Revelation 20: 5&6

[bro.tan]

But the young man was not saved by his faith in the scriptures and good works...................

There is a GLORIOUS TRUTH that is in Matthew 19:16-26

Most people doesn't have a full understanding or break down of the young man situation, so I took the time and broke this situation down.

Let's go back into Matthew 19: 16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Notice the young man says "All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?" The young man didn’t need to ask this question to Jesus, because he was already in a good place with the Lord. This is where the story gets interesting, because if you read the full story which we have to do, to get full understanding. We will see that the keeping of the Commandments Jesus mention wasn't the young man problem, it was something else. We do well learning from this, because it's always something we need to prove in our walk in the Lord.

21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. The young may have been perfect in keeping the Commandments, and doing so he was blessed and had great possession, but when he was ask what he lack, and it was giving up everything to follow Jesus. The young man had a problem with that.

So Jesus says if thou be perfect, that means the young was really close to being perfect, but the young had great riches that he couldn't let go, and that goes with what Jesus says in Matthew (22:37) Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. (38) This is the first and great commandment. This was very hard for the young man to do. So let's recap the story a little, the young man kept the commandments from his youth up, all most perfect, except one thing Jesus ask him to do, and that's sell all his possession and come follow him. This is about the young man heart, he did right by keeping the law from his youth up and he was bless, but his heart toward the lord was not all the way in place.

So let's continue in Matthew 19: 23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. 25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? 26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

 

[Fred J]

i AGREE with @bro.tan and the scriptures you pointed out here of how God gives us "His Good works" to walk in but they are not FOR salvation but they accompany Salvation and are Evidence of being SAVED.

Will go with you, for salvation of an unbeliever, the Gospel message calling for repentance and water baptism for the remission of sins, and baptism of the Holy Ghost, is the first step.

Then once saved begin discipled in All Scripture=Holy Bible, hence may be perfect, thoroughly furnished a man of GOD unto all good works, is the second step.

Finally, step unto the field to minister and witness the same one have received from the beginning, to the world and the church, is the final step in one's lifetime as sojourner on earth.

They're all part of the Gospel in regards salvation for the whole world and the church, until they're proven good and faithful servants by the Lord Jesus Christ.

Philippians 2:
12. Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have alwayss obeyed, not as in my presence only, but how much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

(Apotle Paul minister and witness to the church who are already saved and yet to accomplish more in the matters of salvation)

i am speaking of the young of the young man who THOUGHT he was saved thru good works and scripture study = he was not!!!

Do you understand this???

The young man probably did according to the Law of Moses, but not according to the Prophets.

He's not aware of the Messiah, the purpose of His coming, and the New Covenant GOD's going to make with HIS people Israel, that is in the Prophets.

That's why in the New Covenant and in order to become perfect, sell everything one owns and give it to the poor, and follow Lord Jesus Christ in one's lifetime.

Now do you understand this and agree?

 

[Fred J]

Thank You = Yes, i SEE that some are trying to separate His Coming in the clouds from His then Stepping Down on the Mount of Olives.

The scripture does, but you're 'shortsighted' unable to 'see' afar these things that will come to pass.

This all takes place in His 2nd Coming.

Nonsense!

What happened is on 'air' and in the clouds, the gathering of all His church saints at the 'first resurrection' on His second coming, is an incident by itself.

And what happened on 'earth', the gathering of Lord and His angels to war anti-Christ, the kings of the earth and their armies on His thrid coming, is another incident by itself.

They are 'both' separate incidents!

JESUS does not Descend from Heaven, swoop up the saints and return to Heaven with them = no such prophecy exists in scripture = ANYWHERE.

Are you the consultant of Jesus for Him to change His mind, as He'll only rebuke you, saying;

Matthew 16:
24. But He turned and said unto Peter, "Get thee behind Me, satan: thou art an offense unto Me: for thou savourest not the things that be of GOD, but those that be of men."

'For it is written';

1 Thessalonians 4:
17. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Matthew 24:
30. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man coming in the clouds of Heaven with power nad great glory.

