[font="'Franklin Gothic Medium"]The man Lot is not often mentioned, except in a negative sense; however, the Scriptures say that he was righteous. There must be more. What do you think about Lot?
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Remember Lot
- Thread starter Groundzero
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The man Lot is not often mentioned, except in a negative sense; however, the Scriptures say that he was righteous. There must be more. What do you think about Lot?
I think he must have been righteous in God's eyes. The only ones saved were Lot, his wife, and his two daughters, but his wife looked back against The Lord's command and was destroyed turning to a pillar of salt.
How Abraham tries to barter with The Lord for the righteous in the city back in Gen.18 just before is kind of interesting...
Gen 18:23-33
23 And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt Thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?
24 Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt Thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?
25 That be far from Thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from Thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?
26 And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.
OK, Abraham's got The Lord's promise not to destroy if 50 righteous are there.
27 And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord, which am but dust and ashes:
28 Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous: wilt Thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And He said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it.
Strange way to subtract 5 from 50, but that's how many Abraham asked about, i.e., 45. So now Abraham's got The Lord down to 45, but is The Lord really giving in to Abraham's petition? Yes, but for how many?
29 And he spake unto Him yet again, and said, Peradventure there shall be forty found there. And He said, I will not do it for forty's sake.
Now down to 40.
30 And he said unto Him, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found there. And He said, I will not do it, if I find thirty there.
Now down to 30.
31 And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And He said, I will not destroy it for twenty's sake.
Now to 20.
32 And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And He said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.
33 And the LORD went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place.
(KJV)
Down to 10. Not even ten were found righteous in Sodom and Gomorrah. It's almost like Abraham would have been better off asking if The Lord would spare his nephew Lot and all his family. That would have included Lot's son-in-laws but prevented the nations of Moab and Ammon from being born through Lot and his two daughters. So I think it was already ordained who would be saved from those cities and who wouldn't be. Thoughts?
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Well, he offered his own daughter to have sex with a mob - Clinton only lied about having sex - maybe Lot was righteous because he wasn't a Democrat?
I really like your reasoning
I'll get to this point. In the meantime, please, pull up every negative point possible, so we can rectify them.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
I'll get to this point. In the meantime, please, pull up every negative point possible, so we can rectify them.
Well, you asked.
Yeah. I want every 'negative' point about Lot put down so we can offer the alternative. Some people might not think that there is an alternative, but there is. Here's one: Lot is occasionally shown as selfish because he chose the 'best' part of the land when Abraham offered him a choice.
No. Lot was not a little boy. Jesus won't say that my 40 year old son is righteous because I was righteous. Neither vice versa.
Gen 19:8
8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.
(KJV0
They had a strong custom back then, that a guest of the house was under the special protection of the householder. Whether Lot actually intended to let them maul his daughters we cannot know. Those men having lusts for other men instead of women, I'd say Lot was pretty shrewd in figuring they wouldn't want his daughters. Turned out he was right, if that's what he was thinking. If it were me, I'd never offer those sodomites anything, for they were intending on breaking and entering against the householder. I would have a sword in my hand to stop that right away. Yet God had already pronounced sentence upon those sodomites, so I'm sure God was Who was controlling the situation, especially with the two angels He sent there to Lot.
Trying to cast Lot's righteousness in with the unrighteousness of those sodomites is confusion. I hear atheists trying to do that all the time with this example about Lot.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Something to consider is that Lot lived among the Sodomites and I don't think he was sent there by God to evangelize.
Abram dwelled in the land of Canaan, and Lot dwelled in the cities of the plain, and pitched [his] tent toward Sodom. Gen.13:12
I'm not saying I am righteous. I was using it as an example. Just because one person is righteous, it DOESN'T make you righteous! Lot was not a righteous man because his uncle was. Something to note is, his soul was called righteous.
[bible='2 Peter 2:8'][/bible]
We are lights wherever we go. I got pumped alot over the fact that I joined a rugby league team. Look at them, they're a swearing, drinking mob. I was accused of trying to evangelise by joining them. Actually, I was just living life! I'm not playing rugby league for the express purpose of being a witness. I'm playing because that is my passion. For those who say it's worldly, I beg to differ, there was a time when all the league players WERE Christian. They aren't anymore. Could it be that something is wrong with Christianity?!
Lot was just a man, trying to live the way God wanted him to in a region of total depravity. I admire him. The Bible says nothing about him being strong or doing any great exploits, but yet, he remained righteous and stood tall for God in a city that was totally corrupt.
Let's flip the coin. Was Abraham really any better off? Not really. Listen to what the Scripture said about the inhabitants of Canaan just four hundred years later: Lev 18:25 And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants. Abraham was perhaps not in so bad a region, but it was bad all the same! I get sick of hearing people tell me that rugby league is so vile. I firmly believe that the GREATEST danger to a Christian is from those who profess Christianity.
I've been a little round-about in my explanation. Let me answer this directly now. "Something to consider is that Lot lived among the Sodomites and I don't think he was sent there by God to evangelize." Guess what? If NO ONE will dare to stand up in these areas of darkness, how will those people be saved? Except one dare to walk up to the gates of Hell and command them to open, nothing is going to happen! How will they hear without a preacher? I'm not about to condemn Lot because he lived in Sodom, anymore then I condemn those who work with homosexuals, which is absolutely nil.
Jesus wasn't an ordinary man, or his death on the cross would be of NO avail and we would still be in our sins. Jesus had the Spirit of the Father of Eternity inside him. It was through his sacrifice on the cross that we can be saved. Abraham WAS NOT God, he was just a man. There is no way that Lot could have a righteous soul because Abraham was righteous. My dad cannot decide whether I'm righteous, neither my mother. I cannot do it for my parents either. Each person is responsible for their own salvation. There is the special instance of babies, where the parent's faith can sanctify them. Lot was not a baby. The only way Lot could be righteous was if he WAS righteous! Instead of trying to prove an opinion put forward by man, why can't we try and prove what the Bible says? The Bible says nothing about Lot in a negative sense, rather, it says that he was righteous! It uses him as an example of the Believer in the end times!
1Co 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
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