Reviving Biblical Christianity (The Way) Part 1

[Lizbeth]

This is false. Jesus came to fulfill the law. And anyone who transgresses the law is condemned. You don't understand either righteousness or holiness....and you are too stubborn to be taught.

Paul says that neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but keeping the commandments....which ones? The righteousness laws. Read the bible without the indoctrination...using a critical mind...without self-interest.

Jesus is the Saviour of the whole world, especially them that believe. Jesus sacrificed Himself for our sins AND also the sins of the world.

The curse of the law was that there was no way out of our predicament until Christ came to give us the power over sin so we could follow Him is HIS holiness...as overcomers just like Him. Anything less is a decoy gospel.

Like Abraham our faith in Christ is credited/counted/reckoned to us as righteousness.

Rom 3:27-28
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith.
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

Now of course that doesn't mean we may abuse this grace in which we stand and use it as a license to sin., because God is not mocked. He expects sincerity in our pursuit of righteousness and His kingdom, and in the running of our race.

I have concluded that it is error when someone has been gifted with an experience in the Lord and then places that as an expectation and requirement upon all believers. We all may "taste the powers of the world to come" as the Spirit wills....there are different gifts and experiences for different people at different times for different reasons and purposes in God.

 

[Lizbeth]

You mean those who claim to be as righteous as God?

The righteousness of God can only be imputed to One Person.....God.

The true question is where is the fear of God in modern religionists? Where is wisdom and humility? All these are thrown out for religious certainty. And if that certainty is misplaced, there is nothing but emptiness...no righteousness at all.

We only "claim" to be counted righteous.....and I think it takes humility to know our need of this grace. But our new man is every bit as righteous and holy as God/Christ, since it has been created in His image.

 

[amigo de christo]

Can't get past that you are saying believers are under the old covenant (Law). And that there are those who would agree with that. Nobody who is under the Law knows or has Christ, so they are not Christians. Christian believers (Jew and Gentile) are under the new covenant, not the Law:


Jer 31:31-34

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


When we receive Christ we "know" Him for ourselves, not just know "about" Him, because we are reconciled to Him, joined with Him by the Spirit, and He is revealed to our spirit/heart. Therefore anyone who has received Christ is under the new covenant, not under the Law. Jews under the Law (old covenant) need to receive Christ to be saved, and when they do they are no longer under the old but under the new covenant. And Gentiles who receive Christ are not entering the old covenant (Law) but the new covenant. The sprinkling of the blood of the new covenant applies to all who have received Christ, His Spirit, and are under grace, not Law. Anyone who reverts to the Law (old covenant) is said to have "fallen from grace" as per Galations.

The Jews who were continuing to seek to establish their own righteousness were missing the new covenant, which is about submitting to (receiving) the righteousness of God. The new man that we who know Christ have all received is righteous....it is a matter of putting him on as it were, and walking in and abiding in Him.....yielding to the Spirit of Christ within which we have received.


Rom 3:21

But now THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD WITHOUT THE LAW is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Even the righteousness of God WHICH IS BY FAITH UNTO ALL AND UPON ALL THEM THAT BELIEVE: for there is no difference:

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;


Rom 10:1-10

Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to ESTABLISH THEIR OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

For Christ is THE END OF THE LAW for righteousness TO EVERYONE THAT BELIEVETH.

For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

But THE RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS OF FAITH speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)

Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, THE WORD OF FAITH, which we preach;

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

For WITH THE HEART MAN BELIEVETH UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


These scriptures are talking about righteousness......and they simply don't agree with what you appear to be saying about it, unless you would like to clarify anything.

keep pointing to JESUS sister . keep up the good work .

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Find in the bible, beyond the imagination, where holiness is attributed (imputed) to us! It's not there because it is impossible. People don't have their own holiness. You will never find such false doctrine outside the indoctrination of decoy establishments. And the righteousness that is attributed to us is a human righteousness...since it is impossible that God finds a man as righteous as He is.