That's what it is, He comes 'in the clouds', the church saints, raised from dead and alive, shall be 'caught up' (not down) 'together in the clouds' (where the Lord is), 'to meet Him in the air'.

The Apostles' such prophecy exist in the scriptures!

Why are these prophecies offensive to you?

It is 100% man-made speculation of a 3rd Coming of Christ for NO SUCH scripture or prophecy or Apostles writings or Revelation contain such a thought.

IMPORTANT: The LORD Keeps me in His Truth and i am ALWAYS OPEN to the HOLY SPIRIT of Truth for correction from the WORD.
If you and @bro.tan find clear prophecy and/or scripture declaring a 3rd Return/Coming of Christ = PLEASE post it for us - Thank You

SHALOM to @Fred J and @bro.tan

Have given you true born again 'readers', clear scripture quotes, minister and witness as well in explanation to you, all according to the written grace and truth in the Holy Bible.

'David', on behalf of all these genuine readers, where is your scripture quotes and explanation related to 'refute' the given mine??

Thank you

 

[David in NJ]

Will go with you, for salvation of an unbeliever, the Gospel message calling for repentance and water baptism for the remission of sins, and baptism of the Holy Ghost, is the first step.

Then once saved begin discipled in All Scripture=Holy Bible, hence may be perfect, thoroughly furnished a man of GOD unto all good works, is the second step.

Finally, step unto the field to minister and witness the same one have received from the beginning, to the world and the church, is the final step in one's lifetime as sojourner on earth.

They're all part of the Gospel in regards salvation for the whole world and the church, until they're proven good and faithful servants by the Lord Jesus Christ.

Philippians 2:
12. Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have alwayss obeyed, not as in my presence only, but how much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

(Apotle Paul minister and witness to the church who are already saved and yet to accomplish more in the matters of salvation)

The young man probably did according to the Law of Moses, but not according to the Prophets.

He's not aware of the Messiah, the purpose of His coming, and the New Covenant GOD's going to make with HIS people Israel, that is in the Prophets.

That's why in the New Covenant and in order to become perfect, sell everything one owns and give it to the poor, and follow Lord Jesus Christ in one's lifetime.

Now do you understand this and agree?

Both you FredJ and @bro.tan are my Brothers in Christ and i love you because HE First Loved us.

"work out your own salvation" is about walking in Salvation = not by earning it = Ephesians 2:8

For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God,
not by works, so that no one can boast.
For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life.

The young man probably did according to the Law of Moses, but not according to the Prophets.

The young man new of the prophets for Moses was the first prophet after the Exodus from Egypt
As such he knew that Moses spoke of more prophets who would come after him.

JESUS Said so: John 5:46
For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me.
But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

The young RICH man was taught that if you kept the 10 Commandments you would be wealthy.
He thought that Jesus would honor his obedience to the 10 Commandments since God had prospered him.

BIG PROBLEM = the young rich man greatly devalued Who was speaking to him.

There is a GLORIOUS Truth in what JESUS said to this man concerning the Commandments and Himself.

@bro.tan and @Fred J , let me know if you can find it = SHALOM my Brothers

 

[David in NJ]

The scripture does, but you're 'shortsighted' unable to 'see' afar these things will come to pass.

Nonsense!

What happened on 'air' and in the clouds, the gatherring of all His church saints at the 'first resurrection' on His second coming, is an incident by itself.

And what happened on 'earth', the gathering of Lord and His angels to war anti-Christ, the kings of the earth and their armies on His thrid coming, is another incident by itself.

They are 'both' separate incidents!

Are you the consultant of Jesus for Him to change His mind, as He'll only rebuke you, saying;

Matthew 16:
24. But He turned and said unto Peter, "Get thee behind Me, satan: thou art an offense unto Me: for thou savourest not the things that be of GOD, but those that be of men."

'For it is written';

1 Thessalonians 4:
17. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Matthew 24:
30. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man coming in the clouds of Heaven with power nad great glory.

That's what it is, He comes 'in the clouds', the church saints, raised from dead and alive, shall be 'caught up' (not down) 'together in the clouds' (where the Lord is), 'to meet Him in the air'.

