Repent!

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aspen

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Used as a battle cry for the condemnation of humanity throughout the history of the church, the word repent has often been received by people inside the church, not as a gentle invitation to change behavior, but as a strong-armed, directive to question self-worth and the quality of their relationship with God. Outside the church, people who are subjected to this approach of 'sharing the good news', react appropriately, as if they are experiencing an unjustified attack from illegitimate zealots.

Christians need to take back the word repent from those who believe Jesus came to condemn us, rather than love and forgive humanity. I really like Thomas Keating's definition of the word in his booklet, 'The Human Condition', 'Change the direction that you look for your happiness.' Choosing to engage in destructive behavior or sin, is a bad habit we have learned, but we are no longer forced to continue engaging in. The Creation story tells us that Adam and Eve believed they were going to be 'like gods' by learning a new behavior - the ability to make a choice between the good and evil. Instead, their actions took away humanity's ability to make good choices - we became lovers of cutting corners, tricking and cheating others for our own benefit. Indeed, we were narcissistic to the core of our beings; Christ came to give us back the ability to choose the good. As Paul says, we are to 'throw off the Old Man, or our habit of worldliness - rooted in grandiose, narcissistic behavior.

Although humanity was duped in the beginning, the unforgivable sin was not eating the fruit - it was refusing to take personal responsibility for our actions. 'Where are you?', God asked, 'we are hiding because we are naked' (getting exposed or being seen for who they really are is the most terrifying possibility for a narcissist to imagine - in order to escape, they hide behind a grandiose, manufactured version of the ego), Adam replied. 'Who told you that were naked?", God asked - then the fingers start pointing in every direction - the serpent, the women, not me! Their inability to take personal responsibility placed a wedge in their relationship with God that existed until Jesus forgave us.

Peace
 

a3m24ie

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Christians need to take back the word repent from those who believe Jesus came to condemn us, rather than love and forgive humanity.

I don't understand what you mean by this, nor your overall point. Are you saying we should stop preaching repentance? Wouldn't that go against Jesus Christ's preaching? Wouldn't that go against John the Baptist's preaching--the greatest of all prophets (according to Jesus)?

Jesus DID come to save the world and not condemn the world, but it also says that we already ARE condemned... so we need to repent in order that we can receive salvation.
 

jiggyfly

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I don't understand what you mean by this, nor your overall point. Are you saying we should stop preaching repentance? Wouldn't that go against Jesus Christ's preaching? Wouldn't that go against John the Baptist's preaching--the greatest of all prophets (according to Jesus)?

Jesus DID come to save the world and not condemn the world, but it also says that we already ARE condemned... so we need to repent in order that we can receive salvation.

The Greek word μετανοέω or metanoeō translated as repent, simply means to change the way you think.
 

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Christians need to take back the word repent from those who believe Jesus came to condemn us, rather than love and forgive humanity.

Strange statement, since I have never heard a sermon preached on repentance either during worship services or on TV.

There are the occasional sandwich boards being paraded around town, but other than that 'repent' is a foreign word.

I don't think it should be dropped. It should be remembered.

Although humanity was duped in the beginning, the unforgivable sin was not eating the fruit - it was refusing to take personal responsibility for our actions.

Well now you have certainly hit the nail on the head with that one. Responsibility?
Let's see, we used to know what responsibility was. hmmmm

You know, I don't recall ever hearing a message about that word either.
 

Amazing Grace

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2CO 7:8 Even if I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it. Though I did regret it--I see that my letter hurt you, but only for a little while-- 9 yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to repentance. For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us. 10 Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.

JER 8:6 I have listened attentively, but they do not say what is right.
No one repents of his wickedness, saying, "What have I done?"
Each pursues his own course like a horse charging into battle.

EZE 18:30 "Therefore, O house of Israel, I will judge you, each one according to his ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. 31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, O house of Israel? 32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

Seems to me repenting takes a bit more than just changing one mind. It engages the heart and requires some action.

The Churches I have been a member of over the years have all preached repentance not as a condemnation but as a requirement of salvation. Mind you they are Protestant Churches that have not gone liberal yet.

I have noticed it's absence lately when people have been preaching some sort of Gospel message these days.

I have never heard of repentance taught in the way the OP had described. I'm not saying it hasn't as I haven't been all around the world in every Church there is. Just I have never heard pf the word repentance used like that.

Repentance is a requirement of salvation but not many people will agree with me on that one these days.
 
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jiggyfly

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Repentance is a requirement of salvation but not many people will agree with me on that one these days.

