responding to shooting.

[THE Gypsy]

I am appolled at some of these response for those who claim to follow Christ. Did Christ carry a gun?

I don't believe Horace Smith and Daniel B. Wesson had been born yet. However the weapon of choice in those times was the sword.

Then said he unto them, But now, he that has a purse, let him take it, and likewise his pouch: and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one Luke 22:36

The problem is not that law abiding citizens have guns. The problem is, as with every other perversion in this world, is that Satan's time is runnig out and he is heating up the battle.

 

[afaithfulone4u]

I don't believe Horace Smith and Daniel B. Wesson had been born yet. However the weapon of choice in those times was the sword.

Then said he unto them, But now, he that has a purse, let him take it, and likewise his pouch: and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one Luke 22:36

The problem is not that law abiding citizens have guns. The problem is, as with every other perversion in this world, is that Satan's time is runnig out and he is heating up the battle.

Here is the only sWord that we are to carry:
Eph 6:17
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
KJV
Matt 26:53
52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
KJV

It may be true that only the lawbreakers will still have the artillary, but that is what shows God who is obedient to His Word and who isn't. Our concern as ambassadores of Christ... the King of Peace is not to return evil for evil or take vengence or even lean upon our own hands for protection if you are walking in faith then your helping hand is from the Lord, not man as being our own god. Faith says God is real and will protect, unbelief says if I don't take care of myself who is?
Blessing

 

[THE Gypsy]

Here is the only sWord that we are to carry:
Eph 6:17
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
KJV

Oh...So Jesus was telling his disciples to BUY the "sword of the Spirit"! Thanks for that clarification.

Matt 26:53
52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
KJV

Yes, that's what he said and it was applicable to that situation. Context is everything.

It may be true that only the lawbreakers will still have the artillary, but that is what shows God who is obedient to His Word and who isn't. Our concern as ambassadores of Christ... the King of Peace is not to return evil for evil or take vengence.....

Being obedient does not mean being a door mat...or being used for target practice. Self defense is not "vengeance".

.... or even lean upon our own hands for protection if you are walking in faith then your helping hand is from the Lord, not man as being our own god.
Blessing

Personally...if I ever find myself in a situation where I'm in danger of being raped, killed, or one of my loved ones are under the same threat, I will not have to rely on any man to protect me or them. I will rely on God to steady my hand that is holding my S&W.

Faith says God is real and will protect, unbelief says if I don't take care of myself who is?
Blessing

Faith does not require us to check our brains at the throne. Faith also says God will supply our needs. Do you work for money to buy food, clothing, etc or did God provide a sofa for you to sit on while he drops mana from Heaven?

 

[Dan57]

.. the King of Peace is not to return evil for evil or take vengence or even lean upon our own hands for protection if you are walking in faith then your helping hand is from the Lord, not man as being our own god.

Self-defense is not evil, nor is it vengeance. I don't believe God expects Christians to be willing victims. If someone commits murder, God instructed us to kill them (Deuteronomy 19:11-13). That's not vengeance, its Justice. Pacifism doesn't work, God did not write 'Victim" on our foreheads or paint targets on our backs. God expects us to protect the innocent and Jesus didn't change the law. Turning the other cheek is suggested to avoid conflict, and praying for your enemies is asking God to correct them. I believe we're suppose to go the extra mile to get along, but willfully allowing evil people to harm others was not the intent of Christ message in Matthew 5. JMO

 

[afaithfulone4u]

Oh...So Jesus was telling his disciples to BUY the "sword of the Spirit"! Thanks for that clarification.



Yes, that's what he said and it was applicable to that situation. Context is everything.


Being obedient does not mean being a door mat...or being used for target practice. Self defense is not "vengeance".


Personally...if I ever find myself in a situation where I'm in danger of being raped, killed, or one of my loved ones are under the same threat, I will not have to rely on any man to protect me or them. I will rely on God to steady my hand that is holding my S&W.

Faith does not require us to check our brains at the throne. Faith also says God will supply our needs. Do you work for money to buy food, clothing, etc or did God provide a sofa for you to sit on while he drops mana from Heaven?

First, we must always rightly divide the Word of God. A spiritual one would understand that the garment we are to sell is our fleshly garment that is tainted with sinfulness and buy a sWord, meaning to put all of your earthly treasures into sowing to the Spirit(spiritual growth or learning) so that you will be well equiped to fight the good fight of faith for that is where evil comes from, by covering yourself in Christ... who is the Word of God hence our sWord of the Spirit so that we can use the weapon in our mouth to bring God's protection into the picture.