The Apostles' such prophecy exist in the scriptures!

Why are these prophecies offensive to you?

Have given you true born again 'readers', clear scripture quotes, minister and witness as well in explanation to you, all according to the written grace and truth in the Holy Bible.

'David', on behalf of all these genuine readers, where is your scripture quotes and explanation related to 'refute' the given mine??

Thank you

Well, allow me to rest tonight for tomorrow i have a big day of work and then later i will respond.

SHALOM

 

[Fred J]

Rev 14 is right before the wrath part of the 7 yr gt.
Rev 14 is a Jewish gathering.

I read it like it says.

Read it out of context and merely get the out of context knowledge in return.

That chapter does does minister or witness about before the Great Tribulation, but rather 'after' and judgement prounced on fallen Babylon.

Where in the 'first resurrection' of dead and living in Christ, from the 'firstfruits unto salvation by the Gospel', the remnant of Israel saved by grace, 144, 000 of them in total.

And to the Gentiles as follows saved by the same Gospel and by grace too, who lived through out the Great Tribulation, have not worshiped the beast nor his image, nor received his mark. (vs.12&13)

Apparently, Babylon of anti-Christ and false prophet from the false church have 'fallen' after the Great Tribulation, and are cast alive into the lake of fire.

And likewise the world who worshiped the beast, and his image, and have received his mark, they've been 'reaped' from the earth to endure the wrath of GOD. (vs.10&19)

The 'wrath of GOD' they'll endure with anti-Christ and the false prophet, is in the lake of fire burning with brimstone for ever and ever: and without rest day nor night. (vs.11)


Readers, where does it say the wrath of GOD poured down to earth during the Great Tribulation, apparently close to devestating calamities on earth??

As you can witness, among us many 'gibberish' wanna be teachers, we're to look out for!

 

[David in NJ]

Read it out of context and merely get the out of context knowledge in return.

That chapter does does minister or witness about before the Great Tribulation, but rather 'after' and judgement prounced on fallen Babylon.

Where in the 'first resurrection' of dead and living in Christ, from the 'firstfruits unto salvation by the Gospel', the remnant of Israel saved by grace, 144, 000 of them in total.

And to the Gentiles as follows saved by the same Gospel and by grace too, who lived through out the Great Tribulation, have not worshiped the beast nor his image, nor received his mark. (vs.12&13)

Apparently, Babylon of anti-Christ and false prophet from the false church have 'fallen' after the Great Tribulation, and are cast alive into the lake of fire.

And likewise the world who worshiped the beast, and his image, and have received his mark, they've been 'reaped' from the earth to endure the wrath of GOD. (vs.10&19)

The 'wrath of GOD' they'll endure with anti-Christ and the false prophet, is in the lake of fire burning with brimstone for ever and ever: and without rest day nor night. (vs.11)


Readers, where does it say the wrath of GOD poured down to earth during the Great Tribulation, apparently close to devestating calamities on earth??

As you can witness, among us many 'gibberish' wanna be teachers, we're to look out for!

There is no Jew or Gentile in CHRIST = we are Collectively the One New Man

144,000 is symbolic of all who are in CHRIST = the Israel of God

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a Holy Temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

 

[Fred J]

There is no Jew or Gentile in CHRIST = we are Collectively the One New Man

144,000 is symbolic of all who are in CHRIST = the Israel of God

'Little kid in Christ' and 'wannabe teacher who'll be greatly judged', they are not 'symbolic', nor to do with Gentile Christians.

They are the 'remnant of Israel saved under the election of grace', of Paul in Romans.

And they are the 'firstfruits' unto salvation and in Christ, the 144,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel, 12,000 from each sons of Jacob, of John in Revelation.

Readers, if you're wise discern for yourselves, if we were to combine Jew and Gentile believers in Christ saved by grace?

And from the time of Christ to the 'first resurrection' towards the end of the Great Tribulation, will there be only '144,000'??

When GOD promised Abraham's descendants will be numbering the stars in the sky and sands along the beach??

 

[David in NJ]

'Little kid in Christ' and 'wannabe teacher who'll be greatly judged', they are not 'symbolic', nor to do with Gentile Christians.