To begin, we need to define these terms.
God is Holy (set apart), distinct from creation and absent of sin or evil.
Holiness for us is being in Christ. God shares with us His attributes, love, justice, and power. We are in a sense, baptized into holiness.
So His elect are made holy, separated for salvation and divine purpose.
We are set apart for this spiritual journey that He authors.
While believers are technically "sanctified" (made holy) at conversion, it is also a lifelong, progressive process of becoming more like Christ.
It is primarily a work of God (through the Holy Spirit) in the life of a believer. And we do cooperate with His plan.
Three Phases of HOLINESS
1. justification ( positional holiness)
2. maturity (practical and progressive holiness)
3. glorification (our ultimate complete holiness)

Holiness is depicted in Scripture as both a position given by God (imputed righteousness) and a progressive work of the Holy Spirit in the elect.

1 Corinthians 1:30
But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption—
>Christ is our sanctification<

2 Corinthians 5:21
For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
>made the righteousness of God<
Philippians 1:6
being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ
>God completes the work He began <

1 Corinthians 6:11
And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
>sanctified and made holy<

1 Thessalonians 5:23-24: "Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely... He who calls you is faithful; he will surely do it".

Philippians 2:13: "...for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure".

1 Thessalonians 4:7: "For God has not called us for impurity, but in holiness".
>Being in Christ and being holy<

Romans 4:6
just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works.
>Righteousness is imputed<

You are not understanding the parable of the talents...

Sure, it is expected of us to be obedient, be willing to cooperate, love one another. And yes, some do more than others. We respond to His will ... sometimes grudgingly. Listen it is common knowledge that 20 percent of the Church does most, gives most. "The workers are few" is just a statement of fact. But it all pans out - His perfect plan gets done _ on time.

You are simply pitting a gift against proper attitude and behaviour. You are letting yourself become spoiled by the idea of grace.

I always thought the proper attitude was to give the Lord all the credit. Otherwise, pride kicks in with a faith + plus works salvation. You delve into the Law and what are we warned about in 2 Cor. 3:15? The veil falls back over our eyes, blinding us. Read the New Covenant, it's lifted. You trying to keep one foot in the Old and one in the New?

Few want to take responsibility for their own evil and repent before God. Instead the vast majority justify themselves and sit smugly as they condemn the righteous.

That's judgmental. If we don't do what Jesus said, then we really don't believe him. Spiritual maturity comes over time. We learn about sin and eventually look in the mirror and recognize in ourselves and hate. We change. God changes us. The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin ... of course that's if you have a relationship with Him, Who resides in our temples.

 

[marks]

I always thought the proper attitude was to give the Lord all the credit. Otherwise, pride kicks in with a faith + plus works salvation. You delve into the Law and what are we warned about in 2 Cor. 3:15? The veil falls back over our eyes, blinding us. Read the New Covenant, it's lifted. You trying to keep one foot in the Old and one in the New?

I heard something interesting on the radio today. To the one who is looking to their own works to improve their standing with God, they will find that "success" goes to the head in pride, and failure goes to the heart in discouragement.

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

To begin, we need to define these terms.
God is Holy (set apart), distinct from creation and absent of sin or evil.

Of course. But the idea of being set apart is an OT standard for holiness, for men...not God. God is OTHER. He is unique.

A spoon that was used in temple sacrifices for ONLY that use was seen as holy, under temple holiness. In actual fact the spoon remained an inanimate object....and was not "holy" as God is.

NT holiness is based in a divine life being superimposed on people as a COVERING anointing.

Holiness for us is being in Christ.

Exactly. In Him we partake of His holiness. His love and power....and life.

God shares with us His attributes, love, justice, and power

That is false. Only God has His attributes. The holiness remains His alone. God doesn't sin. We are just vessels to be filled with God's Spirit and covered by His anointing power.

. We are in a sense, baptized into holiness.

That is true for the baptism in the Spirit.

So His elect are made holy, separated for salvation and divine purpose.
We are set apart for this spiritual journey that He authors.

Yes, but these are 2 separate things. We are being tried and tested in righteousness for holiness purposes.

While believers are technically "sanctified" (made holy) at conversion, it is also a lifelong, progressive process of becoming more like Christ.

This is false of course. There is no partial holiness. Clerics invented a progressive holiness scheme because they understand neither holiness nor righteousness. The only thing that is progressive is RIGHTEOUSNESS....not holiness. Holiness is digital....either you are or you are not. If you are walking in holiness then you don't sin. In Christ is NO sin.