One reason people have differences concerning repentance is because there are varied interpretations of what it means in the context of scriptures. In John the baptist's message the Greek word translated as "repent" is metanoeō and it literally means to change the way you think. But it's not just a change from sinful thinking to religious thinking, religious paradigm is still very worldly, both are still very carnal. But putting it in line with the scriptures we can get a better idea on what kind of change needs to take place in our thinking.



Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will know what God wants you to do, and you will know how good and pleasing and perfect his will really is. Romans 12:2
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Amazing Grace

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One reason people have differences concerning repentance is because there are varied interpretations of what it means in the context of scriptures. In John the baptist's message the Greek word translated as "repent" is metanoeō and it literally means to change the way you think. But it's not just a change from sinful thinking to religious thinking, religious paradigm is still very worldly, both are still very carnal. But putting it in line with the scriptures we can get a better idea on what kind of change needs to take place in our thinking.


Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will know what God wants you to do, and you will know how good and pleasing and perfect his will really is. Romans 12:2

And God has actually given us his Spirit (not the world's spirit) so we can know the wonderful things God has freely given us. When we tell you this, we do not use words of human wisdom. We speak words given to us by the Spirit, using the Spirit's words to explain spiritual truths. But people who aren't Christians can't understand these truths from God's Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them because only those who have the Spirit can understand what the Spirit means.1 Cor. 2:12-14

Jiggyfly

No idea what you are saying? Are you accusing me of pushing some sort of religious indoctrination?

You deny that the Bible says there has to be some sort of heart change for a person to repent and that it is all in the head ONLY to start off with. That there is no need for any engagement of the heart at the same time?

2CO 7:8 Even if I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it. Though I did regret it--I see that my letter hurt you, but only for a little while-- 9 yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to repentance. For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us. 10 Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death. 11 See what this godly sorrow has produced in you: what earnestness, what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what alarm, what longing, what concern, what readiness to see justice done.

Paul here is saying the Godly sorrow brings repentance. He is not taking about something that occurs after being Saved in this verse.

DT 4:29 But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul. 30 When you are in distress and all these things have happened to you, then in later days you will return to the LORD your God and obey him. 31 For the LORD your God is a merciful God; he will not abandon or destroy you or forget the covenant with your forefathers, which he confirmed to them by oath.

Here Moses has written to us clearly that when you SEEK God it involves your HEART not just your head or mind as you are trying to tell me.

JER 29:13 You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. 14 I will be found by you," declares the LORD,

Again it is obvious that the person who is Seeking is not a saved believer but separated from the Lord at the time they are seeking Him. Again it requires the non-Believers heart.

2CH 6:36 "When they sin against you--for there is no one who does not sin--and you become angry with them and give them over to the enemy, who takes them captive to a land far away or near; 37 and if they have a change of heart in the land where they are held captive, and repent and plead with you in the land of their captivity and say, `We have sinned, we have done wrong and acted wickedly'; 38 and if they turn back to you with all their heart and soul in the land of their captivity where they were taken, and pray toward the land you gave their fathers, toward the city you have chosen and toward the temple I have built for your Name; 39 then from heaven, your dwelling place, hear their prayer and their pleas, and uphold their cause. And forgive your people, who have sinned against you.

The above verses giev you a clear PROCESS of what has to happen when a Non-Believer and Enemy of God or an UnSaved person wants to get SAVED! They have to not only Change their MINDS but do so with ALL THEIR HEART.

There is no separation. Repentance involves both the MIND & HEART.

I don't care if the GREEK have only one definition for the word to repent. It is obvious through other scripture in the Bible GOD EXPECTS MORE than just changing your mind.

My apologies for being sharp and using caps for emphasis.

One more thing repentance occurs before salvation and any Spiritual change in the person that makes them New in Christ and able to follow God's commandments.

Repentance is occuring while these people are still enemies of God and literally Sinners.
 
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jiggyfly

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Jiggyfly

No idea what you are saying? Are you accusing me of pushing some sort of religious indoctrination?

You deny that the Bible says there has to be some sort of heart change for a person to repent and that it is all in the head ONLY to start off with. That there is no need for any engagement of the heart at the same time?

My post was not directed at anyone specifically, merely pointed out what the scriptures declare. Can you post some scriptures to support your belief?
 

Amazing Grace

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My post was not directed at anyone specifically, merely pointed out what the scriptures declare. Can you post some scriptures to support your belief?