They are the 'remnant of Israel saved under the election of grace', of Paul in Romans.

And they are the 'firstfruits' unto salvation and in Christ, the 144,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel, 12,000 from each sons of Jacob, of John in Revelation.

Readers, if you're wise discern for yourselves, if we were to combine Jew and Gentile believers in Christ saved by grace?

And from the time of Christ to the 'first resurrection' towards the end of the Great Tribulation, will there be only '144,000'??

When GOD promised Abraham's descendants will be numbering the stars in the sky and sands along the beach??

You started your day in SIN = Three Sins

a.) Slander and False accusation
b.) Adding to God's words
c.) Denying what God said

 

[rebuilder 454]

Read it out of context and merely get the out of context knowledge in return.

That chapter does does minister or witness about before the Great Tribulation, but rather 'after' and judgement prounced on fallen Babylon.

Where in the 'first resurrection' of dead and living in Christ, from the 'firstfruits unto salvation by the Gospel', the remnant of Israel saved by grace, 144, 000 of them in total.

And to the Gentiles as follows saved by the same Gospel and by grace too, who lived through out the Great Tribulation, have not worshiped the beast nor his image, nor received his mark. (vs.12&13)

Apparently, Babylon of anti-Christ and false prophet from the false church have 'fallen' after the Great Tribulation, and are cast alive into the lake of fire.

And likewise the world who worshiped the beast, and his image, and have received his mark, they've been 'reaped' from the earth to endure the wrath of GOD. (vs.10&19)

The 'wrath of GOD' they'll endure with anti-Christ and the false prophet, is in the lake of fire burning with brimstone for ever and ever: and without rest day nor night. (vs.11)


Readers, where does it say the wrath of GOD poured down to earth during the Great Tribulation, apparently close to devestating calamities on earth??

As you can witness, among us many 'gibberish' wanna be teachers, we're to look out for!

1) the trib is 7 years according to Daniel.
2) in the middle of it ( 3 .5 yrs) the ac desecrates the Holy of Holies.
3) Rev 13 says all recieve the mark or die.
....all of which you call gibberish.

You can not for some reason even discuss it without character assassination.
Face it.
You need it changed
Sad for you. Mr name caller.

Juvenile and sad.

 

[rebuilder 454]

'Little kid in Christ' and 'wannabe teacher who'll be greatly judged', they are not 'symbolic', nor to do with Gentile Christians.

They are the 'remnant of Israel saved under the election of grace', of Paul in Romans.

And they are the 'firstfruits' unto salvation and in Christ, the 144,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel, 12,000 from each sons of Jacob, of John in Revelation.

Readers, if you're wise discern for yourselves, if we were to combine Jew and Gentile believers in Christ saved by grace?

And from the time of Christ to the 'first resurrection' towards the end of the Great Tribulation, will there be only '144,000'??

When GOD promised Abraham's descendants will be numbering the stars in the sky and sands along the beach??

QUOTE
"""And from the time of Christ to the 'first resurrection' towards the end of the Great Tribulation, will there be only '144,000'??""

The bible never says that.
I never said that.
You simply made it up.

Look, you have no idea who or what the 144,000 are.
THE BIBLE is so clear of who they are and what they are.

It would seem impossible to miss.
But you will never read WHAT IT SAYS.
You literally can not do it.

1 THE BIBLE Says they are ethnic Jews.
2) They are numbered so clearly that the Bible Made sure to number them two separate ways, so that nobody starts ascribing wildly, some meaning to them, rather than who they are. And how many they are and what they are.
3) THE bible LABELS THEM as "FIRSTFRUITS"
THEY ARE NOT ASCRIBED "First fruits" so that some doctrine can come along and overlap, "First fruits" as THE same thing as Christ.
They are not a type of Christ.
They are not Christ,
they are not the church.
They are not anything that you guys say they are. They are first fruit AND NUMBERED MESSIANIC JEWS, and that's all they are.
That's all the Bible says they are.
Once THE 144,000 POSTRIBBER train wreck is righted back on the tracks, we have to go back and COMPLETELY START OVER.
PUT THE BIBLE back on the table and leave EVERY COMPONENT concerning the 144,000 INTACT.
THEN STOP acribing wildly some meaning OUTSIDE OF who and what they ACTUALLY ARE.