Maturity takes time....but the purity of a cleansing by God's anointing is in the blink of an eye. Sanctification is immediate for the one that enters INTO Christ. Holiness is about location location location.
The rest of this is just more departure from the truth...too many things to correct. You need to start over if you want to actually find what the gospel is about.

 

[Episkopos]

We only "claim" to be counted righteous.....and I think it takes humility to know our need of this grace. But our new man is every bit as righteous and holy as God/Christ, since it has been created in His image.

You just can't learn anything. Putting on the New Man is Christ not us. We are to put on Christ....who is the New Man...

The New Man Paul is referring to is the divine template of Christ that saints are being molded into. This is WAY above the pay grade of religious pretenders...who choose all the best sounding verses for themselves to conveniently ignore the verses that actually pertain to them and their antics.

This is why modern believers have no humility or fear of the Lord. They make outlandish claims of being as holy as God...etc. It is obvious foolishness. All from a self-interested reading of the bible where one can wish upon a star and avoid any kind of repentance from sin.

 

[Episkopos]

Like Abraham our faith in Christ is credited/counted/reckoned to us as righteousness.

Of course. Abraham's faith is just as important as his works. But this is not the justification of Christ. It just follows the same biblical pattern...hence Paul's usage of Abraham as a foreshadow of God attributing righteousness by faith.

But in Christ the justification into Him translates a person into the kingdom realm of the Spirit. That's how you know you have been justified IN Christ. It is a higher justification that brings us to Zion where God dwells. And the door is Christ. We enter into God's divine presence through Him who reconciles us to the Father.

The rest is fiction...to name and claim from an imaginary acceptance by God based on religious dogma.

Where the Spirit is there is POWER from heaven to walk as Jesus walked....to overcome as He did. Read the bible...start over.

Rom 3:27-28
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith.
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

This is to show that temple holiness is done away with...the law of Moses. There is a perfected way for people now.

 

[Episkopos]

The naivete and foolishness of modern religious speculators who claim to be as righteous and holy as God have failed to understand who the author is of such heresies....the devil, who said "I will be as the Most High".

A tree is known of its fruit.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

A spoon that was used in temple sacrifices for ONLY that use was seen as holy, under temple holiness. In actual fact the spoon remained an inanimate object....and was not "holy" as God is.

Yes, it is set apart for a purpose. We get the word holiday from Holy. It is a special day set apart.

NT holiness is based in a divine life being superimposed on people as a COVERING anointing.

That's a pretty good way of putting it. Another word is imputed. But really super imposed is different.

• Imputed means to attribute, ascribe, or assign something to someone (e.g., "imputed income," "imputed knowledge"). It often implies estimating a value or assigning blame/responsibility.
• Superimposed means to place or lay one thing over or above something else. It is used to describe placing an image over another or layering items.

That is false. Only God has His attributes. The holiness remains His alone.

When we are in Christ, the Spirit dwells in us. The fruit of the Spirit: love, joy, peace, forbearance (patience), kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. These are some of God's attributes. Other spiritual gifts given like healing, gift if prophecy, gift of knowledge, etc are attributes as well. Spiritually, we are set apart, in Christ, but still, we have the flesh until death. Then we will be completely, wholly set apart. Til then, our spirit wars against the flesh.

There is no partial holiness. Clerics invented a progressive holiness scheme because they understand neither holiness nor righteousness.

I did not say partial holiness. Our spirit has been purified, but our soul operates in two realms. Remember body, soul, spirit. The spirit and soul are not the same; if they were the word, sharper than a two-edged sword could not divide them. Spiritual growth is growth is in the fruit of the Spirit. It's progressive, gradual. Our souls ( mind, will, emotions, personality) are being transformed, character, how we live in this sinful world. We slowly become Christ-like outwardly. So we control and stop these fleshly desires with the help of our Helper.
This is all done by the Author, Who writes our story.

 

[Lizbeth]

Of course. Abraham's faith is just as important as his works. But this is not the justification of Christ. It just follows the same biblical pattern...hence Paul's usage of Abraham as a foreshadow of God attributing righteousness by faith.

But in Christ the justification into Him translates a person into the kingdom realm of the Spirit. That's how you know you have been justified IN Christ. It is a higher justification that brings us to Zion where God dwells. And the door is Christ. We enter into God's divine presence through Him who reconciles us to the Father.

The rest is fiction...to name and claim from an imaginary acceptance by God based on religious dogma.

