Remember Lot

[Groundzero]

Sound thoughts in your post thank you.

"And when the morning arose" Gen 19:15

The word שחר shachar signifies the dawn which is so typical of the future judgement coming, but this time it will not be executed by angels, but the Sun of Righteousness shall shine forth from the political heavens as in Mal 4:1,2.

"Then the angels hastened Lot"

I believe Lot was in a state of utter terror, which brought him extremely low, if not depressed. I also can see him running through the dark streets of this doomed city seeking to save his family and others, so conscious of the lost opportunities of the past, and now the dread realisation came to him that most of his family were lost.

I endeavour to place myself in his shoes as I realise how wasteful my life appears. When we considered he undoubtedly had a large family and trusted servants, all lost.

"Saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here"

If you look at the AV margin the literal Hebrew is stated are found (מצא matsa'). This implies that the others were lost.

How useless as a Father would you feel in this moment?

"Lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city"

The urgency to separate himself from the doomed city, if he really wanted salvation was pressed hard against him by the angels. The same will apply at the coming of the Lord before the destruction of Babylon the Great in Rev. 18:4 but on a much larger scale.

One cannot comprehend the world wide destruction that will cover this planet upon Christs return. Like the inhabitants of Sodom, so too will the world be in derision at his coming.

Sobering thoughts.

Very interesting! I hadn't thought in the same way as you, but it is so true. Lot must have felt like an absolute failure as he left Sodom. I think that is what prompted him to go to Zoar. At least he managed to save that city.

The story of Lot is a powerful reminder for us of just how much power we really have. We can be the difference between the city destroyed and the city saved.

Thanks for your input, Insight.

Something else: Lot obviously believed that judgement was coming. What a leap of faith! Everything was absolutely normal (according to the people of the day), yet Lot believed what the angels told him, that judgement was coming, and acted on it.

 

[Insight]

Gen 19:20

If ever there was a verse which spoke of Lots relationship with Yahweh this is certainly one of them.

He appeals to His mercy knowing it was within Gods ability to spare this little city.

Groundzero, why not flee to the mountains where Abraham had lived extensively?

He presumed upon Gods kindness which is acceptable if it be His will. Notice the word “little” is mits'ar, little or petty, from tsaar ( look up the meaning of Zoar!!!), to be small, ignoble. This city clearly stands for compromise; its little, unknown and unassuming maybe you could consider this town to be of little faith, like us. But it is here that Lot took refuge! They say this city was called Bela in Gen.14:2, but now became known as Zoar, a play upon the word little one.

 

[Groundzero]

Gen 19:20

If ever there was a verse which spoke of Lots relationship with Yahweh this is certainly one of them.

He appeals to His mercy knowing it was within Gods ability to spare this little city.

Groundzero, why not flee to the mountains where Abraham had lived extensively?

He presumed upon Gods kindness which is acceptable if it be His will. Notice the word “little” is mits'ar, little or petty, from tsaar ( look up the meaning of Zoar!!!), to be small, ignoble. This city clearly stands for compromise; its little, unknown and unassuming maybe you could consider this town to be of little faith, like us. But it is here that Lot took refuge! They say this city was called Bela in Gen.14:2, but now became known as Zoar, a play upon the word little one.

The mountains were

1. Closer to Sodom than Zoar

2. Alot safer as they had caves, etc, a natural hiding place

3. had been used before by the people.Gen 14:10 And the vale of Siddim was full of slimepits; and the kings of Sodom and Gomorrah fled, and fell there; and they that remained fled to the mountain.

The geography of the area has a mountain range extending right down the valley (which is now the dead sea). It was a logical place to flee. Lot, however, had ulterior motives. He was speaking for the city of Zoar in an attempt to save it.

 

[Insight]

Groundzero,

Our famliy were discussing this over breakfast.

What was in Zoar worthy of saving?

 

[Groundzero]

Groundzero,

Our famliy were discussing this over breakfast.

What was in Zoar worthy of saving?