That is a really good starting place.

Now you have the proper beginning.


WHEW...what a mess you guys make of a plain, vivid dynamic.

But you do so, so recklessly, and with no red flags.!!!!!!

 

[rebuilder 454]

Are you in CHRIST ???

Since 1976.

 

[David in NJ]

Since 1976.

HalleluYAH my Brother in CHRIST

Where did your New Birth in Christ Originate from = Heaven or Earth?

 

[CTK]

'Little kid in Christ' and 'wannabe teacher who'll be greatly judged', they are not 'symbolic', nor to do with Gentile Christians.

They are the 'remnant of Israel saved under the election of grace', of Paul in Romans.

And they are the 'firstfruits' unto salvation and in Christ, the 144,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel, 12,000 from each sons of Jacob, of John in Revelation.

Readers, if you're wise discern for yourselves, if we were to combine Jew and Gentile believers in Christ saved by grace?

And from the time of Christ to the 'first resurrection' towards the end of the Great Tribulation, will there be only '144,000'??

When GOD promised Abraham's descendants will be numbering the stars in the sky and sands along the beach??

For what it is worth... (this is a partial narrative in my commentary on Revelation (in progress)...


If you sit with Daniel long enough, a pattern begins to surface that feels both elegant and deliberate. The seventy-weeks prophecy is not just a timer; it is a roadmap for restoration. In the first sixty-nine weeks—483 years—God sees to it that everything Babylon tore down is raised again. The people come home. The Temple stands again. The sanctuary service resumes. Jerusalem’s streets and walls are rebuilt. Even what isn’t named outright is implied by the logic of restoration: Sabbatical cycles return to Israel’s calendar, Levitical ceremonies and sacrifices take their places once more. It is a full reversal—each piece restored in the mirror order of how it was taken away. Only one element is beyond human hands: the Ark of the Covenant. That first treasure to disappear—hidden in Jeremiah’s day—cannot be produced by human effort. And right there the miracle turns: God Himself will restore His Presence to the sanctuary, not by unveiling a box, but by sending the Messiah.

On this reading, that is precisely why the Messiah arrives on the very first day of the seventieth week. Ministry begins where only God can act. In the “midst of the week”—three and a half years in—He is cut off, and yet, astonishingly, nothing in Daniel 9:24 is left unfinished. The six things God required are accomplished in Him; the foundation stones of forgiveness, righteousness, sealed vision, and anointed holiness are all laid. It means that even though the final three and a half years look “cut off” in history’s outward flow, both Israel and the Messiah have actually completed what the restoration period was designed to accomplish. The work Heaven assigned is finished; the stopwatch, however, still shows unspent time.

This is where the Great Jubilee frame clarifies the stakes. From Abraham forward, you see four great Jubilee spans; the fourth begins with the seventy-weeks clock. If that’s right, then the fourth Great Jubilee should end when the 490 years conclude—and with it, the grand arrival of the King in the fullness of His Kingdom. But Israel’s rejection of her Messiah arrests the count at the cross—486½ years. Three and a half years remain on the Jubilee clock. Until those remaining days are lived, the great cycle is not complete and the King does not return. Daniel points to this unresolved sliver; Revelation shows how God intends to finish it.

Between the cross and that completion is what Jesus called “the times of the Gentiles.” It is not God abandoning Israel; it is God gathering the nations while Israel, as a nation, walks in a long night. But the night has an appointed end. When the fullness of the Gentiles is complete, God will do for Israel what He did for Saul of Tarsus: open blind eyes in a single, blazing mercy. They will look upon the One they have pierced and recognize Him. From within Israel, a firstfruits company—144,000—will rise, marked and awakened, and they will do what Paul did after Damascus: preach the Word of God and the testimony of Jesus with unstoppable clarity. Their mandate is simple and world-embracing: three and a half years to summon the earth to a choice. Those years, at last, complete the fourth Great Jubilee. The unfinished half-week is lived; the cycle closes; the way is clear for the King to appear.