I seen this on the news one day. A robber came into a store and two ladies, one the clerk and one a customer, were talking. And the would be robber came in with gun and said give me all your money. The clerk OBVIOUSLY a TRUE BELIEVER did not give him anything. She whipped our her sWord and said:
In the name of JESUS CHRIST GET OUT OF HERE! The would be robber was so confused and shaken he RAN out of that store.
That is how WE fight evil! For in the end Every knee shall bow at the name of Jesus.... which is THE WORD OF GOD.
Luke 10:20
20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.
KJV

ONE WARNING!! IF YOU DO NOT KNOW WHO YOU ARE IN CHRIST.....THEN DON'T TRY THIS FOR IT IS FOR TRUE BELIEVERS THAT KNOW THE WORD.

Acts 19:13-16
13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.
14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.
15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?
16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.
KJV


Those who continue to put their trust in what they can see in their own hand more than the God they can not see, are in unbelief. Because the Just shall live by faith. I say that because the Bible tells us so.
Heb 10:38
38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
KJV
The carnal man must see it before they will believe, the spiritual man who trusts in God even though they can not see, are the ones walking in faith. For faith is the substance of things hoped for, and the EVIDENCE of the thing not yet seen
Heb 11:1-3
11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
KJV

It is like when we ask God to heal us... then go to the medicine cabinet to get something that we can see, having more trust in the pill/sorcery that we see that is supposed to heal us. This shows lack of confidence in God or unbelief. Because if we trusted in God, then why do we need to pill? We will see nothing from God when we act in unbelief, because He knows first of all that we are not going to give HIM the first fruit of the lip credit for any healing we may receive. We always look for the natural thing be it a man/physician, exercise, eating better, a medication or something WE DID before we ever think it was GOD. And second, He will not share His glory with anyone or thing.

 

[THE Gypsy]

Good luck with that, kid.

 

[afaithfulone4u]

Self-defense is not evil, nor is it vengeance. I don't believe God expects Christians to be willing victims. If someone commits murder, God instructed us to kill them (Deuteronomy 19:11-13). That's not vengeance, its Justice. Pacifism doesn't work, God did not write 'Victim" on our foreheads or paint targets on our backs. God expects us to protect the innocent and Jesus didn't change the law. Turning the other cheek is suggested to avoid conflict, and praying for your enemies is asking God to correct them. I believe we're suppose to go the extra mile to get along, but willfully allowing evil people to harm others was not the intent of Christ message in Matthew 5. JMO

Ok, Can you show me from scripture where Jesus made exception for us to kill for self defense?

I can show you many that say contrary such as this one that specifically says not to kill and the fact that it does NOT say, unless you have good reason, tells me there are no exceptions to the rule:
Matt 5:21-22
21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
KJV

We who are Spirit led should understand that these people need Christ, they are not theirself for they are under the influence of their father the devil, but God loves them and wants us to set them Free, not help Satan to kill them, especially before they are saved. Carnal man uses physical forces that leeds to death, spiritual man uses the Word of God which is Spirit and leeds to life.

Good luck with that, kid.

KID?
Heb 5:12-6:1
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
KJV

 

[THE Gypsy]

Don't know if any of you watched the inter-faith gathering tonight but if you did, I'd be interested in your opinion.

For mine...

1. Obama is going to use this to move ahead the agenda on gun control.

2. Of all the faiths represented, the most compassionate, most understanding of the grief the people are feeling, most consoling, and most feeling of them all was the Muslim. There were several "Christian" sects represented...Lutheran , Catholic, Methodist, etc and none of them came close to meeting the comfort needs of the people. Sad indeed.

Time for a reality check.

 

[Warrior]

My response to the shooting:

 

[HammerStone]

I believe that the story was that this individual was denied purchasing a gun himself, correctly and by the law because he did not want to wait 14 days. This reportedly occurred earlier in the week and show that there are reasonable checks on balancing gun ownership with the right to bear arms.

The real issue that continues to go unnoticed in all of these tragic events (occurring as far away as gun-unfriendly Norway), is that these people very often fit a very similar (if not the same) pattern of behavior. Yet somehow these extremes go almost unnoticed; everyone remarks about them but then we ignore what they might mean. The reality in all of this is that our country (friends, families, etc) have a serious problem with community. Everyone is so completely enmeshed in their own lives that we're not seeing the obvious signs or putting two and two together.

We can ban and outlaw the tools, but other tools will be developed.

As has already been posted, the Christian knows why schools and public places are becoming more and more dangerous, and it absolutely has a ton to do with Whom is kept out.

Right now, the great need is to minister to the victims of this unimaginable tragedy. We need to minister for Jesus, and let him work. There is only one who can possibly make anything come out of this, so as Christians we should turn to him and not to laws one way or another. The reality is that these shooters are matters of the heart, and not matters of lead and steel. Until we get that, we will only medicate the symptoms and not the disease.

 

[revturmoil]

Don't know if any of you watched the inter-faith gathering tonight but if you did, I'd be interested in your opinion.

