political kingdom' junk out of your imagination, without any biblical support, and then ask me to support it. Really? What are you like?

You are not getting it on so many fronts. Meanwhile, there is a wealth of biblical evidence above teaching the contrary that you duck around.

 

[WPM]

"Near" and "close" only count in horseshoes and hand grenades.

That sums up your teaching

 

[Doug]

No, He will not.

[Rev 20:4 KJV] 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Are you saying He wont reign for a thousand years

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The Trinity doctrine isn't teaching that God has three parts. The Trinity Doctrine teaches that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are one "ousia." In short, one being with three distinct wills.

Why would I do otherwise? The Trinity was conceived using human reasoning, and therefore, it must be challenged using human reasoning.

Who says that I am not accepting what the Bible says? The Bible doesn't teach the Trinity Doctrine. There is nothing in the Bible that even suggests that a single being can have three distinct wills. That concept was borrowed from Greek Philosophy in order to deal with a set of Greek philosophical assumptions that we no longer accept as valid.

We no longer believe, for instance, that matter and physicality are necessarily evil. But Christians living during the third and fourth centuries believed that matter was evil. And by human reasoning, if you will, they decided that Jesus couldn't be made of matter because that would mean that he had an evil nature.

We no longer think in those categories and draw conclusions based on Greek dualism. We no longer believe that the physical world is imperfect. We no longer believe that the spirit is good and the flesh is evil.

Therefore, since we no longer accept Greek dualism as a valid explanation for reality, we have no reason to think in terms described in the creeds. We are free to understand the Bible on its own terms, not mixing human philosophy with it.

@Marilyn C I see that you liked this post. So, you deny that Jesus is God? Do you also deny that the Holy Spirit is God?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

[Rev 20:4 KJV] 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Are you saying He wont reign for a thousand years

You are clearly not able to understand anything I say for whatever reason, so it's pointless to continue trying to discuss these things with you. Are you aware of what Amillennialists believe? I'm an Amillennialist.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

May God have mercy upon your never die soul. This is heresy!

Yahweh is identified as the Creator of this World. However, the New Testament repeatedly demonstrates that Jesus Christ is the Creator. The only way that Yahweh could have done these things “alone” or ‘by Himself’ is if Jesus is Yahweh.

The New Testament narrative, in John 1:1-5, says, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.”

Verse 10-14 continues, “He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”

This passage shows, in unmistakable language, that “the Word” is Christ. It reveals the King of Glory in all His marvellous provision, purpose and power. The reading outlines His eternal pre-existence, powerfully revealing Him as the eternal Son of God; “The same was in the beginning with God” (v 2). Whilst, Christ was man of very man, He was also God of very God. Verse 1 succinctly says, “the Word was God.” Therefore, as the second person of the Trinity, He was the eternal Creator of this world.” Verse 10 tells us, “the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.”

I Corinthians 8:6 says: “there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.”

This is a common trait performed by the cults when engaging with them. They change the original words to mean the opposite to what they are. They butcher the original language. The Greek word dia is actually a primary preposition denoting: "the channel of an act" (Strong's). Jesus was the channel whom the Father worked through. He was the Creator. How do you sleep at night knowing you are going to have to face Jesus some day and account for twisting the Word of God and deceiving people?

The Bible acknowledges Jesus as the Word, the Creator.

Ephesians 3:9 tells us: “And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ.”

Colossians 1:13-17 says: “Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.”

This passage, which is speaking of Jesus, tells us that “all things were created by him, and for him” which would clearly make Him God.

Hebrews 1:2 &10 says, “God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom (or dia hos) also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high … And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands.”

Firstly, as Strong’s correctly explains: the word dia (which is rightly interpreted “by” here) is “a primary preposition denoting the channel of an act.” In the case we are looking at it tells us that it was through the channel or agency of the “Son” that God “made the worlds.” This is clear and simple for those that don’t need to reinterpret it. The word hos (rendered “whom”) is simply “the relatively (sometimes demonstrative) pronoun, who, which, what, that.” There is absolutely no ground to negate the meaning of the commonly used Greek words. They show what repeated Scripture tells us that Jesus is God/Creator.

These verses show the pre-existence of Christ the Son of God the Creator.

This is the only time in the Bible that this word is found.

The phrase “express image” derives from the lone Greek word charakter which means what it says: “character.” Christ is “the brightness of” God’s “glory” and the “charakter of his person.” Christ is the physical manifestation or representation of the invisible God. He is indeed the “express image” of Almighty God. Jesus is God. God physically is expressed in the person of Christ.

Hebrews 2:9-10 declares: “we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.”

Revelation 3:14 declares: “And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God.”

The designation “faithful and true” belongs to Christ. We see that in the depiction of the Second Coming in Revelation 19:11: “And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.”

Revelation 4:10-11 declares: “The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.”

The scriptural evidence is overwhelming. Anyone who denies all these clear scriptures is clearly a heretic who does not want to accept what the Bible teaches.

 

[CadyandZoe]

On this forum I'm Spiritual Israelite. So, that's who I am telling you what you believe. And I can tell you that you do not believe that Jesus is God since you do not believe He has God's attributes such as being the Creator of all things, being all powerful, being omnipresent, and so on.

And I told you that one thing or person can represent another thing or person without sharing all of its attributes.

You do agree that God created all things, is all powerful and is omnipresent, I assume?

Yes, I do just as you do.

If so, then your claim that Jesus is God is a lie since you do not believe that He has God's attributes.

It is not a lie because Jesus doesn't need to have all of God's attributes to be the image of God.

You do not believe that Jesus is God, but rather that He only represents God or is the image of God.

The Bible teaches that Jesus is the image of God.

Even Adam and Eve were created in the image of God (Genesis 1:27). But, no one would say that Adam or Eve are God.

Adam and Eve were created in the image of God, but Jesus is a unique human being in that Jesus is identical to God as I explained before.

 

[CadyandZoe]

You invent this 'political kingdom' junk out of your imagination, without any biblical support, and then ask me to support it. Really? What are you like?

You are not getting it on so many fronts. Meanwhile, there is a wealth of biblical evidence above teaching the contrary that you duck around.

What did you think Jesus meant by the idea that he was going away to receive a kingdom? You already admit that Jesus was the ruler of a spiritual kingdom before he left the earth. He doesn't travel to heaven to receive something he already has. He goes to heaven to receive a political kingdom, which is a domain that he lacks.

 

[CadyandZoe]

That sums up your teaching

Your answers indicate that you lack a defense. At this point, since you can't raise an objection, you should consider whether you were mistaken.

 

[CadyandZoe]

@Marilyn C I see that you liked this post. So, you deny that Jesus is God? Do you also deny that the Holy Spirit is God?

@Marilyn C don't engage them on this topic since they won't give up until you are forced against your will to confess what they believe.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

@Marilyn C don't engage them on this topic since they won't give up until you are forced against your will to confess what they believe.

LOL. She does what she wants. We will not stop refuting non-Christian heresy on this Christian forum.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

And I told you that one thing or person can represent another thing or person without sharing all of its attributes.

Yes, I do just as you do.

It is not a lie because Jesus doesn't need to have all of God's attributes to be the image of God.

The Bible teaches that Jesus is the image of God.

Adam and Eve were created in the image of God, but Jesus is a unique human being in that Jesus is identical to God as I explained before.

Stop saying you believe that Jesus is God when you don't believe that. You believe He is the image of God, as you understand that, but do not believe He is God. And don't lie by saying He is identical to God when we know that God created all things, but You say Jesus did not and that God is all powerful and omnipresent but you say Jesus is not.