Nothing, except the lives of the inhabitants. It probably was a new town that was just starting up. Because of its association with all the other cities there, it was going to be destroyed.

 

[avoice]

I think the key to understanding Lot's Story is the word righteous .... It does not mean without sin or bad judgement
Was David righteous ? Of course yet he committed adultry and had Bathsheba's husband killed.

The word righteous is often used to depict What/whom God judges as righteous
God judges by whats in ones heart/mind alone. God is always just in his judgements
.
While what Lot did was wrong in our human eyes. God alone saw Lots heart and he judged him righteous.

Lot was a sinner plain and simple just as all men are there is no justification for his sin and bad judgement.
However God being just considered Lot a rightous man just as he did David not because of their sins but inspite of
them.

 

[Insight]

I think the key to understanding Lot's Story is the word righteous .... It does not mean without sin or bad judgement Was David righteous ? Of course yet he committed adultry and had Bathsheba's husband killed. The word righteous is often used to depict What/whom God judges as righteous God judges by whats in ones heart/mind alone. God is always just in his judgements . While what Lot did was wrong in our human eyes. God alone saw Lots heart and he judged him righteous. Lot was a sinner plain and simple just as all men are there is no justification for his sin and bad judgement. However God being just considered Lot a rightous man just as he did David not because of their sins but inspite of them.

Agreed.

 

[Insight]

The mountains were 1. Closer to Sodom than Zoar 2. Alot safer as they had caves, etc, a natural hiding place 3. had been used before by the people.Gen 14:10 And the vale of Siddim was full of slimepits; and the kings of Sodom and Gomorrah fled, and fell there; and they that remained fled to the mountain. The geography of the area has a mountain range extending right down the valley (which is now the dead sea). It was a logical place to flee. Lot, however, had ulterior motives. He was speaking for the city of Zoar in an attempt to save it.

The detail is often missed in lazy Bible Study. We often blanket these accounts with preconceieved ideas but when we expose our minds to the detail it is then the account comes to life.

I was thinking about Lot and his two daughters leaving Sodom and moving to Zoar. It is quite possible they knew poeple in this town. Whatever the case we find in Gen 19:33 they have wine and food which they may have sourced from Zoar.

"And they made their father drink wine that night"

Now if you are right in suggesting he left family in Sodom this may provide another angle to Lot's wife looking back ??? The context of Luke 17 is "Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything.". Now this may also explain the need for getting drunk with wine to escape the reality of loss. Not only of his wife, but maybe other family members. Eph 5:18

This incident of Lot and his daughters is the last we have and its interesting the record would leave us with such a depressing picture of this man.

Its extremely degrading to see a man in a drunken, helpless, fearful, lonely, destitute, worn out by shock, burdened state and in the power of unscrupulous women.

When we look back to his time with Abraham, he was prosperous honoured and walking in the pathway to life and glory.

I know that many here may not like to read this...but the Master taught the state of the church/s at his coming will be like Lot in this cave.

The Lord criticised those of Laodicea for saying, "I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked" (Rev. 3:17).

Such foolishness ultimately results in spiritual poverty.

I believe this is why the Spirit left us here.

Lot would have children with his own daughters. (quite hard to write this)

What is the lesson for us today?

When I think about the Masters teachings one comes to mind which sees Jesus rebuking the pharisees accused them of spiritual fornication: "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do" (John 8:44).

The Jews saw the point of the Lord's rebuke and denied that they were "born of fornication" (John 8:41); but, in fact, their attitude demonstrated that they were.

If we had time to study the destruction and loss of life which resulted from this incestuous union, we would be horrified.

Lots life warns us of what not to become "the Laodicean luke warm state".

Insight

 

[Groundzero]

The detail is often missed in lazy Bible Study. We often blanket these accounts with preconceieved ideas but when we expose our minds to the detail it is then the account comes to life.