For mine...

1. Obama is going to use this to move ahead the agenda on gun control.

2. Of all the faiths represented, the most compassionate, most understanding of the grief the people are feeling, most consoling, and most feeling of them all was the Muslim. There were several "Christian" sects represented...Lutheran , Catholic, Methodist, etc and none of them came close to meeting the comfort needs of the people. Sad indeed.

Time for a reality check.

I really consider your reply a disgusting one. First of all I disagree about "the Muslim." Their soft spoken compassionate rhetoric is a common tact of their evil nature....And you've fallen for it. You don't know whether or not Obama will move ahead with gun control. I've been an avid hunter over the years and do believe that we need strick gun laws. Not that we should take guns out of the hands of all people. But that we should make some laws on who and how people acquire and secure them. It's not the gun that killed those children it's the person.
But even more disturbing is your senseless reply about Christian 'sects' like Lutheran, Catholic, and Methodist coming together. They are not sects. The people who have deceived you into thinking that they are... are the same ones who discourage Christian unity and say that it's a bad thing. They are also the ones who attribute the evils of the end-time to the church. Ecumenism is a biblical principle taught all over the Word of God. What you're doing is calling good evil and you're part of the "hollier than thou" crowd. It's no wonder people avoid Christianity like the plague. Demonizing the Church is Satan's work and you're right in the middle of it and should be embarrased to promote such evil.
And by the way I'm a Catholic and refuse to call myself a Protestant. Your reply is the main reason why!

 

[biggandyy]

Strict gun laws???

Federal gun law in 2005:
93,354 words in 271 numbered statutes

Arizona gun law in 2006:
36,645 words in 183 numbered statutes

Virginia gun law in 2006:
45,494 words in 191 numbered statutes

Texas gun law in 2005:
49,442 words in 226 numbered statutes

California gun law in 1998:
158,643 words in 541 numbered statutes

Florida gun law in 1998:
46,585 words in 229 numbered statutes

FYI, the Supreme Court had heard 92 gun-related cases through 2002 totaling 337,141 words).
from here

That is not an exhaustive list by any means, but if we haven't come up with commonsense gun laws by now using over half a million words there is something very wrong. It's not reasonable to believe the government wants to have a commonsense approach to guns and their ownership. It's a giant confusopoly with the end result of making everyone a criminal in one fashion or another.

 

[revturmoil]

Strict gun laws???

That is not an exhaustive list by any means, but if we haven't come up with commonsense gun laws by now using over half a million words there is something very wrong. It's not reasonable to believe the government wants to have a commonsense approach to guns and their ownership. It's a giant confusopoly with the end result of making everyone a criminal in one fashion or another.

We have some of the most lax gun laws on the planet. The Arab world probably has the worlds' most lax gun laws since I don't think they don't have any at all!. I'm a gun owner and have a permit to carry concealed. I'm not in favor of taking guns out of the hands of people. I am in favor of better control over the people who sell and own them to help prevent them from getting into the wrong hands. The man who commited this crime took the guns from his mother who probably had them unsecure. All I'm saying is that as a country we can do better. Gun control is simply another republican scare tactic.

 

[biggandyy]

Why, the gun laws worked in CT. The guy did not get sold a weapon when he wanted it so he resorted to illegal means.

Laws don't stop criminals, that's why they're called criminals.

 

[revturmoil]

Why, the gun laws worked in CT. The guy did not get sold a weapon when he wanted it so he resorted to illegal means.

Laws don't stop criminals, that's why they're called criminals.

Maybe you didn't read my entire reply. What I meant was that we need laws to have people who already own them secure them better etc. I'm sure that we can do something to help prevent these things somewhat. Believe me I'm not against gun ownership. Only that those owners need better security of them etc. Something can be done. Even if it deters only one person from commiting a mass shouting it's worth it.

 

[Axehead]

Ok, here is something that no one has talked about. Let's have a referendum on the drugs that are given to these kids at 9-10-11 years old (Ritalin for example) that screw them up for life. Pharmaceutical companies have a powerful lobby and and adulterous relationship with the FDA. It is a revolving door where FDA officials end up working for the Pharmaceuticals when they leave their government job. My sister has two boys that were put on drugs around 10 years old and it rendered them "learning delayed", well into their 20s. These drugs have other effects besides "learning delay".

I believe the Columbine shooters were on drugs to control their ADHD, also. There was no ADHD when I was growing up, but there was corporal punishment in the schools for boys that were unruly (not drugs).

 

[revturmoil]

Ok, here is something that no one has talked about. Let's have a referendum on the drugs that are given to these kids at 9-10-11 years old (Ritalin for example) that screw them up for life. Pharmaceutical companies have a powerful lobby and and adulterous relationship with the FDA. It is a revolving door where FDA officials end up working for the Pharmaceuticals when they leave their government job. My sister has two boys that were put on drugs around 10 years old and it rendered them "learning delayed", well into their 20s. These drugs have other effects besides "learning delay".