None of this divides humanity into rival camps. Labels fall away before the living God. There is one Lord, and there is one people, composed of Jew and Gentile together, all who bow to Him. And yet, inside that oneness, God still gives Israel a final, holy assignment. He began this story with Abraham’s family; He will vindicate His promises through that same family in the end—not as a contradiction to the Gospel, but as its consummation. When those last 1,260 days are spent in faithful witness, the world will have heard the call in a voice it cannot ignore, and the Messiah will return just as the prophets promised.

 

[Fred J]

1) the trib is 7 years according to Daniel.

But according to Jesus Christ in the New Testament, from 7 years of Great Tribulation is reduced to 3 1/2 years.

How can i discuss with wannabe teachers, you had your time and is out.

2) in the middle of it ( 3 .5 yrs) the ac desecrates the Holy of Holies.

Where is the scripture quote?

3) Rev 13 says all recieve the mark or die.

Scripture quote?

....all of which you call gibberish.

You can not for some reason even discuss it without character assassination.
Face it.
You need it changed
Sad for you. Mr name caller.

Juvenile and sad.

Apparently what youve replied from the beginning itself, 'gibberish'.

 

[Fred J]

QUOTE
"""And from the time of Christ to the 'first resurrection' towards the end of the Great Tribulation, will there be only '144,000'??""

The bible never says that.
I never said that.
You simply made it up.

Look, you have no idea who or what the 144,000 are.
THE BIBLE is so clear of who they are and what they are.

It would seem impossible to miss.
But you will never read WHAT IT SAYS.
You literally can not do it.

1 THE BIBLE Says they are ethnic Jews.
2) They are numbered so clearly that the Bible Made sure to number them two separate ways, so that nobody starts ascribing wildly, some meaning to them, rather than who they are. And how many they are and what they are.
3) THE bible LABELS THEM as "FIRSTFRUITS"
THEY ARE NOT ASCRIBED "First fruits" so that some doctrine can come along and overlap, "First fruits" as THE same thing as Christ.
They are not a type of Christ.
They are not Christ,
they are not the church.
They are not anything that you guys say they are. They are first fruit AND NUMBERED MESSIANIC JEWS, and that's all they are.
That's all the Bible says they are.
Once THE 144,000 POSTRIBBER train wreck is righted back on the tracks, we have to go back and COMPLETELY START OVER.
PUT THE BIBLE back on the table and leave EVERY COMPONENT concerning the 144,000 INTACT.
THEN STOP acribing wildly some meaning OUTSIDE OF who and what they ACTUALLY ARE.

That is a really good starting place.

Now you have the proper beginning.


WHEW...what a mess you guys make of a plain, vivid dynamic.

But you do so, so recklessly, and with no red flags.!!!!!!

Gibberish!

i replied to David and not you.

 

[rebuilder 454]

But according to Jesus Christ in the New Testament, from 7 years of Great Tribulation is reduced to 3 1/2 years.

How can i discuss with wannabe teachers, you had your time and is out.

Where is the scripture quote?

Scripture quote?

Apparently what youve replied from the beginning itself, 'gibberish'.

I quoted your word ( or some other postribber), you/they, used against my verses.
You/they, therefore, called God's word gibberish.

You are basically not debating but into snarky trolling.
Where is any investigation on your part?

Either get into the actual debate or go play somewhere.
I am not here to play games.

 

[rebuilder 454]

But according to Jesus Christ in the New Testament, from 7 years of Great Tribulation is reduced to 3 1/2 years.



Where is the scripture quote?

Scripture quote?

Apparently what youve replied from the beginning itself, 'gibberish'.

Ok.
So you are unlearned of Daniel.
You want to be taught the prophecy.
Ok I can help.
Dan 9
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


Quote
"How can i discuss with wannabe teachers, you had your time and is out."

Plain childish and goofy.
Like I said, either debate or carry that juvenile mess somewhere else.

