Re Spirit baptism

[quietthinker]

I have an idea, of course, you didn't use words, so maybe I'm right and maybe not.

It doesn't change the fact that I didn't open the thread to see someone with their head in a toilet. To me that's lowbrow. I think there are better ways to express thoughts than potty references.

Much love!

so what do you perceive I was communicating?

 

[marks]

so what do you perceive I was communicating?

Do we have to drag this on?

You drink, you throw up, there's your 'spirit'.

Ick.

Much love, and hope!

 

[quietthinker]

Do we have to drag this on?

You drink, you throw up, there's your 'spirit'.

Ick.

Much love, and hope!

...but you don't enquire.....you just assume......and Johann is willing for me to drop dead....hmmmmm

 

[Behold]

I guess that's where his head is at?



Much love!

Perhaps he should be Quiet and Think more.

 

[David in NJ]

Glad you pointed this out. Thank you.

Being from a Charismatic/Pentecostal background... (evangelical prior)
I have a different view of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit. (as subsequent to conversion)

I won't bother giving a full presentation. Y'all know what Charismatic/Pentecostal is, right?
And you understand the Charismatic/Pentecostal view of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit?

Question for skeptics:
How did the Apostles determine that the believers in Samaria had NOT received the Holy Spirit?

Acts 8:14-17 NIV
When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. 15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

Most people do not understand the Baptism of the Holy Spirit as recorded in Acts.

We are 2,000 years from the Original

 

[quietthinker]

Perhaps he should be Quiet and Think more.

Perhaps enquiry should precede judgement and dishing out advice

 

[Enoch111]

Now, having read this, makes perfectly sense to me, is water baptism excluded as mere traditions of men?

1. Christian water baptism is a COMMANDMENT of Christ not a tradition of men. It is restricted to believers (Acts 7 and many other passages)

2. The baptism WITH the Holy Spirit is the gift of the Holy Spirit to the one who repents and believes. The divine Baptizer is Christ. (Mt 3:11)

3. The baptism BY the Holy Spirit is the work of the Holy Spirit in "immersing" a believer into the Body of Christ. It follows the previous baptism. (1 Cor 12:13)

4. The baptism with "fire" is in fact the damnation of unrepentant souls in the Lake of Fire. They are regarded as "chaff" in contrast to the "wheat" of believers (Mt 3:10-13)

5. There is no such thing as the baptism IN the Holy Spirit followed by speaking in "tongues" (Pentecostal teaching). There are a couple of instances in Scripture where those who received the gift of the Spirit also spoke in tongues immediately. But that is not the norm. Acts 2 says that about 3,000 souls were saved and baptized but none of them spoke in tongues. It was the apostles and the disciples who spoke in tongues on the day of Pentecost.

 

[Johann]

1. Christian water baptism is a COMMANDMENT of Christ not a tradition of men. It is restricted to believers (Acts 7 and many other passages)

2. The baptism WITH the Holy Spirit is the gift of the Holy Spirit to the one who repents and believes. The divine Baptizer is Christ. (Mt 3:11)

3. The baptism BY the Holy Spirit is the work of the Holy Spirit in "immersing" a believer into the Body of Christ. It follows the previous baptism. (1 Cor 12:13)

4. The baptism with "fire" is in fact the damnation of unrepentant souls in the Lake of Fire. They are regarded as "chaff" in contrast to the "wheat" of believers (Mt 3:10-13)

5. There is no such thing as the baptism IN the Holy Spirit followed by speaking in "tongues" (Pentecostal teaching). There are a couple of instances in Scripture where those who received the gift of the Spirit also spoke in tongues immediately. But that is not the norm. Acts 2 says that about 3,000 souls were saved and baptized but none of them spoke in tongues. It was the apostles and the disciples who spoke in tongues on the day of Pentecost.

Not here to enter into a debate that divides brothers and sisters on the topic of baptisms, law and Shabbath, let's talk about Christ, the cross, resurrection and the indwelling Holy Spirit.

 

[Johann]

I guess that's where his head is at?



Much love!

Mocking Christ is one thing, mocking the Holy Spirit, publicly, is not going unpunished.
J.