Where the Spirit is there is POWER from heaven to walk as Jesus walked....to overcome as He did. Read the bible...start over.


This is to show that temple holiness is done away with...the law of Moses. There is a perfected way for people now.

I don't know what you aren't getting about being justified by faith Epi. It's really not that hard. That is the foundation from which, or out of which, the rest of the building springs up. Without that foundation "perfection" is not possible.

 

[Lizbeth]

You just can't learn anything. Putting on the New Man is Christ not us. We are to put on Christ....who is the New Man...

The New Man Paul is referring to is the divine template of Christ that saints are being molded into. This is WAY above the pay grade of religious pretenders...who choose all the best sounding verses for themselves to conveniently ignore the verses that actually pertain to them and their antics.

This is why modern believers have no humility or fear of the Lord. They make outlandish claims of being as holy as God...etc. It is obvious foolishness. All from a self-interested reading of the bible where one can wish upon a star and avoid any kind of repentance from sin.

Oh ye quibbler about words. I think it's safe to reckon the new man is ours since it was given to us and we have "become" a new creature thereby. And it is created after the image of He who created it. Of course it is not of our own, that no one may boast. What do we have that we didn't receive (from God)?

 

[Lizbeth]

keep pointing to JESUS sister . keep up the good work .

Praise the Lord brother....bless you.

 

[Episkopos]

NT holiness is based in a divine life being superimposed on people as a COVERING anointing.

"That's pretty good way if putting it. Another worded is imputed."


Modern religionists don't understand what "imputed" means and therefore fully misread the bible. A fictional meaning is necessary because those same inventors of word meanings don't understand what righteousness or holiness are. So with that same lack of understanding these pretenders invent fables and "positional" doctrines that are in the realm of make-believe....literally.

Modern religionists can't put the word "imputed" into a sentence properly...without saying a total fiction.

To impute means that something is coming FROM the source as an attribute. The sound of an engine is imputed to the engine. If some religion claims that the sound of an engine can be falsely imputed to ..say...a tree... I think this will gain many followers....as many love to pretend. The sound of an engine can never be imputed to a tree, (If any here can understand that....they would then be able to be untangled from iniquity). But many here don't see the problem with imputing the sound of an engine to a tree.

I know I'm speaking way beyond the comprehension of many here....but my statement was that holiness is a covering...but that covering is imputed to God. The evidence of that is it is called....the holiness of God. God's holiness (or His righteousness) cannot be imputed to people the same way that the sound of an engine cannot be imputed to a tree.

If people don't understand something as simple and basic as this...they need to start over again...perhaps take some basic English courses...since they have become far worse than they were before.

God imputed righteousness to Abraham because God noticed righteousness coming FROM Abraham. It was the righteousness of Abraham...not God.

How can people directly contradict God then claim to be as righteous as He is. I have no idea???? For those who are slow to read and understand I will post a simple OT attestation to the existence of personal righteousness... If there are ANY honest readers here...give out a shout! :)


Ez. 14:14 Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord God.

v20 Though Noah, Daniel, and Job were in it, as I live, saith the Lord God, they shall deliver neither son nor daughter; they shall but deliver their own souls by their righteousness.

Since there is little to no honesty in those who have been indoctrinated, I expect this will be ignored as usual. Stay indoctrinated. Please yourselves.

People can't say they believe God or follow the bible (or Christ) and then throw out and contradict what God says.... only a fully deceived and dishonest person can do that...as evidenced here.

 

[amigo de christo]

Oh ye quibbler about words. I think it's safe to reckon the new man is ours since it was given to us and we have "become" a new creature thereby. And it is created after the image of He who created it. Of course it is not of our own, that no one may boast. What do we have that we didn't receive (from God)?

Sister his strategy is not new .
Look at what paul wrote long ago .
They agree not to the wholesome words , even the words of our Lord.
BUT always striving about words and etc . THERE IS NOTHING NEW under the sun .
Ever learning but unable to come to the truth .
Always striving over words by which to justify a lie , an error .
ALways this is done sister .
They dont agree with the wholesome words of Christ and etc
THEY always strive over words , over sematics , over exgegis , or whaterver .
but if one examines their methods and their words
THEY had seen it was but a way and a means TO MAKE VOID something CHRIST said
to GO around the simple truth . its like a clever school kid
that is doing anything and everyething to explain to his papa WHY he didnt do or why he did do
as He did . They just use highly clever spun words and decepttoins to simply LIE .