I believe the Columbine shooters were on drugs to control their ADHD, also. There was no ADHD when I was growing up, but there was corporal punishment in the schools for boys that were unruly (not drugs).

More people die from overdoses of prescription drugs than illegal drugs. So...I AGREE!

 

[kna325]

As far as letting God and prayer back into schools I fully agree with that.
However I don't think he ever left the schools. No law is going to keep him out, all it would take is one believer, isn't god with everyone who believes? So he was there. What the purpose of that day was is beyond me.

I do FIRMLY believe we should have better security in all schools which includes metal detectors and a guard on premisis at the metal detectors at all times. I had this in my high school which was a very dangerous school but never once was a weapon brought in because it was caught in security before they could get inside

 

[revturmoil]

As far as letting God and prayer back into schools I fully agree with that.
However I don't think he ever left the schools. No law is going to keep him out, all it would take is one believer, isn't god with everyone who believes? So he was there. What the purpose of that day was is beyond me.

I do FIRMLY believe we should have better security in all schools which includes metal detectors and a guard on premisis at the metal detectors at all times. I had this in my high school which was a very dangerous school but never once was a weapon brought in because it was caught in security before they could get inside

I agree. Problem is that the school at Newtown had all the doors locked and Lanza shot his way into it through a window.

 

[THE Gypsy]

I really consider your reply a disgusting one.

Too bad you couldn't put aside your bias and self righteousness to actually read what I said. It was simply an observation.

First of all I disagree about "the Muslim." Their soft spoken campassionate rhetoric is a common tact of their evil nature....And you've fallen for it.

I haven't "fallen" for anything. I haven't "fallen" for anything. i was addressing this single event, what was said, and how the different faiths responded to the needs of the people. What did you find that was so offensive about what he said?

You don't know whether or not Obama will move ahead with gun control.

You don't know that he won't. I believe I clearly stated my comment was my OPINION, not a statement of fact. What did Obama say that lead you to believe otherwise? As far as whether or not it plays out that way...time will tell. When he makes his move...I'll be the first to say "I told you so".

. I've been an avid hunter over the years and do believe that we need strick gun laws. Not that we should take guns out of the hands of all people. But that we should make some laws on who and how people acquire and secure them.

As has already been pointed out...we HAVE gun laws. Did they prevent this from happening? It is really sad when people see the need for the government to be the solution to everything.

It's not the gun that killed those children it's the person.

That' the smartest thing you said it your entire post.

But even more disturbing is your senseless reply about Christian 'sects' like Lutheran, Catholic, and Methodist coming together.

Again...too bad you didn't actually read what I said. It was NOT about "them coming together". That's simply you throwing the ole red herring into the ring instead of addressing the issue at hand.

They are not sects./quote]


Yes, they are...Here's part of the definition in case you missed it...

Sect -

b : a religious denomination
2
archaic : sex 1
3
a : a group adhering to a distinctive doctrine or to a leader

The people who have deceived you into thinking that they are... are the same ones who discourage Christian unity and say that it's a bad thing.

No one has "deceived" me. I made an observation of what took place at ONE particular event and commented on it. You may think such a sweeping, all encompassing statement is a testament of your clarvoyance and mind reading powers, however, you are WAY off.

They are also the ones who attribute the evils of the end-time to the church.

I guess you must know more about that than I do since I do not hang with those kind of zealots.

What you're doing is calling good evil and you're part of the "hollier than thou" crowd.

No, that's your faulty mind reading capabilities at work, again. I made no statements about good OR evil. Once again...I made an observation, compassionately looking through the eyes of the people going through this tradegy, at what they were witnessing and how it may be perceived by them.

It's no wonder people avoid Christianity like the plague.

I can think of many reasons that is true. A handful of those reasons were indeed on display during this gathering.

Demonizing the Church is Satan's work and you're right in the middle of it and should be embarrased to promote such evil.

Please quote where I "demonized the church " and "promoted evil".

And I am not "embarrassed" by anything I said. Your attitude that the church is above constructive critisism and has no need to look inside to continue to allow God the authority of course correction, is but one of the many reasons people "avoid Christianity like the plague".

What ever happened to "iron sharpening iron"? Or was that verse left out of your version?

And by the way I'm a Catholic and refuse to call myself a Protestant.

Well, that explains everything.

Besides...if you're catholic...why would you?

your reply is the main reason why!

Quite frankly, I'm surprised you can make that statement since you obviously didn't really read my reply, or you were so blinded by the absolute perfection of the view from your pedestal. Either way...better go get a refund on your mind reading lessons. You're failing miserably.