 

[quietthinker]

Mocking Christ is one thing, mocking the Holy Spirit, publicly, is not going unpunished.
J.

according to your hearing, your interpretation and your judgement and all that without enquiry, hmmmmm

 

[St. SteVen]

Most people do not understand the Baptism of the Holy Spirit as recorded in Acts.

On that point, we agree.
How do you understand it?

We are 2,000 years from the Original

Does that matter?

 

[David in NJ]

On that point, we agree.
How do you understand it?

Does that matter?

Absolutely agree
Just as "It is written"

Nope

 

[DJT_47]

The baptism of the Holy Spirit may be defined as that work whereby the Spirit of God places the believer into union with Christ and into union with other believers in the body of Christ at the moment of salvation.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit was predicted by John the Baptist (Mark 1:8) and by Jesus before He ascended to heaven: “For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit” (Acts 1:5). This promise was fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2:1–4); for the first time, people were permanently indwelt by the Holy Spirit, and the church had begun.

First Corinthians 12:12–13 is the central passage in the Bible regarding the baptism of the Holy Spirit: “For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink” (1 Corinthians 12:13). Notice that we “all” have been baptized by the Spirit—all believers have received the baptism, synonymous with salvation, and it is not a special experience for only a few. While Romans 6:1–4 does not mention specifically the Spirit of God, it does describe the believer’s position before God in language similar to the 1 Corinthians passage: “What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.”

The following facts are necessary to help solidify our understanding of Spirit baptism: First, 1 Corinthians 12:13 clearly states that all have been baptized, just as all been given the Spirit to drink (the indwelling of the Spirit). Second, nowhere in Scripture are believers told to be baptized with, in or by the Spirit, or in any sense to seek the baptism of the Holy Spirit. This indicates that all believers have had this experience.

Third, Ephesians 4:5 seems to refer to Spirit baptism. If this is the case, Spirit baptism is the reality for every believer, just as “one faith” and “one Father” are.

In conclusion, the baptism of the Holy Spirit does two things, 1)
it joins us to the body of Christ, and 2) it actualizes our co-crucifixion with Christ. Being in His body means we are risen with Him to newness of life (Romans 6:4). We should then exercise our spiritual gifts to keep that body functioning properly as stated in the context of 1 Corinthians 12:13. Experiencing the one Spirit baptism serves as the basis for keeping the unity of the church, as in the context of Ephesians 4:5. Being associated with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection through Spirit baptism establishes the basis for our separation from the power of indwelling sin and our walk in newness of life (Romans 6:1-10; Colossians 2:12).

Now, having read this, makes perfectly sense to me, is water baptism excluded as mere traditions of men?
Is there a distinction between water baptism and the baptism of the Holy Spirit? Or is it the same?

First of all, we receive the gift of the Holy Ghost at the time of baptism (Acts 2:38) which is not a baptism of the spirit but rather it's indwelling in us by which we are also joined to the body of Christ, the church. The gift (singular, not gifts) of the Holy Ghost is exactly that: the Holy Ghost itself and not the various miraculous gifts administered by the Holy Ghost or Spirit as listed in 1 Cor 12:8-10 as most erroneously believe.

Secondly, the text that you referred to is Luke 3:16 as spoken by John the Baptist,
did in fact happen as recorded in Acts 2 on the day of Pentecost, which event was also referred to by Jesus in Luke 24:49 wherein he told his apostles to tarry in Jerusalem until they received power from on high. This was the event that occurred in Acts 2 on the day of Pentecost but it happened to only the apostles. THEY received the so called baptism of the spirit which gave THEM the power of the spirit to perform miracles as well as enable the miraculous manifestation of the various gifts of the Spirit by the laying on of their hands as noted in Acts 5:12, Acts 8:17-18, and Acts 19:6.

This no longer happens today as there are no longer apostles by whose hands the miraculous gifts can be manifested.

 

[Johann]

First of all, we receive the gift of the Holy Ghost at the time of baptism (Acts 2:38) which is not a baptism of the spirit but rather it's indwelling in us by which we are also joined to the body of Christ, the church. The gift (singular, not gifts) of the Holy Ghost is exactly that: the Holy Ghost itself and not the various miraculous gifts administered by the Holy Ghost or Spirit as listed in 1 Cor 12:8-10 as most erroneously believe.