 

[amigo de christo]

Praise the Lord brother....bless you.

an example of this is
Lets say a dad tells his son he always wants him to be happy . That he loves him .
Then later he tells his son , hey son i want you to take out the trash b efore i get home from work .
If not you will be punished .
But along cometh the striver of words
and he sees the boy . And he says Did you dad tell you that you must take out the trash .
And the child says , YES and that if i do not i shall be punished .
To which the st river of words then uses this , Has not your dad told you he wants you to be happy .
TO which the child says , WHY yes HE has told me that . to which the s triver of words
says DOES taking out the trash make YOU happy . To which the boy says no .
THEN SURELY YE SHALL NOT BE PUNISHED says the striver of words , FOR YOU dad just wants you happy .
THAT IS EXACTLY What THEY DO WITH DOCTRINE
THEY BEND it twist it and mold it right into a lie .

 

[Marvelloustime]

an example of this is
Lets say a dad tells his son he always wants him to be happy . That he loves him .
Then later he tells his son , hey son i want you to take out the trash b efore i get home from work .
If not you will be punished .
But along cometh the striver of words
and he sees the boy . And he says Did you dad tell you that you must take out the trash .
And the child says , YES and that if i do not i shall be punished .
To which the st river of words then uses this , Has not your dad told you he wants you to be happy .
TO which the child says , WHY yes HE has told me that . to which the s triver of words
says DOES taking out the trash make YOU happy . To which the boy says no .
THEN SURELY YE SHALL NOT BE PUNISHED says the striver of words , FOR YOU dad just wants you happy .
THAT IS EXACTLY What THEY DO WITH DOCTRINE
THEY BEND it twist it and mold it right into a lie .

@amigo de christo

 

[amigo de christo]

Praise the Lord brother....bless you.

surely they shall not perish , says the twister of words , is it not written that JESUS is the savoir of the world ..........
ONLY THEY SURE SEEM TO FORGET
That SAVOIR OF THE WORLD Warned of the dire NEED TO BELIEVE ON HIM , THE SAVOIR OF THE WORLD , or perish .
Epi and others lie to us sister .
WE beleive JESUS not men . stick to that one true gopsel
by which we were saved , IF WE KEEP IN MEMORY
lest , like many who had b eleived in vain and fall for a whores love that saves none .
STICK to the words ,the wholesome words of Christ and continue To
POINT to HIM dear sister . march onwards in the LORD . let no man take thy crown . false gosples save n one .
JESUS saves . And to be saved ONE MUST BELIEVE ON HIM .

 

[Marvelloustime]

Sister his strategy is not new .
Look at what paul wrote long ago .
They agree not to the wholesome words , even the words of our Lord.
BUT always striving about words and etc . THERE IS NOTHING NEW under the sun .
Ever learning but unable to come to the truth .
Always striving over words by which to justify a lie , an error .
ALways this is done sister .
They dont agree with the wholesome words of Christ and etc
THEY always strive over words , over sematics , over exgegis , or whaterver .
but if one examines their methods and their words
THEY had seen it was but a way and a means TO MAKE VOID something CHRIST said
to GO around the simple truth . its like a clever school kid
that is doing anything and everyething to explain to his papa WHY he didnt do or why he did do
as He did . They just use highly clever spun words and decepttoins to simply LIE .

@amigo de christo

 

[Marvelloustime]

surely they shall not perish , says the twister of words , is it not written that JESUS is the savoir of the world ..........
ONLY THEY SURE SEEM TO FORGET
That SAVOIR OF THE WORLD Warned of the dire NEED TO BELIEVE ON HIM , THE SAVOIR OF THE WORLD , or perish .
Epi and others lie to us sister .
WE beleive JESUS not men . stick to that one true gopsel
by which we were saved , IF WE KEEP IN MEMORY
lest , like many who had b eleived in vain and fall for a whores love that saves none .
STICK to the words ,the wholesome words of Christ and continue To
POINT to HIM dear sister . march onwards in the LORD . let no man take thy crown . false gosples save n one .
JESUS saves . And to be saved ONE MUST BELIEVE ON HIM .

@amigo de christo