 

[rebuilder 454]

For what it is worth... (this is a partial narrative in my commentary on Revelation (in progress)...


If you sit with Daniel long enough, a pattern begins to surface that feels both elegant and deliberate. The seventy-weeks prophecy is not just a timer; it is a roadmap for restoration. In the first sixty-nine weeks—483 years—God sees to it that everything Babylon tore down is raised again. The people come home. The Temple stands again. The sanctuary service resumes. Jerusalem’s streets and walls are rebuilt. Even what isn’t named outright is implied by the logic of restoration: Sabbatical cycles return to Israel’s calendar, Levitical ceremonies and sacrifices take their places once more. It is a full reversal—each piece restored in the mirror order of how it was taken away. Only one element is beyond human hands: the Ark of the Covenant. That first treasure to disappear—hidden in Jeremiah’s day—cannot be produced by human effort. And right there the miracle turns: God Himself will restore His Presence to the sanctuary, not by unveiling a box, but by sending the Messiah.

On this reading, that is precisely why the Messiah arrives on the very first day of the seventieth week. Ministry begins where only God can act. In the “midst of the week”—three and a half years in—He is cut off, and yet, astonishingly, nothing in Daniel 9:24 is left unfinished. The six things God required are accomplished in Him; the foundation stones of forgiveness, righteousness, sealed vision, and anointed holiness are all laid. It means that even though the final three and a half years look “cut off” in history’s outward flow, both Israel and the Messiah have actually completed what the restoration period was designed to accomplish. The work Heaven assigned is finished; the stopwatch, however, still shows unspent time.

This is where the Great Jubilee frame clarifies the stakes. From Abraham forward, you see four great Jubilee spans; the fourth begins with the seventy-weeks clock. If that’s right, then the fourth Great Jubilee should end when the 490 years conclude—and with it, the grand arrival of the King in the fullness of His Kingdom. But Israel’s rejection of her Messiah arrests the count at the cross—486½ years. Three and a half years remain on the Jubilee clock. Until those remaining days are lived, the great cycle is not complete and the King does not return. Daniel points to this unresolved sliver; Revelation shows how God intends to finish it.

Between the cross and that completion is what Jesus called “the times of the Gentiles.” It is not God abandoning Israel; it is God gathering the nations while Israel, as a nation, walks in a long night. But the night has an appointed end. When the fullness of the Gentiles is complete, God will do for Israel what He did for Saul of Tarsus: open blind eyes in a single, blazing mercy. They will look upon the One they have pierced and recognize Him. From within Israel, a firstfruits company—144,000—will rise, marked and awakened, and they will do what Paul did after Damascus: preach the Word of God and the testimony of Jesus with unstoppable clarity. Their mandate is simple and world-embracing: three and a half years to summon the earth to a choice. Those years, at last, complete the fourth Great Jubilee. The unfinished half-week is lived; the cycle closes; the way is clear for the King to appear.

None of this divides humanity into rival camps. Labels fall away before the living God. There is one Lord, and there is one people, composed of Jew and Gentile together, all who bow to Him. And yet, inside that oneness, God still gives Israel a final, holy assignment. He began this story with Abraham’s family; He will vindicate His promises through that same family in the end—not as a contradiction to the Gospel, but as its consummation. When those last 1,260 days are spent in faithful witness, the world will have heard the call in a voice it cannot ignore, and the Messiah will return just as the prophets promised.

The 144k are firstfruit Jews harvested before main Jewish harvest of rev 14:14.

They could be preachers as you have asserted, but I don't see that.
You have to factor in the firstfruits dynamic.

There are 2 harvests.
Church
Jews.

Both harvested under the banner of the gospel of christ.

Jesus the firstfruits of tge Gentile church harvest.( grain harvest)

The 144,000 ETHNIC JEWS Are the firstfruits of the Jews harvest, then main harvest Jews( fruit harvest) illustrated in Hosea with Gomer. ,
....and romans 9-11.

 

[rebuilder 454]

HalleluYAH my Brother in CHRIST

Where did your New Birth in Christ Originate from = Heaven or Earth?

What are you getting at?
I know who my redeemer is.