You mean to say you have not looked at the scriptures I have already posted? :huh:

IF you haven't seen the scriptures I have already posted I don't know what else to do for you. I'm not an optometrist. :rolleyes:
 

aspen

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Seems to me repenting takes a bit more than just changing one mind. It engages the heart and requires some action.

The Churches I have been a member of over the years have all preached repentance not as a condemnation but as a requirement of salvation. Mind you they are Protestant Churches that have not gone liberal yet.

I have noticed it's absence lately when people have been preaching some sort of Gospel message these days.

I have never heard of repentance taught in the way the OP had described. I'm not saying it hasn't as I haven't been all around the world in every Church there is. Just I have never heard pf the word repentance used like that.

Repentance is a requirement of salvation but not many people will agree with me on that one these days.

You have raised a good point - repentance involves mind, heart, action. It is a complete turn around and submission. If you are interested in exploring the idea of repentance I am talking about - google Thomas Keating - beware, he is a Trappist Monk.
 

jiggyfly

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You mean to say you have not looked at the scriptures I have already posted? :huh:

IF you haven't seen the scriptures I have already posted I don't know what else to do for you. I'm not an optometrist. :rolleyes:

I have and just not sure I agree with your interpretation thats all. Maybe if you give your definition of what repentance means in the context of scripture it would help.
smile.gif
 

Amazing Grace

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I have and just not sure I agree with your interpretation thats all. Maybe if you give your definition of what repentance means in the context of scripture it would help.:)

Well you are out of luck as I'm not the Holy Spirit. It's not my job to reveal the Truth of God to you. You will have to pray and ask for the Lord to enable you to see it. :)
 
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jiggyfly

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Well you are out of luck as I'm not the Holy Spirit. It's not my job to reveal the Truth of God to you. You will have to pray and ask for the Lord to enable you to see it. :)

Your right it's not your job nor did I think it was, just wanted you to scripturally support your interpretation.
smile.gif


Jesus said "apart from Me you can do nothing". John 15:5

Repentance, forgiveness,change of mind and heart are the results (fruits) of encountering and experiencing Christ not requisites (requirements).

But I sense your reluctance to discuss your position with reference to the scriptures so we can leave it there and simply disagree.


 

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Choir Loft
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One more thing repentance occurs before salvation and any Spiritual change in the person that makes them New in Christ and able to follow God's commandments.
Repentance is occuring while these people are still enemies of God and literally Sinners.

The use of scripture to justify an opinion is the same as the use of any other external source.
Such an effort attempts to establish proof to the reader or listener that the statement in question is supported by proven fact or authoritative testimony.

Any authoritative source is adequate, but scripture has the added advantage of historic and traditional weight.
It also has the disadvantage of spiritual pretention. The danger of spiritual pretention is that one might presume to speak on behalf of the Almighty by simply quoting something He once said, when in fact one did not have any such heavenly authority at all. In this way are religious divisions created and sustained. (Who might be the author of such a situation?)

The Bible says that God's word will not return void, but who exactly is uttering or reUttering that word when we debate a point? Is it God or a man that's uttering?

An effective use of scripture is as a mirror and a shield for our true spiritual condition and experiences.
On the internet, the administrator of a file server might wish to protect his valuable data by establishing a mirror site; a second server which handles a duplicate copy of the original data. The mirrored server can be attacked or temporarily shut down without fear of compromise to the original data source.

In the same way, scripture can be used to shield one's true heart and will while at the same time providing a tool for promotion of God's agenda.
This is exactly what Jesus did during His temptation. Satan used scripture to justify temptation while Jesus used scripture to 'mirror' what was truly in His heart and what was truly His will. The actual words had no power at all, but were used by both as weapons of their will. As a real sword has no power without the hand that guides it, so does scripture have no power without an effective will behind it. God does it all the time and so can we if we understand what that word is and how to properly use it.

The Bible is the revealed will of God, but is not the will itself. We've got to go to the source for that kind of power and we've got to be REAL HONEST with ourselves, with others and with God when we do. God knows when we're full of ourselves, scripture quotes or not. Oddly, so does everybody else.

When 'Amazing Grace' writes "Repentance is occuring while these people are still enemies of God and literally Sinners", there is NO external reference or authoritative source to back it up. None at all. This is not to say the statement is untrue, but it would have been nice to read some similar statement by another. Quoting the Bible is often a lazy man's way of justifying an opinion.

I do agree with Grace's statement here, I just wish some other reference had been provided as I'd like to use it myself some day.
 

danalkern

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As you can see from my (lack of) number of posts...I am new to this forum.

That being said, I am also fairly new in my faith- and seemingly after each step forward the temptations and the enemy cause me to slip backward for a time.