Secondly, the text that you referred to is Luke 3:16 as spoken by John the Baptist,
did in fact happen as recorded in Acts 2 on the day of Pentecost, which event was also referred to by Jesus in Luke 24:49 wherein he told his apostles to tarry in Jerusalem until they received power from on high. This was the event that occurred in Acts 2 on the day of Pentecost but it happened to only the apostles. THEY received the so called baptism of the spirit which gave THEM the power of the spirit to perform miracles as well as enable the miraculous manifestation of the various gifts of the Spirit by the laying on of their hands as noted in Acts 5:12, Acts 8:17-18, and Acts 19:6.

This no longer happens today as there are no longer apostles by whose hands the miraculous gifts can be manifested.

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Eph 4:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

I concur with the apostles part, what about the rest?

 

[GRACE ambassador]

B) WITH The Holy Spirit, Poured Out By CHRIST, for power, signs And wonders!
(Isaiah_44:3; Matthew_3:11; Mark_1:8, 16:17-18;
Luke_24:49; Acts_2:17-18, 38, 8:15-17, 11:16)

Glad you pointed this out. Thank you.

You are very welcome.

 

[marks]

...but you don't enquire.....you just assume......and Johann is willing for me to drop dead....hmmmmm

It goes on . . . . . . . . .

It's what I said at first. I didn't open the thread looking to see someone's head in a toilet. To me that comes across lowbrow.

And because you didn't use words, the viewer is left to their own interpretation of this ugly little display of someone vomiting their booze into the the toilet.

Enough said?

Much love!

 

[DJT_47]

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Eph 4:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

I concur with the apostles part, what about the rest?

Not exactly sure what you mean, but you must consider the context of the 1 Cor letter, who it was written to and their issues. It wasn't written to us in present day, but to them. Then look at Ephesians. The perfecting of the saints when all are in unity which was also the need for the various gifts in the early church since they had no bible to guide them, but rather the various gifts of the Spirit, each gift likened to a part of a physical body as 1 Cor12 describes. This is also what 1 Cor 13:8-12 relates to. Look at it from a congregational level and at that time and place, not in the context of today as a universal body of the present day church. The Cor letter addresses the issues THEY had and at that point in time in one of the fledgling congregations of the early church.

 

[Johann]

Not exactly sure what you mean, but you must consider the context of the 1 Cor letter, who it was written to and their issues. It wasn't written to us in present day, but to them. Then look at Ephesians. The perfecting of the saints when all are in unity which was also the need for the various gifts in the early church since they had no bible to guide them, but rather the various gifts of the Spirit, each gift likened to a part of a physical body as 1 Cor12 describes. This is also what 1 Cor 13:8-12 relates to. Look at it from a congregational level and at that time and place, not in the context of today as a universal body of the present day church. The Cor letter addresses the issues THEY had and at that point in time in one of the fledgling congregations of the early church.

If I read you correctly, we don't need pastors, evangelists; and teachers; to shepherd God's flock?
I'm very tired so I can make a mistake--I am well aware our Bible is Jewish, Jesus was a Jew and we need to read the customs and manners of our Jewish brothers.

--and it is the Spirit that now teach and guides us, correct? Well, I don't know my "gift" and where I fit into the body of Christ and what my calling is, being very transparent with you.

J.

 

[Behold]

Perhaps enquiry should precede judgement and dishing out advice

Perhaps a Christian forum is no place for the vulgar to post their vulgarity.
As what else would post it in photos on a Christian forum

What do you THINK, or do you?

 

[DJT_47]

If I read you correctly, we don't need pastors, evangelists; and teachers; to shepherd God's flock?
I'm very tired so I can make a mistake--I am well aware our Bible is Jewish, Jesus was a Jew and we need to read the customs and manners of our Jewish brothers.

--and it is the Spirit that now teach and guides us, correct? Well, I don't know my "gift" and where I fit into the body of Christ and what my calling is, being very transparent with you.

J.

The miraculous gifts have ceased 1 Cor 13:8, so you don't have one of those listed in 1 Cor 12:8-10, nor dies anyone else, but a baptized believer has the gift (singular), the indwelling of the Holy Ghost. And no, you're not reading me correctly.