Prophets and Watchmen

[Angelina]

Tongues aren't as clear because spotting fake tongues is totally subjective.

Tongues are mostly spoken within the Church. Where there are tongues, there are also interpreters. Some tongues may indeed be false however, God has also given various believers the gift of discernment. This gift is able to define whether one is speaking in a tongue from the Lord or whether they are not. There is a prompting, an unction, a sense of alertness from the Holy Spirit that tells us when a tongue is not from God.

As to silencing a "prophet" I would offer two points: They should not be silenced unless they are doing something excessively provocative like if it's a profanity or something very threatening then of course they should be silenced (and removed). If it doesn't step to that level then they should be allowed to continue. At that point, if what was said was false, then it is for a true prophet to stand up then and denounce what was just said (with care) and then the service to move on. If the pastor feels the need to add an addendum or some point then he should. But I don't believe it's right to silence tongues or prophecies because I fear the Lord.

Any one who joins this forum, as an unknown and professes to be a prophet, will be heavily moderated. I would like to also point out that there are no "noted prophets" on this forum so your idea about "a true prophet" denouncing what was said would not come to pass.

Btw: I do not believe that anyone here is trying to silence the gift of tongues or the gift of prophecy. There is a major difference between the gift of prophecy and the office of a prophet....If you call yourself a prophet then you are saying that you hold the office of a prophet. The forum leadership will not allow strangers to this forum who profess to be prophets to have a free reign with it's members....just a reminder.

 

[Apocalypticist]

Tongues are mostly spoken within the Church. Where there are tongues, there are also interpreters. Some tongues may indeed be false however, God has also given various believers the gift of discernment. This gift is able to define whether one is speaking in a tongue from the Lord or whether they are not. There is a prompting, an unction, a sense of alertness from the Holy Spirit that tells us when a tongue is not from God.


Any one who joins this forum, as an unknown and professes to be a prophet, will be heavily moderated. I would like to also point out that there are no "noted prophets" on this forum so your idea about "a true prophet" denouncing what was said would not come to pass.

Btw: I do not believe that anyone here is trying to silence the gift of tongues or the gift of prophecy. There is a major difference between the gift of prophecy and the office of a prophet....If you call yourself a prophet then you are saying that you hold the office of a prophet. The forum leadership will not allow strangers to this forum who profess to be prophets to have a free reign with it's members....just a reminder.

"Tongues are mostly spoken within the Church. Where there are tongues, there are also interpreters. Some tongues may indeed be false however, God has also given various believers the gift of discernment. This gift is able to define whether one is speaking in a tongue from the Lord or whether they are not. There is a prompting, an unction, a sense of alertness from the Holy Spirit that tells us when a tongue is not from God."

I was quite puzzled to read Rick Joyner, who I'm totally opposed to, he wrote that the true gift of discernment was probably the gift that was given to the least number of people. I've seen that that plays out every single day as being true. In my opinion, tongues are abused far far more often than they are true. Look at the prophecies and compare. How many false prophets are there for every one true prophet... 20? 100? Same with tongues. I have the gift of discernment and most of it plain gives me chills. It's rife with such enormous fraud I don't know why people take it as seriously as they once did.

"Prophet"

There might be prophets here who don't identify that way. Do you know that's for the better? Biblical prophets did not walk around advertising themselves.. that was the operating procedure of false prophets, always. In the church though, if someone gave a false prophetic word, then someone else would stand up after him to denounce what was said, but only a few would know what happened. When Jeremiah or the other prophets encountered large crowds, like I said they didn't advertise themselves and there were only a few in every crowd that understood the magnitude of what was happening.

Pay attention to the chapters before and after the story about Hananiah. Jeremiah's ministry is enormously attacked in that period and he finally warns the people to desert the land and flee into Egypt. He's being accused of being a traitor to his nation. Nevertheless, the king of Babylon prances in and slaughters untold thousands and takes thousands more into captivity. The vast majority, if you study the mid-section of Jeremiah, thought the guy was off his rocker and his word wasn't worth the paper it was printed on, as it were. Do you know, probably 3% had any idea that they were standing before a man whose name would be remembered until the end of time, one of the greatest prophets ever, who is likely to be seated as one of the 24 elders? And that 97% listened instead to the prophet who spoke peace, and Hananiah saying, The LORD says likewise shall I break the yoke of the king of Babylon.