I just want all those who have posted here to know how much of an impact this thread has had on me, and I thank you.

You see, I was just sitting here thinking of where I am in life (not where I want to be) and how so many wrong turns caused me to be where I am. I am eager to know God's purpose for me and yet I know that I would most likely be ill prepared for it at this point in time. I had just broken out in tears as I tapped away on the keyboard journalizing my thoughts and feelings, when I decided to come back to this site and look for encouragement.

A portion of my journal entry read "When I break down and cry it doesn’t ease my pain. It makes me feel so alone. So ashamed of this life that has become mine. I know there are bright things around me and good works going on, but I can’t see that I am a part of them, and that makes me even more sorrowful. "

I just want you to know that if it hadn't been for this thread I would have went on burdening myself with my own shame of decisions made long ago- however now I am looking at it from a new perspective. You see I was just recently 'moved' in my life, to cast my old role aside and find a new, more godly way of being. And now I know that this sorrow I feel is part of a necessary repentance so that I not only enjoy the life I can have in God's plan, but also so that I remember what I've done and what it's gotten me and repent from those ways. It is so easy as one new in faith to be so caught up in how good it feels to start again, that sometimes we don't even recognize old habits sneaking up on us.

Thanks so much everyone!
 
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Choir Loft
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Mrs. S:

Our lives are hidden in Christ. All of us.
We do not yet see what life may come to, but we may be confident that in Him all things will be done well.

Those aren't just words, though they are certainly good words.

It is not given to man to know the future, nor is it given to man to steer his destiny apart from the grace of God.
What IS given to us is the gift of knowing He who guides us and of knowing that His concern, His work and His decisions are best for us.

The problem as well as the blessing lie in one's heart, that which is called THE WILL.
Anger and frustration enter one's life when something crosses or blocks one's intentions or WILL.
There are times when that 'something' is the work and intent of Christ.
In those times, we are called to put our own will aside and bow to Christ's will, thereby making it our own.
St. Paul likens this process to 'putting on' the new man, like a coat. Same, same.

When that happens there is usually a struggle in the inner man.
We must consciously force our will to yield to Christ even though we may have no good reason to do so EXCEPT JESUS' REPUTATION. Another word for 'reputation' is NAME.

The times of struggle are usually dark, which is to say that we do not feel as warm and fuzzy as we may have in the past.
Christ is still there even if we don't feel real good about it. We live by faith in Jesus' name, which basically means that we yield our desires to Him because we trust Him. Not all desires and not all the time, but when Our Lord points out that it's time to do so - we need to get to it.

The problem with dark dry days is not that Christ has withdrawn, but that the human mind can only focus on one thing at a time. If we're having a problem, that's all we see. Ever notice how pain and trouble focus attention upon themselves? It's because we can only focus on one thing at a time and cannot see or feel good about our faith as we did in happier times.

As in the old hymn we are called to keep our eyes upon Jesus. That's good advice! Reassurance and help is not far away when we look beyond ourselves to our Good Shepard. Always remember that He is there to help and that His blood has paved the way for us to renew our resolve In Jesus' Name. Because He lives I can face tomorrow.

Hope this helps.
 

KennethSam

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"Repentance can be shallow, such as the remorse we feel because of fear of punishment or it can be deep, such as realizing how much our sins cost Jesus the Christ and how his saving grace washes us clean. Many think the word repent means “to get your act together” or to “get religion”. Repentance requires taking in a whole new point of view; looking at it God’s way. God simply asks us to turn. This is the way we accept His gift. When we do, certain outcomes are promised. If we don’t, or we “turn back”, alternate outcomes are promised."



imply put; Confess your sin, and mean it from your heart and don’t repeat it again.

Psalm 145:8 The LORD is gracious, and full of compassion; slow to anger, and of great mercy.
 
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horsecamp

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jiggyfly said:
The Greek word μετανοέω or metanoeō translated as repent, simply means to change the way you think.
thanks jiggy EXACTLY.. we are not only think about being sorry for sins and THINK
thet we will never want to do the sins again .
but also to remember which takes thinking also --------
that were already forgiven by what Christ has done on the cross ..

we know this from what else God tells us in scripture on what we should think.


a bible quote "The law came through moses grace and truth came through Jesus christ."



Aspen did a good job letting us know lets not forget about Gods grace in Jesus when we repent because it the major part of repentance.. with out faith in what Jesus has done repentance is worthless and were still HEADED FOR HELL exactly what God does not want to happen to us.........