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Resurrection, Past or Future?

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by Rocky Wiley, Sep 28, 2014.

  1. Rocky Wiley

    Rocky Wiley Active Member

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    Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
    Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
    God is telling Daniel there would come a time of trouble that had never happened before and at that time and thy people (Israel), who were found written in the book (book of life) would be delivered (resurected).

    Dan 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
    All of these things would happen at the time of the end (end of the age).

    Dan 12:13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.
    Now Daniel is being told that he would also stand in thy lot (with his people) at the end of the days (end of the age).

    We can see that the above scriptures are speaking about the last days of God’s covenant with Israel.

    Does this agree with the New Testament? Let’s have a look.

    Mat 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
    Jesus and his disciples would sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
    Again, back to Daniel,
    Dan 12:1 and at that time thy people shall be delivered
    Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

    Jesus to his disciples,
    Luk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
    Luk 22:30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

    Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus
    Judgment was given to the souls (those in spiritual bodies) that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus (disciples) that had been foretold of this matter.

    Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

    Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

    There was opened the book of life. The other book was the one the rest of the dead were judged by, the book of law they were to live by, (their works).

    Dan 12:1 and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

    We do not see at any place the judgment of Christians, but we do see that disciples (Christians) were already sitting with Jesus around the throne.

    The resurrection and judgment was to come upon the Jews, not Christians. Why is that? Because we repented of our sins when we came to God, and we have been forgiven.

    1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

    We are living during a time that many false prophecy teachers speak of a future coming of Jesus because they are blind to the word of God. One only has to look at the above scriptures to prove them wrong.

    Our resurrection happens just as it did with the disciples, when we pass from this earth.

    Study it and God will bless!
  2. KingJ

    KingJ New Member

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    A false teacher teaches falsely. Those who disagree with you do so honestly / innocently. Rom 14:5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.

    You can't debunk another's scriptural belief by quoting scripture that says something different. You need to take yours and add theirs. All scripture must be pieced together.

    Rev 22:12 Look, I am coming soon, bringing my reward with me to repay all people according to their deeds.
    Rev 22:20 He who is the faithful witness to all these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon!” Amen! Come, Lord Jesus.
    Rev 3:11 I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take away your crown.
    Phil 4:5 Let everyone see that you are considerate in all you do. Remember, the Lord is coming soon.

    Luke 17:37 Where will this happen, Lord?” the disciples asked. Jesus replied, “Just as the gathering of vultures shows there is a carcass nearby, so these signs indicate that the end is near.”

    and most importantly Matt 25:13 Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.

    A belief in the rapture has the potential to do how much damage to a believer exactly?
  3. Rocky Wiley

    Rocky Wiley Active Member

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    God’s word is true and the only way man can speak spiritual truth is to agree with God. One can not disagree with God’s word and still be right with God.

    Below, Jesus is speaking to the scribes and Pharisees, the religious leaders of their day. The following scriptures would also pretain to the religious leaders of our day, for they are the ones who claim to be knowledgeable in God’s word. We must be careful with whom we follow.

    Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
    Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
    They did not understand him because they would not listen to God’s word.

    Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
    Joh 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
    Again, they could not believe him because they continued to believe a lie.

    Joh 8:46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
    Why did they not believe him?

    Joh 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
    They believed him not, because they were not of God.

    If one claims to be a believer, they must agree with God. We can not state our opinion and be right unless it does agree. This is the reason that the first thing in believing is to understand that the bible was not written to us. It was written for us.
    If one can not agree with this, they should be able to quote the scripture that would dispute it.

    Not everyone is right, for only those that agree with God can be right. One is a true believer when they agree with God.

    Study God’s word and be blessed!

  4. Jacob_Rising

    Jacob_Rising New Member

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    Hosea~ The coming of the Lord is as the rain, the former and latter rain.

    There are two comings, one in the spring and one in the fall. Jesus came for the spring and gave people the spring rain, but the prophets say he will come for the fall rains also and we are to pray for the rain.

    Revelation shows Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, the feast of Tabernacles, firstfruits, and Simchat Torah taking place. These things have not happened yet and the easiest way to prove this is by looking at Zechariah 14 because it details the feast of Tabernacles taking place when night has turned into day.

    It also details how the whole world will keep the feast of Tabernacles or they will be punished and this has never happened at any time in history, but it will happen, and Revelation shows it happening when the grapes will be harvested for the feast of Tabernacles. Revelation details just how many people die when this takes place. The treading of the grapes depicts a very wide river of blood that will be 4 feet deep and flow for 200 miles.

    But Revelation is for all generations, and it is showing how to walk a particular path just like Jesus walked,

    Just like Moses went up unto the mountain 40 days in completing this design, but when he had come down the mountain, he found Israel committing spiritual adultery, and so Moses had to go right back up to the mountain for another 40 days and Moses did this beginning and starting over 3 times.

    Jesus tells us to watch, and he is speaking of the 7 feast days we are given to watch and to prepare for his 7 appointed days, and when Jesus is saying,'' Nobody knows the day,'' he is in fact telling us that it is Rosh Hashanah, the day that is not spoken of by the congregation because we are to keep it hidden from Satan.

    This day is called,'' Yom Hakesah.'' the hidden day.