I was thinking about Lot and his two daughters leaving Sodom and moving to Zoar. It is quite possible they knew poeple in this town. Whatever the case we find in Gen 19:33 they have wine and food which they may have sourced from Zoar.

"And they made their father drink wine that night"

Now if you are right in suggesting he left family in Sodom this may provide another angle to Lot's wife looking back ??? The context of Luke 17 is "Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything.". Now this may also explain the need for getting drunk with wine to escape the reality of loss. Not only of his wife, but maybe other family members. Eph 5:18

This incident of Lot and his daughters is the last we have and its interesting the record would leave us with such a depressing picture of this man.

Its extremely degrading to see a man in a drunken, helpless, fearful, lonely, destitute, worn out by shock, burdened state and in the power of unscrupulous women.

When we look back to his time with Abraham, he was prosperous honoured and walking in the pathway to life and glory.

I know that many here may not like to read this...but the Master taught the state of the church/s at his coming will be like Lot in this cave.

The Lord criticised those of Laodicea for saying, "I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked" (Rev. 3:17).

Such foolishness ultimately results in spiritual poverty.

I believe this is why the Spirit left us here.

Lot would have children with his own daughters. (quite hard to write this)

What is the lesson for us today?

When I think about the Masters teachings one comes to mind which sees Jesus rebuking the pharisees accused them of spiritual fornication: "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do" (John 8:44).

The Jews saw the point of the Lord's rebuke and denied that they were "born of fornication" (John 8:41); but, in fact, their attitude demonstrated that they were.

If we had time to study the destruction and loss of life which resulted from this incestuous union, we would be horrified.

Lots life warns us of what not to become "the Laodicean luke warm state".

Insight

I don't know. Back then, there were no laws prohibiting such activity. In itself, it wasn't actually wrong. The daughters' motives, well, don't know. The way they did it, definitely wrong.

 

[Insight]

Sodom was destroyed or was it?

And the firstborn bare a son, and called his name Moab: the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day

Moab means (Begotten) of a (my) father. It speaks of one dominated by the deceitful desires of flesh as in John 8:44.

And the younger, she also bare a son, and called his name Ben-ammi: Ben-ammi means Son of my people, or,
Son of my (paternal) kinsman; the son of the flesh.

"The same is the father of the children of Ammon unto this day"

Ammon signifies tribal i.e. inbred, relating to the flesh.

Each of these names reveal how the flesh and its hurtful lusts would continue. Israel would come from Abraham, so also would these rebellious neighbours from Lot play an important part in the future history of Israel.

Most assuredly dear readers, the evil which occurred in Sodom would live on in these two tribes.

The Moabites & the Ammonites.

 

[Groundzero]

Sodom was destroyed or was it? And the firstborn bare a son, and called his name Moab: the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day Moab means (Begotten) of a (my) father. It speaks of one dominated by the deceitful desires of flesh as in John 8:44. And the younger, she also bare a son, and called his name Ben-ammi: Ben-ammi means Son of my people, or, Son of my (paternal) kinsman; the son of the flesh. "The same is the father of the children of Ammon unto this day" Ammon signifies tribal i.e. inbred, relating to the flesh. Each of these names reveal how the flesh and its hurtful lusts would continue. Israel would come from Abraham, so also would these rebellious neighbours from Lot play an important part in the future history of Israel. Most assuredly dear readers, the evil which occurred in Sodom would live on in these two tribes. The Moabites & the Ammonites.

There is an interesting verse in Deuteronomy, which mentions that God has given the children of Lot an inheritance. The question is, were they always un-Godly, or was there a stage in their history where they were God-fearing people, but the winds of time eroded their faith?


Deu_2:9 And the LORD said unto me, Distress not the Moabites, neither contend with them in battle: for I will not give thee of their land for a possession; because I have given Ar unto the children of Lot for a possession.
Deu_2:19 And when thou comest nigh over against the children of Ammon, distress them not, nor meddle with them: for I will not give thee of the land of the children of Ammon any possession; because I have given it unto the children of Lot for a possession


Something else to note, Lot was an ancestor of Jesus! Ruth was a Moabite.