 

[Angelina]

Apocalypticist, I also have the gift of discernment. Check out our eschatology forum and see how many prophets have come here claiming to know the specific dates of end-time events...there have been an uncountable amount and everyone of them have been wrong.

I actually said to one of them that I probably won't see them here again because they will be wrong and then they will feel bad about their false date and not come back... :huh: which happened. Tongues may be abused but tongues are not as harmful as a prophets words that do not come to pass....whether that be in a Church environment or on this forum. You cannot speak in tongues on this forum so I do not know why you keep bringing it up.

I'm sorry, I will not be taught the bible from someone I do not know nor do I have history with in the sense that you have been my bible teacher or HG leader and I have found over time, that you have a sound Biblical grasp on the word of God and have borne fruit.

 

[Apocalypticist]

I thought the point of this thread was so people could 'disprove' the idea of prophets. My original post was to say tongues would cease, but prophets would live on till the last day. So it makes little sense to speak of an end to prophecy but to include tongues, like many Pentecostals do, while harassing the gift of prophecy.

False prophecy has such a terrible effect because the churches persecute the true prophets like they always did, thinking they're doing God a service. Only false prophets have a mic.

I think it's telling that you're opposed to prophesying but you keep tongues. Like John MacArthur pointed out, there is no support for that. Tongues will cease, but prophecy will continue until the perfect comes.

 

[Angelina]

I thought the point of this thread was so people could 'disprove' the idea of prophets.

...no...it was not the point of this thread. please read the O/P again.

My original post was to say tongues would cease, but prophets would live on till the last day. So it makes little sense to speak of an end to prophecy but to include tongues, like many Pentecostals do, while harassing the gift of prophecy.

what is the point of prophets who live till the "last day" as you say, if prophecy will be done away with also? Here's the KJ version

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

 

[Apocalypticist]

...no...it was not the point of this thread. please read the O/P again.




what is the point of prophets who live till the "last day" as you say, if prophecy will be done away with also? Here's the KJ version

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

Because even in the English we see that prophecy is a part. So when it's saying when the perfect comes, that which is only a part will die away.

MacArthur does something that I'm simply unable to do which is go to the inspired Greek (amen?) and show that to the ancient reader of Greek how plain a statement this actually would have been. I think we agree the English isn't as plain as the Greek. English is relatively plain to the Koine Greek. Remember how Inuits have seven words for snow (Greek have four or six for love)? How often do you think they see snow in Nigeria? Prior to vaccinations, there wasn't a word for 'autism' in the Somali language, it was so rare. So of course the Greek is much more obvious that what it means is tongues will cease but prophecy will carry on until the perfect. I think it's a wonder anyone even speaks in tongues anymore. I think it's on its last leg.

 

[Angelina]

So of course the Greek is much more obvious that what it means is tongues will cease but prophecy will carry on until the perfect. I think it's a wonder anyone even speaks in tongues anymore. I think it's on its last leg.

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it...but that is not what the bible says. The forum Leadership will not allow strangers to this forum who profess to be prophets to have a free reign with it's members... such prophets will be heavily moderated.

 

[Apocalypticist]

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it...but that is not what the bible says. The forum Leadership will not allow strangers to this forum who profess to be prophets to have a free reign with it's members... such prophets will be heavily moderated.

Actually Angelina, it's not my opinion, it's the way it is because the Greek does say that and that was the point of me posting John MacArthur's analysis of the Greek. If you want to challenge on merits, as to why MacArthur has a less than thorough understanding of the Greek then do that, but I doubt you know Greek and neither do I. I'll go a step further and say no one even needs the Greek as long as they can read the plain English but do you know how many people are not even capable of that?

 

[Angelina]

You are arguing over unimportant points and ignoring what I have said...what I have said will not suddenly change because you object. neither will your objection change our responsibility as leaders of this forum...this conversation has come to an end...