    This is the first day of the 7th month, but it is also the first day of the 1st month, and what we do not know, is what calendar it will happen on, the civil,. or the sacred.

    Every Rosh Hashanah it is said,'' The kingdoms of the world have become the kingdoms of our Lord.'' That is just one saying that is spoken on Rosh Hashanah and Revelation is filled with events and saying that are spoken and done on exact days.

    Jesus said,'' 2 men in a bed, one taken, the other left behind.''

    The disciple asked,'' Where Lord?''

    Saying,'' Where are they taken?''

    Jesus replied saying,'' where so ever the body is, there the vultures will gather to eat their flesh.

    The one taken is he who dies.

    Paul also shows us this in many, many ways.

    Then we, who remain, will then be gathered.''

    Remain after what?

    Zechariah shows the same thing, '' Then everyone who is left who has come up to fight Jerusalem will then keep the feast of tabernacles.''

    Over, and Over and Over we are shown that the majority of the wicked die, and then those who remain are the righteous, not the wicked.
    Most Christians aren't aware of all the little traditions, prayers, promises, and hopes of the feast days, and they are not aware that we await upon a warning if we are living in the days when the fall rain will be given.

    The disciples were counting the omer right up until the promise was given, and they were warned by Jesus to stay in prayer, and to wait for the promise.

    The promise of the rain was given on the same day the law was given, and it was given on Pentecost as the final conclusion day of Passover.

    The fall Holy days also has a day of conclusion and a promise of the giving of spirit, and this day is known for the giving of the law as well. The law begins and ends on Simchat Torah.

    Jesus said that is we will not watch, then we will not know the hour or the day, and this confuses a lot of people because of the scriptures concerning Yom Hakeseh{the hidden day no man knows}.

    But it's not that we will know the hour or the day because we know it's Rosh Hashanah, it's because those who know and watch the times and seasons will be given a warning just as a warning was given before the promise fell at Pentecost.

    Paul also speaks about Jesus coming to the many like a thief breaking into their house{body}, BUT WHAT DOES PAUL SAY?

    He says that we have no need to fear that Jesus will come to us like a thief, Because we know the times and seasons{the 7 appointed days}

    But that was then, and he was speaking to people who knew the times and seasons, and this is no longer the case, most people do not know the times and seasons, and so Jesus will come like a thief to the majority, and he will break inside their houses{bodies}

    But the people who know the times and the seasons will not be taken as if a thief has come in the middle of the night.
  5. Rocky Wiley

    Rocky Wiley Active Member

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    Hello Jacob_Rising

    There are some, probably most, who agree with you. I can not do so because plainly Jesus said that he had come to fulfill all that had been written. That of course was the fulfillment of Old Testament writtings.

    Luk 18:31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
    Luk 18:32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
    Luk 18:33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.

    All things that are written concerning the Son of man, God in the flesh. We also know that the Son of man is Jesus, the Jewish Messiah. 1st Coming.

    Luk 21:5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,
    Luk 21:6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

    Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
    Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
    Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

    In Luke and in Matthew, Jesus was quoted as saying that the temple in Jerusalem would be destroyed. In Matthew the disciples responded by asking when shall these things be? They understood this would mean the end of the age, or judgment day.

    Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
    Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
    Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

    Now Jesus, still speaking to his disciples, said “when ye see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know”. We know some of them did see these things, for the temple was destroyed in 70 AD, still in their generation. 2nd Coming

    In Luk 21:22 he concludes that this would mean the “days of vengeance” would be upon them and “all things which are writen would be fulfilled”. This time “all things” pertain to the end of time, or the last day would be accomplished, which this time would be by the Spirit.

    I just can’t take the opinion of your time table over the word of God. Again, I know many people speak of the same time frames as you, but there are other theologians that go along with the above and this is backed by scripture and history not by private intrepretation.

    Study and be blessed!

  6. Jacob_Rising

    Jacob_Rising New Member

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    I keep the Pesach in truth and in spirit and Paul told us to do this.

    The last Passover is yet to be fulfilled, and Paul tells us this also in speaking about the feasts, that what we had seen thus far is only shadows of things YET TO COME.

    Jesus brought a new covenant but that new covenant is the law of Moses translated.

    For instance.


    Yes, here is just one law.

    1 Corinthians 9
    Doesn’t the Law say the same thing? 9For it is written in the Law of Moses: “Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain.”b Is it about oxen that God is concerned? 10Surely he says this for us, doesn’t he? Yes, this was written for us, because whoever plows and threshes should be able to do so in the hope of sharing in the harvest. 11If we have sown spiritual seed among you, is it too much if we reap a material harvest from you? 12If others have this right of support from you, shouldn’t we have it all the more?

    If we are to tell people of the New covenant and law Jesus brought, it cannot be written or displayed to anyone unless we figure out what the hidden law says.

    ''You shall not boil a kid in his mother's milk.''

    The law of Jesus is not talking about real milk or a real goat, but what is this scripture saying in light of the new law that Jesus brings?

    What is it really saying?

    Each law is this way, a hidden law within each law, hidden treasures that teach of Jesus and his new law.

    If somebody makes a claim that Jesus brought a new covenant and new law, I say,'' Yes.''

    But please display it.

    It does exist, but it can only be found by those who love the law.