Just some thoughts. Since the Bible doesn't tell anymore about Lot, we are left with what could have happened. Who knows? Perhaps it might have been.

 

[Insight]

I don't know. Back then, there were no laws prohibiting such activity. In itself, it wasn't actually wrong. The daughters' motives, well, don't know. The way they did it, definitely wrong.

This is correct.

They probably did not view their actions as perverse as we would today, no doubt it was common practice within these evil cities. One would like to think that of Lot were sober he would reject such advances.

Insight

 

[Insight]

There is an interesting verse in Deuteronomy, which mentions that God has given the children of Lot an inheritance. The question is, were they always un-Godly, or was there a stage in their history where they were God-fearing people, but the winds of time eroded their faith? Deu_2:9 And the LORD said unto me, Distress not the Moabites, neither contend with them in battle: for I will not give thee of their land for a possession; because I have given Ar unto the children of Lot for a possession. Deu_2:19 And when thou comest nigh over against the children of Ammon, distress them not, nor meddle with them: for I will not give thee of the land of the children of Ammon any possession; because I have given it unto the children of Lot for a possession Something else to note, Lot was an ancestor of Jesus! Ruth was a Moabite. Just some thoughts. Since the Bible doesn't tell anymore about Lot, we are left with what could have happened. Who knows? Perhaps it might have been.

Again I must agree with you...rather pleasant really.

Why use the title "Children of Lot" ??? if not to convey a degree of truth but they may not have acted upon it?

"For I will not give thee of the land of the children of Ammon any possession because I have given it unto the children of Lot for a possession" see Gen. 19:38.

Use of the title children of Lot for the Ammonites and Moabites, implies the character of the people. They were people who
knew the truth, but did not act upon it.

As you will see below they dwelt on the border of the promised land but they never desired to be associated with Israel.

So many Christians today could be characterised as Ammon & Moab...I can think of the JW’s who reject natural Israel in all their teachings.

Here is something for you to consider Groundzero...go into your Esword or like bible program and search on Moab or Ammon....check out how often they are quoted together!!!

Also, which of the two nations were most fierce? The son of the youngest daughter or oldest?

Its was the Oldest Daughter who came up with the idea to sleep with their father and yet Ammon was the most feared nation of the two?

Interesting.

Insight

 

[Groundzero]

Again I must agree with you...rather pleasant really.

Why use the title "Children of Lot" ??? if not to convey a degree of truth but they may not have acted upon it?

"For I will not give thee of the land of the children of Ammon any possession because I have given it unto the children of Lot for a possession" see Gen. 19:38.

Use of the title children of Lot for the Ammonites and Moabites, implies the character of the people. They were people who
knew the truth, but did not act upon it.

As you will see below they dwelt on the border of the promised land but they never desired to be associated with Israel.

So many Christians today could be characterised as Ammon & Moab...I can think of the JW’s who reject natural Israel in all their teachings.


Here is something for you to consider Groundzero...go into your Esword or like bible program and search on Moab or Ammon....check out how often they are quoted together!!!

Also, which of the two nations were most fierce? The son of the youngest daughter or oldest?

Its was the Oldest Daughter who came up with the idea to sleep with their father and yet Ammon was the most feared nation of the two?

Interesting.

Insight

Yeah. It seems to be that Ammon was alot more warlike. Moab, while they also fought alot, they were not quite so sure of themselves. Something else interesting, is that David tried to make peace with Ammon. I am not sure about Moab, haven't got time to research it atm.

 

[Insight]

Groundzero, ​

Have you ever considered the lessons of the wives of Abraham & Lot? ​

If Iscah was the wife of Lot? we find Sarah is an example of righteous walk (1 Pet 3:6), however Lot's wife is "remembered" for her evil influence and a sad end Luke 17:32.

Interesting how the Bible presents the many diverse characters who are either receptive to His Word, or not.

Insight​